Called to talk to son as he's visiting with the outlaws and OW and Jethro at home of outlaws. I hear in background OW laughing and talking and when Jethro says "Hi Peachy how are you?" the laughing stops.

My son runs up to phone and says he misses me and loves me and that he got a monster truck. I am sharp and to the point with Jethro. Say that I wish to speak only to son. Then Jethro asks if I got the check under the mat. I say that I did not want to ever go over to that home again and wish he'd just respect me and my little that I request from him. He says to "get over it and that I will be coming over there to pick up my son" and I say no.

Then comes the bomb. He has given me a present. He says "I don't know what is wrong with you. I EVEN GAVE YOU AN EXTRA FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS IN THAT CHECK FOR YOU AND SON TO SPEND." I said that I did not care about the money. I felt like somebody stabbed me in the stomach. He said I was ungrateful (guess I am not the "appreciative" kind of woman as his money cannot buy me anymore) and that I am being silly and hung up after saying that he didn't want to hear such nonsense coming from me.

I started crying. I mean, why on earth is this man giving us more money? Can we say it is HIS CONSCIENCE AT CHRISTMAS NOW? Will five hundred dollars buy me to smile more or shut up or overlook the fact he's impregnated another woman and broken apart his family. I suddenly felt dirty and have had trouble stopping crying right now.

What is his motivation to do that? I do not understand it at all. He has been more than cruel to me and maybe the ghost of christmas past, present, and future may have paid him a visit or he is feeling a bit low for all he's done. But he's still fogged and I am still hurt and although moving on, I don't know why this "gift" would make me break down and cry like this.

Sure, we need the money. But I don't want it this way. I am not ungrateful at all. Far from it. But I feel bought off. I feel used now. Is this my "christmas bonus" for not going to trial? What is this? I believe it's basically blood money. Any way, I sure hope his conscience hurts and that he feels horrible and is beginning to regret the lifetime mistake he has made and how he has ripped apart this family.

I've been so strong and so resilient. Now I am suddenly reduced to tears by this new "gift". I never want to see him or hear his voice again.

hmm ... NC done pretty good 4 me. Within 6 months of total darkness I have no more love for her and another 3 months after that she can't rattle me. Get someone as a middle person on all issues w/ kid.

Why does this hurt you ? ... 2x4 'cause you let it.

Good news is sooner or later your self preservation will kicks in and make you stronger.

-rh-

Peachy,

None of us can really know the depth of your pain because we have not been in your shoes. I am sure that this has been a very, very painful experience.

It seems, from what I have read of your posts, that you are filled with rage, bitterness, and hatred, none of which are healthy. Of course, it's very understandable that you would have these emotions and feelings. It is very difficult to have been wronged, betrayed, mistreated and to not have those feelings! But ultimately, they are hurting only you. And I don't say this to judge you, but as someone who myself has struggled with those same emotions, as I'm sure even the best of persons has at one time or another.

I have read that you are a Christian. Right? I've seen you ask for others to pray for your ex-husband, etc. So I'm going to give you some advice as a Christian sister to another Christian. I hope you will not immediately reject it.

First of all, you need to forgive both your ex-husband and the OW. If you don't, you will probably always want revenge and your bitterness will only grow worse. It doesn't mean that you approve of their actions, that you are happy about it, that you are friends with him, etc. But it does mean that you let go of hatred towards them.

There is a possibility that they might end up happy together. She might always be in your son's life as a stepmother. Now, I know that is an awful thought. If it were me, I know I'd be having such a hard, hard time. But, it is a reality that somehow, someway you have to accept and live with. I know it will take time, but there is nothing you can do other than to accept it and go through the time of grieving and healing.

Think of these verses: "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord." My husband did quite a few things to deeply hurt me and wrong me, and when I have dwelt on it or even "vented" about it too much, as you are doing (venting in your posts), it honestly only made me become more and more angry and bitter. It stirred me up. Did it help me? No, not really. Did it make me happier and my husband more miserable? Nope. It only made it harder for me to let go and it only made me upset and angry.

I have to make an actual conscious effort to forgive, to let go, and to trust that God will take care of me and that whatever "punishment" my husband deserves for whatever wrong he did, God will take care of it. There has certainly been anger along the way... times of depression, despair, fear, etc. Many times of crying myself to sleep and just pure grieving harder than I've ever grieved before. Times of being tempted to do something to hurt him. But, thank goodness, I did not give in to those temptations, and as time goes by, God is faithful to comfort, heal, and give me peace and rest.

I have read your posts at times and felt fear... fear that you would do something violent against one of them. Forgive me if I misjudge you, but there are far too many stories of women and men, who in a moment of rage, have literally KILLED the object of their rage. There is a story right now on my AOL about a woman who killed her husband and it was over him seeing another woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Anger, rage, and bitternesss can be so dangerous. It can consume us to the point that we find ourselves doing something we wouldn't normally do, and that we'd later regret. It can also literally harm us physically, not to mention mentally. It can literally drive a person to insanity because your mind has no peace and no joy but is only consumed with negative emotions.

