</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adgirl48:
<strong>As much as I think I would eventually want a future with him, right now what I most care about- truly- is the fun we have and that we enjoy each other's company. ...with this guy, truly if he is happy, I am happy. I want to be a giver AND a taker. Instead of just take take. So in your opinion, this is good and a healthy way to date? I pray about the 'relationship' or dating or whatever you want to call it and ask God to show me if it is His will for this man to be in my life and if so, in what capacity. I know that if I am actively seeking God's will, he will reveal himself to me and show me the paths to take. IF I am to date others, I feel like God will show me that too and help me to find someone else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I appreciate and respect someone enough to consider that person a good candidate for a spouse, then by definition I view that person as someone whose friendship would also be valued (since a spouse should also be a friend). I do not understand the viewpoint that says I should withdraw from friendship with a person of the opposite sex just because they don't want a romantic relationship.

If I truly love someone - and I had better love anyone I actually believe I would like to marry - then above all I want what is best for that person. If what's best for him or her does not include romance or marriage, then that person's well-being must supercede any romantic preferences I myself may have. If I truly love someone, then breaking off a friendship just because I can't have what I want would in my view be an absurdity. On the other hand, if my involvement in that person's life is not making a positive contribution to his or her well-being, then I should either discontinue the relationship or change it so that I am contributing something positive.

All of this assumes that I am not actively (desperately?) seeking a mate to the (near-)exclusion of other relationships. None of us has an infinite amount of time and energy to invest in our relationships, so we have to choose which ones we wish to develop. Sometimes we simply don't have the resources to cultivate a relationship with someone who would otherwise make a very good friend.

So, adgirl, do I think your approach is good and healthy? It looks to me like the answer is probably "yes".

Like you, I pray that God will show me what He wants me to do with regard to my present and future relationships. And as I try to remain open to His leading, I am in the meantime very grateful that I have been given the opportunity of being a positive influence in the life of the woman who has all inadvertently captured my heart. (If God has someone else in mind for me, I'm afraid He's going to have to go fetch my heart back. No worries: I'm confident that He knows what to do and has the power to do it.)

The Ugly Truth,
You said And no matter what happens, the guy you're seeing is sure to appreciate what you're doing and to think more of you because of it.

I think you are right, because he told me a couple of weeks ago that he has NO doubt that all I care about is that he is happy - that I have no hidden agenda. Of course a selfish part of me wants him to want me and to fall in love with me, because love is what most people desire, right- but if it truly isn't God's will for me or for him then I want us to know and to go our separate ways, grateful for the time and opportunities we did have. It will never work if it was any other way and I don't want to settle again.

Gnome De Plume,
You said Like you, I pray that God will show me what He wants me to do with regard to my present and future relationships. And as I try to remain open to His leading, I am in the meantime very grateful that I have been given the opportunity of being a positive influence in the life of the woman who has all inadvertently captured my heart. (If God has someone else in mind for me, I'm afraid He's going to have to go fetch my heart back. No worries: I'm confident that He knows what to do and has the power to do it.)

If anything, this man and I have been positive influences in each other's life. I don't think I ever dated anyone before where I could truly say that we both contributed to each other's well being. That sounds pretty bad, but I dated several men in college and I dated a lot of men who were completely wrong for me. So either I was not a positive influence, or they were not. And I am not sure I even cared then. Not like I do now. I don't think I 'got it'. Now, I feel great about making a difference in his life, and I feel great about TAKING the good things that he has brought out in me, and applying that to my life. He has made me more active and not want to be so lazy- he has helped to motivate me again- and at the same time, I have helped him through my whole ordeal, because he is amazed at how I am still standing through it all, stronger than ever, and he has had difficulty with conflicts in past relationships. He is more anal, I am more loose. Yet all in all, we are very much alike- eharmony would not have matched us if we weren't.
But for now, I am enjoying a great friendship, and seeing where it is meant to go. The journey, not the destination, is the fun part right?

