I once read a book and it stated that one of the hardest things in the world is when your divorced x-spouse passes away. Do you attend the funeral, etc. etc? It makes you think. I would. But, there's a lot of stuff leading up to that right? People don't usually, but sometimes they do I guess, just all of a sudden pass away.

I find myself wondering about lingering stuff. Friends and being friends can also mean being supportive. I've known my x through a lot of great times and then there's been a lot of crap at the end punctuated by some really good connections as well. I know all the crap about her and suspect so much more. There's still a knife stuck in my back... but part of being me, for me, is that I don't abandon committed loyalties very easily.

She might be having the problems she says she is. I don't know. It might all be manipulation to try and guilt me into something - maybe just feeling guilty! I don't know. But, her response indicated some medical irregularities that could be indicative of cervical cancer. Then, she's also very depressed... because of this, because another lover dumped her, because she's getting dumped right and left, because her life is a shadow of what it had been, because of whatever. I find it hard to brush this aside even with all the telltale signs because I wonder - WHAT IF.

If we're supposed to love our enemies... and bless those who do spitefully use us... and I already know all the crap about her, I wonder if I couldn't be an amazing friend. Granted, there's not much there for me... but are we only friends with people who GIVE us something in return?

but are we only friends with people who GIVE us something in return?

sufdb...yes, for two reasons.

1. If you recieve nothing in return it is not a freindship it is a sacrificial relationship, such breeds resentment. One should ask themself why they are attracted to sacrificial circumstances (it is not uncommon, and the root cause of a substantial % of dysfunctional marriages/co-dependentcies). Some choose sacrificial behaviour because it is safe, expect nothing and you cannot be hurt....but you end up hurt anyways, emotionally malnourished.

2. Because you then shortchange the people in your life who are good to you. By vesting your resources in someone who returns little or nothing, you have less to give others and nothing to show for it. All of us have a limited supply of time and emotional energy, by giving AND recieveing we stay in balance (and contribute to the balance of our friends/families). Ask yourself while you are being a great friend to someone who returns little, who else in your life are you shortchanging, someone who is probably good to you?

Takers need to be isolated, it is nothing but a strategy to benefit at others expense. The only way they will ever change (and most won't, cause there are lots of confused givers to prey on), is to reap the consequences of taking, which is isolation. Resucers have such a hard time with this, they think if they just give of themselves enought they will "heal" this troubled soul. Instead the opposite occurs, they enable and validate the taker. The problem is not the taker, they have an effective and proven strategy...the problem is the resucer who is essentially a dysfunctional giver who does not understand nor apply boundaries, and mistakes the attentions of the takers they attract as love and committment, then wonders why they got stabbed in the back when it suited the taker to do so (takers always do what they want). We have a name for takers, narcissists, and they are unsafe people.

A friendship is no different than marriage (just no sex). It is an exchange of giving and taking to the degree of depth one wants from that friendship....when the giving/taking is out of balance it is not a healthy place and should end. All of the same general rules apply, honesty, mutual meeting of EN's, protection etc. Likewise if things are not working right, one should tell their friend and see if it can be fixed, or end the relationship. Dito with family members, co-workers, neighbors, pretty much all relationships. Why vest resources in something that is one-sided? An ex-spouse relationship is simply another kind of relationship. Ex-spouses oftentimes can be good friends (sharing a mutual history, kids together, good people etc.), they just cannot go any further, marriage and those emotional/psychological requirements just don't work, so the boundary has to be as ex-spouses. Frankly I think when exspouses cannot be good friends, how in the world could either think marriage would work, or be surprised it failed. They shouldn't have been married in the first place.

Most of the successful recoveries I have read here have a basis in a return to genuine freindship (after the turmoil of marital crisis has subsided). If you cannot get along/respect/enjoy friendship with someone in seperation or as an ex-spouse, there would seem to be nothing healthy about marriage to each other, or any reason to continue trying to have a friendship. Ex-spouses need to practice the same relationship skills as other kinds of freindships...no LB'ing, meeting needs, respectful behaviour etc. Otherwise it should be no surprise the relationship ends alltogether, or just morphs into a co-dependent friendship.

<small>[ August 20, 2003, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

If we're supposed to love our enemies... and bless those who do spitefully use us... and I already know all the crap about her, I wonder if I couldn't be an amazing friend. Granted, there's not much there for me... but are we only friends with people who GIVE us something in return?

There's a lot of depth to that question, I have to think you are coming along well. Do you feel like it too, or is it just me that thinks you are?

SS

<small>[ August 21, 2003, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

To me, this has everything to do with the extent of hurt feelings during the break-up, the extent of the "friendship" aspect of the relationship while you were married, and how much you both *want* to maintain a civil relationship and/or friendship when the marriage ends.

I am here to say that you *can* be friendly, and even FRIENDS after the divorce, if that's what you both want.

My ex and I *are indeed* friends, and I attribute that to BOTH of us trying very, very hard to remember who we are, at our core (good people), and to treat each other with love and respect -- no matter what happened in our marriage.

This is not about 'getting back together' (clearly, especially since I am remarried to someone else), nor is it about doing "what is right" or "what's best for the children" (since they're all adults)... and I find it hard to put a label on it... we *shouldn't* be friends, given what we both did to each other, but heck, we **like** eachother, and even though we could not save our marriage, it doesn't mean we stopped caring. But hey, that's us, and it seems to work. I will add that our kids DO appreciate it, and have told us so. Nice bonus, and worth the effort.