There is no easy answer though with how to deal with the emotions and feelings or with how to let go. It is much, much easier said than done. When I read of the woman in TX who ran over her husband, I imagine a woman who never in her life thought she'd do such a thing, but she was so consumed and in such grief, that she "snapped." I felt sorry for her, for her family, for everyone involved. God never intended these things to happen... adultery, betrayal, murder. As much as I empathized with the grief that I knew drove her to do what she did, the fact remains that she is in prison, a man is dead, and she has to live with that for the rest of her life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It breaks my heart.

The Bible says, "pray for your enemies." And of course, it says to forgive. Even the worst of offenders. Forgiveness is often for our own good because it frees us from being literally enslaved by our hatred/anger. That is what I often see in your posts... a type of enslavement to your emotions.

And again, leave the punishment to God. Let him deal with them. We are told not to judge others, not to condemn them or basically, throw stones at them, because we too are sinners. The thing that God seems to hate the most in the Bible is self-righteousness. The only people that He ever called a "brood of vipers" were the Pharisees, because they judged others. They saw themselves as better. Even though "jethro" and the OW have done a great wrong, you are not their judge. You have, unfortunately, had to bear the pain of their wrongdoing... a pain and a wrong that you did not want. And, no, it's not "fair" in any way. But life is not "fair" period. Adultery is a very grievous sin. But judging and hatred are also sins. Try to let go of your desire to expose their sin and condemn them for it, and instead, just work on you and your relationship with son and your growth, healing, etc.

Do you have real-life people you talk to (vs. internet)? A pastor, counselor, church friends? I would encourage you to ask your pastor or women at church to pray with you, for you, and to help you.

It will be the hardest thing in the world for you to do what is right in the face of what is wrong, but God will bless you for it.

I do not know if you will receive this well. I hope that you do and realize that I am not judging you but making an attempt to help you.

Why does it hurt and anger you so much that they are together? Ask yourself that and be totally completely honest with yourself. I'm not asking why they are wrong, etc (we know that their actions were wrong and a betrayal)... but why does it hurt YOU so much? My guess is because you loved him and he was your husband, and maybe you even miss him, how he was before the affair at least. And maybe you are afraid to let go or to forgive because if you do, you might realize you still love him. I don't know. I could be very wrong, but that's how it was with me. When I didn't hate my husband and forgave, it almost hurt worse because I knew I still loved him and missed him very much. And it seemed "unfair" that I hurt and he didn't (although he did, and I imagine "Jethro" has to). But I decided that I'd rather love and forgive, and get through the grief of being rejected than to hate. I knew that it was one or the other. Love or hate. I knew in a way it'd be easier to be angry and to hate, but I knew I'd become a woman that I didn't want to be. And I didn't want my life to be one of a bitter person. I also didn't want to make the mistake of a rebound relationship or doing something stupid, which alot of people do when they "run" from dealing with hurt.

Anyways... I hope there is at least something in this that can help you. And I hope you are not too angry at anything I've said. You are not a bad person for feeling as you do, etc... but it is not healthy for you to stay there. And I say this again, as a Christian sister and as someone who has myself been stuck in emotions and who has hated and struggled and grieved and been mistreated, etc. My past hurts are not the same as yours, but we all have the same hurts and emotions.

Read some Psalms. Read about how David handled his life, where he was literally pursued by an enemy wanting to kill him. Read how he prayed and prayed and asked God to take care of it (which He did). Read how he found comfort in the midst of his trials and how he handled them. Read Proverbs and find wisdom in how to deal with your situation. Pray and ask others to pray for you.

As for the money, it's up to you whether to take it. It very well may be that your ex-husband was simply trying to be kind. You really do not know what his heart motive was. You canot read his heart or mind. If you need it, then I would take it and simply say, "thank you." You can use it all on your son's needs if you don't feel right abuot you taking any of it for yourself. That's just my thoughts, but it's you that needs to decide.

Sorry so long!

<small>[ December 20, 2003, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

P.S. Have you heard of a woman named Corrie tenBoom? She is not alive anymore but she was a Christian Dutch woman in Holland (I think) during WWII. Her family hid Jews in their home during that time, and they were caught. They went to a concentration camp. She amazingly was released (one week before all the women of her age in the camp were killed in the gas chambers) but her father and sister were killed. Afterwards, she traveled all over telling others about Jesus.

If you can get any of her books, I'd encourage you to. She wrote several devotional type books, and it is just amazing to see how she forgave and how she still was able to love others and see good in them.

Her biography is called "The Hiding Place" but she also had several books she wrote that helped me alot during my post-divorce time (which I'm still in!). You can maybe order them online. I don't think they are all in print anymore or in bookstores. I found a couple of them at the library and then a used book store.

Another P.S.