Gnome,

I may be able to provide some insight on the situation about not being friends with someone anymore.

The stronger the feelings that one party has, I think, the more difficult to carry on a platonic friendship as it was before. Also, some people don't get the message and try to worm their way into a romantic relationship, even though the other party may not be interested.

It's not that there is dislike or animosity, it is that the situation has been made so awkward that the relationship loses a lot of the positive aspects.

JMHO

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hoping4best:
<strong>Gnome,

I may be able to provide some insight on the situation about not being friends with someone anymore.

The stronger the feelings that one party has, I think, the more difficult to carry on a platonic friendship as it was before. Also, some people don't get the message and try to worm their way into a romantic relationship, even though the other party may not be interested.

It's not that there is dislike or animosity, it is that the situation has been made so awkward that the relationship loses a lot of the positive aspects.

JMHO</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I continued having romantic feelings for this person and he continued having friendship feelings, and my romantic feelings got too strong to where I knew I was hurting the friendship or hurting myself by getting my heart torn in two, I would end the friendship. But if a friendship is what is needed now then I don't know why a friendship could not eventually turn into romance, or eventually both would agree to remain friends. I am not just being this person's "friend" - I am wanting to get to know him more and furthur explore common interests to see if he would be an ideal romantic partner or just a friend.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hoping4best:
<strong>The stronger the feelings that one party has, I think, the more difficult to carry on a platonic friendship as it was before. Also, some people don't get the message and try to worm their way into a romantic relationship, even though the other party may not be interested.

It's not that there is dislike or animosity, it is that the situation has been made so awkward that the relationship loses a lot of the positive aspects.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hear you. Sometimes I forget that not everyone has the level of patience and self-control that I do. (This is not a boast, just an observation about a character/personality trait.) And I am so accustomed to high levels of frustration that I can barely imagine not being frustrated; so I tend to view my frustration more as a fixed overhead cost than as a cost of the relationship. I recognize that that's probably not a healthy way of looking at things, but...

But I still think some relationships are worth it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adgirl48:
<strong>If I continued having romantic feelings for this person and he continued having friendship feelings, and my romantic feelings got too strong to where I knew I was hurting the friendship or hurting myself by getting my heart torn in two, I would end the friendship. But if a friendship is what is needed now then I don't know why a friendship could not eventually turn into romance, or eventually both would agree to remain friends. I am not just being this person's "friend" - I am wanting to get to know him more and furthur explore common interests to see if he would be an ideal romantic partner or just a friend.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't find anything bad about this approach, although of course I'm biased. I keep asking God to move my heart in the direction it needs to go...

I can't find anything bad about this approach, although of course I'm biased. I keep asking God to move my heart in the direction it needs to go...

I ask Him to show me how this person fits in my life or in what aspect. Maybe I should ask about the heart moving!!

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

Gnome De Plume,
You said on the Dating ?'s thread:
Yes, there are a couple of ways in which my friendship is potentially holding me back. First, there's the time investment. But, I haven't met any other woman with whom I want to build a relationship. (Or rather, I haven't met any other single women. Most of my friendships are with married couples. So, I actually do spend time building relationships with other women.) If I do meet another single woman who interests me, then I will have to think about re-prioritizing; but in the meantime the only other thing I could do would be to pro-actively look for a potential mate, either by moving into new social circles (at the expense of the ones I currently enjoy and value), or by using a service such as eHarmony. (Although I haven't paid them anything, I did fill out their personality profile, and they found three potential matches for me. I was not impressed with their personality evaluation, and I have not been able to develop any desire to communicate with the women they identified.)

