Stephan,

If she has a PPO against you, please do NOT contact her. These are very serious things, and you stand to lose not only your child but your freedom. It doesn't make any difference how frivolous the PPO is, it is still a legal order and YOU should be following it.

Don't call her, dont' see her, get legal advice NOW.

God Bless,

JL

Can she be setting me up?!
When she contacts me, isn't she in turn breaking her own PPO?
I did email her last night. Basically a hollow anniversary thought.
She called yesterday asking about her message,,,
Yes, i will start following my MIND!!!
No more contact, other than children reasons.

Stephan,

You have the children. Please don't put yourself in jeapordy of losing them. You
are winning already having the children.
The fact that there is a PPO against you,
and she leaves the children with you shows
the PPO is bogus. If she was so worried
about you abusing her, why would she leave
the children with you. You shouldn't have
e-mailed her last night. But it's too late
to tell you that now. Please no more contact
with her.
A Public Defender will help you with the PPO
order, and get it dropped. I don't know if
A public defender works with divorce and
custodial issues. You'll have to ask about
that. But he can get all charges, and PPO
dropped against you. She has broke the PPO
order also. So it's all ridiculous anyway
to have one.
Do what you can to keep the children with you.
Her walking away from them like that shows the
court her true self.

Ladysheep

Hey Ladysheep, do you think i can, or should contact her, request this PPO be dropped before we go any further?
I have been thinking about this, but my thoughts then turned to thinking somehow she could/would use it to where i was guilty, wanting it dropped. Do you understand what i mean?
As stated before, i have no wish, or desire to prevent her from seeing our children. If she's so convinced, and that serious about wanting or needing joint physical custody, then it should seem like she would be willing to drop her PPO!?

You know the saying, between a rock and a hard place?
My oldest two, 14 & 12, from previous, breath a huge sigh of relief that she is gone. Yet, in a same breath, i have two that pay the extreme opposite!?

With her two previous children, we had a wonderful relationship. Her son cried his eyes out, telling his mom he wanted to stay living here with me. To this day she refuses to allow him to come over here. In the past, i have allowed my 14 D to visit WW. My 14 yD, does not want to go anymore, saying she's tired of the way WW treats me. WW has allowed her 11y D to come back here.
WW can not stand my 12 y son.

The bed i made!!! Now i need to learn how to lay in it,,,,,,,,

Hi Stephen,

First, are you a Christian? The advice I'll give and insights I'll share (from my own experience, from God's Word, and from testimonies of others) will be from a Christian perspective assuming you are a Christian.

First of all, know that the enemy (Satan) has deceived your wife and from what I read, it sounds as if her heart has hardened towards you, which is very normal when a person is divorcing a spouse without Biblical grounds to. So, in regards to sending the letter, I'd say no because I do not think she will respond well to it. It will probably, to her, come across as if you are trying to manipulate her or make her feel guilty.

I say this because I did this with my husband. He is a wonderful godly man, but at the time of our separation/divorce, he was hardened towards me... very angry, confused, bitter. Etc. And when I showed him letters he'd written, well, he did not respond well. Of course, your wife might respond differently, but I do not think she would be receptive to your giving her the letter.

However, I certainly encourage you to continue to seek reconciliation, and I want to tell you that your wifes' behavior is indicative of her spiritual state and it goes far beyond just what is going on in your marriage. Satan wants to destroy not only your marriage, but her as well. HE is the enemy, not your wife. Remember, that when she does things she does, she is deceived and she is hardened. Jesus, when killed by the people he loved, said, "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do."

That's what I'd say about your wife. She doesn't know what she does. In other words, she is deceived by lies of the enemy and she thinks divorce is a solution to whatever problems there are, etc.

I would encourage you to check out two websites that have been such blessings for me: www.restorem.org and www.rejoiceministries.org. Both are reconciliation ministries for the spouse who is wanting reconciliation. You'd be amazed at how many spouses there are that are praying for reconciliation and also, at how many marriages that have been restored AS A RESULT of only ONE spouse praying for reconciliation. Both the couples who run these ministries were divorces (the men both cheated with OW) and are remarried now. The men will now tell you how grateful they are for wives who loved them and in their words "prayed" them home. But at that time, they would say things like "We will never be together" etc.

Anyways, my advice is to seek the Lord. Divorce is such a painful experience and you need to draw near to God during this time. Also, you need much wisdom. You will received so many different words of advice from others, but God may have a different plan. Most people will prob. tell you to forget your wife, to get all you can from her, to move on, yada, yada.

That's not what God says. He says "love your enemy" and "do good to those who curse you." Stuff like that. Stuff that seems so different from the norm. God also says "guard your heart." Don't guard it from love, but you need to guard it from advice. You need to seek FIRST God and see what He says in His Word about marriage, divorce, love, faithfulness, suffereing, etc. It will change your whole outlook on your wife and marriage. It changed mine! He is the one who helps me forgive, believe, hope, love, etc.

There is HOPE for your marriage, Stephen, and I am believing with you that you will see miracles in your life and marriage and that He can heal your wife and your marriage as well. You must believe, seek God, and obey the Lord doing what He tells you to do (in His Word).

I hope this helps! Go check out those ministries!!

God bless.

Stephen, just read the last two replies and am going to say some "radical" stuff that prob. others won't agree with and might get down on me for...

IF you "lose" your children, TRUST GOD!! God is greater than any judge, than any law, than any man. Do not look at any of this with human understanding. TRUST God. Do not walk in fear. Trust God.

I reread a couple of your comments and wanted to say... you said you can't trust her. I remember saying that to about my husband. And you know what? You can't trust anyone, Stepehn!! NO one. You know why? We are ALL sinners, all capable of sin. All of us. That is why, we need to put our trust in God.

IF you trust God, He will act on your behalf. He will do mighty things for you. He will take care of you. You may walk through fire, but still He will take care of you. Think of all the men and women in the Bible. Have those godly people as your examples.