I found an online article on forgiveness and will post below. Please read with an open heart:


"Emotional wounds, like physical wounds, take time to heal. The wider and deeper the wound, the longer it will take to heal. While the wound is healing, you must constantly guard against infection setting in. In fact, in some situations, infections are often more of a concern than the wound itself. This is because infections can spread quickly and ravage a healthy body. It is important to note that once an infection sets in, the healing process of the actual wound slows down or stops. The "infection" in emotional wounds is bitterness and anger.

Before we cover the steps necessary to speed the healing process of the actual emotional wound, let us first look at how to keep the infections from starting. Rule number one is never dwell on the incident! Dwelling is different than constructive thought. Constructive thought is carefully evaluating the situation to determine what responses are appropriate. Dwelling is rehashing the incident and feeling the pain over and over again. Dwelling stirs up very powerful emotions. Every negative emotion you allow to grow becomes one more hurdle you have to cross before you can start the healing process.

Divorce counselors are people who try to help you emotionally get over your divorce. They try to get you to fall "out of love" with your former mate. Dwelling on the wrong someone has done you is so powerful, many divorce counselors use it in their therapy. To help their patient get over the love they have for their former mate, they have them dwell on all of the bad their former mate has done. Eventually, hate and anger replace the love, and they are no longer "in love." Of course, this type of therapy does more harm than good. It does, however, show the damaging power of dwelling on past offenses.

Anger and bitterness hurts you more than your violator; it poisons your attitude and imprisons your spirit.

There is another reason why you should not dwell on an incident. Each person has a limited amount of energy to deal with things they encounter during the day. Bitterness and anger consumes a great deal of energy. If you continually dwell on an incident and stir up those emotions, you won’t have any energy left to deal with the wound itself.

Refusing to dwell on an offense keeps the wound from getting infected. The wound, however, is still there. Something must be done to start the healing process. The first step in healing a wound is to seek God and ask Him to work in your life. True forgiveness has to come from Him. This may seem too simple, but it is often overlooked.

The next step is to pray for your offender. The Bible clearly commands us to pray for our enemies. I started praying for the friend who wronged me. I did not pray that he would see the errors of his ways, but rather I asked God to bless him and make him prosper. I must confess that this was really tough. As I prayed out of obedience, I found my attitude beginning to change. There were times when I actually meant the prayers. Praying for him was therapeutic. The healing process began. I found you cannot earnestly pray that God would bless a person and still remain angry and bitter. The two cannot coexist.

The third step is to address the issue head on. You must relinquish all rights to the offense. As believers, God has instructed us to commit our possessions, body and life to God. All of these things actually become the property of God and we are only stewards of them. If something happens to them outside our control, we are not to fret. We must do the same thing to the offenses that have been done to us. We must commit all rights and control to God. We are to view it as though the offense was actually done to God, not us.

There are two advantages to viewing an offense this way. First, God is much more capable of correcting a wrong deed than you or I. Second, doing this means you have relinquished all rights to dwell on the incident. You have no right to hold a grudge. The offense was no longer done to you, but to God. Since dwelling causes the emotional wounds to become infected, this part is very important.

I wish I could say the wound I sustained healed quickly. It didn’t. For months, I went through a roller-coaster ride of emotions. I caught myself thinking about the incident several times a day. This surprised and disappointed me. My personality is not one that holds a grudge. Once an issue has been resolved, I am usually able to put it behind me and move on. Yet, this betrayal plagued me.

In a sense I am glad it didn’t heal quickly. It made me much more compassionate toward those who are struggling to forgive a violation. It helped me realize some wounds run deep and take time to heal. It is not necessarily a reflection of the person’s "spirituality."

In Corrie Ten Boom’s book "Tramp for the Lord," she has a chapter called "The Blacks and Whites of Forgiveness." She says even though she has survived the German concentration camps and has been able to forgive the abusive guards, she still finds forgiveness for new incidents difficult. She mentioned an incident with an American that took her years to truly forgive. It is encouraging to see I am not alone in my struggles. Even the "spiritual giants" struggle with these issues.

One day when I was thinking about what was done to me, I thought about what was done to Christ. He was wronged and betrayed more than anyone else in the world. If anyone had the right to complain or hold a grudge, He was the one. Yet, He did not. We should follow His example.

As I thought about this, I was startled by a realization. It was so simplistic, but the thought had never occurred to me before. We all know Jesus died for the sins of the world. But, what I failed to realize was the actual sin my friend had committed against me was one of the sins Jesus was punished for. That specific sin was already paid for and forgiven by God. The offense no longer has an outstanding debt. It has been dealt with and I must act on that fact.

In summary, the basic steps of forgiveness are:

1) Guard your heart immediately after an incident. For two weeks, do not allow yourself to dwell on the incident at all!

2) Seek God’s help and ask Him to heal your wounds.

3) Start praying for the well-being of the offender.

4) As much as possible, don’t dwell on the incident.

5) Relinquish all right of the offense to God.

6) Realize Jesus had more right than anyone to hold a grudge, but He still forgave. We must do no less.

7) Realize the actual offense against you was specifically paid for on the cross. It has been dealt with and we must act on that fact.

