I have been hopeful for a year. I know many here have endured much more pain and for much longer than I have. But WW account in my LB has been overdrawn for some time now.

When it was just one OM I felt like all of you do who have WS's but now it is man after man. She was always a flirt, but now she seems to be quite comfortable doing serveral men, one is married. She is out every night all night. I know I should not have checked on Plan B. But I had to know just how bad it was. It is worse than I ever imagined.

Something is wrong with her. I think it is time I let go. I tried everything I could think of (albeit not as long as some of you). I just don't think I could ever love what I would be getting back if she returned. I have forgiven her in my heart and I feel at peace, yet a little sad how things turned out.

I'll continue on the boards here, but not for the same reason. I would have fought and stood if I thought she was worth it. She had cheapened herself so much in my eyes, her family, my family and my D. Our friends don't accept her either as she is now. It is more than the FOG I feel.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Firebird:
<strong> I have been hopeful for a year. I know many here have endured much more pain and for much longer than I have. But WW account in my LB has been overdrawn for some time now.

When it was just one OM I felt like all of you do who have WS's but now it is man after man. She was always a flirt, but now she seems to be quite comfortable doing serveral men, one is married. She is out every night all night. I know I should not have checked on Plan B. But I had to know just how bad it was. It is worse than I ever imagined.

Something is wrong with her. I think it is time I let go. I tried everything I could think of (albeit not as long as some of you). I just don't think I could ever love what I would be getting back if she returned. I have forgiven her in my heart and I feel at peace, yet a little sad how things turned out.

I'll continue on the boards here, but not for the same reason. I would have fought and stood if I thought she was worth it. She had cheapened herself so much in my eyes, her family, my family and my D. Our friends don't accept her either as she is now. It is more than the FOG I feel. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I hear you Firebird. We all have our limits and timelines. You shouldn't have to apologize for doing what you felt was the right thing and for as long as you could endure. It's not fair to you to have to wait around forever, we all need to move on eventually.

Serial cheaters just don't get it.

Firebird
The emotional fatigue is painful and hollowing, but any person can only take so much. My guess is that on DDay the LB was already running low and the withdrawals have come fast and furiously since then. This has been a similar case for me.

No matter what anyone tells you...You did the right thing fighting for your marriage and WW no matter the length of time. It demonstrates your character and your inner strength. Be Proud of the work you did and who you have and will continue to become. Your new strength will serve you well.

The future is unknown but the past is certainly evident and not something you want based on how you characterize how you see WW. Good luck.

Thanks Eduard and RTRC,
As down as I am, I still haven't filed. I feel like slipping back into Plan B although my WW says 'no contact' with me drives her further away. It however does a lot to relieve the pain and anxiety of a Plan A. My head tells me to end it all and bring closure, but my heart keep telling me there is still a chance for miracles.

If you feel like you still have some sort of hope left, then I would not file.

I told my WW that it was over when I lost all hope and faith which I have so I've started the process.

What is there to lose if you wait? If you Plan B it will help ease the pain and connection before filing. I'd recommend at least doing some Plan B before going to the last resort.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Eduard:
<strong>
What is there to lose if you wait? If you Plan B it will help ease the pain and connection before filing. I'd recommend at least doing some Plan B before going to the last resort. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess that's where I'm at after all the saber rattling. I have LB big time last night, but it was necessary I think. If I am going to stand, then I have to take a stand for whats right and wrong. A few weeks ago, I thought my WW was ending an affair with OM#1 I dated her sent her cards and flowers, she seemed to respond. I dropped her off from our date and a little later I just had to check. She went to OM#1 apt and spent the night. I was crushed. I had already invited her for Thanksgiving to spend the day with me and all of my family (every year we host a family reunion on Thanksgiving at our house.) Then 3 days ago I found from her that she was having a date with OM#2 who is married. It was then I decided to file, but have calmed down since then.