Like Abraham. God told him to kill his son! That must have seemed crazy, but Abraham obeyed and trusted God. When God says, "love your enemies" that seems crazy, because us sinners say things like "get even" or "don't take that," etc. I encourage you to listen to and obey God above man.

Ladysheep said that you are "winning" by having the children, but I ask "winning" what?? At what cost? I am sorry because I don't recall all that you explained about what is going on with the kids and custody, but there is NO "winning" in divorce. There is only loss. Even if you "win" the kids, they will have lost out on growing up in a marriage.

I say, trust God, place your children in God's hands, do what you feel He'd have you do, love your wife (show her through your actions more than your words. Forgive her, even though she doesn't "deserve" it. None of us do! Love her by doing good to her, by being patient with her, by bearing with her, by suffering because of her. We are to follow Jesus' example and this is how He loved us).

I want to encourage you to do something: for a time, do not seek advice here but open your Bible, fast and pray, and seek advice from your heavenly Father who will give you the right and best advice.

I can't even say that all my advice is correct unless it is aligned with the Word of God.

The more you fight this in your own strength and understanding, the worse it will get.

I truly encourage you to get in your Word, to check out those sites, and to not seek advice from here as much as it seems you are doing right now. And I totally understand because it is such a scary, awful time. You also need fellowship, but a good church will provide you with better fellowship than any internet site can. And in a church, you can worship God as well. In here, you can only get man's advice. So, I'd say, go to church and worship God and get your heart in a place that is truly ready to do battle (not battle with your wife who you love, but battle with the Enemy who hates you, hates your wife, and hates your kids and wants to destroy all of your lifes). You need to get equipped the right way... with the right weapons. You are not fighting a flesh-and-blood war although it seems that way. You vs. wife. There is a spiritual war going on, and you have to fight with prayer, the Word, your faith, etc.

So, again, I'd say to you to go to church, to go to those two sites (they are not message boards. they are ministries with devotionals and you can get a prayer partner at www.restorem.org also. you should also sign up for the daily devotional at www.rejoiceministries.com. It is great encouragement), go get in your Bible, pray, and fast. I say this as a Christian sister who has seen the damage wordly advice can do to a marriage and who has also seen marriages restored as a result of people turning to God and doing things that seem "stupid" in the world's eyes.

That is all. God bless you Stephen.

P.S. Someone said, "If you don't have a lawyer or you do and you are just not using him/her, you are an idiot."

I don't totally agree with this. Sometimes getting a lawyer only makes things worse. I know a woman who did NOT get a lawyer and it softened her husband's heart and also God took care of all her needs. They are now remarried. I did not get a lawyer but saw an attorney once, something I regret because it only fueled anger. It made my husband feel like I was out to destroy him and it caused him much fear. So I don't believe getting a lawyer is always right, although I won't tell you whether you should or not.

IF you do, I would only get a lawyer who supports your desire to reconcile. If you get a lawyer who tells you shrewd ways to get all you can or who is pro-divorce, etc. ... I can guarantee, it will make things worse by only embittering your wife. And it's not worth it.

Remember, God is GREATER than any lawyer and any man.

Please, Stephen, do not walk in fear... like the fear of being "hosed". Trust God. If you seek Him and obey, etc... He is going to work on your behalf and NO lawyer can do the things God can do.

I also don't agree that your wife is using the PPO to "blackmail" you. No one knows the true depths of your wife's heart except God. She also is filled with fear as well as anger, etc. Remember, she is deceived right now by Satan. She is going to do horrible thigns because of that.

I do think you do need to apply wisdom and think of your future. Do not break any laws or do anything that might tarnish your reputation.

I also think you should not communicate with her right now, but not for the same reaons as some others have said. For the reasons of you being with God and getting your mind on him and off your problems and marriage, you know, getting your mind right with God and getting yourself in a place to be able to fight this. Also, you need to respect your wife. Even if what she is asking seems wrong or absurd, if it is not illegal, I'd do it. Because this will soften her heart.

Etc.

I consider myself a christian. We have always attended church. No, not 100%.
WW stated a few months ago she would never go back to church. My 5 y D told me this anyhow. So, if its really a fact, i don't know.
I tried months ago to get WW back to church, to no avail.

I emailed WW earlier. I have to give her first rights, opposed to the babysitter. So i responded to her request for my upcoming schedule. I also informed her i'm confused what it is she wants from me, referring to me agreeing to joint custody. I'm still not sure if its something i have to do.
I have been MR. HUMBLE, for the longest time, times it feels like i'm her doormat. After reading the response from lovemyex, i now wished i would have continued with the Mr nice guy. Also thinking, where do nice guys finish?
You know on Fathers Day when she called me, upset and yelling, and doing her usual accusing. She was totally POed at me! She was mad because she has to pay child support. Not because she no longer has custody. (which now she's not able to dictate to me any longer) more so cuz she now has to pay.
The right thing to do. Yes, we as the human in flesh, think selfishly, revenge, vindictive, manipulate, control, hate resent,,, I know, i have a wonderful wife who gives, and she gives a lot. Accusations, blaming, threatening, leaving ultamatums, to be included. These have been her way of giving as well. Does anybody have any idea how this can warp both minds involved!?

Custody, win and lose!? I wonder!? From the emotional trauma, and scars, my WW placed on the innocent children, from this bogus PPO, to refusing them to phone or visit me. With everything in between that has been involved.
Win?? Lose??
Children are automatically loosers, now they will never experience the true family anythings.Robbed of every bit of a family everything!!!Now to be taught as a single family. . Maybe they can capture some in a story book. And to think, its as simple as a choice!!?? A choice one, or both responsible adult parents *choose* selfishly.

Manipulate, to feel guilty!? Have you been talking to my wife? lol Do you have any idea how many times i have heard exactly that? That i was doing, or saying,,, just to make her feel guilty. That i was manipulating her?? I always thought it was human, to feel guilty?(sometimes, that is)

Til death do us part!? Just how many times does God want us to forgive and forget? I haven't stopped yet.