The following paragraphs are for those who are already consumed with bitterness and anger from a past offense. The emotions of these people are like a run-away train that can’t be stopped. They know they need help, but what can they do?

For months or years the emotional infection has run unrestricted throughout your body. The anger is so overwhelming you are not even able to take the first simple step of praying for the offender. For you, professional Christian counseling is recommended. However, a couple things can be done in the interim.

The first thing you need to do is stop fueling the fire. You should make a commitment not to think about the offense at all for two weeks. This will allow some of the emotions to subside. During this time you should be honest with God. Tell Him you lack the desire to do what is right and ask Him to give you the desire to work on it. Also, you should ask Him to raise up others to pray for you. After the two weeks you may have enough energy to start dealing with the problem.

LoveMyEx,

You are a very wise woman and have said many wise things here tonight. You said many things that I have thought but did not know how to get down on paper or post.

I have worked on the forgiveness thing so that my life can move forward and so that I will like the person that I am. I too know that if I vent and get angry that just brings on more anger and more venting and others feeding me on it.

Peachy, two people have given you some very good advice here tonight and I truly pray that you will accept it in the way that it was intended and that is to help you heal!!!! You must heal and get better, someone here once said something about scratching off a scab just re-opens the wound, leave the scab be, let yourself heal, you can't heal if picking on that scab.

God Bless you tonight and always!!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Oh, {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Peachy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
I almost hate to have to post what I am going to post, as I know it's going to be hurtful. But I sometimes think my only "purpose" on these boards is to wield the MB 2X4...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I wish there was a <love icon> I do love you, dear sister. Please keep that in mind as you read, ok?

OK, here it goes: Peachy, sweety, you've just simply got to stop this "dance" you get sucked into with Jethro. He pushes, you push back. He pulls son, YOU pull back. He does it to you everytime, honey! I think he does it to prove to himself that you are a rotten person, a terrible woman, and he is right for doing what he's doing! Redhat stated it correctly......you should find a neutral 3rd party to act as intermediary. Your contacts with him are simply too painful for you.

Consequently, they cause you to LB. I know you don't care if you LB, but all it does is drive a deeper wedge between the two of you, and hurt you more deeply. He probably feels more angry, too, after your contacts, which only fuels his feelings that he's "done the right thing" in separating his life from yours. Is that what you are trying to accomplish? I didn't think so.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> I am sharp and to the point with Jethro. Say that I wish to speak only to son. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure "sharp" is what you want to be with him. Maybe "short" would be better? Maybe "short" is what you mean, and what you really are. But does he hear "sharp"? Does he hear anger in your sharpness? Will only serve to "prove" to himself that you are an angry, bitter person and he's "better off" with his new "happy" ow. Where's the <gag> icon when you need it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Then Jethro asks if I got the check under the mat. I say that I did not want to ever go over to that home again and wish he'd just respect me and my little that I request from him.....He says "I don't know what is wrong with you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, I believe here's a clue that he's taking your comments as DJ, and Angry Outbursts. LB's.

Hun, you've got to show him a better person. You've got to show him a bigger person.....one with the bigger picture. I'm not trying to demean, or belittle the seriousness of your situation, but, Peachy, here's how I see it: You have looked so closely at this situation for so long, you've gotten your eyes off the bigger picture, which is CHRIST still wants to be the center of your world. You have taken your eyes off that reality, and made Jethro your center! <YUCK> icon needed now!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">]qb] I never want to see him or hear his voice again. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This could be a good thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Please take this time alone to pray, seek God, and ask Him how He would "handle" Jethro in your shoes. I'm sure forgiveness is first on the list (it was on my list).

Peachy, everytime you LB, everytime you and Jethro get into a pi##ing contest over <son>, I believe YOU are the loser. How you are feeling right now? How broken you feel, how your heart aches? That's exactly how Jesus feels for you, too.

Peachy, He wants you to love Him totally. He wants you to lean on HIM. He wants to heal you, and comfort you. Please, please take some time and just rest in the arms of dear Jesus.

Feel HIS Love. There is nothing on earth that can compare to it. The love of a husband is nothing compared to it! Don't you agree? Let Him be your ALL this Christmas season! We all pray this for you. LET JETHRO GO!! Let Jesus have him! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Dear Peachy. I do love you, dear sister. I hurt for you as I read your words. I will pray you feel Jesus healing your heart from the inside out. Please keep your eyes on Him for the next week.........you will feel better, and your son will be happier when that happens!

Think of it this way: The closer to Jesus you get, the more you will "radiate" His love. Then the harder it will be for Jethro to get through to you, and hurt you! THAT will keep him away, cause he won't want to be that near Jesus!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

God Bless,

<small>[ December 21, 2003, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

I have to echo LoveMyEx here. The hardest thing to do was forgive my ex, but it lifts such a tremendous weight. I see that you sit in judgement of him and her and their choices. You know that you are not The Judge. Let it go. You will feel better, but it will be very difficult to do.

