</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by PLEASE HELP:
<strong>
Not quite the "Do what feels good no matter who gets hurt mentality of "the world"

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You mean like someone staying in an abusive marriage because it makes them feel "good" and "right" even at the expense of their children's phsychological and emotional well being? That point of view can also be turned on it's head depending on the point of view you're coming from.

This coin has two sides and what Ladysheep and myself pointed out was not something meant to hurtful or be abusive but rather the other side of the coin that you are not looking at currently.

edited for typos.

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Not-so-Silent-Observer ]</small>

Thankyou, Not-so-silent-observer, well said.

oooooppppppps!!!! Sorry C H R I S!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That wasn't very nice to say about lovingMyex BUT.... that statement is one of commitment and unselfish love for her children.... very commendable in my eyes....
Don't understand why it's not "very nice" to say that. It wasn't rude or negative at all.

More like the kind of Love Jesus had for us when he died for our sins....
But He was God after all, so He COULD do it. We are merely humans with all of our frailties, misgivings and mistakes. We are expected to TRY to be like Him, we are NOT expected TO BE like Him.

From an earlier post;
I also was very convicted about gossip and slander from reading a book from that one site I mentioned (Restore Ministries). There are some really, really strong verses on slander that caused me to tremble in my shoes and I stopped then and there! I'm glad I did too. I regret bad things I said at first and the anger and hurt it caused my husband.
First off, if it's slander, then it did not happen. Describing what actually happened is NOT slander.
No one wants to come here to read about how crappy others spouses were (okay, maybe some do.) But that is not the purpose of these forums. The purpose is to help you deal with a spouse who may be doing stuff which is bad for a relationship. So if you're posting just to make your spouse look bad, don't do it.

Posting about something they did to get some idea of how to deal with it is NOT slander nor is it making them look bad.

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Good points BOSS....oooooppps!!!! I mean C H R I S!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That would be pronounced: " <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> C-H-R-I-S-T-O-P-H-E-R <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> "

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Nope!!!!---HE SAID, "C H R I S!!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

As someone who has also been on this board a long time, I agree that the tone of the board changed - I do not think this board was ever a "Christian" board (otherwise I would never have come here to begin with), but at one time it WAS all about reconciliation. I think that changed the day they added the "Divorced" forum.

UGH OH!!!!

Sufb, I didn't read very much of your post. All I have to say is "Oh brother."

Ladysheep, you need to point that finger right back at yourself. If anyone is being manipulative, it is you. I'm sorry to say that because I have no idea what's going on in your life right now or why you are here.. you have never said (when I asked you about it), and I do not enjoy saying this to you because perhaps you are hurting. I don't know, but you have made some very judgemental statments about my life, my marriage, and my choices regarding them. I do not appreciate it. If you did not like me saying that I didn't think all that you said was Biblical, that's all you needed to say. You did not need to rather accuse me and namecall me like you did.

Please, do me a favor-- LAY OFF! This is doing neither of us or anyone else any good.

Oh, by the way, you said "I have only posted once on this thread and it was about agreeing with sufbd, and psychology." Perhpas that is all you said in here, but you made other rude comments to me in another thread.

You are wrong if you think that my reason for being here is you. You said that on another thread somewhere. And you know full well that I have hardly taken "everything" you've said and twisted it. Go back and reread everything I've said and you'll see that this all started because I said one thing... that I didn't think everything you said was Biblical. And from that, you went on a tirade of accusations against me.

And NO Ladysheep, I have not "tried" to make you look like anything. Trust me, my time in here does not revolve around you. If you'd like to flatter yourself to believing it does, go right ahead but it's doing no one any good at all.

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

For the record, Ladysheep took my comment out of context. I said, "IF..." IF means if! My husband is not abusive or unloving! HOWEVER, yes, if he were, I would STAY MARRRIED!! I might separate but I would not be on the divorce bandwagon first thing. Now, if you want to continue to judge me for making a decision for my life, so be it. That is your decision, not mine. But, again I would ask ladysheep to lay off and not post to me. Your words have done nothing to edify in any way. Same to sufb. If anyone is manipulative, it is you ladysheep. Shame on you.

Not so silent, Please don't assume what side of the coin I am looking at. Thanks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> What you have pointed out might not have been intended to be hurtful, but Ladysheep has already attacked me in here in another thread.