I was just wondering if you would mind telling me- are you and this woman that you care about JUST friends right now? If you are JUST friends, then in what capacity? You go out but don't have any physical relationship (and i am not just talking about sex, but about kissing and stuff too) but you like her and she has stolen your heart, or you are friends with some of the physical involved, or you are dating? I know those are highly personal questions so don't answer if you don't want to- but I am wondering because of something that happened last night. To make a long story short, my 'friend' that I have been seeing and I went to a concert last night and 2 other girls went with us. One girl teaches with him and the other girl was her friend. So I had never met these 2 girls and he did not know the other girl. Well the other girl after about 5 minutes of getting to know us, asked us how long we had been dating. Very forward question and very awkward question, considering everything he and I have discussed. We both kind of laughed nervously (in hindsight I wish one of us had just said a couple of months) and then I told him I would let him have that one- and he kind of laughed and said well we are really just trying to do the friend thing. Well for some reason the way he said it to this stranger bothered me. It also bothered me because it was with 2 girls that we were with- which I thought was odd- until I realized that these girls are very young (I am young- I am 26 but divorce, infidelity, and pornography addiction situations really age you- wouldn't you agree? These girls are 22 and fresh out of college with no life experience- the male friend of mine is 31) and that he obviously had no interest in them. But anyway, he says this and then immediately I can tell he regrets it. When we get alone he apologizes and says he didn't know how to react or what to say. I get upset (This is an EXTRA emotional time for me- this week my ex-s baby was due, a year ago d-day was Wed, and the OW's birthday is next week- my mom also found out she has to have carpal tunnel surgery and she may have glaucoma- so I am already a wreck emotionally) and he says oh no, please don't be sad, i didn't mean to hurt your feelings- all that. I get past it while we are with these girls, then we walk back to the car and he asks me if I am mad, and I just start talking. Rambling. Making no sense to even myself. He says he just thought we decided we would be friends until we both spent some time healing from our past relationships, and then go from there. And I guess we did but it hurt me to hear him say that to those girls. Is this stupid? After the concert he asked me if he should go home and I said no- he spends the night on my couch whenever we go out late because he lives 40 minutes away. I just told him after I quit rambling that I just really think a lot of baggage from my ex cropped up because of the week, and because I felt like when he told those girls what he did, that he was ashamed to be with me or was not physically attracted to me. He was floored and said, no, and said he didn't understand why I would think that when he is always wanting to go do things with me, and me meet his friends and all. Again, I think this is baggage I am carrying- due to my ex looking at me and saying he has no physical attraction to me any longer and has no feelings for me. This is not fair to bring onto another person, and I realize that. I apologized this morning and he actually seemed to understand and said that he was sorry for hurting me. Everything seems to be ok now but I think I am more torn than I thought. Like Hoping 4 best said, sometimes feelings get in the way. Then again, I would rather this person be happy and let him feel what he wants to feel then push any issue. And I like spending time with him regardless. We don't kiss or hold hands anymore but he hugs me bye - sometimes that bothers me because I like to kiss =). But again, I don't want to push, and they say the greatest relationships can start out as friends. I think my main fear- is that I don't want to be 6 months into this friendship and develop feelings that he doesn't. But then again, how can any relationship or rejection be any worse than what I have gone through!! He has said before that maybe we are like When Harry Met Sally- it just has to be the right time.
OK sorry this is so long. Any advice, thoughts?

This article was just posted on msnbc.com yesterday...hope many of you find it helpful, I thought he gave a lot of good advice:

By Al Cooper, Ph.D.
MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR
Aug. 21 — In this week’s Sexploration column, sex therapist Al Cooper, Ph.D., the clinical director of the San Jose Marital and Sexuality Centre, offers dating advice to a recently divorced 60-year-old man whose ex-wife left him for a younger guy.

Question: I am a 60-year-old man who is recently divorced. My ex-wife left me after three decades of marriage for a younger man. I am devastated, but family and friends tell me I have to help myself and get on with my life. I have not dated for years and wonder how I might start. I also am very nervous about having sex with someone new. What should I do?

Answer: This is undoubtedly an extremely difficult time in your life. Family and friends can be supportive and well meaning but often give advice that is conflicting and confusing, sometimes unwelcome and rarely objective.
It might help you to know that your situation is fairly common. In our society half of all marriages end in divorce, and this major life event has been extensively studied. It is a process with fairly predictable stages. There is no need for you to discover the road map through this event on your own or to use trial and error. Help is available and by writing to us, you demonstrate that you are resourceful and smart enough to take advantage of what help is out there for you.