Forgiving does NOT mean forgetting or condoning. It means you are no longer letting what has been done HURT you anymore.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ex Princess Buttercup:
<strong> Forgiving does NOT mean forgetting or condoning. It means you are no longer letting what has been done HURT you anymore. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One more to add to that ... Forgiveness is a must; Reconsiliation is optional. (This is not reconsiliation/restoring M <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> but being civil to each other)

I forgave my ExW but I choose to remain NC since she is still hostile and I don't need to take her crabs ... OM could have it all, it is a total package. AND I REFUSED TO GET HURT ANYMORE.

I have a cout appointed MFTC (MC) to resolve our diferences as a middle man (big stuff). I have every single detail of CS exchange schedules & places spelled out in my Dv document.

If those post didn't get through to you, how about using dr. phil question. How is it working for you so far ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Jethro gets his payoff by hurting you, jerking you up and down ... this is normal for WS! and specially true for the controling ones.

Sweetie, you have come a long way from mopping at the floor to stand tall. You don't need him to hurt you ... you don't need his validation. Jethro is just a sore looser try to hang on the last link to hurt you. Don't let him. First step is NC ...

Later when you stop the payoff he would stop his actions. Yes, he will try once in a while but by then you are strong enough to handle it. My exW kept my 2 D for father day against the court order ... I just told my 2 D that it didn't matter since everyday with them is like a father day to me. I didn't engage and I felt pity for her for not knowing what she has done to my 2 D. She might be ending up like gollum and being consumed by the precious one (A).

-rh-

LMX,

Uh...I am a Christian and have forgiven him but have you understood anything?

I am not the one and will never be somebody who would hurt anybody else.

You got it totally in reverse ok?

I almost find it ironic that anybody who knows my story could say that. I've been here longer than you and my sitch is worse ok.

He was violent. There was a r.o. against HIM for breaking into MY house in May. He was abusive at the end when multiple d days would happen and this woman has shacked up in front of my son, gotten preggo and has been a horrid role model to any child, muchless her own.

Sure I have forgiven them and all his other women...But I don't forget and it hurts b/c he's still tried to control me at almost every turn.

Like my friend redhat here, I have NC most of time and it's been great. It's been what has "worked for me" (thanks Phil) and has helped me heal.

What I saw yesterday was a man trying to control me or buy me off once again. And it was hurtful. And it made me cry. And because at that home where I was knocked down two flights of spiral stairs and had more things happen to me than I'd even post here about, I have an extreme aversion to ever going near that house.

When I go over there today to pick the check up, the "gift" will be inside of it. My sister has told me to cash it and try to blow it off as he owes us ten times financially over. And you're right Lupo I may be perceived as LB'ing but I was not ugly nor cruel nor anything over the phone and all I have asked is for the one little thing to be honored with regard to me..and that is not to ask me to ever come over there.

And I don't get the whole thing here. I know who Corrie Ten Boom is. I am not breaking this thing down too much more. It is what it is. He did bad bad things and I am healing. He's still doing bad bad things and he's got a pregnant accomplice beside him and they are basically the moral equivalent of one another. Only thing that angers me is that my little boy is witnessing firsthand something that is wrong.

And I would like to say this...About the "maybe they will be happy together thing"...Have you read the link about Amy Grant and Vince Gill? Have you? I am sure Gary Chapman has forgiven her and I hope Vince's Wife has forgiven him but they've done horrible things to their families (Vince and Amy). Personally, I pray for his dad to change and become a decent dad and put his son in a much higher position in his life than he occupies. I pray that his dad sees what he's done and that two, now two, kids are affected by his lack of morality. And I hope for change.

I am out of this equation. I left it to God a long while back. Personally, I don't think putting too much energy into any communication with him, other than about my child and parenting, is good. And we are divorced. And a future reconciliation would be an almost insurmountable hurdle as I don't know if I could ever get past as a woman or even think I could be with someone who did the things they once did or fathered another child. But I leave the miracles up to God not me.

And I am taking your words very kindly. But I don't know if you know me really. I am healing and alot of times I come here to vent. Lately I've been doing awesome. I go to a smaller church here and do have good friends. It's a matter of overcoming about three years of physical emotional verbal, and adultery abuse. All from him. And I've even come to understand fully that the man I once loved was never the man I believed him to be. He did this once before to his first wife when I did not know him. Married briefly but he cheated on her. And then he did same thing to me years later. So it is not in his nature to be a good husband.

What I am trying to get over is the controlling by him. Two weeks ago he made big deal over trying to get me to go back to work for him. Then he does the attempt to come over personally and deliver the first half of the child support check and lied to his OW/preggo mom to be of his child saying that "he was going out to pick up dinner to go" and instead came over here. I did not let him in and he chickened out but I heard enough to know what he was doing. He does nothing unless it is for his benefit.

Nothing. The perceived kindness on his part is either in hopes of controlling or getting something in return from me. There is no random act of kindness on his part. He is not changed in any way and is doing same stuff to OW also.

