so, Chris, Jim should live a lonely unfullfilled life because his country requires a 1 year waiting period.

I don't understand how you feel it is wrong to date after a reasonable attempt to reconcile the marriage. Why does a Judge signing his name to a piece of paper make all of the difference. If they have not been living as husband and wife for over a year than the marriage is no longer anyway.

Jill

Chris......to answer your questions........look at jillybean36 post. Im all about marriage, I love being married.....but, can only tolerate so much. niceguyjims wife had her time, went over the line, and her time has run out. We should be happy for niceguyjim that he is able to find peace in his life and move on. Its NOT like he didnt try and keep his marriage together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Can't help it - I just have to ask, if he is convinced that what he is doing is right, that God has brought him this girlfriend, and he is now free to divorce his wife, why is he still coming here? I am not trying to attack, just understand.
I guess the comment he makes that God has brought his girlfriend into his life strikes home with me - since that is what my WH says about the woman he is dating.

Many people are here in different stages of divorce. I'm sure Jim is just here to get some of his questions asked answered by people who have been where he is now.

Chris,

Unfortunately I believe you're wasting your time on StartinOver and jillybean. Even though this thread isn't about them and our replies were based on the following quote from niceguy...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would welcome any opinions or questions some of you may have.

Yours in Christ</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Niceguy has been given opinions with scripture to back them up; because we thought he may have been looking for Christian input, based on his closing line.

Evidently he wasn't really looking for Biblical truth, because he was going to defend his decision anyway.

As for the others that have supported his decision, none of them have supported it with reliable scripture, if any at all. They have come to the conclusion that it's ok to just pick and choose what they want from the Bible. As far as I'm concerned that is ok with me.

Just like God force won't a person to follow His will; we cannot force someone follow it either (as difficult as that is to accept).

So unless niceguy wants to respond to the scripture that was presented to him, I doubt it would be of any benefit to anyone else to continue. StartinOver seems to be wrestling with this one himself for some reason and jillybean doesn't seem to understand about the relationship with our creator that is so real and involves every area of our lives that we can't help but put everything that comes our way through that relationship's filter. Maybe someday they will.

Keep your head up Chris. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

S&C

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: steadfast and committed ]</small>

steadfast and committed,
For starters my name is Jill not Jellybean. I took what you just wrote as a slam and I guess in my point of view not very Christian of you.

I know my Bible and my God. I have my own beliefs and you have yours lets leave it at that.

Jill,

I am so very sorry for my typo. I miss read it and I sincerely apologize. Please accept my apology. And my post was not meant to slam anyone. But to simply explain that I cannot leave God out of my M, my life or even the things I post, especially when someone asks for advice or opinions from a Christian perspective. Maybe you can. But I can't or won't. I will respect people that choose not hear from a Christian perspective and I will still pray for them.

I am curious though, aside from my typo, which part of what I wrote offended you?

S&C

niceguyjim,
sorry this thread has taken on such a tone.

I don't understand how you feel it is wrong to date after a reasonable attempt to reconcile the marriage.
Because of the marriage. If you don’t value a marriage, why do it? Also, why not get it over if you want to date?

Why does a Judge signing his name to a piece of paper make all of the difference.
Probably because you said it DID matter when you got married.
Why does it make all the difference at the beginning of a marriage?

They have come to the conclusion that it's ok to just pick and choose what they want from the Bible.
Make you life fit the bible, don’t make the bible fit your life.
Any more posts will be on the other thread... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by steadfast and committed:
<strong>Chris,

Unfortunately I believe you're wasting your time on StartinOver and jillybean. Even though this thread isn't about them and our replies were based on the following quote from niceguy...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would welcome any opinions or questions some of you may have.

Yours in Christ</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Niceguy has been given opinions with scripture to back them up; because we thought he may have been looking for Christian input, based on his closing line.

Evidently he wasn't really looking for Biblical truth, because he was going to defend his decision anyway.

As for the others that have supported his decision, none of them have supported it with reliable scripture, if any at all. They have come to the conclusion that it's ok to just pick and choose what they want from the Bible. As far as I'm concerned that is ok with me.

Just like God force won't a person to follow His will; we cannot force someone follow it either (as difficult as that is to accept).

So unless niceguy wants to respond to the scripture that was presented to him, I doubt it would be of any benefit to anyone else to continue. StartinOver seems to be wrestling with this one himself for some reason and jillybean doesn't seem to understand about the relationship with our creator that is so real and involves every area of our lives that we can't help but put everything that comes our way through that relationship's filter. Maybe someday they will.

Keep your head up Chris. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

S&C</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ September 09, 2003, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: jillybean36 ]</small>

Steadfast,

What bothered me is when you said that I didn't understand the relationship with our creator. You are so wrong there. I am however very openminded. You see I try to use the mind that God has given me. That is what makes us different from the apes we have the ability to think and reason and choose our own way of interpeting what the bible says. I have read the bible, been confirmed, baptized twice actually, been a reborn Christian the whole nine yards.

JIll

Jim,

The issue of religion is not a big one with me. What I worry about is the baggage that is taken from one marriage to another. If a person doesn't take enought time to heal, it just carries on into any relationship he/she might have in the future.

My 1st husband was abusive. If I'd started dating soon after he left, I probably would have ended up with another man just like him. My self-esteem was at a really low point. I needed time to be happy with who I am and actually to find out who I am. But it does get lonely and it's really tempting to try and find someone to fill that void that you think is there.

If you feel that your marriage is over and your year of having to wait is over,and you can honestly say you did everything to save your marriage, file for the divorce. Then you can (as other's have put it) move on.

Good luck to you!
Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for the scriptures and opinions everyone. Maybe I should have waited to date until I was divorced. Now I'm involved with a wonderful lady who I have fallen in love with. Yes Chris, the scriptures presented here are weighing heavily on my conscious right about now. Regarding my two teenage daughters, I am spending a lot of time with them too. As for pointing fingers, right or wrong, my policy is that I never try to be the one to cast the first stone. May the Lord richly bless all of you for your passionate inputs regarding my situation.

Yours In Christ!

I didn't read everything (whew!) but womanoffaith, that's exactly what my husband said about his current fiance... God "brought" her to him. It is so easy to see God in everything "good." My husband believed God brought me to Him when we married, but once he wanted to divorce, I no longer was "God's will" or a "blessing" but a "mistake."

Our feelings do not dictate God's Word. As for those who feel it should not be spoken here... well, that is not surprising. People see God's Word as "judgemental" etc. God loves us and His Word PROTECTS us. It keeps us from lies of an enemy who wants to DESTROY us.

The enemy says... oh, it's not adultery... oh, God understands... oh, it's okay. NO, God does not "understand" us justifying our sin. Because whether or not we justify it, it is still sin. It will hurt us and/or others in our lives.

I have sought reconciliation with my husband. I did not commit one single act of adultery, either in mind or heart. I loved him and I was faithful. Yet, I feel like some of you here would applaud him for "moving on" and finding a new girlfriend. How on earth is that better than working out your conflict with the wife who before WITNESSES you said you would love "TIL DEATH??"

How quickly those vows are broken. How easily we justify the breaking of them. We blame the other person. It is no different than what Adam did with Eve. He pointed at her, "She made me do it." So we justify our own sin, saying "well, he did it first" or "if he hadn't of done it, I would't do it." It does NOT work that way!!

YES, God loves and is compassionate and understanding but He does not "understand" when we sin and then say, "Oh, well, God understands."

First, of all, where on earth does he guarantee or promise us a spouse period? Does life go on without a spouse?? Where does He promise any of us a good spouse? How many spouses must we go through on our search for our "soulmate"? Along those lines, how on earth do people find someone new when the divorce hasn't even cooled?? There is something called HEALING that needs to take place before entering any new relationship and any good psychologist or therapist would tell you that (even the non-Christian ones!). Second and third and so on marriages have EXTREMELY high divorce rates because the stuff that was wrong in the first marriage was never dealt with.

In our loneliness and loss and sorrow, we look to another man or woman to make it go away. That is why we, as Christians, talk about God. ONLY God can truly make it "go away." Only God can heal the inner wounds and sorrows. And it takes time. I have been divorced about 10 mos. now and still grieve tremendously. I have NO desire whatsoever for a new husband simply because I am still healing over my divorce. This is normal and natural. Most psychologists say it takes at least a good 2 yrs. to heal. ESPECIALLY if it's been a long marriage. MY GOODNESS! This has nothing even to do with Chrisitanity but common sense.