Help comes in many forms: friends and family, religious organizations, self-help groups and books on the topic. If none of these works as well as you would like, you can always find a therapist. This is a tough time and it’s important to talk about it.

FORGET YOUR OLD DATING HABITS
Keep in mind that when people become single later in life, the model they carry with them for dating is often an adolescent one. You need to trade that in for a more contemporary model — one that reflects your adult experiences.

Think about dating as trying to find a good book to read. You go to the book store, look at a lot of covers and reject them for one reason or another, and then, finally one looks good to you, so you take it home and read the story. Some stories you like and others you don’t. The worst that can happen is you read a story you do not particularly like.

When you date, if you focus on hearing someone’s story rather than having a “do or die” challenge to find “Ms. Right,” you will have an easier time. It is not the end of the world if you don’t like someone or they don’t like you.
Because your ex-wife rejected you, that does not mean that all other women will. Now, if there were some specific reasons that she was dissatisfied with you, it is worth paying attention to them. It doesn’t mean that she did not have her issues as well. But let’s face it, you might benefit from her feedback. Not for her sake but for yours.
We all can get set in our ways as we become older but this crisis has given you an opportunity to work on changing some well-established relationship patterns. Having a new person without all the baggage will be a help to you. So realize that there may be some things for you to work on and ways to improve, but don’t devalue yourself.

COMPANION CRITERIA
At age 60, you have the advantage of knowing more about life, people, relationships and, most importantly, yourself than when you were younger. So before you start dating, think through what you would like in a companion, what your criteria for a partner should be.
Write it all down. Here are some factors to consider:
What age range would you be comfortable with?
Could you tolerate children at home?
Would you like someone who has a career or a good job?
What interests would be important to you? Can you give up your season hockey tickets or go with a buddy if she hates the game?
Do you care if she is short/tall? Thin/plump? Loud/quiet? Democrat/Republican? Religious? Vegetarian?
Conscious choices will help you feel more confident and in control of the situation. Don’t compromise your needs and choices once you have thought it all through. If you sweep traits you do not like under the rug, pretty soon you will trip over them!

LISTEN CAREFULLY
Once you have decided to have a date with someone, conversation should be easy: Ask her to talk about herself and then sit back. But do listen carefully. Especially listen for emotional baggage you might not want to be saddled with. Another red flag is if she never asks you a question about yourself.

Easy communication with plenty of give and take should be a bottom line in any relationship. Although you sound as if the divorce is still fresh and you are hurting, it is wise to not take these dates as an opportunity to “unload” about your divorce and ex. Women do like a sensitive man but no one wants to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. That is why you have friends or are paying a therapist.
Similar to a job interview, start with your strengths first and save the shortcomings for later. But do not spend the whole evening selling yourself. Ask your date about herself first.
Now let’s assume you are dating one or more women and they naturally become “warm for your form.” Great! You are both consenting adults, so if you are both comfortable, go for it.

In spite of popular misconceptions, sex continues to be an important dimension of a satisfying relationship way beyond 60. Assuming you never had any sexual problems with your ex-wife, you will most likely be fine. On the other hand, many newly single men do have some stage fright with a new partner. At your age, good sex is reliably predicated on a few rules of thumb: Be rested, don’t drink too much or have a full stomach, and make sure you feel emotionally safe with the person you are having sex with. This requires that you have taken the time to know the woman fairly well, feel comfortable with her and have the time and privacy to explore a physical relationship.

Sounds simple but it requires restraint on your part. Do not let your anxiety about filling the emptiness left by your first wife run the show. When anxiety drives, there are bound to be accidents.

Armed with these pointers, it’s now time for you to get back in the game! Oh, and as a final confidence booster remember, there are far more single women over 40 than there are men. Good news from a marketing point of view — you are a hot commodity.