Also, after my sis called I got advice I needed pretty much. She said I allowed him to hurt me by trying to give him or assign to him any semblance of the values I have as a person and as somebody with faith. She said that I have to not ever assume anything and that I was probably right 100 percent about his wanting to control..

My sis said that she thinks maybe with her being so preggo and his track record (he went so far that one weekend after my son and I left that house two years ago) he flew first xw into town from Dallas and she spent the night with him at my home. I found out two months later about that.

My sis thinks he's trying to pave the way for a shack up with me. And I think that hurt too because of all I went through and how I do value marriage.

And I went to over a year of counseling and they told me that I would need to finally get angry. Just vent. They thought MB was a safe place to do so and then they said "just work out a little". There wasn't much more love to bury and they helped me realize more about me and ironically they said I was pretty good and definitely not insane and then she said that unless it became a serious crisis that I would be very very fine (two counselors seconded her) and that I was for sure sane and only problem would be to ride the waves in the future when Jethro pulls more stunts. They said to expect that. My counselor, lead one, was a Presbyterian and for sure Christian and very hardline and tough on me which is what I needed.

I have trouble when he tries the controlling bit. However, lately he has been giving son back to me more and more and I assume that's because he doesn't have time to care for her (OW)'s child and a pregnant woman and a five year old too. Gotta be hard even if you were a stable family. So he's been handing son back over to me more even though I do have more time with son as per decree anyway. Time and character I believe 100 percent will give my son back to me more and more each year.

Peachy,

(((((BIG HUGS))))))

Feelings always have roots. This last piece of the puzzle to your feelings is apparent now, where before, I was missing the emotional hang-over you have for the low-life formerly known as Mr Peachy.

1. Violence imprint on the psychie makes his prevaling behavior threatening to you.

2. You share a son, and with the liberal visitation he has, the times you feel the most vulnerable to his behavior is when he has your son in his mockery of a family while you sit home alone.

3. His patterns of Narcissism tell you what he's after next, which leaves you feeling horrified and frightened.

As competent as you are, as devout as you are, you don't feel that God protected you from harm the last time, so truly cleansing forgiveness isn't possible, as that would mean surrendering to God that wariness and self-protection to a degree. Your grief work is not yet complete and your anger serves as a protection to you.

Targets for growth would probably include:

1. Becoming a lady filled with grace - the true southern woman who allows no one the privilege of besting her for graceful, kind, compassionate behavior, but at the same time, those who have harmed and crossed her know full well that this public persona is something they will never be able to crack, control or undo.

2. Eventually, you know that Ms BF is going to be a victim like you are, only she went into this with full knowledge of witnessing the man "formerly known as Mr. Peachy" deteriorate into his evil, abusive, present persona - now unwillingly known as Mr. BF. How long is that pretty picture going to last before she's tossed down the same flight of stairs as you were? Let us pray for the unborn child coming into this home with such parents.

3. Blessed with grace, you focus on competent, capable and fulfilled woman that you are. Enjoy the times you have your son; and develop a strategy of strength for the times you don't - because that seems to be the only time he hurts you.

JustPeachy, Well, I'm not surprised at your reply and pretty much expected it.

I am at a loss as to why you post here though? Or what it is you are looking for?

If you are only wanting to update your friends, why then do you not email them vs. posting at this site? If you are only wanting to vent, why not just email those friends who vent with you? I'm not sure I understand why you post your updates/vents on a public website if you are only looking for a certain response and if you "don't take kindly" to responses that you don't want to hear or don't agree with.

Of course I don't know you well! Are you only wanting to hear from those who know you well? If that is the case, I again wonder why then you don't email them? Why would you post on an anonymous public website if you don't want "bad" advice from those who don't know you?? This came up in the last post, I believe, where quite a few people were trying to advise you and you (and another woman... can't remember who... I think KaylaAndy but am not sure) became very angry with them.

As you've noticed, alot of us don't post to you anymore. I know that I don't.. intentionally. Because I know what your reply will be. However, I made an attempt this time, with a sincere desire to help you. It took me a long time to write what I did and I knew my attempt might be in vain, but I tried anyways because I see a hurting woman and do feel compassion for you.

Many people have tried to advise you (awhile back in that other post where several people all said the same thing) but you have often become aggravated, defensive, and seem to be swimming in a very very deep pool of self-pity. You continue to "rehash" the past and all that "jethro" has done to you. It always is about what he's done, what he's doing, what she's done, what she's doing, what he did to first wife, what he's doing to son, what she did, etc. I'm not sure if you can see this, and I hope that someday you'll be able to. And let me tell you, I myself have struggled GREATLY with "letting go" of my ex-husband and his wrongs. It is not easy to not relive them or be angry about them, etc. No one is saying you're some bad or "insane" person because it's hard. Our human minds can only handle so much.

What exactly do you want to hear?

What are you looking for?

Just be honest with yourself.

