I didn't even think of it that way - that he is replacing me with porn but he thinks it's not ok for me to "replace" him with hobbies. I'm not even wanting to replace him, just better myself, make it so that he is not the only thing that makes me happy. Sheesh.<p>Ok, I have one more thing I have to bring up - please let me know if you would have reacted in the same way. My H comes home from work today and tells me he wants to tell me about something (oh no). We live in college town and he is a computer technician who needs to do on-site work sometimes. One day he went to a dorm and the girl answered in her skimpy panties and sports bra. He said that he went in, fixed her computer then left, and while he was there she got dressed (later he said she was putting on a robe while he walked in). He got back to work and told his co-workers (who are a bunch of horny college guys) about the experience, to which, of course, they asked him why he didnt take advantage of the situation, etc...The point of telling me this lovely story was to build up the the fact that her computer was in the shop yesterday and on it the co-workers were looking through the pictures of herself on her computer (who my H says were provocative, maybe nude?, but looked professional, like she was a model or something, and to which the rest of the guys had but on easy listening music to set the mood for their veiwing...). The point of telling me this was to tell me that he "tried so hard and didnt look at the pictures." Well, thanks so much!
Well, of course I was upset with him for entering a dorm room of a half naked young girl and not even giving her the respect to leave the room so she could dress (there is no bathroom inside the dorms, she would have had to use the same room he was in). He got mad at ME for getting upset with him about staying in the same room as her! Much later on in the story after I had been saying many times it was inappropriate to be in the room with an indecently dressed young woman ALONE, he said that they were not alone, that another roommate of hers was there. Totally changes the story, I'm not mad at him so much (Just told him I would have had the respect to leave her alone while she dressed). BUT he is STILL angry with me for getting upset with him in the beginning, when the story I heard (bc he hadn't told me otherwise) was that they were alone! Excuse me? He doesn't tell me the full story, so I get upset, then he tells me the full story and he is still mad at me for being initially upset?
I don't know...Well, to make a long story short (If I havent already made it long...) we forgave eachother and everything seems to be ok. But he still thinks that I should not have been mad at him even in the beginning. Plus, I wouldn't have reacted the same way if he didn't have a history of looking at porn at work and his sexual addiction. How am I to really know what went on in that room (before I knew there was someone else there), given the fact that he lies so much? Any thoughts on your end???<p>OK enough about me, how are you doing? I know what you mean about porn being not expecially looked down upon, so it makes it hard to get help. Everywhere you look on TV and in movies, etc, there are skimpy women that can really get a guys juices flowing. It's socially acceptable to look at women as sex toys, at least in the media. Has your fiance been into porn for a long time? All I can think to say is make sure you have this fully resolved before you tie the knot. I was engaged to my H for awhile when we found out we were having our first baby. We bumped up the wedding plans a few months so we would be married before our boy was born. But if I knew his porn was going to be such a problem in our marriage (I had the impression that he was always honest with me, and after we marry I find out he lies like crazy) I would have thought twice about getting engaged to him until everything was solved. Don't decide to get married based on pretenses that he WILL change, do it when he HAS changed. This just made me thikn about something: Do the guys who do garbage like this (porn addiction, lying, etc) really think they are doing something wrong? I mean, I have a personal moral code that says that I will not kill people, lie to people, and so on. This "code" leads me to make decisions like not to kill someone and not to lie to people. It seems like they are, as you said before, lying to themselves about it. That they make decisions based on how they feel at the moment, not what their values truly are. I read something (I think by Dr. Harley, maybe somewhere else) that said values are what you chose to do when no one else is looking. Makes me think about what my H really believes in as his core values. Maybe that's what needs to be worked on, not the actualy porn use - that the porn and lies are the symptom of a backwards ethical value. If not that he really believes porn is wrong, maybe it's that he doesn't think I am worth respecting. Hmmm...

I'd be furious. If a college coed is so insecure she has to let a man in her dorm room when she isn't dressed, that's HER hang up. I'd say your husband is a VERY honorable man for telling you. He did recognize she was trouble, ignored her ploy and sent a subtle "no interest here" message to her, plus he TOLD you about it!<p>I'd expect my SO to react by saying he's sorry and waiting in the hall steadfastly (ie, he'd better wait even if she said it was ok) until she returned, dressed or covered up. End of story. I expect that because we've discussed this type of woman and agreed a man has the right to send a strong "I'm not interested" signal to them.<p>As for his "trying not to look", you have to take that one without getting upset. You have the right to be hurt, I know I am when I hear it from my SO. But, he's telling you he's TRYING to change a reflex behavior. He's telling you to let you know you're important enough to try to change that behavior for. He's telling you that it's so programmed into him by culture that it's a big step to even notice himself doing it and he's even working very hard to NOT do it, FOR YOU! He needs praise and encouragement for those first efforts. He must walk before he runs. Think how many years he's spent learning to view women disrespectfully and now he's trying to stop out of respect for you. <p>Then come here and rant to me about how much it pisses you off that it's an EFFORT for him!!! GRRR!!! Cause I'm pissed at my SO too, but supportive for the reasons stated above.<p>Your last statement about values is EXACTLY where my SO's progress has come from. Not that my SO's values HAVE changed! But that he now sees what porn use does and how it doesn't really fit in with his TRUE values. He lies less now because HE sees the lies as shame over doing something he in his heart knows is a betrayal even if society says its ok. <p>Maybe your H lies because deep down this IS something he thinks is wrong. He may say he lies because you'll get upset. If he gets angry when you get upset, pay attention. His anger may be at himself, not you. He may not realize he thinks its wrong, because there's a warped perception coming from marketers about what's really happening. <p>For example, my SO had an interesting revelation regarding values over bachelor parties. An easy subject for us because he skipped those before we met and hasn't gone to any since we met. I assumed he considered it cheating. Wrong! He said it was ok but not worth hurting me. Huh? I asked him if he thought it was ok to be with live naked women paid only to sexually entertain him. It's not cheating to be with another living woman for sexual pleasure? After I said that, he looked me in the eyes and said he hadn't thought of it that way before, but yes it definately is cheating. Again, that was an easy subject for us to use to discuss these things together, because it wasn't an issue between us.<p>Keep in touch. And don't give up, your husband seems to be trying to be very open with you and he's also expressed a willingness to work on this. It sounds like he does love and respect you. He just doesn't know how to go about this. Has he read any books or articles on this subject?