Gale H. Golden, LCSW, BCD, a clinical associate professor of psychiatry at the University of Vermont Medical College with a private practice in Burlington, Vt., contributed to this column.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adgirl48:
<strong>I was just wondering if you would mind telling me- are you and this woman that you care about JUST friends right now? If you are JUST friends, then in what capacity? You go out but don't have any physical relationship (and i am not just talking about sex, but about kissing and stuff too) but you like her and she has stolen your heart, or you are friends with some of the physical involved, or you are dating?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We have never dated, and in fact this woman goes to sometimes amusing lengths to avoid the appearance of dating. (I am by no means the only guy who has been interested in her, and she has been able to stave off all overtures by bluntly communicating that she is not interested in dating anyone at this time. So you can imagine what might happen if word got out that she seemed to be dating again: every guy around would probably be pursuing her...) We've done group things, and we have talked one-on-one a number of times. There is nothing physical involved, and in fact she hasn't given me a hug since I let her know about my feelings.

I should probably add here that since I believe sex is supposed to be reserved for marriage, and since I therefore don't see any good coming from doing things that are likely to stir up sexual feelings, I lean against even kissing until marriage is at least an area of serious mutual consideration. I would have no problem with hugs, but I admire my lady friend's prudence in refraining.

With respect to how much I like her, I can not imagine a greater privilege or blessing than marrying her. That doesn't mean marrying her would be the best thing for her or even for me, of course. God's imagination is far greater than mine, and He has much more complete knowledge than I do. I trust Him to choose the best and wisest course, and I take great comfort in knowing that both myself and my lady friend are seeking God's will foremost. As long as that's true, we can hardly go wrong.

Still, I can't help hoping...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I told him I would let him have that one- and he kind of laughed and said well we are really just trying to do the friend thing. Well for some reason the way he said it to this stranger bothered me. It also bothered me because it was with 2 girls that we were with- which I thought was odd- until I realized that these girls are very young... But anyway, he says this and then immediately I can tell he regrets it. When we get alone he apologizes and says he didn't know how to react or what to say. I get upset...and he says oh no, please don't be sad, i didn't mean to hurt your feelings- all that. I get past it while we are with these girls, then we walk back to the car and he asks me if I am mad, and I just start talking. Rambling. Making no sense to even myself. He says he just thought we decided we would be friends until we both spent some time healing from our past relationships, and then go from there. And I guess we did but it hurt me to hear him say that to those girls. Is this stupid? ...After the concert he asked me if he should go home and I said no- he spends the night on my couch whenever we go out late because he lives 40 minutes away. I just told him after I quit rambling that I just really think a lot of baggage from my ex cropped up because of the week, and because I felt like when he told those girls what he did, that he was ashamed to be with me or was not physically attracted to me. He was floored and said, no, and said he didn't understand why I would think that when he is always wanting to go do things with me, and me meet his friends and all. Again, I think this is baggage I am carrying- due to my ex looking at me and saying he has no physical attraction to me any longer and has no feelings for me. This is not fair to bring onto another person, and I realize that. I apologized this morning and he actually seemed to understand and said that he was sorry for hurting me. Everything seems to be ok now but I think I am more torn than I thought.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow. Lots going on here...

I have to admit that I don't understand why your friend's answer bothered you. From everything you have described, it sounds honest. I also don't know why your friend regretted his answer. Was it because he could see that it bothered you, or for some other reason?

Perhaps you were bothered by his answer because you didn't want it to be true and are still somewhat in denial? Or perhaps it isn't really true? You say your friend said "he just thought we decided we would be friends until we both spent some time healing from our past relationships, and then go from there." That doesn't really sound like "Let's just be friends." It sounds more like "Let's take it slow." Likewise with the talk about whether he is physically attracted to you.