Your posts are very, very long-- all about "jethro" and the other woman, filled with all sorts of comments about them which reveal a truckload of bitterness/anger/resentment/hatred and perhaps jealousy that you are dealing with. Alot of us have been there or are still there. And alot of people want to HELP you but you won't receive it. You continue to dwell in it. And this comes from someone who is very, very good at sitting and dwelling!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm not pointing a finger at you.

My purpose in writing you was not to question whether you've forgiven or not. It was simply to offer you some encouragement and counsel, which I assumed was perhaps what you wanted when you posted.

I have no doubt that your husband did some terrible things and hurt you very badly. People are capable of doing very vile things. But this is not a competition as to whose story is worse. It's about healing, letting go, forgiving, etc.

Forgiveness often takes alot of time. It doesn't usually happen overnight and often, you have to re-forgive. I think we all struggle with forgiveness. It's not easy, not natural, and not even very popular. But it's freeing (just as ex-Buttercup pointed out).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am taking your words very kindly. But I don't know if you know me really.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did not expect or foresee that you would. But I decided to write anyways with the hopes that maybe.. .just maybe, you'd hear. And, of course I don't know you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> This is the internet and this is a public, anonymous website. There's alot of people here who don't really know you.. or me for that matter. That's the downside of the net!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I am trying to get over is the controlling by him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, maybe others can help you better than me. I tried, and obviously, it's not well-received and I don't believe it will be until you reach the place where you are ready to receive it. That's okay. I don't regret trying, but I will probably refrain from attempting to do so again since it does take time.

God bless and I hope you receive what it is you are looking for. I truly do.

<small>[ December 21, 2003, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

I gave you my response and it is simple. Pretty much I thought this was a safe place to vent ok...

And I shall keep my opinions for now to myself about my life. I thought this whole forum, maybe I was quite mistaken, was about being divorced. Yea, I post to my friends here. And I asked ONE question. Why was I feeling hurt?

And the answer came from my sister and the one I needed. It was because he was still trying to control me and there has been little he can do but I have over come alot in the last 3 years.

I disagreed with you. Were you the victim of abuse or violence and not just adultery? I am not sure if you were. But I was. And I am healing.

And there is not a band aid for every survivor for this and certainly not a textbook cure all that all counselors or shrinks or whatnot will give.

Why in the heck do I have to keep explaining myself? I have ALREADY forgiven him. But I am healing and am in a phase where I finally have gotten mad.

Anybody here know the Kubler Ross grief cycle? Well after we cycle through the phases, we end in acceptance. Seems my last phase is the anger phase, sometimes infused with laughter as that's how I look at life. I try to find the irony and get through it.

And do I want to heal? Heck yes. And I am going forward and have done so.

You know, it sounded to me like you were asking me NOT to post here or only to POST TO MY FRIENDS HERE. I don't ask anybody to do that.

I thought the purpose of coming here and the whole reason I came here in the whole dad gum first place was ON THE SUGGESTION OF MY COUNSELOR WHO SAID THIS IS A GOOD PLACE TO GET THINGS OFF YOUR CHEST AND FIND OTHERS WHO HAVE GONE THROUGH IT WITH YOU AND GET SOME SUPPORT.

And I did alot. I emailed through the just found out to plan a and b to the divorced forum when he did not show any sign of change or wanting to change whatsoever. Then he knocked me down several times and then finally down two spiral staircases. So I stayed in the divorced forum and went forward but sadly. I grieved for what I thought I had. And then he got worse. Took my son last year for ten days and blackmailed me, didn't pay us for six months, and then broke into my home this last may and got arrested. Then lied about all of his income and where his monies were and financially hurt his son and I. So that's quite possibly why I still have some venting to do. Oh yea, then his mistress gets preggo. And I am trying to just get to know me again and move forward and put this stuff behind me. And I kept posting and also encouraging others who went through same stuff and if I could help anybody out I have tried to do so in my spare time here. Then sometimes I got some people who didn't know or really understand me or my sitch and tell me things like "you could become violent to OW or Jethro" when it was the other way around...completely.

What did I want to hear? Easy. An answer to my question. Why was I feeling hurt? Answer was received. Because I was feeling controlled again by him.

And tonight btw...I got my answer as to why he wanted me to come over to my old house to pick up the check.

IN HIS DRIVEWAY WAS A BRAND NEW MERCEDES CONVERTIBLE.

It's either guilt or his being NPD and wanting to have me see what I am supposedly missing.

Funny thing is after I drove away from what was once my dream house I did not cry. I didn't do anything. I kinda understood what was up. And it did not get to me like I thought it would.

So maybe I shouldn't post here as much and maybe I should just alert my friends here about this...

What I haven't gotten from some people is a "hey you are moving along". Some know that but there are a few, very few who don't ever post anything positive to me. And that's ok. It's easier sometimes to tell somebody what they should do rather than see that they've come some ways ahead in their life.

It is kinda simple with me here. I have vented at times because I felt safe here. Guess that people who need to vent and come here because they think this is the only place that those who've gone thru the horror of divorce due to adultery and other things may ought to rethink coming here. I thought it was safe. And I thought it was ok to ask a question here and see if you get an answer to the question instead of a dissection of a perceived notion about who I am and what it is that I am doing. All I asked was a question. That is all.

