Gregg,

I believe your Father in heaven is proud of the way you are handling things with your wife.

Keep reading your other books. The book from restore taught me so much about God's word. It sounds like it is teaching you also.

Just remember, be ready she could become more distant for a while. It will be up and down for awhile. Try not to expect too much too soon and at the same time live with a spirit of expecting a miracle at anytime.

Remember that sudden fear that can overcome us if it seems like God is not moving. He is there on the other side of the mountain.

I am so glad you are spending time together.

gentle

Greg,

How wonderful! Sorry, I'm kinda coming into this post in the middle...I didn't read all the comments but read your last one about your wife. You know, about her wedding ring... she still has it on!! Even if it's on the other finger, it's still on. She hasn't taken it off.

I think what Gentle said is great and I think your wife sounds softened (as you've been praying for her to be). I agree about staying in your Restore book and also in the Bible and in prayer too.

Your wife's heart sounds open still to you. Most people don't really want divorce but have convinced themselves that the other person won't change and that it's the "only way." That is usually why they divorce. But, remember... God made you two one flesh and there is a bond there that HE created and what He creates is one powerful thing!!

I hope and pray that the Sunday picnic is just a beautiful, wonderful time in which your wife's heart softens even more!

God bless!

p.s. your advice to Sally was beautiful... truly sounds like it is from a genuinely broken, humble heart after God.

Thanks Gentle and LoveMyEx:

Your support means a lot to me.

I just keep thinking that even if her heart is softening, then that doesn't necessarily mean in a way towards our marriage. I get hung up sometimes that she will only want to be my friend and nothing more.

I just don't know if I should ever bring up our marriage again with her. I feel like I should never bring up our marriage unless she does, which she never has in the past month.

Gentle, I'm wondering if this is what you have been going through not knowing if you will have your husband back, instead of just a good friend.

Gregg

GREGG C,
I think you are doing AWESOME!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> PERFECT!!
I really really feel in my heart that her heart is softening.
It reminded me so much of what happened with my W it brought tears to my eyes....!!

I think/KNOW that you guys have to become friends again (although I don't know your situation I just came back to the board recently)

BUT... I don't remember any LONG hugs and slow dancing with MY friends!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I can tell you for sure you're right in not bringing up your Marriage... let her bring it up and it will be less uncomfortable for her.....

GOOD LUCK ON SUNDAY... I'll be praying for you guys!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

GOOD LUCK AND PRAYERS... FRANK

P.S. and...ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE WITH GOD!!! (look at my story below!!)

Thanks, Frank:

I appreciate your feedback and even most importantly, your prayers!!!!

Gregg

Greg,

Here are some verses for you. I know that in my journey, doubt, fear, and the occassional anger or unforgivenss OFTEN creeps in and I waver. I have to remind myself about the Bible saying that we are not to be doubleminded... that we won't receive anything (in response to prayers) when we are. But, it's not easy. I often think to myself, "I am crazy for believing in reconciliation!" but then God will remind me of many things through other people, through his Word, etc.

Anyways, some verses:

"Ah Sovereign God, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you... I am the Lord, the God of all mankind, is anything too hard for me?" Jer. 32:17,27

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowldege him, and he will make your paths straight." Prov. 3:5-6

"Be still and know that I am God..." Psalm 46:10

"We do not know what to do, but our eyes are upon you." 2 Chron. 20:12

"Call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and unsearchable things you do not know." Jer. 33:3

Moses answered the people: "Do not be afraid. Stand firm and you will see the deliverance the Lord will bring you today... The Lord will fight for you; you need only to be still." Exodus 14:13-14

Thanks for the versus Lovemyex!!

The more I read of God's word the more peace I find.

Gregg

Well, I think it was a pretty good day at our picnic.

It started out by my calling her to propose a specific time to leave for the picnic (since it was from noon to 4 pm.) Before then, I had asked her if it was ok to borrow her truck to go get my son a new bed for his room at my house, then after I returned we would leave for my company picnic.

Got back then we drove together (the three of us, my son myself and W) and arrived about 2ish. We got some food, then played some of the games that they had there. We all had a lot of fun. I even got a few chances to walk with my arm around my wife briefly. I was hoping maybe she would show interest in holding my hand (but she didn't) I did not try to initiate any hand-holding. One time after falling down in one of the competitions that we had, she held out her hand for me to help her up (which I of course did) Also there was another opportunity where she had to step down from somewhere, and she took my hand as I held it out to help her down.

Anyway as we were finally leaving the picnic, she thanked me for letting her come, because she said she always "likes going to these things". After we drove home to her house we pulled into the driveway (I had driven my car) and she said I at least have to come in long enough to get my souvenirs (that she had gotten me from her family trip.) So I went in and my son played outside with a friend of his in the neighborhood. We talked a little bit about music and light things. She played a song for me and as it was playing I said I should probably get going. I didn't want to hold her up. (She was going to go somewhere in about 15 minutes-I didn't ask her what or where.) As the music was still going we gave each other a long hug and I rocked her a little to the music. When we started to release each other she pulled back just enough to be able to look into my eyes and continue talking about something. I still had my hands around her waist, but she made no attempt to pull away, and continued to look closely into my eyes as we talked for about 30 more seconds.

I told her, "Thanks for being so nice to me." Then she said, "You're welcome. Thanks for being so good to me lately." I told her, "You're welcome. I enjoy being good to you more than anything, except God."

Then I left as she said she would see me at church tomorrow. She said she was going to start singing with the worship team up in front of the congregation starting next week (what I have been doing-she was doing it until about 9 months ago too). I thought this would be good, yet another opportunity for positive interactions.

Anyway, I know that was good, but did I push too hard? I thought that she would at least not be looking me in the eyes the whole time at the picnic, as well as the whole time right after our hug, as we were a few inches apart.

Gregg

Greg, it sounds like it was a good day. Baby steps, right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> From your description, it does not sound like you are pushing too hard. I got the impression of you being more along the lines of gentlemanly. The fact that she's thanking you,hugging you, looking in your eyes, and even just going to the picnic with you period is wonderful. Honestly, divorce is normally done by the person who believes it is "hopeless" and that the other person is never going to change. It sounds to me like she is seeing change in you. Keep making it a matter of prayer and fasting. It's wonderful that she is going to church and rejoining the choir, because she will be hearing God's Word, singing God's Word, and worshipping. God will speak to her and work in her heart through that- she will be in His presence. I will be praying for you.

Thanks, LoveMyEx,

It means a lot to me to know that you will be praying for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Went to church today. I was hoping that I would see signs of W showing closeness to me. I sat by her for a few minutes, then had to go up before the congregation for about 1/2 of service to sing with our worship team.

She was doing a lot of praying I could tell throughout church. For the last half we all returned to our seats, and I sat back down between my son and my wife. There were a few smiles, and I did comfort her once by briefly resting my hand on her leg to which she said. "Thanks."

Then at the end of the service, I told her that I would like to come over and do laundry in the next couple of days if that is ok. She said "That's fine. Just let me know." Then I told her goodbye as my son and I were getting up. No hug or anything <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Should I have initiated a hug? (I have usually waited for her to initiate a hug first before trying to hug her. I have always wanted to make sure that she wanted a hug first.)

That's all that that transpired.

Should I just let her make the next move, and not do anything but pray?

Actually. I am editing this message, since I decided to give her a call and just tell her that I was concerned about her being sad. I called her and left message stating that I was worried about her being sad, but wasn't sure if I should say anything. She called back a few minutes later and said that she was just feeling all beat up about proplems at work and with her mom, "Nothing that you didn't already know about" she said.

Gregg

<small>[ August 10, 2003, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: GreggC ]</small>

GreggC,

I'm have been a following your story for a longtime now since my situation is almost the same as yours. I just wanted to say that I've almost give up hope in mine ( Wife is preparing the paperwork), but your story inspire me to believe.

Thanks much.

Jamesp

jamesp,

What is your situation? Maybe you could post a new thread and tell us it's title.

I'm glad I'm and inspiration to someone, because it is sure hard at times. I am just trying to walk with Jesus and it helps. It helps to simply be kind no matter what.

G

GreggC,

My situation is very similar to yours, the only diferent is that this is my first marriage and we have 2 beautilful kids. it has been almost a year now since she told me that her feeling for me is no longer there and that she doesn't trust me because I have lied to her too many times. I have been trying to work on it to no avail. She is simply doesn't want to have anything to do with it. She had the lawyer write up a draft seperation papers. I asked her to really think hard about it and she agreed to do so. I guess we will see what happend.

J

Hi James,

I responded by starting a new thread to you.

Gregg

Sorry..double posted

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: GreggC ]</small>

Thanks for your post on my other thread Should I bring up our marriage with wife? , Free, Frank and Formerly Confused. I AM spending a lot of time with the Lord. My wife and I went to church today and then ended up spending the rest of the afternoon and evening together. We had a very good day, enjoying each other's company. We had brunch at her place/our house and then decided to go to the county fair. We walked around, got food, went to a lot of the craft booths, saw the animals, listended to the music together, etc.

She said that she had a very good time, but she felt bad that it was probably boring for me to go to the craft booths. I told her, "I really had a good time just being with you, and really had a good time going to the craft booths with you." I told her that I was honored to be able to spend time with her.

Afterwards, about 7:45 pm, we returned back to the house, and she asked if she could make us something for dinner. (It was fun singing in the car together on our trip home.) Afterwards, it was getting late, so as she was going to take a bath and get ready for bed, we said our goodbyes and I let myself out.

When we were at the fair, we did some handholding. I asked her if it was ok first, and said I had wanted to for a while. She said it was ok, and seemed pretty sincere.

Also, as I was hugging her goodbye (we give a fair amount of hugs to each other these days), I kissed her on the neck and cheek, then she gradually let me go. I guess I was hoping she would give me a kiss some day, or initiate some handholding.

Do you think I came on too strong and pushed her away? Why won't she kiss me at all, even on the cheek?

Gregg

<small>[ August 18, 2003, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: GreggC ]</small>

Does anyone have any advice on how should I handle our upcoming wedding anniversary? (It is on Sept 11.) Should I acknowledge it, wish her happy anniversary, send her a card, etc? When it seems not advisable at this point to talk about our relationship, how does this all work with our upcoming anniversary?

Thanks,

Gregg

Hi Greg,

I think you should do something... and here is my reasoning-- because you are the man and the head of your wife. You are the one who is to pursue and love her. "Husbands love your wives." From what it sounds like, you are doing it very gently and with much prayer and she is responding. I'm not sure what you should do... maybe a card and gift.. something that you know she would really like. In the card, be kind and loving and sweet but not overwhelming. But remember, it is you who pursues and there is a one-flesh bond between you that God created and that is poweful. I really do think she is responding to your reaching out to her in love.

Thanks, LoveMyEx,

Do you think that Dan and Erin would tell me to acknowledge it?

Another thing...Today, I was talking to another Christian brother at work asking if he would be interested in getting together at work for a designated time of praying together. He asked about my situation, and I said that we were still separated. He said, Have you prayed together?" I said, "No, not just the two of us, only as a prayer group at church." He said that he thought that we should get together and pray to God about our marriage. I said that I didn't know if I should, that I have been waiting for God to tell me if I should. I said that I didn't know if that was right to pray with her to ask God to have our marriage restored, because that may not be what she wants me to pray for.

Upon further talking with him if comes to us praying together, I should say something like, "Lord if it be Your will, help us to restore this marriage", or "Lord, if it be Your will, let me come home.", etc. We talked a little about how as the spiritual leader, I should have prayed to God asking if I should have moved out before doing so, instead of moving our because that is what it seemed like my wife wanted, just to please her or make her happy.

He suggested that I give her a call today after she gets home from work and ask her if we can pray together this evening. She said several weeks ago when I asked that she might be interested in praying together when I asked (not sure how enthusiastic she was in her response though.

I prayed and prayed to God to ask if I should call, etc. So finally I called her about 6:15 pm today and asked her about her day, and just a couple minutes of small talk. She said her day was alright, but that she had kind of a stomache ache, maybe from being hungry. I told her I was sorry, etc. Then I said that I remembered her saying a couple of weeks ago she would pray with me after I asked her. I said, "Would you be interested in getting together tonight to pray for some people, and that it probably wouldn't take too long." She said, "Could I take a rain check? I don't feel that good" I said, "Fine, I hope you feel better. Let me know if and when you want to pray together."

That was that. It was kind of discouragoing, but I told myself and God that it must not have been his will for us to pray together, at least not today, and that I would need to be patient.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,

Gregg

Hi Greg,

That's a good question... about Dan and Erin. I'm not sure. I think because you are in contact with her and she is responding to you, it would be okay. And because you are the husband. I don't know how Dan advises the men.

About your moving out, it sounds similar to me. I moved out not because it was right to do but because of fear. My husband told me "go" and I did out of fear that he'd be mad if I'd stay but all along, he did not really want me to go and saw it as me not really loving him. I learned that we have to do what is right in God's eyes and do everything out of love, not out of fear... even if our spouse is saying "go." Although it is a fine line, because you don't want to cause the spouse to resent you or feel angry, etc. It certainly takes much wisdom. It's so hard to know what to do in each circumstance.

Prayer would be good... you don't even have to pray about your marriage. I think it would really soften your wife's heart if you are just praying for her. Honestly, Greg, I don't know how a woman can not be drawn to her husband when he is praying for her, loving her, being tender and gentle to her. That is how Jesus is with us. Jesus is the Bridegroom and we (the Body... the people) are the Bride. Jesus is the one who pursues, even when we don't love back. Although He also does respect our choices when we reject Him. But He never does evil towards us and always still loves us and woos us in various ways. I do think that the man's role is different than the woman's and it is hard for me to know how to counsel you because I am a woman.

In my marriage, I was the one who first felt anger and resentment towards my husband and mostly it was because of how I perceived him to be treating me. He perceived it differently. Had he learned my "love language" and had he been gentle towards me, longsuffering, committed, and prayed for me without giving up (because he did pray for me but eventually his hurt embittered him), I know it would have softened my heart towards him greatly.

It sounds like you are learning alot through this and it sounds also like this man gave you some good and godly advice. That is good.

Yes, patience... you need to have patience. "Love is patient." "Love bears all things." "Love endures all things. "Love always hopes." "Love never fails." If you cannot pray with her, pray for her. You can tell her you are praying for her even if she does not respond.

I am truly sorry because I can't remember the whole background of your relationship, but from your last times spent with her and her holding your hand, dancing with you, talking with you, etc... well, she is not completely closed off to you. I think you have alot of opportunity to "win" her.

I hope I am giving your right advice. Pray about any advice you receive as you are doing. Keep humbling yourself and changing those things that she complained about, and guard your heart from the temptation to be bitter, impatient, angry, etc. You are going to have to be the one doing all the work here. But love does that. It loves even when it is rejected. That is how Christ loves us.

The Bible says, "Husbands LOVE your wives" and it says, "Wives, RESPECT your husbands." Wives respond very well to love as husbands respond greatly to respect. I mean, we both need love and respect, but I think women really need love in the form of affection, tenderness, gentleness, pursuit. They need to know that they are adored, cherished, admired. Of course, each person has different "love languages." Have you heard of those? You know your wife. What shows love to her? Is it words, affection, gifts, acts of service? Not what your love language is... but what shows love to her? Study her and speak her love language in creative ways right now since she is somewhat hardened, skeptical, etc.

Study Jesus. He is your example. Pray for your wife, with or without her.

I have prayed for you and will continue to.

Please pray for me too. My husband is engaged and I think I have lost hope. I am struggling greatly to have faith and to believe. Thank you.

God bless.