Blackmail with the PPO. I do think she is trying to blackmail me. Its like she's now using it, asking to come to agreements, and she will drop PPO. What is it, if its not blackmail? It sure isn't right, what ever it is.

Tarnish my reputation, its tarnished. Do i care? No. If anything, i know the truth, as well as God, and my children included. My reputation, i will no longer loose anymore sleep over it. At one time i informed my wife i would accept all of her accusations, telling everybody it was all true,that i cared for her, reassuring her, that i do love her, still!? . Here i'll have to mention even when she accused me of sexually violating her.

Its like the softer i get, the harded she gets. In fact, the harder is her *stomp*,,..!!??
Soften her heart. I do know she's acting nice right now, just to get what she wants. I'm sorry to say that, but its the truth.
Recently she spoke of still wanting me and my son to move out, so she would not have to move to her moms, different town. Who now would become unstable? What was her true motive? *no one knows the true thoughts, feelings and or true attitude of anothers mind*
Thank you, i will give those sites a visit.

*the choices we make dictate the life we lead*

<small>[ August 02, 2003, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Hi Stephen,

Good to find out some more about you. Let me see if I can quickly reply here.

You said, "WW stated a few months ago she would never go back to church."

People, when they are deceived and hardened, say alot of things out of that state of mind. Things like "I never loved you" when really, it's not true and they do love. Try not to be discouraged by words she says. Don't be fearful either. My husband told me he didn't love me anymore and wanted me to leave when we were separated. Stupidly, and out of fear, I did leave and I listened to him and believed him. Later, he missed me, loved me, and told me he did NOT want me to leave. When Satan deceives us, it causes us to be very double-minded. That was something I was thinking earlier, about your wife, and possibly even you, being double-minded. On one hand you love her, but on the other you don't trust her, etc. It causes alot of emotional instability, and I know because I've been there! The only thing that keeps me stable and focused is when I'm in the Word and in prayer!

You also said, "I have been MR. HUMBLE, for the longest time, times it feels like i'm her doormat."

I know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (I don't know how to make a sad face on here!). And, even if you reconcile, you might feel like a doormat for awhile. There are things you can do to "respect yourself" while still laying down your life for her. Jesus says that true love is laying down our lives for another, even our enemies. Remember that "doormat" is a worldly term, not a Biblical one, and you feel like a "doormat" often because the world insists on being number one, etc. Well, also, I'm sure you probably have unmet needs. All I can say, is pray, pray, pray and ask God to meet those needs that go unmet. Ask him to give you strength to continue being humble, EVEN IF your wife doesn't respond or notice. He WILL bless you.

Stephen, you also said, "I now wished i would have continued with the Mr nice guy. Also thinking, where do nice guys finish?"

I want to encourage you to not despair or become discouraged thining fatalistically (something Satan wants you to do). From this point on, determine to do what is right-- what is right in God's eyes, NOT the world's! You truly HAVE to guard your heart from worldly advice because it often is so contrary from God's advice. And you must keep in mind that God is going to speak to YOU (if you are seeking and obeying Him) about your marriage and not other people. The people here don't know what God wants for you, and you must guard against listening to everything you hear because not all of it will be said in love or with God's Word in mind. This is not to say anything bad about anyone, but just that only God is going to have the right answers for you.

As for the nice guy, again it is a total lie of the enemy and the world that nice guys "finish last." Baloney! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Jesus was a "nice guy." Now, you will "finish last" if you make your wife an idol. In other words, if you become so consumed with it that you neglect God. I struggle alot with this and constantly have to surrender and trust God. It is the greatest test of my faith I have ever experienced.

I got kicked off line and luckily pre-copied my reply but I have to go back to look at the rest of your comments, so I will post this and then finish responding to what you wrote.

Part II <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Stephen, you said, "You know on Fathers Day when she called me, upset and yelling, and doing her usual accusing. She was totally POed at me!"

Yes, that would describe me with my husband before the divorce. And that would describe my husband as well. I now regret the anger I displayed, and I would not be surprised if your wife does someday as well. I am not defending her sins, but encouraging you to look at her actions and words again as the actions and words of someone who is in a way "lost". Again, she is deceived. As such, your love should be all the more strong because you do not want her to remain lost and deceived. Also, she probably sees a different side of the story. My husband would say things about me accusing when I felt I wasn't accusing. I learned to be empathetic and to humble myself to the point I could agree with him and say, "Yes, I am being accusing." Boy, that was hard, but it was worth the softening of his heart. God blesses humility. Humility doesn't seek its own but the good of others. Humility puts others first. When your wife is PO'ed, try not to be defensive but try to be compassionate and empathetic and understand the pain she might also be feeling. Despite the hardness of heart, she does feel pain, but she probably won't tell you that.

Stephen, you said, "Does anybody have any idea how this can warp both minds involved!?"

Yes, I do. I still have nightmares of vicious accusations when my husband and I were divorcing. It was awful! And I mean AWFUL!! I think we both felt like we were losing our minds. I read this book called "Stainglass Marriage" about a couple who reconciled after a divorce and they shared how they made accusations of things like child abuse, neglect, ets. and they fought viciously. They are remarried now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Something I had to learn that was not easy was to forgive. The world does not believe in forgiveness but we are all sinners, you and your wife, and with each of her sins, if you do not forgive her, you will be bitter and broken. No, she doesn't deserve forgiveness. Neither do I. Neither do you. Yes, she's been a horrible person, selfish and rotten. So have I. So have you. NONE of us are without sin. Forgive. Forgive. Forgive.

You said, "Children are automatically loosers, now they will never experience the true family anythings."

I agree. One of the most selfish things about divorce is that parents won't stay committed simply for the sake of the children. BUT, you can pray for your children and pray for God's hand of protection upon them, that they will grow up healthy and of sound mind despite the divorce. Also, again, have hope Stephen! It is not over! Maybe there will be a day that your kids witness the power of forgiveness and reconciliation. I pray they will!

