I would rather their marriage succeeded or failed on its own. WITHOUT the interference of a supposedly 'caring' person. It is not the death of the marriage. I fully believe that some marriages should not continue. However, to have someone step in and HELP IT along by making the situation so much 'GREENER' is what I cannot tolerate.

THAT is my problem with what you have done and are doing. And just because your heart is shallow enough to be OK with betrayal doesn't mean that the scars on a more in depth and moral person's heart will heal any better. My purpose for this analogy is NOT that of a physical disablement. The disability of the soul... of the mind... of the character is SO much more debilitating. Sure, they can eat, drink, and smile. But the depth of the injury psychologically is immense. Just because your shallow eyes cannot see the scars doesn't make them any less apparent and debilitating. I think that the fact that his wife is having another person in her life has made this so much easier for you to be OK with. Simply stated is the fact that if everyone involved is so shallow and immoral, then it really doesn't affect anyone at all... does it. No, I forgot... there are children involved. But we won't worry about how they will be brought up. Because 'WE ARE SO MUCH HAPPIER"

Some marriages should cease, I am sure. If they both were wanting the divorce, then why not just get it? Why run off and screw around? Even if just HE wanted it, why not just get it done, then move on? It isn't really that hard to do. Not nearly hard enough in my opinion. But hmmmmmm, here is another woman willing to sleep with me TODAY... I don't have to wait a couple months. I might be wanting out, so since I have decided that, it is really over and I am free of my vows, morals, and responsibility to my family. God just wants me to be happy. He wouldn't want me sad.

Had you the decency to have kept out of this little girl's life until her parents were actually done, I would have no problem with your actions. But you chose instead to hasten the death... perhaps more appropriately deliver the fatal dose of death. Perhaps they are happier. Perhaps... maybe this will be better than what would have happened. But look at how you went about it. There was NO CHANCE with your adultery and interference. Perhaps they could have overcome their problems... perhaps not. BUT THERE WAS NO CHANCE with you in the picture. And what did you get out of it? Perhaps a few months more sex... perhaps a few months more attention. To the detriment of all involved... most dearly the people that look at you as someone they should trust and aspire to.

I also wonder what your children have learned. Are they living with you and this other man? You have taught them twice now that marriage is only as good as a person decides it to be. And that there is absolutely no sanctity to a vow. Even if that vow should be amicably withdrawn, you have shown them that rather than wait, you can just do whatever you should choose. Do you ever think about the lessons you are teaching your OWN children? Do what you want, regardless of convention... regardless of morals... regardless of trust... regardless of right. Remember this when your own children are divorcing. Remember the precedent you have shown them with your behavior. Remember this when your daughter's husband leaves her and her children to live with another woman because "We just aren't happy" or "because I am happier now" or because "She just makes me so happy".

Remember these lessons you are teaching your children. You have taught them this is the way that things should be done. Remember this when your son leaves his children to be with another woman. Remember this when your daughter starts seeing a married man because "his wife just doesn't appreciate him." Remember your loving education when your current man wakes up and realizes what an idiot he has been. And then looks at the type of person who would do what you have done and say "God, I was stupid, but you are equally stupid. And I want nothing to do with you."

It takes people of your character to be with other people of your character. It takes people with your sense of morals and dignity to be able to tolerate a cheating adulterer. It takes people like you to be able to try to rationalize a situation all the while not even believing what you are saying, but unable to change because that would be saying what you did was wrong. Yes, the world is filled with the low moral character that seems so pervasive in your posts. I guess it will be filled more so when your three children and his children grow up. Because out of 3 people have come an additional 4 at least with no chance but to have you as their role models. Yes, the cheating father will teach his boys what 'men' are like. The cheating mother and adulterous other woman will be the role models for the girls... lovely women that they are to become with such classic character to follow.

There just isn't really anything more to say than "The fruit doesn't fall far from the tree." Remember all this when you are listening to the same thing happening with all the children you have touched.

I might be mistaken, but I thought that I read in another post that you have children of your own... perhaps I was mistaken. But if so... do they live with you and this other man? And if not... WHY NOT?...

The reason I am so vehement about this is because my wayward wife... She actually said, and one of the few things I think she said that I believe... She said after our reconciliation attempt... "If we could have only been this good together BEFORE." Before meaning, before she became involved with these other guys. You see, she was unhappy with our marriage, I fully understand, I was not happy with it, but I still loved her, and didn't have the same problems that she was feeling. So she went looking elsewhere. When I found out about it, I did everything to help make things better. But she had ALREADY stepped out, and could never see coming back. Even though she said she never thought she "could never be so happy." HER WORDS... She 'never thought I could make her so happy.' HER WORDS... 'You are 100% better..." Her words. I was not a peach... I worked to much and didn't pay enough attention to her. I recognize that and will live with my parts of our marriages demise forever. However, by her cheating... even when we had the opportunity to change things... it was too late. She couldn't live with the guilt nor the thought of the 'momentary excitement' she felt when with the other guys. So she left... she left... would it have happened anyway... Perhaps. But I KNOW that we could have had a better chance had she not already screwed or became involved with a whole stable of men before hand.