But, along the lines of Christianity, God hates sin because sin is not from Him and sin ultimately destroys us. It blinds us from the truth so that we do think it's okay to date while still married or okay to have sex outside of marriage. The whole reason those things are not "okay" are because they HURT us! Not because God is not undertanding or some killjoy, but because those things damage us physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

God's laws and ways protect us from that damage.

Now, as for the man who posted, it is with COMPASSION that I say that he is indeed committing adultery. It cannot be justified by his feelings that God will "understand." God will "understand" my eating 20 cupcakes every day because I am hurting and "need" to feel good, but the consequences will remain. What I am doing is not right.

Even just for the sake of this man's integrity and future. He might face deep regrets over a decision made in the midst of his hurt. He said that he wonders why his wife cant' see his change. IF my husband were dating someone while we were still married (even if I'd done the same), I really wouldn't see much "special" about that. Heck, the whole world does stuff like that. Now if my husband remained faithful to his vows, perhaps even AFTER the divorce, because of his integrity and faith... because he chose to love me and forgive me... well, that would show me some major change!

As is, this man says he has no desire to be with his wife again. I am not so sure that is true though. But what chance is there when he is dating and has become emotionally attached to another woman?

Also, why do we believe that another person and another relationship somehow takes away all the pain and heals our sorrow?? Can a person be strong, filled with joy and peace and hope and actually CHOSE to remain single?? It seems that this advice of "move on" does mean "find someone else" and why that advice is given is way beyond me! It's foolish to "move on" into another relationship until great healing has taken place. And for me, I have refused to even consider another relationship until/unless ALL efforts at reconciliation are completly taken and he has remarried. I chose to stay single as long as he remained single and there was hope... even if that meant years of singleness! Horrors!! Years of singleness?? OH NO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Sorry, I am being sarcastic, but honestly, I am amazed at how we "congratulate" others when they are in new relationships as if somehow they have arrived at the next step or something.

????

As for my faith, it is who I am. Forgive me if I speak from a Biblical viewpoint, but I cannot do otherwise. I know who God is, and I cannot separate Him from what I say. He is the author of all things. It is He who created marriage. And it is He who hates divorce. How can you talk about marriage and not talk about God?? Perhaps that might explain why so many marriages fall apart?

I have heard in here, basically, that I am a "loser" if I don't remarry. That life cannot be found in a life of singleness. That "moving on" to a new relationship is not only "deserved" but a wonderful thing. I have heard that God will "understand" because I am in pain. So, my pain then justifies my action. My mistreatment means that I "deserve" to be "happy" and of course, happinesss is only found in a new relationship.

Am I hearing all of this correctly?? And yet, I am being told to leave God out of it?? Can't you see what happens when God is left out of things? Reasoning like the above takes place and we just keep messing up our lives. No thank you!

As for, I found my "soulmate" and God brought her, yada, yada... first of all, God didn't bring any person to you when you were still married! You yourself found that person and saw her in such a way. God is not in the business of things like that. He doesn't give new spouses when you are still married to the current one... unless you are King Solomon or David back when they had more than one wife.... and I believe that back then, same thing... God wast't the one giving the multiple wives. They were getting them on thier own (i.e. David gets Bathsheba)!

<small>[ September 10, 2003, 04:15 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LoveMyEx:
<strong>God didn't bring any person to you when you were still married! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what does God bring you then??? Did he bring you that adulterer, or abuser?.....Oh, he only brings you the good, honest, caring, and loving people. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Noone can say what God can or cant do........he works in mysterious ways. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Jim,
Again, my apologies.
If you notice, there is not one of my posts where I condem you or gf or suggesting you get rid of her.
I am suggesting you think about what is going on though. (as it seems you are)

Love My EX,

Nobody is telling you that you are wrong for not going into another relationship after divorce. That is a personal choice made by you. Your decision to stay single because of what you believe God wants is also your choice. Everyone interpets the bible in their own way. Nobody is right or wrong here. That includes the believers, the non believers, the Jewish, the Hindus, the Islamics the Native Americans the list goes on and on.