So maybe the nature of your relationship isn't really that well defined. And maybe it doesn't matter. I reckon the important thing is that you continue to communicate your feelings and intentions. It's good that you recognize your feelings aren't necessarily about what's happening in the here-and-now between the two of you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>He says he just thought we decided we would be friends until we both spent some time healing from our past relationships, and then go from there. And I guess we did but it hurt me to hear him say that to those girls. Is this stupid?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of my favorite quotes is "Feelings are to be taken seriously, but not literally." There is nothing "stupid" about a feeling. We always have reasons for our feelings. It's just that those reasons aren't always about what they seem to be about.

Fortunately, you appear to be aware of this already, but I just wanted to emphasize that it isn't "stupid" to feel hurt, as long as you are careful not to blame someone for inflicting pain that was not really that person's fault.

I should probably add here that since I believe sex is supposed to be reserved for marriage, and since I therefore don't see any good coming from doing things that are likely to stir up sexual feelings, I lean against even kissing until marriage is at least an area of serious mutual consideration. I would have no problem with hugs, but I admire my lady friend's prudence in refraining.

I don't want to have sex again until I get married. However, it is a struggle with me, especially because I sometimes mistake intimacy as associated with sex or affection. I think this is due to the fact that almost every guy I dated in college wanted to have sex and would make me feel guilty for not doing it, or because I did end up having sex with my ex so early. I think I got the impression that since sexual fulfillment was so important to most men, that is how I should show intimacy. So it is hard not to do it, plus that I like sex!!! BUT I know that it should be saved for marriage, I just like to be kissed and held. But in the same aspect, I am finding it kind of cool that I can relax and know this guy just enjoys spending time with me, without that having to get in the way.

With respect to how much I like her, I can not imagine a greater privilege or blessing than marrying her. That doesn't mean marrying her would be the best thing for her or even for me, of course. God's imagination is far greater than mine, and He has much more complete knowledge than I do. I trust Him to choose the best and wisest course, and I take great comfort in knowing that both myself and my lady friend are seeking God's will foremost. As long as that's true, we can hardly go wrong.
I know that this is true, which is something I have changed about my life. I do know that God's will is the best for me, so there is no use for me to keep trying to change the course of my life. I only screw it up. That is why I am trying to chill and let go.

I have to admit that I don't understand why your friend's answer bothered you. From everything you have described, it sounds honest. I also don't know why your friend regretted his answer. Was it because he could see that it bothered you, or for some other reason? ?

I am wondering that myself. I think it is because he knows how much I have been hurt, and doesn't want to add to it. He has also been hurt (who hasn't really) and is a sensitive enough man to not want that pain for either of us.

Perhaps you were bothered by his answer because you didn't want it to be true and are still somewhat in denial? Or perhaps it isn't really true? You say your friend said "he just thought we decided we would be friends until we both spent some time healing from our past relationships, and then go from there." That doesn't really sound like "Let's just be friends." It sounds more like "Let's take it slow." Likewise with the talk about whether he is physically attracted to you.

I think I was in denial and it hit me square in the eye. I think it also bothered me because it was 2 girls he was telling- I had wondered if he was interested in one of the girls because she works with him. I actually blurted that out in my ramblings and he clarified that no, he was not attracted to her and that she was very young and not his type.
I think you are right about the let's take it slow too. He had said before when he said he wanted to be friends, that he really didn't like that word because it sounded like a copout or a breakup speech, and he didn't mean for it to be. That is probably partly why it bothered me to hear him say "friends" to those girls.

So maybe the nature of your relationship isn't really that well defined. And maybe it doesn't matter. I reckon the important thing is that you continue to communicate your feelings and intentions. It's good that you recognize your feelings aren't necessarily about what's happening in the here-and-now between the two of you.
I felt like it wasn't well defined, but it didn't occur to me until all of this happened and you said it too, that it doesn't matter. I am always wanting answers for things- maybe those answers are not always available to me right away. I also definitely got hit last night, more than at anytime, that I am REALLY needing more time to heal than I thought. I only knew 2 months ago that my ex was a pornography addict, and it is a lot to cope with- knowing all those times I felt something was wrong and didn't know what- that that was it. I think I tried to sweep that under the rug and move on, when I really need to face it and heal from it first. When I talked to my friend tonight, I told him that I felt bad for getting upset last night, and possibly hurting him, but that at the same time, I think it woke me up to my reality and that I had some things to deal with that were going to take time. He told me that he really felt in his heart that I needed that time and needed to be able to focus only on me for a while, without having to worry about relationships. That getting to know myself, as corny as it sounded, was something I should enjoy and think of as a privilege, and that he just wanted to be my friend through that time and do things together without the pressure. This made me feel much better.

One of my favorite quotes is "Feelings are to be taken seriously, but not literally." There is nothing "stupid" about a feeling. We always have reasons for our feelings. It's just that those reasons aren't always about what they seem to be about.
They rarely are about what they seem to be. That is why they get so confusing. Feelings may not be stupid, but they aren't a good judge of reality sometimes.

Fortunately, you appear to be aware of this already, but I just wanted to emphasize that it isn't "stupid" to feel hurt, as long as you are careful not to blame someone for inflicting pain that was not really that person's fault. Funny you said that, because in the midst of my rambling last night, I started laughing, which of course confused my friend. He asked what was funny, and I said "well, I just yelled at you and went on and on about I don't know what, when most of it is really nothing about you, and you really aren't the person I should be taking it out on." I told him that I didn't think it was a good idea or very fair to use old baggage to heap on someone else to use against them, and he said yeh, that isn't legal. That isn't allowed!! It just took me a while to realize I was doing it.

so if you are 'just friends' with someone of the opposite sex, that means it is ok to venture out and date right? I am not really wanting to look to date others, but sometimes I wonder if I should. This friend of mine even suggested it a couple of times but then of course we both get confused because we say we won't be jealous, then we say we might be after all. And this friend calls me almost daily and I see him several times a week. But if we are just friends, then it should be ok right? He has said before that he wants to make sure I don't leap into anything too quickly without dating others and exploring what else I might really want. I don't want to date just to date....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by adgirl48:
<strong>so if you are 'just friends' with someone of the opposite sex, that means it is ok to venture out and date right? I am not really wanting to look to date others, but sometimes I wonder if I should.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've wondered the same thing. Should I force myself to do date other women, in an effort to prevent myself from getting too narrowly focused on my lady friend? Or would that be unfair to the other women I might date, considering how interested I am in someone else?

What I am doing is trying to keep my eyes and mind open, and if I do happen to run across a woman who I think I might like to get to know better, I just may ask her out, despite my reservations about the whole dating process. Who knows what might happen? Since I have absolutely no reason to conclude that I'm ever going to get romantically involved with my lady friend, I have no compunctions whatsoever about exploring other options.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>This friend of mine even suggested it a couple of times but then of course we both get confused because we say we won't be jealous, then we say we might be after all. And this friend calls me almost daily and I see him several times a week. But if we are just friends, then it should be ok right?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well...your situation is a bit different from mine, I think. Your friend may say he just wants to be friends, but he isn't really acting like it. He's acting more like someone who wants (or thinks he might want) to be more than friends, but is afraid of that.

Both of you seem pretty confused about your relationship, and I have no idea what effect dating other people might have, either positive or negative. Is it "OK" to do it? Yeah, morally speaking, I think so. Is it a good idea or a bad idea? I have no clue.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>He has said before that he wants to make sure I don't leap into anything too quickly without dating others and exploring what else I might really want.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds a lot like "fog talk" to me. He is trying to justify his own choice to keep his emotional distance by finding a way to maintain that his choice is good for you. Is his advice nonetheless valid? Perhaps. But it's your decision and your responsibility to figure out not just what you really want but also how you make that determination.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I don't want to date just to date....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah. My own personal opinion is that that's a dumb idea...

I've wondered the same thing. Should I force myself to do date other women, in an effort to prevent myself from getting too narrowly focused on my lady friend? Or would that be unfair to the other women I might date, considering how interested I am in someone else?