<small>[ June 21, 2003, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: Formerly Confused ]</small>

Formerly Confused,

Ever hear of fighting a losing battle? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Sometimes you can't break through another person's perceived reality... tewjtm seems pretty entrenched in rationalizing everything she has done/is doing...

tewjtm,
Just curious, you made mention of 'filling out and filing a motion' on behalf of your 'boyfriend'... Any chance you are a divorce attorney? His divorce attorney?... Just curious...

SoTired...excellent point...

tewjtm...
Can't you accept that sometimes 2 people are not meant to be? Would you rather they have suffered for 6 years or so then split up?

I'm not going to take the time to respond to everything..I'll just stick with this since it SO summarizes the WS/OP textbook. As a matter of fact, NO, I cannot accept that 2 people are not meant to be. To use the term "meant to be" implies that people are not in control of their own lives, that some "fate" or "destiny" is in control of our lives. If someone suffers for 6 years in a marraige, it is because one or both partners is not working to repair whatever is making the other partner miserable. My W and I are not together still because we were "meant to be", there is simply no such thing as "meant to be". There is however, choose to be. I chose to forgive my W for her A's. Just as she chose to forgive me for the revenge affair I engaged in after I found out about OM#1. The fact of the matter is, M or any other seriouse relationship is hard work, and if it is not working then it means one of the spouses/partners is not pulling their weight. They guilty spouse is like that person at work (you all know what I'm talking about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) that puches the clock, then f's off for 8 or so hours while expecting that everyone else will pull the extra slack. I am a christian, yet I refuse to fall into the cliche "God has a perfect mate for everyone". Simply not true. That would mean that the single greatest gift he has given us (aside from giving his son of course), the gift of FREE-WILL, is not applicable because by that definition he would already have our mate chosen. Where's the choice?? There is a reason the "meant to be" cliche is used so often by WS's, but it has nothing to do with people being "meant to be". People stay married or divorce because they choose to. They either choose to do the work involved and stay married, or they take the easy way out and divorce. Obviously there are exceptions to this, mostly when some form of abuse is involved, either physical, emotional, or some form of substance abuse. As for your example of people getting drunk and finding out they can't stand eachother after two months...well that's what you get for acting stupid quite frankly. And BTW, as far as I know, that only happens on NBC <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I've been very, VERY drunk several times in my life (ok more than several <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) but I have NEVER had the inclination to go get married <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I would post more but I'm already irritated beyond beliefe.....maybe more later.

BTW, to icedancer, best of luck in your situation, I have to admit I don't know your story. I just jumped over from ALS's thread in GQII. But yes there is a website for people like that.

here it is..warning to all BS's and probably some WS's...reading this WILL hurt. So if you don't want to cry/rock-bottom your PC..don't click the link!!!!

http://philanderers.com/

MTD

Formerly Confused,
Well I guess it is just best for you and I to disagree on some things.

What amazes me here at MB are that people are so quick to point out "what will the children learn" from the WS/OP in the cases where these 2 do end up together. It is naturally presumed the child will suffer and be morally flawed for life. Yet, many marriages here at MB have the WS coming and going as he pleases in the M. The BS is crying upset etc. What do these kids learn?

Besides, even though FMM and I have only lived together 16 months he has been coming over, doing things with the kids, etc. for over 2 years now. They do not even know he was ever married. Nor do they know I was the OW.

Yes, my kids live w/ FMM and I. I have always retained full physical and legal custody of my children. AND I have never had need to pursue any legal visitation arrangements as I recognize the importance of a child having access to BOTH parents.

So Tired,
No, I am not an attorney - yet. Although I have completed my BS, took the LSAT, and actually been accepted to a pvt law school in Ga. I knew I couldn't attend at that institution (too costly) I really just applied to see if I could get in. I do work PT for a local atty reviewing transcripts for errors. Since I work for him I also am able to file his motions etc. as he has a disability that makes it difficult for him to get in and out of the courthouse. I prepare the motions, he signs off on them, and he reprrsents FMM in Court for free if he needs help(this is included in my salary as I only charge $10.00 an hour for the transcript/appeal work - as I can do it at the same time as I do pvt security as I take my laptop w/ me).

Besides, that would be unethical. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 23, 2003, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

FC,
P.S. You stated:
You have taught them twice now that marriage is only as good as a person decides it to be

How have I done that?

I was married one time. My H thoroughly misrepresented himself and became abusive. I got out. They do not even know FMM was married. He has been in their lives for a while now.