StartinOver, I am sorry for your pain. I too am in pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Divorce is a very painful thing, esp. when there has been betrayal. I can see that you are hurting in your words. We have all been there too. You are not alone.

God gives us many good things. He is a father and cares for us far more than we can even imagine. But He does not go against who He is... holy and righteous. Yes, his ways are mysterious, but He would NEVER do something against His Word. God would not bring another person to someone when that person was still married.

However, He might allow a person to make that choice... to be with someone despite being married, and He might bring good out of it as well. Look at King David. He married Bathsheba, who he committed adultery with (while her husband was alive and she was married). Then, he killed her husband! But God did allow David to marry her and there is no record that they had an unloving marriage. We don't know. But, we do know that their baby died as a direct result of his sin. He plead with God for this baby's life, but it was part of the consequence of the sin. Actually, God would have taken David's life for what he did (adultery in the Old Testamnet was punishable by death) but if David had died, the ramifications would be far-reaching and severe since he was the Kind... so in his place, the baby died. Not only that, but all of David's sons turned agaisnt him and lived rebellious lives... and this also was a consequence of his sin. Can you "blame" them? Their father commits adultery and murder?

Yet, he was a man after God's heart, it says, and God did forgive him.

We, as people, are easily decieved. The Bible says that our own hearts are very "wicked." We often see things how we want to see them. It is easy to say "God did this" or "God did that" or "God brought this." Many people have believed that God brought someone to them but then, when the person is not what they want anymore, they were "mistaken."

God will not do something that is contrary to His nature. He uphold marriage and vows and commitment and faithfulness. Your former husband is responsible for his actions and choices, just as you are responsible for yours.

Our feelings do not dictate truth. Someone else said something along those lines. WE do not decide what is right or wrong. God does. He is our Creator and He makes the "rules." The "rules" are there to PROTECT us. We have a great enemy... Satan... who wants to destroy us. If we are not knowledgeable of God's Word and His laws, then we WILL be destroyed in our ignorance.

Your words sound very bitter. Perhaps you are angry with God?

God doesn't promise us perfect and pain-free lives. Many people are innocent victims of many things. We live in a sinful world. No, God did not "bring" a woman her rapist or a child her child molester or a person their murderer. No he doesn't "give" abusers and adulterers. There is sin in the world and it hurts all of us. We are also all sinners, in great need of Him, and what your husband did, any one of us is just as capable of doing.

It comes down alot to choices. God can give you a wonderful person and they could later make sinful choices, as your former husband did. God could give you a beautiful child and then that child might die. God could give you a new car and you might get in an accident and that car is the death of you.

God will NOT do anything that is not His nature and character. He is perfectly holy, righteous, good, and loving.

I personally don't believe He would "give" a married person a new spouse while they are still married. Again, I would call this adultery or polygamy. If I am wrong, I suppose God will show me either here or in heaven. I have made choices for my own life and don't expect anyone else to make them. We are each responsible for our own choices.

If you truly believe God gave you a person while still married, then your conscience will be clear and you will be at peace knowing that it was God's will. So, be at peace and if someone else believes it is wrong, your peace from your conviction should keep you from feeling defensive. When we know we have done what is right and holy, then people's judgements don't affect our peace of mind that comes from being in God's will and having obeyed Him.

Hope that makes sense. God bless.

p.s. I do believe there might be a person in someone's life while they are married who later becomes that married person's spouse. But I think that if they "date" while the spouse is still married.. well, how is that any different than the other spouse's adultery?

If it is okay for you to have a boyfriend while still married, then isn't it also okay for your husband to have a girlfriend while you are married? Does it matter who gets the boyfriend or girlfriend first?

The law considers couples married until an official divorce decree is final. Even if you feel you are "divorced" in heart, etc... the law will not agree. They will still consider you married. We are to obey the law. IF you date while still legally married, then in essence, you have both a spouse and a boyfriend or girlfriend. Again, I ask... can you marry that boyfriend/girlfriend before your divorce is final? No... you'd be a polygamist. You are married until the divorce is final. If it weren't so, then you could freely marry your girlfriend/boyfriend before the divorce is final.