You said, "Manipulate, to feel guilty!? Have you been talking to my wife? lol"

Heehee... no I haven't talked to your wife, but I listened to my husband and I heard alot of the same things! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am not a manipulative person, but he saw me as such because of the state of his heart at that time. Your wife sees you like that because, again, she is "lost" and deceived right now. And, this might sound wierd, but Satan is using her to speak to you. She doesn't know it, but her words are condemning you and it is really Satan's words to you. Remember when Peter said to Jesus, "No" and Jesus rebuked him calling him "Satan"! Peter didn't realize it, but Satan was using him to speak to Jesus, to stop Jesus from doing God's will. It's not like your wife is possessed or anything like that. Just that she has believed Satan's lies and she is saying them to you and Satan wants to keep you condemned. Remember, your wife is NOT the enemy. Satan is. Don't get mad at your wife. Get mad at Satan!!

You said, "Just how many times does God want us to forgive and forget?" An indefinite amount, Stephen. We never stop forgiving. Never.

You also said, "I do think she is trying to blackmail me. Its like she's now using it, asking to come to agreements, and she will drop PPO. What is it, if its not blackmail? It sure isn't right, what ever it is."

You're right that it's not right, but remember, she is lost and deceived. You have to see beyond all of her words and actions and look at the bigger picture of the spiritual war that is going on. No, none of it is right, but... we forgive, we endure, we bear. The Bible says that love covers a multitude of sins. A MULTITUDE. That means alot. Your love will compel you to suffer the pain of your wife's sinful actions. It will compel you to forgive. It will compel you to keep loving despite her rejection. It will compel you to love in a new way... in a way that loves God more and that even distances yourself from physical presence with your wife. A love will show itself not in words, but in actions, by treating her kindly despite her treatment of you, by praying for her, by speaking good of her to others, etc. That is love.

You said, "its tarnished."

God can untarnish it in the future. He can. Joseph was falsely imprisoned, accused of making advances at Potipher's wife. I'm sure the gossip abounded. But he endured it. He didn't even defend himself. God delivered him though and put him in a position of power and honor. Jesus also had a "tarnished" reputation, accused of things he was innocent of. He trusted himself to God to make the truth about him be known. If you are not sinning in your life, God will honor you and will reveal your righteousness... in time... trust Him.

Stephen, you said, "Its like the softer i get, the harded she gets."

Hmmm... that's interesting. It's very possible that is happening. That's because there is a spiritual war. Are you familiar with the story of Stephen in the Bible. The more he spoke the truth to the people, the angrier they got and in the end they stoned him to death. The darkness HATES the light.

This was what happened with my husband too. When I would do good, he would say "stop" and not want contact with me, because it was exposing his sin. There is a battle. I can't say that enough because it's true. And it will be a bloody, painful fight, but the fight will be worth it if you are fighting to save your marriage and to even save your wife from the consequences of the path she is choosing.

You said, "I do know she's acting nice right now, just to get what she wants."

Stephen, she probably doesn't even know what she really wants. She is double-minded because she is deceived and "lost". Pray for her.

I know it is soooooooooo hard! I have been there! My prayers are with you and yes, please check out those sites. Ask the Lord what he wants you to do. Seek Him and be open to whatever it is He shows you. Don't allow your heart to become hardened also. Trust Him and pour out your heart to Him. He will help you through this.

God bless

P.S. Just another thought. Erin and Dan at Restore Ministries do a much better job explaining this than me, but you do need to let your wife go. I mean, you cannot force her to love you or to stay married. It does not mean you give up because you can pray and still love her by your actions (not your words right now. I think right now, she won't receive your words of affection of love). But, you need to sort of give her what she is wanting- the divorce.

At Rejoice Ministries, they talk about the wayward spouse as the Prodigal Son. Well, if you think of it like that, you can think of how the father loved his son but yet did not stop him from going. God does not stop us either from making wrong choices. His arms are open to us when we return, just as the Father's arms welcomed the Prodigal Son home. There must have been people too who told the father that the son was a fool or who told him to give up on the son. Look at the other son's reaction. He didn't think it was right to rejoice over someone who'd been so selfish. God doesn't see how we see though.

Maybe that can help you some also. You do need to let go of fighting with her and of trying to force her to do anything. As much as you can, I would even give in to her demands. The Father gave in to the son's demands. The son wanted his inheritance; the Father gave it to him (knowing he'd squander it).

As for the child custody and getting a lawyer, pray and seek the Lord about what to do. Your first instinct will be to fight and to protect yourself because you will have fear of losing money and losing the children. But God is in control and you can trust Him. Seek Him and be careful about the advice you receive from others regarding this.

My husband made some unreasonable demands from me that made me sooooooo mad. But then I gave into them and agreed. I saw his heart soften so much with both love and respect for me. He KNEW he was being unloving, unreasonable, etc. and when he saw that I was still responding with love, it really touched him. However, stupid me, I later got angry and bitter again and well, that resulted in him being angry and stopping all contact with me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So, be wise, and trust God and don't allow anger or bitterness or fear to dictate what you do or don't do.

Hi Stephan,

I guess your winning the children wasn't the right thing to say, but I did mean it as far
as the PPO/charges is considered. Of course the children never win in a situation like the separation of the parents. I hurts them intensly. And the fact that she has been refusing you requests to let her visit them, makes it worse on them. I am just surprised even though a PPO is on you, she had an ex-parte temp custody of children, then in the
long run, you won custody of the children on June 14th. There must have been a reason the courts granted you that. That amazed me. Is it
because she walked away from them? Or did the court find you to be the better parent because you did not walk away from them?
I know some men get custody of their children, but it's usually not the case. The reason she
may be refusing visits with them may be because
you have full custody, and no visitation has been set with the court. She may be afraid if
she takes the children w/out a court order of joint custody and/or visitation, that could work against her. Her lawyer may be advising her of that. I'm also surprised she has a say of babysitter, and or daycare, if she doesn't have custody in any way at this time.

It's really your decision whether you want to pursue allowing her joint custody of the children w/ or without the PPO order. Ask yourself this...Is it important for the children]
to see their mother?(Most would say yes)...Is it unsafe for the children to visit their mother at this time?(Then "NO") Children need both parents only if both parents are safe to be with. Encourage the children to love and respect their mother, no matter how hard it is.
Try not to talk down about mother in front of them, it really makes matters worse.