I don't want to force myself but I don't want to not venture out and then wonder if someone else was out there. At the same time, I don't want to be unfair to someone else. I truly feel though, if i am seeking God's will, he will bring me back to my 'friend' if that is what is meant to be. I don't think me going out with others would keep me from having him in my life, if that is where he is supposed to be.

Well...your situation is a bit different from mine, I think. Your friend may say he just wants to be friends, but he isn't really acting like it. He's acting more like someone who wants (or thinks he might want) to be more than friends, but is afraid of that.

Sounds a lot like "fog talk" to me. He is trying to justify his own choice to keep his emotional distance by finding a way to maintain that his choice is good for you. Is his advice nonetheless valid? Perhaps. But it's your decision and your responsibility to figure out not just what you really want but also how you make that determination.


hahaha. I am laughing because I told him when he brought up my divorce, that he was the one that was so unsure. He was the one that had the issues and he was the one who was scared of getting hurt, yet was trying to put all of that on me. I told him that before we met in person he wanted to take care of me, and be in a relationship with me, and date exclusively. Then we met and he got scared because I was a real person, and not just behind the computer and he was 31 and had never been married so this relationship thing scared him. Either that or he thought I was ugly (doubtful on that one- he has repeatedly told me I am very attractive, and that he wouldn't want to introduce me to all his friends if he thought otherwise). His last relationship was long distance, so he hasn't had to deal with dating someone and having them in the same town for a long time. And this last girl really did a number on him.

I think I am going to just chill and honor what he wants (friends) while letting him make the moves, such as calling or going out or emailing. It seems to work out best that way, and I am ok with it for now. I have a friend who wants me to go on this speed date thing 9/12...I felt kind of funny about it (You meet a bunch of guys and talk to each for 5 minutes, then you can talk for about 2 hours with everyone and then decide who you are interested in and get their email addresses), but then I wondered if maybe it would be something good to venture out on. To take my mind off my friend, at least for a bit, and also to do as he suggested and meet other guys. I signed up for it today but I can cancel up until 9/4...So I have some time to think about it.

My friend came over last night and we started acting more like we were dating again!?!? We watched TV and ate a pizza and he kind of initiated kissing.....I am kind of confused (of course) but I think I will let it ride and just not worry about it. Go with the flow. I have such a good time with him and I don't want him to feel rushed or anything, and I think just enjoying my time with him and keeping it light might be the best thing. keepmvn4ward was right on that aspect I think.

Well I haven't posted on this thread in a while so I am reviving it. I went to the speed dating thing Friday night. I don't know if anyone has been to one of these but they are very interesting. I met 15 guys and talked to each for about 5 minutes. I was immediately not interested in several of them- I don't want to sound shallow but I guess I realized physical attraction is important to me. But so is personality and some guys didn't have personality either. I did like 3 guys pretty well. When you get through you put your email address in their envelopes and they in yours if they are interested. I put mine in 4 people's and I got 11 in mine. Which was EXTREMELY flattering. I know I am not ugly but I do have some hangups after my ex-s affair- and really, I guess I have always had hangups about being pretty enough or smart enough or fun enough. If anything, I had a really good time. The guy I was most interested in getting to know, has already emailed me so that is cool. I also told the guy I have been "seeing" but I am "just friends" with right now, and he was very encouraging about it. I didn't tell him until today and he was just asking me questions and I think he was happy for me that I got out. He had commented several times that he has had the opportunities to date several women and he just didn't want me to be cheated out of dating several men and making sure I am really exploring my options. I finally feel pretty good about this and feel good that he cares enough about my well-being. I really like him for that (my "just friends" guy). Anyways, I guess my point is that it is most important to love yourself, and if you are like me, to know that God loves you, but then it is also nice to see someone else appreciate you- it was fun to meet new men who actually find me attractive or fun........And best of all, I know I am healing, because I really didn't think about my ex-h at all while I was there.