I called her last night and couldn't reach her but I did leave her a voice mail msg. and told her not to come to Thanksgiving. It would have been too awkward for my family who knows our sitch and to uncomfortable and embarassing for me to have my family think, I am willing to settle for crumbs while she cake eats.

WW told D this morning that she was hurt and that I was wishy washy and kept changing my mind. Yes I did change my mind. But all I know she is not giving up her OM and adding a new one, she doesn't ever wear her wedding rings. She hasn't told me she loves me or given me any hope of reconciliation in a year. Whenever I ask her what she wants, her answer is always "I don't know what I want". She just has never filed when she said she would.

I risk loosing her because she must be embarrassed because I had revealed her affair. But do I want her back under just any circumstances, like having to lie to my family to protect her image, and having to fake trust so she doesn't have to do what's necessary to earn it back. Worrying about whether she has given up the O men. Without hearing that she wants to make a sincere effort to work on our marriage and get counsoling from Steve Harley. Also she doesn't want to live here.

It is all too much for me to submit to. If I take her back by allow her not to agree to the POJA then what future would we have? I would be miserable and in doubt the rest of my life with her. I have to see a total willingness for her to try to fix this marriage and complete honesty in every way. If I can't have her back on these conditions then I would rather not have her. I know the complete loss of her would devestate me emotionaly, but it would be better than dying by bits and pieces over the coming years.

Firebird,
It really sounds like you should be in Plan B. Plan B is really for you, it affords you a safe place to heal. She has not experienced what life is like without you.

IF it drives here away, then you have your answer. If she comes to you, then you still have a fighting chance at saving your marriage.

If you look at my time line, I didn't last as nearly as long as you have. I didn't do a very good plan A and terrible Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by RWD:
<strong> Firebird,
It really sounds like you should be in Plan B. Plan B is really for you, it affords you a safe place to heal. She has not experienced what life is like without you.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RWD,
I think I should be in Plan B too. I was only an hour away from going to my lawyer and file for divorce, but backed out. I am going to give her a chance to be completely alone. She loves the Holidays, we usually do lots of entertaining. I will still this year, but she won't. D told me she is quite upset at not being invited to the Thanksgiving family reunion. I'm glad she feels it, but at the same time I hate to hurt her.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you look at my time line, I didn't last as nearly as long as you have. I didn't do a very good plan A and terrible Plan B. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, me to. I didn't know about MB and Plan A or B until 2 months after DDay. She was already
moved out for 3 mos.

Sounds like my bottom line by Mr. Spock applies to your XW and OM. LOL

Firebird
Plan B sounds like the way to go. You do still have some feelings for her that need to fade before heading for Dv, your reluctance to go to the lawyers tells that. God CAN work miracles and that should give us hope and faith and I pray He does one for you. Plan B is also for WS to understand what life will be like without you, as I understand it, it is about the harsh reality, hurt, and loneliness of ending the relationship and WS needs to see that.

You were amazed that I'm not in the funny farm yet, but I have similar admiration for you fighting for what's right and not giving up after multiple OMs. I've barely been able to survive 1 of them. Your strength is amazing and your love for your W must be very deep.

Hug your D and tell her you love her, you'll both help and support one another through this. Me, I'm gonna hug the dog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks RTRC:

Yes, I do love my W very much, just not what she is doing. I hug my D AND my dog everyday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It sounds like things are still very high in the emotionally charged category. Plan B will help you bring it down a few levels. Plan B is great because you can do things that you want to do and not have to worry. You can better yourself for yourself instead of having to feed your WW cake and waiting. Absence will either make the heart grow fonder or grow apart.

If you go into Plan B, then your WW SHOULD NOT attend the Thanksgiving dinner. That is part of WS's facing the consequences of their actions. They try as best as they can to not face the musice and we BS's sometimes make it easy on them. You and your family should not have to be subjected to the awkwardness she would bring to the occassion. Maybe your D's could spend some of the time with you and some of the time with her? With Plan B you don't have to continually compromise yourself to accomodate for your WW's actions. I know my WW is embarrassed by what she's done, but you have to face the consequences and take responsibility as an Adult.