Stephan I really don't know the allegations and charges she brought against you to put a PPO in place, but you do have the right to defend yourself w/ Gods help.
I was in court a few years ago concerning my daughter. My daughter
wanted to go live with her father who is a drug
addict and in and out of prison. (I left that
state when she was 3 because of his abuse, she is now 18.) Anyway, when she turned 13, he was trying to get her, would send her money out to get out there. Juvenile interstate compact would bring her back though, he had no custody. He tried getting custody at age 14or15. And when they told me I needed a lawyer, I said "What do you mean I need a lawyer, I have the best lawyer, God!" Well after doing some thinking about it, I did end up getting representation, and daddy lost immediately because a back ground check was done on him (which only my lawyer and the police working together had authority to do). He still didn't stop and would send her money to run out there, while she wanted to "help" him try to get off drugs, picking up his needles all over the garage. She would say "MOM, I can help him stop!!" How sad..I knew she couldn't. His past is not in the past. His past is still his present if you know what I mean. I cried and cried because I didn't think the court believed me ( I almost had a nervous breakdown in front of the judge, trying to convince him) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , when it was all over they believed me. And God did intervene with that lawyer, and for that I'm thankful. You see he hated me all those yrs I took her away from him...that he waited until she became a teen...to get her...and tried to abuse me that way also. Right before my daughter turned 18 she took off out there again,
and the court couldn't do anything about it this time because of her age. I feared and cried and prayed, because before, the Juvenile interstate compact would bring her back, but this time they couldn't. The night she got there in March, her dad was arrested. I was amazed, and know it was the justice of God intervening. The woman that was with him picking my daughter up from the train station was an undercover cop, and he didn't even know it, he just thought she wanted to do business with him if you know what I mean. He is going to prison for a long time this time. He will not be able to mislead my daughter again. I had to fight in the Family courts for 3 yrs, tell me that wasn't stressful, but God did intervene and sent many special people to me in court, and for that I'm thankful.

My daughter wanted her daddy so much by the time she was a teen (which is the usual age, if never seeing them), but I had to fight w/ God's help to keep her safe.

Now that she is 18, she see's it all for what it really was, and tells me "Mom, I wished I would have listed to you!!" She is the sweetest, most specail daughter in the world, and has grown quite a bit through it all. She lives w/ grandma (his mother) and has a good job, and getting ready for college. I don't fear anymore because of him, he's locked up. If he wasn't locked up, believe me, my daughter would be locked up by now. God prevented that!! She wants to stay there for now until she gets out on her own. I am so proud of her. And she even has a boyfriend who isn't black(I'm not prejudice, but these guys were low lifes), and on drugs. He treats her like a lady. She say's "mom, he's so sweet and a christian!! He talks just like you, he's just like you!!" I'm so happy for her!!! A few years ago, she would've ran from any christian, especially one like mom. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's been a long haul.

Stephan, you have a lot of decisions to make, and I pray the Lord gives you wisdom to make the right ones. With all them children, you are going to need it!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Do your best for the children, they are what's most important right now. You do need straight
answers from your wife, and I hope you get that.

As far as the PPO, I would really advise you to see if you can get a public defender, because it does look like there are charges, in order for a PPO to be placed, you do need representation for that. Don't try to convince her to drop it. Let the court deal with it, and help you in that area. Believe me, they document everything you do. If you are innocent fight, fight, fight!!
If you are guilty, admit it!!

God Bless you, you are in for a long haul now.
Eat good, sleep good, pray good. Get a Dr. for antidepressants for now if needed and family counseling. And take good care of them children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And of course keep posting!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

The PPO is nothing but bogus, full of lies. According to the Police department, anybody here in Michigan can put a PPO on anybody. There are no charges of any kind. My W just accused me of harrassing her, following her around town, and forcing her from mariatl home. I can't remember the other allegations. She had three addittional pages added. Regards to harrassing, i did go to where W worked. Maybe 6 or 7 times. @x to give her money, three maybe four cuz our 5 yd wanted to see her mommy. I also called there several times.Just as she requested. The only thing is, my W twisted the facts into what she wanted them to be. I even left her supper in her van one eve, she twisted that all up as well.
I dropped my two oldest off at the high school one day. On my way back, i noticed my W was like two vehicles in front of me. AT the first lighth, she turned left, i went right. I headed around the block, so she wouldn't think i was following her. As it turned out, when i came out to the road i needed, she had just went past the intersection. I turned, was behind her again, so i quickly turned on my blinker, hoping still she wouldn't think i was following her. AFter i dropped my children off, i was heading to the grocery store. One day she seen me leaving the gas station, she pulled honking, i tried to act as though i hadn't seen her. In her PPO, she stated that i pulled up behind her, that i became upset cuz she wouldn't give me a kiss. SHe stopped me asking about the children. Three days earlier we had a discussion about going to MC, which she agreed. When we went to part, i asked her for a kiss(wrong idea) I really wasn't trusting ehr much at this time. Every agreement prior to the MC, she never followed thru. Sowhen i asked for the kiss, it really was a test!?

One thing i have said to my W often, you create an issue, then you don't know how to handle it.

With agreeing to any custody. Right now with the emotional impact this has on our children, i'm just not to sure. Also, i do not think nor *feel* that either one of them should have to witness their mommy hugging/kissing any other man. Maybe later down the road??? My 5yd has so often asked why her mommy does not talk about her daddy. This was more so when W had custody. From every thing involved, i felt as though i was the alienated parent!!! Again, it has always been the children and myself. They would cry when it was time for daddy to leave for work. When mommy had to leave, they would wave bye-bye to her. When i came home, they came running, when W came home, she maybe would get a hi mom.
With sharing custody. Again, i'm not so sure. Knowing that she willingly placed and subjected such an impact on her children, for her own satisfaction. Forcing our children to move into a strangers home. My w knew these people. They are her first sons grandparents. My children had no clue who these people were. These two loving grandparents were involved with refusing my children to simply telephone me, their daddy.
Am i thinking revenge, being vindictive,,, is this my intentions. I hardly think so. I have the best interest of my children to consider. Again, my W accuses me of wanting to pay her back.

With me now having custody. My wife helped with this issue. She had no stable home, had some sort of an affair. Wanted top seperate brother and sister,,,, I also showed love and concern for the human that my W is. Discussed the PPO with the Friend of the court investigator. I spoke the truth, and gave the facts. W/o tearing my wife down or apart. Shared how she said she wasn't ready to be a mom to my first son, who is 12. Shared how i was called home from work, and what my W said as to why.

I discussed the evening when my wife accused me,of sexually violating her, and when i recieved a phone call from her co-workers. I went into the details, with this lady from the courts. Was i scared?yes! Scared of my wife!? At that!!

The morning my W left, iawoke her as i normally do, gave the quick husband love ya,,,in a voice so extremely soft, so sincere, i heard my wife say, *i love you to honey, have a good day*
I walked thru these doors on my personal cloud nine!!! WOW!!! She is not going to leave!!!
A few hours later, my gut hurt as if i was just kicked from a horse. I left work, raced home. My world was crushed when i came into the house.
This soft voice my wife had this morning, i have never heard that before!!! Never!!!

This night she ended up staying the night here. She left for a few hours, with some type of bag in hand, saying something about driving, and eyes contacts,,,.. The next day, she asked if she was a good mother/wife. I said we all have our moments. Yes i think you are ok. SHe stated fine! I'll just stay here and be a good wife, and a good mother. My reply was, * not under these circumstances*

I realized i became carried away. Sorry. :-)
My wife was often upset with me saying *you talk to much!*

Yes, visitation has been set, or ordered. Yes, its very important for the children to spend quality time with their mother. I would, nor could never deny, or stop that. Again, my W is upset because she has to pay child support. Lets just think about this for a second. Times up! lol
What statement is this? Myself, only being dad, i would be upset cuz less time with children. Minding you, i didn't carry them for nine months.

I'm so glad to hear how wonderful your daughter is doing. Yourself as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My roller coaster ride has settled down tremendously!!! I lost maybe 20 pounds when this first began,,,,,sleep. What was this? eat. oh my God, how?

Take care,w/love right back at ya, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LoveMyEx,
Thanking you for the inspiration!!!
Thank you God.

and thank you, i've already spent some time at these sites.

Anymore i wonder, if its unhealthy to allow myself to continue thinking save my family, and marriage?? Quite often i hear, just remind the children that mommy and daddy love you, mommy and daddy just do not love each other anymore,,,
What are we really teaching our children? When mommy or daddy act like a butt head, leave them, go replace them, and start all over. Its all ok little jimmy, and little susie. Yeah right!!!

In church this morning, was about reconciliation,,, quite interesting!@!!

When i hear my W say i'm trying to force her,,, maybe i should be asking what am i saying and or doing to leave this impression?
Reassuring to you, i do know this could never happen. Yes, there is a small part of me wanting to force her back. I do know its virtualy impossible. Do you think i'm acting on the smaller thoughts?
Do you suppose i'm wrong for refusing to agree with joint custody, for what she ahs subjected on the children? Is it really an issue of right or wrong? To be totally truthful, i just do not know anymore!

Anyhow, i just wanted to say thank you for the links you have directed me to.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thank you
God bless

Stephen, I'm glad you checked out those sites. Now, you need to take advice given from them and from the Word of God. As I read your posts here, I am reminded of my own self when my husband and I first divorced. I was distraught, hurt, angry, confused, so many things... bitter, and also I wanted people to help me and tell me what to do. I made foolish mistakes of telling people things my husband had did and that very much upset him. Now, I can't blame him. The Bible calls it slander and I think we really need to obey and not slander or gossip to people but rather share our thoughts with the Lord. He is certainly sufficient to help us.

I want to ask you if it is truly helping you to share these things about your wife here? Yes, you are receiving some advice and yes, you are able to talk to people which you need that fellowship. But let me ask you this: is it bringing you closer to God, is it bringing you peace, is it helping the situation get any better? I'd venture to say "no" to all three of those.

I can't encourage you enough to seek the Lord. I do not think it was a coincidince that your service today was about reconciliation! God works in mysterious ways! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I can't tell you how many times, almost daily, some reminder of my husband, etc. will cross my path in just the most unexpected ways.

I would encourage you Stephen, that whatever time you spend on here, you spend at least twice as much time in your Bible! God has the best advice for you and you have to remember that He is not revealing His will for you to us here in these forums. He will reveal His will to YOU as you seek Him.

God bless.

LoveMyEx, actually i was wanting some answers. I realize i allowed myself to slander my W, and become caught up in the gossip form of things.
When i first started posting here, i was hoping to find some one who has experienced situations similar. Some one who knew what would work, as well as what wouldn't. I truly came here, wanting answers. Hoping to get a better understanding. Yes, in the meantime, straying further, and further away.
With whom ever i have spoken with, and to who ever i will speak with, i have always made it clear that i want to save my marriage. Yes, the world tells me forget about her, divorce her, you deserve better,,,
One thing i also say, there is my side, there is her side,,, and then there is the truth.
People always talk about their own feelings, and or thoughts. *Feelings* are completely *selfish*

LoveMyEx, really, i can't thank you enough!!!
God does work in mysterious ways. He sent you here, for a reason. Thank you God!!

Last night my two children, and myself spent time at those two sites. We sent our prayers, where they belong. I realize more than ever just how much i have allowed myself to stray.

May i ask you a personal question?
Are you and your husband back together? I don't mean to pry.

There was a reason why i started looking forward to posts from you,, at first i thought for other reasons, from some of what you have shared. I thought from you i was going to recieve a better understanding, where my wifes, attitude, actions, reasons, blah blah, were concerned.
Only now to realize i was correct, only for a different reason. Thru God, you have been a God send Sending myself, as well as my family back on track.