<p>[ February 18, 2002: Message edited by: crl759 ]</p>

Maybe I'm just cynical, but he wasn't being so honest about things - the dorm room happened 4-5 months ago, the pics of her came in yesterday. He told me about both incidents last night. I just don't get why he was comfortable with staying in the room while this girl was disrobing and getting dressed. I would have been so happy if he left the room, that's all that I was upset about - that he didn't and that he dind't show her and me the respect to excuse himself as she got decent.<p>My H seems to have this Jeckyl and Hyde personality - he is good around me, but when I'm not around, Lord knows what things he'll get into. Do you kind of feel like that about your SO? <p>Yeah, you are right about not being mad at him for trying not to look at the pics. I am proud of him fo it, but I guess it just hurts that this is an effort for him. I mean, he had met this person and she had been indecent around him, but it's still hard to not look at her? I know, I've just to swallow this one...But it's so hard!<p>I never thought of him getting mad at me as not being really mad at me, but he's just mad at himself. That might be very true.<p>I bet it felt really good for your SO to look at your opinion about bachelor parties and agree with you. I have had a few moments like that, and I know it feels SO GOOD to have a strong opinion about something, be prepared to defend, then not have to. That's just so great.<p>My H read the pornography article by Dr. Harley and he said it really hit home. That was last week. I think it is kind of taking effect on him thinking about what he is really doing when he looks at porn. That he is doing more than gettng pleasure - but he is hurting me, my trust, and setting himself up for another possible lie. Only time will tell if he is sincere though. After so much, it's hard to tell what is and isn't sincere. I read your first post in this thread again and caught the part where you said "Do I really know him well enough to love him?" It's so true! It's the Jeckyl and Hyde thing - which one are you marrying? Or do you just have to accept both of them? How do you deal with that - I know I have really questioned whether I love the man I thought I knew or the man who is in front of me.<p>If you need to vent about anything, feel free.

I know the most difficult part of being supportive is knowing that he's struggling NOT to check out other women. Hey we should be and ARE woman enough that our men don't need to be tempted to look elsewhere. And if they do, the thought running through their minds should be, "Damn, my girl really smokes this one. I don't get what the other guys think is such a big deal." You know what, I'm convinced that my SO and your H are going to react to other women that way someday. And when they do, they're gonna have alot of fun when they get home to their live ultimate fantasy woman they get to be with for life! Not yet though. <p>They haven't figured out how great that'll be. We know because we switched gears from checking out other guys when we commited to them. Think of how great that feels for us and how our SO's are missing out on that because of social customs they haven't really examined yet. Try to use that pity to keep your cool when he's telling you about his struggles. I do and knowing what he's missing but working toward helps me. But it still sucks having to hear it, feel crummy and then thank him for making the effort!<p>I think the fact that you got the whole story is great. The fact that he waited is where the mistrust comes into play. I know, I've been there. GRRRRR! However, maybe your husband went to the dorm room before his latest effort at honesty. The computer came in, he remembered the incident, felt guilty for not telling you then and came home to you with the full story. If so, this is great progress. Did I mention these things seem to take alot of small steps, plus a lot of slips. When he reveals a slip you just have to come here to vent but encourage him to keep things honest. The secrets and lies are worse. <p>Besides I find the more he can talk to me about it, the less he does something painful to tell me. He's started thinking about my feelings as things happen. Ah, a couple is born.<p>Also, on the dorm thing. I'm pretty confident about my SO's reaction in that setting because he's in his 30's. He's in a different age bracket and life stage. But out at clubs with women in our age group hitting on him. Grrr.<p>Well the worst time was over a year ago. He ignored me to flirt with a woman known to cheat openly on her man. This after we discussed my feelings about her and my distaste for her antics. At least your husband was just flustered by this dorm girl's inappropriate behavior and he didn't know what to do so he just ignored her. Sure wish my SO had ignored that bar fly. He still tries to come up with excuses. It hurt, and I think it still does because he won't discuss it with me or admit he was out of line. I'd love to go confront him about it right now. But I know it won't solve it but rather start a fight. Rather than Love Buster. I'll wait till he's ready to calmly discuss it. And we will resolve it so I know he understands my pain and won't hurt me that way ever again. Then I won't have to think about it ever again.