If you set a precedence now that you will allow her to come back to you on her terms and not have anything set in place (POJA, 4 rules to a successful M, N/C letter) you are only setting yourself up for future failures.

Fence sitting and seeing which side of the fence she wants to be on can take some time. Plan B will either force her to decide for herself or it will make your decision that much easier. And you want to make sure you have no doubt and no regrets if and when it comes time to make that decision.

Keep your head up Firebird, things do get better eventually! The light at the end of the tunnel may only be a flicker, but it gets brighter as time goes on.

<small>[ November 21, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Eduard ]</small>

Eduard
Thanks for your counsel. As always you are spot on. Support from people like you keep me going even when I was faultering badly a few nights ago.

I did tell my W that under the circumstances it would be better if she didn't come to the family reunion on Thanksgiving. I left it in voice mail to her. I didn't know if she got it or not, until the next day. My W drives D to school and they talk. I pick up my D from school and we talk. My D was upset w/me because of cancelling the invitation to my W. D told me W was very upset and hurt and that if there was any chance to get her coming back, that I just blew it with that phone call. She told me her M would never come back now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I calmly told D, that is your M choice, if that is what she thinks she should do. I didn't do it to punish her M. I want to avoid the awkwardness that my family would feel knowing our sitch and that it would be hard on me and her M as well. D ranted for at least an hour. I told her that is my decision, she was given an explaination and if she needed further clarification I would give it, but I would not change my mind.

A few hours later my D came back to me in a beautiful mood. Go figure, but she has been comfortable with my decision since and wants to spend the entire day with her family on TG. I previously told her she was welcomed to spend the day or any part of it with whomever she wished. So I didn't pressure her but did ask her to discuss it with her M and let me know if anything changed. So no, there won't be anymore cake eating. I will feel W's tears but I have to let her work this out for herself.

You could tell her something to the affect like "I would have loved to have you come to the family Thanksgiving dinner but considering the circumstances I feel it is best we celebrated it on our own at this point in time."

WW will try to use anything and everything against you including threats. It's funny to think that just because she isn't invited to come over for Thanksgiving that would totally eliminate you ever reconciling. Sounds kind of ludicrous (foggy) to me.

I wonder if they ever consider what THEY have done that would make you never want to reconcile with them.

Make sure when you have D's involved they don't get used as weapons against each other. I can see disgruntled WS's doing that. Another thing I heard is letting D's know it's ok to love your WW. Sometimes D's can feel like they should suppress their love because one S doesn't love the other.

If and when you go Plan B, make it a good Plan B complete with the letter. Contact should only be made in regards to D or a third party.

T-day and Christmas will be different for me this year as well. It will be the first time in 8-9yrs I've not gone to WW's family functions. But I have a lot of great friends whom I've gotten closer with through all of this who will make it even more of a splendid holiday.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Eduard:
<strong> You could tell her something to the affect like "I would have loved to have you come to the family Thanksgiving dinner but considering the circumstances I feel it is best we celebrated it on our own at this point in time."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OM#1 W called me tonight, she was upset because she was in an argument with OM. They are separated but she is still close to her in-laws. She and OM were invited to OM's father's house for Thankgiving dinner. OM's mother just died about a month ago and it will be a sad TG for OM's father without her this year. So what does OM do? He is going to my B-I-L's house with my WW for dinner with them, leaving his own father alone to do it. OMW was of course upset at OM's selfishness to leave his father alone while he is still grieving the loss of his W. OMW is still going alone to spend the day with OM's father by herself to console him.

The OM is a CRUEL A$$! My WW is no better to have invited him with her because she wanted him with her instead of letting him spend it with his grieving dad. I am not surprised at the actions of the OM or my WW. I am a little disappointed that my inlaws are so accepting of OM even though WW and I aren't even legally separated.