Lets remember to give thanks to God, we can never praise him enough.

Hi Stephen,

Wow, your heart is very humble. God is obviously working in your life right now! Yay! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> it's soooo hard to know how to get answers without sharing stuff, you know? I mean, I have been there too. Even recently, I was sharing things where I then thuoght, "Dang it, I shared too much." I was encouraged to go to God with my questions, requests, sorrows, gripes, etc... and so I did. And I found also that every time I shared things with others, well, it only made things worse by making me angry and stirring things up. And I hated it when they'd start talking bad about my husband but I realized it was my own fault for sharing things I should not have shared. I am glad you were able to take the advice I gave you. It shows that your heart is humble and desirous of doing right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I agree with you about the whole sides thing and then truth. I saw so clearly in my marriage how the Enemy (Satan) was working because there were things my husband believed about me that were not true and I KNEW Satan was deceiving him and to this day, all I can really do is pray and trust God. But I think in divorce, both people turn on each other and Satan deceives us into thinking that we are enemies (husband vs. wife) when in reality, he is the one who is the enemy!!

I truly am so glad that God has been able to use me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It's almost a "fluke" I'm even in here. I just happened to read a testimony in the www.restorem.org site that said how they came in here a long time ago and someone referred them to that site. It was someone whose marriage has recently been restored! Well, I was in here at first, after my divorce, about 10 mos. ago, and I thought maybe that was me who referred here and was sooooo excited to think maybe God used me to help restore a marriage! Wow! It prob. wasn't me, but I came in here to see if I could find out. heehee... silly! Well, then I began reading and posting.

It's really neat though because 10 mos. ago I was so distraught, and like you, I was seekign advice... wanting someone to tell me how to get through this and what to do. I was desperate. I haven't been here for a long time, but it is neat to be able to encourage and to know, that I no longer need advice because I have sought the Greatest Counselor of all! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> The Bible says that we comfort others with the comfort that's been given us. If I hadn't gone through what I have, I would not be able to comfort and encourage you. I probably in fact, would have said to you, "Oh, move on!" and I would see it as an impossible situation, because that's how I used to see it before my divorce. Funny, huh, that my divorce taught me about marriage and love. Sometimes, I guess it takes something like this for God to really work in your life.

Sometimes something has to die in order for Him to recreate it and bring it to life. Just like when we get saved... we die to our old self and then are made new. Have you read Philemon before? I love that short little book in the Bible. It's about this slave named Philemon and I can't remmber all the names but I think it's Paul who brings him back to Timothy (I think?). He was gone for awhile, taken away. And Paul says to Timothy something like this: "Perhpas the reason he was taken from you was so that he could return as a real brother, better than before."

Okay, I'm gonna look it up real quick 'cause it's an awesome verse! Philemon vs. 15 "Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back for good-- no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother." Wow... is that not powerful when you apply that to a divorce situation??

I was in the store the other day and just happened to see this little crossstich thing. It said, "God still does miracles" and of course, I knew it was a reminder to me. Constantly, God gives me these reminders and I press on, not with wishful thinking, but with a hope and a faith that is grounded in the Lord Jesus... the same Lord who raised Lazarus from the dead, the same Lord that himself rose from the dead, the same Lord that is ALIVE and working on my behalf. That is the Lord that hears our prayers and does miracles.

I cannot say that He WILL restore my marriage because I do not want to say something that I do not know with certainty, but I do believe that I am to continue to hope for it, pray for it, and wait upon Him for it.

Yes, Stephen, I also believe he sent me here for a reason. And he does work in mysterious ways!

OH, I just read your last paragraphs. I'm so glad to see that you and your children spent time at those sites. I believe those sites are truly annointed and that those people have been called by God to minister as they are. I beleive God uses them and can speak to you through them. And I don't believe that about very many people either! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

No, my husband and I are still divorced and I do not at all mind you asking. We live on separate sides of the U.S. as well. I have not spoke with him for about 5 mos. now (we've been divorced 10 mos) at his request. We are both still single and I will remain single however long. We are both Christians and there was no adultery. Of course, I could share alot and maybe will later. I know my testimony will be much more powerful when my marriage is restored! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> God has worked sooooooo much in me in these past 10 mos. Almost every day I recall some foolish thing I said or did and I am so glad that God is changing me and helping me to grow and change.

I truly am humbled at how God has used me here. I am so very thankful. Truly I am.

I have not been praying and in the Word as much as I should be lately and on Wed. I am going to began a 4 day fast and really get some things in order, including my prayer list of marriages I need to pray for! I will be adding you and fasting and praying for you!!

This is an incredible and gut-wrenching journey but the Lord IS working and we can be assured of that!

YOu know, I have a book called "Winning Your Wife Back" by Gary Smalley. I think I will maybe start a post tomorrow and share some things for it. I would like to maybe send it to you after I do that. I am amazed 'cause there are like 3 or 4 men here who are wanting to reconcile with their wives. That is really awesome!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, I better go. God bless you. Hang in there and have faith and keep pressing on... one day at a time, one day at a time!!

LoveMyEx,
I just spent the last hour typing to you,, apparently i pushed the wrong key, my message disappeared,,,,

I to started a fast today. Just for one day though. Started more, and mew prayers,,,,

A lot of what you have shared, your thoughts, actions,,, its as if i'm reading my own writing.
Do you understand? Especially the talking too much, then when others would say their thoughts,,,,i too defended my wife. To this day, i still defend my wife. In fact, to this day i forgive and forget. I have some anger still.

I'm looking forward to reading some from *Winning Your Wife Back.* In fact, i'll check back here in maybe five minutes LOL
I'm not divorced yet, (praying that this never happens) yes, its like after the facts, the learning increases.
I really don;t have time to re-type everything i wanted to share, or say again.
Hey, I'am a STANDER!!! I will not sit down, bow down,,,,,,,
I have two little ones that really need a bath, and its their bed time. I really need to go.

Your truly remarkable, i think your husband made a mistake, his loss.

I wanted to share with you, several times today,from whatever reason,(meaning maybe a certain site, or a thought) i'd become reminded of either your personal thoughts, what you have shared, or the messages from God. So, apparently God wanted me to send this; ( *overflow* had me thinking of you)

"May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust
in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.*

Romans 15:13
God Bless you,,,

<small>[ August 05, 2003, 08:14 PM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

Hi Stephen!! Guess what?! I posted to you last night, and I lost it too! It was very late, so I didn't repost and was going to today but the day flew by and here I am, late again. I'm on the West Coast though, so it's not quite as late as the time on here says. But anyways... how are you? I hope you are doing good and hanging in there.

That is great about your fast. Fasting is really powerful. Esther fasted for 3 days before she confronted her husband, the king, and God worked on her behalf. Have you read Isaiah 58:6 on fasting? It talks about how fasting brings healing quickly and how God lets your rightesousness be seen, and also how you are fasting on the behalf of others. For you, you are fasting for your wife, and she really needs it because right now, she is basically "lost" and deceived by Satan. She needs your prayers.

The anger you sometimes have is normal. I think, first of all, that we all struggle with anger, esp. intensified in our 20th century America where we have road rage and long lines and impatience and long work days and so many things that cause us to be quick to anger. Divorce is a very bitter thing. Very bitter. Both my husband and I said things in anger and made some awful accusations against each other that were not true.

The Bible says "Do not let the sun go down on your anger lest you give Satan a foothold." I believe that if we allow ourselves to let our anger control us to the point that we sin and it consumes us, then Satan gets in and then he lies to us and we act on those lies.

Oh, I was glad to hear you are not yet divorced! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But you are not living together right? And you have the kids? I am going to have to go back and reread your initial posts to remind myself. I also pray that it never happens, and actually, it's wonderful you are not divorced and are now doing the things you are doing.

You said, "I'am a STANDER!!! I will not sit down, bow down,,,,,,,"

Heehee, sounds like you've been to Rejoice Ministries! Did you sign up for the devotional? You really need to. It is just so good and will come every day and it's as if those two are your friends and it's really important too to get that encouragement and Bible input each day because you will be tempted to give up and you will also be given advice contrary to standing. You need to guard your heart during this time against things like that.

It is really wonderful that God has used me in the way He has. I thought about it alot last night... how wonderful it is that He has been able to use me. Sometimes I feel discouraged and don't want to share because I know I will hear people say things like, "Don't tell people what to do" or "God doesn't heal every marriage you know" or stuff like that. But, I told the Lord awhile back, after He laid upon my heart all that He has, that I would always encourage reconciliation if given the opportunity, even to the worst marriage. One reason is because I think so few people encourage it. I am not even sure I would have really believe in it if it hadn't of been for those sites I found. I mean, I was like everyone else thinking divorce is "final" and you have to move on and it's crazy to forgive a person who's divorced you, etc.

But after the divorce, I did ALOT of studying. I read things on divorce on the internet and in books. I read things on marriage. I became very convicted about marriage and how divorce simply is not justified, unless it's a Believer who WANTS to leave or a person commits adultery, but even then, you don't have to divorce. The Bible says it's "permitted" not that it has to happen.

Well, then I found those reconciliation ministries on top of all I'd studied and read and I just really grew passionate about marriage and reconciliation, etc. So that's why I'm here saying what I've said to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm glad I've been given the oppportunity to.

Okay, it's late, but I'm going to post a little from Smalley's book because you've been waiting patiently... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

First of all, in everything I've read on reconciliation (from both those sites and this book), the goal is really to obey Christ and to grow closer to Him. That was one thing I loved about Erin's words. Boy, is she straightforward to! If someone sends a prayer request and is bashing her husband, she will not post it and will rebuke that person and tell them not to do that, etc. Well, she so much emphasizes that you can only change yourself (and God can change the spouse) and you need to focus on your own sins and you changing. Well, that's what I did, and continue to do. Because, really the goal, is not completely winning back the spouse but is being an obedient godly person.

Even if my husband and I never reconcile, by choosing this path, which has really been full of pain, I have grown alot and I have been kept from being a bitter, angry person. So many people are so bitter and angry, and I think it's because of the hurts in life and all the unforgiveness. Even though I have wept buckets of tears until I just ached and even though I have felt out of my mind at times, I still would rather go through this pain than to chose the path of hating my husband and "moving on" with bitterness and anger.

So, anyways... okay, here is some stuff from his book from his book:

This is a chapter on "penalty flags" that can damage the reconciliation process (in his book, he compares it to like a game of football where he uses that terminology):

"As you enter the game of winning your wife back, you must understand certain things, or you can hurt your chances of executing the right plays....

The following recommendations are not a smorgasbord of suggestions-- for you to pick and choose what you like. Instead, avoiding all the penalty flags and honoring each relationship principle highlighted here can provide you with a greater second-half game plan. That, in turn, will be an appealing invitation for your wife to return. But regardless of her response, becoming skilled in these relationship areas is always to your advantage.

1. Recruting (illegal substitution)

Here Smalley talks about recruiting family and friends to your side and how it's human nature for siding to occur. He says, "However, resist the urge to campaign; allow people to respond and act as they will. Your job is to stay focused on the goal and avoid expending energy by persuading key players (family members/friends).

when you recruit others, you never know when the practice will run a red light and come back to hurt you. Recruiting draws a penalty flag because of its boomerang effect-- it potentially can come hurling back. As this happens, it becomes very difficult to accomplish your goal of reconciliation because your wife is almost always driven further away.

In every situtation there is a way to respond that is best. But the reverse is also true. For example, the urge to share your side with your kids can be difficult to resist. You may feel that they are getting only part of the whole picture or a one-sided view. If you sincerely believe that lies or partial truths are being communicated, pray that truth will be revealed, then trust the Lord. The negative ripple effect of taking sides, or recruiting, is far-reaching. Therefor, hold on to the truth of Romans 8:31 "If God is for us, who can be against us?"

More to come...