Best of wishes.

<small>[ December 21, 2003, 09:21 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

In case some in this thread didn't see my reply to peachy's other thread...

"Yep, peachy, anger was the last thing for me. I got SOOOOOOOO angry. It was like a dam burst, and I sent a caustic email or two and haf some heated phone converations. It has to come out, or it festers in you, and then you are never able to let go. After a couple of outbursts, I felt so much better, and I felt release. Some things just have to be said to men like ours, peachy. But then I decided that I was going to just be totally neutral in dealings with X, and I manage that most of the time.

You vent all you want here peachy. It has to be said, you have to release it, and this is (or should be) a safe place to do it.

Not that I still don't feel anger now from time to time...watching my kids get into the car with X and Clicketty Clack yesterday to go to a family function, playing 'happy families' for all the world to see did not thrill me. So I yelled some choice words at the pair of them through the window (no, they didn't hear, they were in the car by then) and cried a litle. But I think my reaction was totally normal, since they have the kids from now until the 28th and this is my first Christmas without my babies.

But although I got angry, it did not consume me like it used to. I distracted myself by going shopping, and then went to church in the evening. You will get to this point, too, and like redhat and I you will be able to say "I will NOT let them hurt me one second more of my life". And when you can say that, you will feel much more in control of the whole thing, and more at peace. But it takes time.

And by the way, you ARE starting to get funny over this, ya know.....the Brad Pitt thing, lmao! It's a good sign."

To ALL the posters here who keep telling peachy to 'get over it already'. REMEMBER that grief is an individual process, and ALL of it has to be let out for recovery to occur. Get off her back! Just because you guys may have gotten over it quicker, just because you are Christians (and so am I, btw) and just because YOU think enough time has passed does NOT give you the right to make her feel this way. PEACHY is the one to know when it will be over for her...and until it is IT IS OUR JOB to encourage her in her new life and to listen when she vents, NOT JUDGE! Where else is she gonna be able to say these things and receive perfect understanding from people who KNOW what it is that has happened to her? Look at her most recent thread....you hounded her off the boards <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> .

No I do not believe that 'holding on' or allowing the X to still have an effect on us forever is healthy, but maybe some of you haven't been paying attention to the GROWTH Peachy has HAD to do, just like the rest of us. It may be taking a different path from your own growth, and it may be taking longer, but HEY....give credit where it is due. Who made you guys the judges of just how long this process should take? This woman has come far, so please, as I said before, get off her back.

Love and light,

Jacky

Amen, Jackie.

I was grateful to see her sister's insight to his behavior because that details the depth of the threat still at Peachy.

I doubt she saw my response at all, because LME has been after Peachy - granted, sometimes her advice has merit, but lacking sufficient understanding for the depth of psychological warfare that Peachy has endured - very few have encountered this magnitude of evil.

Again, I notice the correlation to the days that Peachy posts her progress, where she's able to move past the behavior of her ex - and focus on rebuilding her life - which she has done admirably. And then I notice now that the only really bad, fearful days that she has is when she has to turn her son over to someone who is a threat to his spirit and hers.

No doubt missed or overlooked by those with a bit more zeal than empathy to help Peachy put all the pieces together.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thanks Jacky, for saying what I was thinking.

This is a very tough time of year, and Peachy is going thru it first time as a divorced female after a very long and stressful struggle. Lets all cut her some slack. Please remember, we're not all cookie cutter when it comes to healing. There is no standard egg timer we can use that tells us it's time for Peachy to be healed.

I see she makes progress and then backslides, just like the rest of us. It [Divorce] is one of THE hardest things to go thru.

Several books and experts equate it to worse than death of a spouse. So when she understandably expresses bitterness or anger, perhaps compassionately think of it in those terms, she's experienced a death, "of her marriage".

God Bless All,
Jo

<small>[ December 21, 2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

Everytime people that are not "friends" of Peachy's (and even some that are) attempt to counsel her to "move on" or "let go" or "forgive" and they share with her how they see her stuck in her pain, this very thing happens. Certain peole come in and all say "lay off" and make comments about how Peachy's being judged, how we don't know her, etc. That is why very few people post to her. They get called judgemental every time that they do try to give her constructive advice.

As for not knowing her, then wouldn't that put Dr. Phil out of business? He doesn't "know" any of the people he counsels yet he does so, and when they listen, he is successful in helping them. Sometimes the people who are not close friends and family can be the best counselors because they see things more objectively.

<small>[ December 21, 2003, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

LMX,

I was the first few poster reply to a mopping BW back then as not so peachy in GA. She has come a long way, believe me.

I know you don't have ill intention so does everyone that had posted here in this thread. However we are not trained conselor, we give out our opinions not advices. If it is declined you should understand that people has a choice to use what has worked for them. Not all situation are the same plus the individual involved in it too.

BTW ... a conselor has years of training & experince to help.

-rh-