As for your comments, YES, I mean like STAYING in a marriage... but not becuase it makes them feel "good" but because they said vows... and for me, because I believe in the power of Christ who can change any person and any situation. As for children, which is better... growing up in a divorced family or watching one spouse fight for the marriage? Obviously, seeing a spouse abused (which I have not been abused... like I said, I said "IF"), is not good for children but neither is divorce. Either way it's a "no win" situation for everyone. There will be great loss with divorce EVEN IF there was "good reason" for the divorce. Read Judith Wallerstein's "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce", a 25 year long study on the effects of divorce on children. To me, one of the most selfish things of divorce, is that parents are willing to go find their "happiness" at the sake of their children's happiness.

It is not sad at all to me to be willing to be mistreated. My life is not my own, it belongs to Jesus Christ, the one who can deliver, heal, and comfort me in ANY affliction. I will not do what I just WANT to do. I will obey the Lord no matter the cost. FOR THE SAKE OF THE KIDS, I would stay married to a man even if I was unloved (which I wasn't... I was very loved) or mistreated. If there was severe abuse, then I'd separate and pray and fast and ask God for wisdom in how to handle it.

My example is Christ, the one who hung on the cross and suffered a painful death... WILLINGLY mistreated and abused.. for my sake and your sake. He did not have his best interests in mind. He had ours in mind. He did it for us. That is the example I want to follow.

You should go read the testimony of Sharon Ruiz, a woman who stayed faithful to a man who abused her. He is now a Christian with a powerful testimony BECAUSE of her prayers and her loyalty to him. The night he got saved, he was planning on killing her and the kids. God INTERVENED.

Yah, yah, I can hear ladysheep now.. "but that doesn't happen with everyone." And I never said it did, but it can happen and does happen.

LoveMy Ex,
Sufb.. and a couple of others aren't worth your time sister...
You are a kind loving soul firmly committed to re-storing your Marriage and helping others...\
We agree on almost every point... I'm a little rougher around the edges than you..

I'm NOT going to waste my time going in circles and defending myself and playing their little "mind games" anymore....that is what satan wants me to do...to waste my time with them... while people post and are never answered because I'm here going in circles....

I'm ONLY going to post to others who ARE commited and searching for ways to SAVE or RE-KINDLE their Marriages....I hope you will do the same because your commitment to our Lord and your Marriage is very inspiring and would help these OTHER people....
NOT.... these people with the Smoke..... the Poke.... and the hurtful Joke....

GOD BLESS.... let's go try and help... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks Frank. Your words have encouraged me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And you are right. I like everything you said and will take your advice. I didn't really come in here to be called "manipulative" etc, etc and I didn't come in here for support either or to be told that I'm like a mideastern woman or all the other stuff that sufb said (which I didn't read most of it to be honest). I am here for the same reason you are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God bless and I'm glad you aren't letting it get to you and thanks for reminding me to not let it get to me.

You've made it fairly clear which side of the issue you are looking, it's not really an assumption but rather an observation of your own words and stated beliefs. You're quite entitled to them and I won't belittle you for them but please allow me the same even though my beliefs and faith may differ greatly from yours.

One thing that does rankle me though, is the seeming assumption that most if not all people get divorced to go out and find happiness. Not so. People do get divorced for valid reasons. To me abuse(physical, sexual and so on) are valid reasons for divorce. As is adultery. So is child abuse in any form. I don't doubt that anyone who finds themselves in such a situation goes forth in their decision in great pain and with a lot of consideration and thought beforehand.

In my situation I was forced into the divorce by my now ex-H. I tried to stop it but since it takes two to make a marriage and only one to break it I had no choice in the matter. The OW was what he wanted and that's the path he chose. We have not spoken for over three years since there thankfully were no children in our marriage. There is zero chance of reconcilliation because quite frankly without children as a bond he had no reason to maintain contact and hasn't. I don't even know where he lives anymore.

Those sorts of situations happen all the time. I didn't divorce and remarry to go out and seek greener pastures. I was forced into divorce and chose to remarry because a. it's painfully obvious my ex was never coming back and I happened to meet and fall in love with a wonderful person after the dust had settled and b. at 28 I did not want to be sentenced to never seeing my dreams of a healthy marriage and future children obliterated.

I would be more than willing to bet that there are many people just like me out there and I can pray and hope and wish for reconcilliation all I'd like but there's really no chance of that happening.

I just cringe at some of the blanket "demonization" of divorce and divorced people when there is such a wide range of situations that people find themselves in when this option comes into play.

Oh and Please Help, I assure you, the only time I'm even vaugely close to "satanic" is right before my "friend" comes calling and even then a hot bath and bar of chocolate can completely "exorcise" me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: Not-so-Silent-Observer ]</small>

"You're quite entitled to them and I won't belittle you for them"

Thank you, that is much appreciated. Neither will I belittle you for your beliefs which I'm sure differ from mine.

"please allow me the same even though my beliefs and faith may differ greatly from yours."

When I stated MY beliefs and faith, it is not an attempt to tell you to believe like me. It is also not an attempt to put your beliefs down.

"One thing that does rankle me though, is the seeming assumption that most if not all people get divorced to go out and find happiness."

This is not an assumption. Studies show that MOST divorce is not for reasons of abuse or adultery. Most divorce is for reasons of "irreconcilable differences." That is not an asusmption I personally make. It has been shown in many studies. Most people do divorce because they are "not happy" anymore with their spouse. Obviously there are many other serious reasons as well, like abuse and adultry, but those aren't the reaons behind the majority of divorces (speaking of America here).

"I don't doubt that anyone who finds themselves in such a situation goes forth in their decision in great pain and with a lot of consideration and thought beforehand."

I don't doubt this either.

I don't really have anything to say to the rest of your story. Glad you are happy and my purpose in here is not to tell you you were wrong, etc. I hope God blesses you and that you have a wonderful marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Truly I do.

previously posted by Lovingmyex,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ladysheep has already attacked me here in another thread. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here you go again twisting words (manipulation)Attack you??? I don't think so. Please refer back to thread on "D/D" under "Success Stories...Praise God!!!(SUFBD...can read too).

Sent With Love, Ladysheep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LoveMyEx:
<strong>

This is not an assumption. Studies show that MOST divorce is not for reasons of abuse or adultery. Most divorce is for reasons of "irreconcilable differences." That is not an asusmption I personally make. It has been shown in many studies. Most people do divorce because they are "not happy" anymore with their spouse. Obviously there are many other serious reasons as well, like abuse and adultry, but those aren't the reaons behind the majority of divorces (speaking of America here).

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for the thoughtful reply.

On the issue, I would wonder about that study because based on personal experience and what I've witnessed friends and aquiantences(sp?) go through and all the people in this forum it looks to me if adultery(physical and emotional) is the leading cause of marital strife and dissolution.

Now, that's not to say that people always claim that on their divorce papers. Since I refused to make a move towards divorce my ex was the one who filed and he put "irreconcilable differences" as the cause, not adultery which was the true cause. I did not move fast enough to correct it and so on the records that's what it says but that's not why. I have a sneaking suspicion in most "no-fault" states this happens far more often than not.

It's very sad but I truly believe that there is an involvement by an OP(whether that be an EA or PA) in 90% or more of divorces.

Ladysheep, "Here you go again twisting words (manipulation)Attack you??? I don't think so."

I'm not going to bother finding the thread in which yes, you did. Calling someone you barely know and who has barely interacted with you at all a "manipulative one" because you are angry at a stand they have taken, is a form of verbal attack intended on making them look bad. I don't twist your words ladysheep (I asked you to find where I did and to post them; you didn't and can't because I didn't twist them) and for the benefit of others, you and I need to drop this!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't wish to discuss any of this with you or sufb anymore and I imagine it's not doing much good to anyone to be reading our disagreements. BTW, please don't say to me "sent with love" because it's not sent with love.

Silent Observer:

I will look and see if I can find some studies that show that. I know I've read them before, but offhand, not sure where. Actually, my experience has been that I've witnessed alot of marriages that have ended simply due to "irreconilalbe differences". I know a couple where there was adultery. I think though we hear so much about the ones with adultery and abuse (esp.in the media) that it seems like there are more of those but there really isn't. And yes, I agree, from what I've seen, most in here seem to have adultery or abuse involved. But again, considreing the population of America, there's a small percentage in here... probably most of whom read the books. I assume.. could be wrong.

Dear Lovingmyex,

Go back and read both threads, and you will see it, perhaps you won't because you don't want to.
It would take a lot of my time to post each post again, so it would be easier for you to go back and read both threads.

Ladysheep

LoveMyEx...
There you go again... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I PROMISE it won't end.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Let me do it for you... you go find a worth while thread to HELP someone... this is what you are best at... don't waste your talents...I'LL TAKE IT FROM HERE....

Hey ladysheep, ,
BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA

And I think what you said about.... BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA
And futhermore...
BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA
BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA
BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA YADA !!!!!!

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT!!!! SENT WITH YADA YADA YADA

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: PLEASE HELP ]</small>