After hearing this, I am so glad I didn't invite WW to TG dinner with my relatives. She is an embarrassment to me. This was thoughtless of her. Of course OM#1 must yield to her every whim. Even if he doesn't know for sure about OM#2, he may be sensing that his relationship with WW is not secure and doing everything he can to hold on. Remember that OM#2 is still married and still living with his W and therefore cannot spend much time with my WW.

After this gross act of shelfishness, I have to ask myself, why am I standing for this woman? Everytime I cope with her FOG and decide to stand for her, she does something that makes me wish I had not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>T-day and Christmas will be different for me this year as well. It will be the first time in 8-9yrs I've not gone to WW's family functions. But I have a lot of great friends whom I've gotten closer with through all of this who will make it even more of a splendid holiday. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Many of us find ourselves in a position not of our choosing these Holiday's. Eduard I hope that you, all of us and our families are granted God's peace during this Holiday Season.

What I don't understand is why you are even interested in talking to your wife about what is going on with the men in her life. By doing so you become part of her melodrama. My advice is to act very indifferent about what she is doing and with whom. In fact, I would tell her that you have no time to listen to this kind of drivel. You should be detaching and moving on your life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by yosh:
<strong> What I don't understand is why you are even interested in talking to your wife about what is going on with the men in her life. By doing so you become part of her melodrama. My advice is to act very indifferent about what she is doing and with whom. In fact, I would tell her that you have no time to listen to this kind of drivel. You should be detaching and moving on your life. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yosh;
Some of us or slow learners <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Seriously, too often I allowed myself to think my sitch was "special" and that I needed to modify Plan B to suit my sitch. I am finding out the hard way, that I just made things worse by not following a strick Plan B. My sitch is like most others here who are dealing with WS's and heartache. I am resolved to do a good Plan B and God grant me the strength to stick to it. Thanks for the reminder that I seem to need from time to time and also for giving a darn.

Firebird
Plan B is a bear and God needs to grant both of us the strength to do it successfully. I have been thinking about you over the weekend. (I no longer have home internet because I could handle the internet porn temptations.) It was good to read up on what you've been up to the past few days. Everything we learn these days is done the hard way just keep it up and somethings gonna give. God does answer prayer.

I have a funny example of that for ya. I was feeling lonely and wanted a hug from a woman how loved me on Sunday morning while walking the dog. So I prayed to God to fill the need or remove it. At church later that day, a 65 y old female friend came up and gave me the biggest hug. 2 in fact. It was GREAT!! Be careful what you ask for though because God will take care of it for you, but next time I'll be more specific about what I have in mind for age and sexiness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good luck this week. I know the holidays are going to be a mess for me (emotionally) and for you too, but it sounds like the logistics have been ironed out a bit.

God bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Ridingtherollercoaster:
<strong> .........Be careful what you ask for though because God will take care of it for you, but next time I'll be more specific about what I have in mind for age and sexiness. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good luck this week. I know the holidays are going to be a mess for me (emotionally) and for you too, but it sounds like the logistics have been ironed out a bit.

God bless </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ha Ha Ha, Love your post. I'll pray your next hug comes from a Hottie! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey RTRC,
We are going to make it. God doesn't want us to suffer eternal. I think he just wants to make some changes for us and for the better but the process is a little painful 'cause we don't understand His ways.

Firebird
I'll be thinking of you throughout Thanksgiving. I know it will be a very trying time for you and your D. Best of luck.

Any new developments for you? Plan B is pretty hard, now I have this desire to call her, draw her close, in part, because I can't. That kinda stinks. Also, it seems like the workload for keeping the house, dog, and I from imploding has increased exponentially or I'm just not getting enough sleep. May be the new snow has got me down. I don't know.

Hang in there. I'll keep my eyes peeled for that hug you ordered up for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />