Many of you are going to SCREAM at me. But I did invite my X over to my mothers for dinner. Many of you know that my dad died almost 2 years ago from cancer. I talked with the kids, and said this was going to be our last year together. So we would invite dad over to open x-mas gifts together. Which was fine, he was welcome to come and sit and watch the OLDER (all 4) kids, open their gifts.

My mother was having x-mas dinner, and 2 of the kids and I helped her prepare the dinner last night. An old polish traditional (city chicken) dinner. I was talking to my mom, and I told the kids it was up to them to ask my mom if dad could come. But no one did I guess. Cause I talked to my mom, and asked her, and no one said anything to her. So I asked her if it was okay if X came. She said it was up to me. That if I wanted him to come it was fine. I said, this will be the last year mom, for him to participate in family. I told her that there have been boundaries, and I am feeling okay about hte boundaries now.

So I came home and told 2 of the kids to invite dad for dinner tomorrow. So on the way to church, I called X and said, you are invited, and he accepted. I just didn't understand completely why the kids didn't invite their dad. I know that the kids are hurting, and this is difficult for all of us. So I invited him, and it was okay to hear him say yes he will attend.

Later I asked X if he thanked my mother for the dinner. And he said it was up to him and my mother. Which it was, but I was curious. He did say yes he did. I said that was good. All I wanted to know is that my mother was thanked for the dinner, for she made the comment that it was all up to me to have him come or not.

I didn't expect any thanks towards me for asking to see if he was invited. I feel that was just one of those taken for granted things.

We all had a beautiful dinner, and played cards and games afterwards. It was good, a little constrained, having X there. But I talked to him very little. Maybe said a few words, but that was it. And when I received a really great book, he talked to me about a few of the pictures.

I want to say, I am SO GLAD this christmas is over with. I am SO GLAD that I don't have to worry about this ever again. Thanks giving is over, Christmas is over. I shouldn't say this, cause the real meaning is still in my heart. But this was a really difficult year, and my anger came out tonight. But I AM TRULY GLAD it is over!

Many of you know who X is. And he got into a discussion of relationships with our oldest daughter. Our oldest daughter is 25 1/2 years of age. And about a friend of hers, that is not going to go into intimate relationship. And I saw what many of you say here, he has no gray area, it is either black or white. Someone is either a sociopath, are narcisstic person.

I tried to express myself, about how you try to give someone the benefit of the doubt. The young man she is seeing, is not one that she will end up with for the rest of her life. This man has many good qualities. But he has many issues with his being raised as an unloved child. And I think the young man is starting to feel comfortable around us, including the X. I sat at the table, and tried to express my feeling, that X is not a psychiatrist. He says, he reads books, and has a good grasp on personalities, and such. But he is black and white. A person of this trait, has little to forgiving people. I expressed to him that an opinionated person, which is in a book he got today for christmas, will not beable to have a substantial marriage relationship. For he cannot accept the other person for who they are. We got into his other woman. And of course that deteriated into an argument. Cuase once again, I heard nothing wrong about her. But he did say to me, I don't tell the truth. Well, X, I do tell the truth, and I don't lie to the government. And I do tell the Drs. the truth. I am truthful with everyone. Even him. I choose to tell him what I want, and if I don't want to tell him, I just don't say anything or say, it is not information that I wish to give him. That is the thing about counseling, is that I give people too much information. And like the X said to me about MB, that it is on the side of being a cult. Well, MB is not a cult, but he can't accept people going against his words. Like tonight, when things get hot, he won't let the other person talk. And butts in the conversation frequently. He doesn't seem to listen. And I tried to understand him, but I saw him again as black and white. I kept thinking why doesn't he give people the benefit of the doubt. Anyways, YES I invited my X to dinner and fun. I hope he had a good time. But now he is totally on his own. That is divorce, that is a family of no unit anymore. And it hurts, but that is WHAT HE WANTED anyway. He has it, and yes it hurts both of us, and especially the kids. But they will be moving out soon, and I will get my own small little habitat home.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And you wonder why you can't get him out of your life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Cinderella - I did it cause he had no where else to go, and the kids wanted him to go. It was wierd that the kids didn't ask grandma. I did the action myself of asking my mother if she would mind. She doesn't like what her xSIL has done with his sexual affair and all. She doesn't like that he injured me (her daughter) to have surgery on my shoulder. She doesn't like some of XSIL actions. She did say which I have said to her many times, without my X, I would not have these 4 wonderful children in my life. I gave birth to these 4 kids, and I am so GLAD that God gave me these 4 gifts.

Cinderella - I am one that cares about others and their feelings. I care very much about my childrens emotions and health. They come to me if they are having something physically wrong with them. I care about my MIL, as much as my mother. I love my MIL, and I love my mother. I do care about my X, and wish that he would see what he has turned into. But I am leaving this up to God.

I do believe, that God would of wanted me to ask my mother, even though the kids didn't. So I talked to God at night, and asked for his help. And I believe that is what God would of wanted me to do.

He did get me a nice gift, which I wanted, cause he and the one daughter went shopping together, and she told him what I wanted. I did get him 2 gifts, that I thought would be useful for him in his new home whenever he moves into his own place. It was not the gift giving that I really cared about, it was just having him enjoy the holidays with his kids, and not really with me. I know he doesn't care about me one iota. I am just another burden to him, like his mother. But there will be a time, that he doesn't have to give me anything, but my alimony. No childsupport coming this summer after my son turns 18. And then all he has to worry about is alimony, which shouldn't be a problem with the income he makes.

Don't you think Cinderella that God would of wanted for him to see and enjoy the kids with gift giving, and playing games and eating a fine dinner? I do, and I feel he had a good time.

f4m,
I think your kids not asking your Mother if their Dad could come for Christmas meant that they didn't really want him there. Your kids arn't little anymore and you need respect what they want.

I hope you were clear to him why he was invited because it seems to me like you are sending alot of mixed signals.

I'm not flaming you at all. I have followed your story for a long time and I know how hard this has been for you. If this was just a letting go thing then that is great. We all have to let go in our own way.

Jill

I really don't think the kids didn't want him there, I just think they were afraid to ask my mother. Not sure, but in side that is what I think. My mom doesn't like what has happened to me, and the injury. If my X was to go to my mother and say I am sorry that I injured your daughter, there might be some better feelings. But she knows that I suffer daily. And she doesn't even know about the 2nd upcoming surgery yet. I don't want to upset her, until it is all set and ready to go. Just will upset her more. My mom is a loving woman, and will give and give. She is headstrong, and she and X clash. Cause X is very headstrong too. As you have read many of his messages, he will do what he wants when he wants. No one is going to tell him what to do.

The one thing is that, X is very opinionated. and according to the book I read, a person of this degree is going to have a hard time finding a relationship with anyone. For he doesn't want to give. He wants things his way only. I did give and give. I gave so many times, just stating to myself that he is the head of the house. But I wanted to be treated like an equal. We could of had a great relationship if he had treated me like an equal instead of putting me down. I see what he is doing to his mother now, and she is getting exactly what I did for 25 years.

She tells him off, cause she said, she is not married to him. And that is good. She is setting boundaries with him right off. Maybe that is what I should of done. But I was the meek one and tyring to keep the boat afloat.

My X isn't a bad guy at all. He has some issues to deal with and he needs to see counseling. There are many signs that I see now that he is a missile ready to take off if things don't go his way. But until he realizes that he is like this, there is no way he will search for hhelp for himself.

Just hate to see this family so torn apart, and hte kids are hurting emensely.

I didn't really feel I sent him mixed messages. I just put it out on the table as is. I said if it wasn't for me, you would of not been invited to the dinner. No thank you, but you know what, I didn't expect it this time. Cause he can't say thankyou to me. He can't say I appreciate all the time and effort you take. So I didn't expect it. And this time it rolled off my shoulders and I continued on.

The kids all gave grandma a big hug and said thankyou for the wonderful dinner.

Anyways, that is why I invited him, cause I felt sorry for him, (but I know I shouldn't cause he created this mess). But I did, and that is it. No more christmases with him. From now on he does christmas witht eh kids at his house, and i do christmas with the kdis at my house. We are not a family, we don't do anything together. He doesn't invite me to dinner and movies. But I did invite him to dinner at my house. But no more. Cause I am nothing to the X. Yeah it hurts, but I am moving on.

Oh, has anyone tried e-harmony for dating? I have been reading the site and am really interested in finding a guy to communicate with. I have one now, but there is nothing between us that goes past talking about original conversation. I want someone that talks more deeply, and is family oriented. Just wondering if anyone has tried this site? Would like to know?

<small>[ December 26, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: jillybean36 ]</small>

faith4me,

I hope I speak for the MB community here when I say that we are not going to scream at you for inviting X over for dinner. However, I want you to try to see this from our point of view:

One day, you write here how you WISH you could get him out of your life and he keeps pushing his way back into your life and tries to be controlling and hurts you...

The next day, you write here that you INVITED him over and you feel sorry for him!!

Can you see how those would look kind of conflicting to us?? To me?? Frankly, what I think in my head is: "I know why you can't get him to stop controlling you...you keep inviting him right on into your life to do it!"

Here's my thought, sweety. You are a kind, loving, gentle, sweet woman and you don't want to hurt anyone...even the man who hurt you. Trust me, I get that because I've been there too. But inside yourself you need to take some time off to figure out what works for you and where YOU draw the line, and then stand by that line like your life depended on it. What I mean is this...I don't particularly want to hurt, fight with, or rage at my exH either. Ideally, I would like to get along with him. HOWEVER, as a controller, he does not understand the concept of mutuality or equality--to him either someone is the winner or the loser...either the boss or the peone.

Soooo...I knew that in order to stop dancing the same old dance and stop being taken advantage of and stop doing things the same old way, THAT I HAD TO STOP DOING THE SAME OLD THINGS! For example, once we were having a parenting discussion about what to do with our OS who was skipping school. Mr. Controlling ExH said he was going to do it HIS way and that I *HAD* to cooperate with HIS plan blah, blah, blah. Now the old me would have said, "He's just so mean and doesn't care about what I think at all!" (whining a little). But the NEW me said, "No. This is MY house and custody was given to ME by the court for a reason. I will not have you dictate your rules in my house. I will listen to your suggestions and if I agree we can negotiate something." Well, Mr. Controller heard that and gave up. In my mind, I stood up and made him treat me equally and respectfully as the parent with custody. In his mind, he was the loser, so he gave up and pouted.

Faith4me, sometimes as we mature and watch our kids grow up, the kids make poor choices for which they have to pay the consequences. As parents, it is hard for us to sit back and let them "serve their time" for the choice that they made. But it is the most loving thing we can do to teach them that decisions have consequences. This is also true in a divorce situation. When my exH is sick, I do not bring him chicken soup anymore (even though I would have gladly waited on him hand and foot when we were married)--because the consequence of choosing the mistress over his family is NO ONE IS THERE TO TAKE CARE OF HIM WHEN HE'S SICK. He made that choice, not me.

I know you are a kind Christian lady, but you are harming yourself and your exH by not giving him the opportunity to endure the consequences of his choices. One consequence of choosing divorce is that you will sometimes be alone on holidays--without your children and without a home-cooked meal and without presents. If he did not want to be alone, he could have chosen to work on the marriage! But he didn't!

Now faith4me, you be brave. It is the most loving thing you can do for a person to give them the priviledge of enduring the consequences of their actions. It is LOVING to behave that way!! By not letting him feel that choices have consequences, you are not letting him have the chance to grow and change. So, faith4me--stop it. I know you want to be a kind, loving, good Christian woman, but you can be those things and still be true to yourself and still let him suffer the consequences. Does that make sense??

Now, in this particular instance, what are some other choices you could have made? The situation was that it was Christmas...your mom made a warm, home-made family meal...your kids were going to open presents...you and your ex are divorced...and he did not have other plans. How could you have handled it differently AND still be true to yourself and be a kind, godly woman??

Here are some ideas to get your brainstorming started:

1) You could have wished him "Merry Christmas" on the phone and told him when the kids were available to come to his house to open his presents.

2) You could have kept a tupperware plate of the dinner and sent it with the kids when they went to visit their father.

3) You could have asked him what his plans were, and when he said he had none, said, "Well, I hope you enjoy the peace and quiet"

4) You could have let him see the kids from 6-8pm the next day while you were out of the house, and called to make sure he was gone before you returned home.

5) You could have invited him to see the kids at a certain event and it was his job to take them home after the event.


Do you see my point here? There are LOTS of different ways you could have stayed true to being a kind person and even been flexible about him seeing the kids a little extra for Christmas...without having to invite him to the dinner etc. Are you seeing that a little??

So, what are some of your ideas?? How else could you have handled it?

My exH took my kids to Disney World on Christmas Eve until the day before New Years Eve, so I've been alone. I used the time to do things *I* want to do that I can't do when the kids are home. Before he left, one night was "his" night to have our YD--and at first I thought: "Are you kidding?? You're taking them away for almost a WEEK and you want to take your visit night??" Then I realized something...he had no other way to spend the holidays, and I felt a little bad for him. I decided that my relationship with my kids is rock solid enough, and it wasn't worth a battle. But it was MY decision within myself, and I did not let him "make" the decision or force me. I did what I thought was right and what felt right to me.

Faith4me, be BRAVE. What feels "right" within you?? Being kind is a GREAT quality!! How can you be a kind person (be the kind of person you want to be) without letting that controller wedge his way in there?? Talk to me...write to me. Tell me your ideas. Kick it around a little and see if you can think of some different ways to be kind but be firm. okay???

Love ya!!


CJ

F4M,

I think your children didn't invite him because they were prepared to bite the bullet. They may have wanted the "old family" together for Christmas this one last time, but the "old family" is gone and it sounds as though they've accepted it.

I know you need time to do this at your own pace. I've been over the top frustrated with your reticence to let him go - he's not the Mr. Wonderful you remember him to be - I have my doubts that he ever was, as I have read his own words and philosophies for myself, not just taking your word for it.

At the same time, I realize how hard it is to let go of the old romanticized notion that somehow, the poison will withdraw and Prince Charming will emerge.

I hope someday you are ready to prepare to meet a REAL prince. But that won't happen any time soon. I get the feeling there will be another Christmas you take pity on the serpent and take him into your home and hearth, only to be bitten again by his cruelty and wonder why he hurt you when you were only being kind.

Someday you'll be able to hear the actual words, "You knew what I was before you picked me up!" He can't help himself.

<small>[ December 26, 2003, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

Kaylandy - I see your point. Yes, he philosophies all the time. And there is a point I saw in him yesterday. No matter what anyone else thinks or says, he is always right. He doesn't have a gray middle, he is either black or white. He told me yesterday that he is very opinionated. And he is very strong in that area. I agreed, and I read some material yesterday that is in one of the books he got, and one with this strong characteristic will never have a agood marriage. Cause his spouse will never meet his expectations. And I never could meet his expectations, even bending backwards wasn't good enough for him. For I never could do right by his mind. I was always at fault. He blamed me for so many things in our marriage. I see that now. I know I was a great mother. I tried being a great wife, and lover. But he pushed me into things instead of POJA'ing.

Faithfulwife - Yes, I got entrapped in his woe is me thingy. I see it now. I was just trying to be kind and show him that I still care. Cause, I don't want to see anyone so unhappy during this season that is suppose to be full of joy and happiness. Can't say I was happy, just went through the actions. My oldest son friend came over tonight, and he said he is glad Christmas is over. I told him, this was not a good christmas season, and very depressing and that I am glad it is over too. I see now, that I did make an error. Faitfulwife, why didn't I see it before. I did get defensive when others were telling me that I am still allowing him to control my life. I did it again. and I am sorry. I really didn't mean to do it, but I did. I guess I am such a wimp. You could say, I probably am somewhat like his mother. His mother does let him rule her around. She doesn't like it, and she does stand up to him. But I can see where I am doing like she has done.

Where is my backbone? Where is my brain? Maybe I am sitting on it? Maybe I am that no good F&&&&&& B**** that he called me for years and while he was spitting in my face. Well, I would like to know why God didn't show this to me earlier. Will have to talk to Pastor Jim about this one. I will see him Sunday, and call tomorrow for a consultation visit after service. What an idiot I am, what a stupid moron.

Seems like I am starting to get a hold of myself, and then I fail again. Guess it is part of the growing process of failing and then getting back on my feet again. I did ask X to take his things to his house yesterday at night, but he didn't want to. There was a little spat about that. So when son went to grandmas house to work on the house (where X lives), I asked the son to take dads gifts to the house. Son said sure, and I cleaned the living room up after the son left.

Faithfulwife - I am in counseling, and see that I really need a lot of counseling still. Why doesn't the X go to counseling? When he was here yesterday, he sat in the chair, and said to me, he reads a lot of books on relationships, personality, and he is very good at these things. He is really getting a big ego about this. I see this being very destructive to my kids. I got defensive with him and our daughters going out. My daughter is 25 years of age. I already talked to her about this relationship. But you know now, I see, that the X didn't even ask me about the relationship date she was going to have. He didn't even ask if I talked to her. Cause he doesn't think I am worth anything at all in relationships. I am getting it now. She met this guy on the internet and was meeting him at a mall. I see that the X doesn't even consider that I might have already talked with my daughter. He just completely ignored that I am a parent. He decided to take his role of telling daughter about Narcisstic and sociopath people. I sat at the table and made my two cents. But you could see that X wasn't really interested in what I had to say. He would cut in even before I could finish a statement. And you could see he was already thinking about what he was going to say, even before he listened to what I had to say. I see this pattern in the past. Now I see. Also, he told me, all these years and you still don't know who I am. Another dig, to show me that I am the one at fault. I am the one that can't get a grasp at anything. I am the one that he finds a failure. Another putting me down, telling me how inadequate I am. How I am nothing to him and could never be anything to him. Also, when I was talking to my MIL today. She said he does the same to her, and she just cuts him off or walks awaynow. She said there is no way she is going to entangle herself in a debate with him, cause you can never when with him. That is what has happened to me most of the marriage. I never could win, even with x-mas buying for the kids. When they received gifts from family, and we lived out of town. I had to gather the gifts and return quite a few of them. He used the kids bonds that they got before they matured and cashed them in. He cashed my life insurance in that my parents bought for me when I was a baby. My brother and I are twins and they bought this for us when we were babies. But he didn't even think about my feelings. Didn't even think about what my mother and father did to protect me if I should die and provide a ways of burying my body. I have no life insuurance now. Cause he closed his and mine out during the divorce. But the judge ordered him to reinstill his at the same amount. And that took time him many months to do.

Gosh, why am I so stupid. I keep falling into his games, and I am so vulnerable.

Faithfulwife - I wish to write to you to help me along. I wish to get this right. I don't have counseling this week cause of the holidays. But I do have counseling Monday. Also, I have to seek a Dr. for surgery on the left shoulder, which I didn't tell my mother. I don't want to upset her anymore than she is. I wish, that my X, would go to her and tell her he is so sorry for everything that he has done. But that is not the type of person the X is. Anyways, I guess I am just so wore out with trying to keep the house going, the kids safe, the kids fed, and just trying to be here for them. Today, I finally was given a big portion of the day to myself. I washed my bedding, and cleaned up some of the house. Talked to 2 frineds on the phone, and decided to come talk to my other friends here.

I also, want to tell everyone, that I am telling the truth. No matter what the X says, I know God knows the truth. And I can imagine how he told you all the incident of him tearing my shoulder. And spitting in my face while calling me a f*cking b*tch. And the inadequate sexualness of my body.

But you know, if God wants, he will provide me with a very christian loving man that sees me as a princess and I see him as a prince. If that is what God wants for me. Otherwise, I will proceed on with school, and work on myself. My self esteem is low. My husband really has destroyed a lot of self-esteem. He is doing it to my MIL. And I talked to her about it again today. She knows she is still sound in mind, but X tells her she is losing it. And he is yelling at her when she answers the business phone. Cause no one can do it right. But if you were to see how he handles the phones, and goes ballistic, that is okay. You know, maybe he is narcisstic. Could he be? Or a sociopath? Who knows. All I know, he is way overboard on personality types, and pushing his ideas and views on everyone and still goes ballistic too easily. A person, who can state without neglecting the other persons views is fine. But X didn't really hear what I had to say. All I was stating to him last night was that our daughter has a good sense to her head. I did talk to the daughter, but you know, the X didn't even see me. Didn't even hear my words. Just continued on the path that he is good at this and everyone should listen to him.

Maybe I am being critical. I think I will stop now. Seee everyone tomorrow night. I am going out of town to see an old frined that I haven't talked to probably since summer or before. I really don't know how long its been, but I received a call last night, and was very surprised. So I am driving out to visit, and taking my time and going to talk to God.

I love this verse: I John 4:16-17 Love ya all.

Faithfulwife - I would love to write to you, thank you for helping me see what an idiot I have been again. I now see that I am so much like my father, he was a kind man, a loving man, an animal lover, a gentle man. He didn't want to rock the boat, and that is exactly what I didn't want to do either. My prayer tonight, Thank you Lord, for I made it through this holiday season. I know Lord, that this is the season to be joyous in Jesus birth. I realize this Lord, and that has become the strength of my life. I still am having difficulty with the gift giving, and being with family and friends. I feel, these people see me as being the divorced one. The one that couldn't save her marriage. The one that lost a husband. Low self-esteem words my Lord. This is where I need your help Lord. I realize that Jesus is my savior my Lord. I love you Lord, with every molecule of my heart and body. Please help me Lord to become more of you, and not of Satan. Please help me Lord to move on without my X in my heart. Lord look over him, and be there when he repents and asks for forgiveness. Amen.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did it cause he had no where else to go </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith4me, NO, you did it because you still refuse to face reality. You did it for YOU, not him or anyone else. You've become addicted to the ongoing drama.

And while we are at it, where was HIS mother for Christmas? All alone? Didn't feel up to inviting his poor, mistreated by him, mother to a nice dinner too?

Let's face it. If he really was no longer around, as a divorce should enforce (especially a divorce of Christians), you would have very little to post about here on MB. You'd be at the point of moving forward with your life instead of being stuck on "instant replay" or a continuous playing of "oldies but goodies."

YOU invited him to your mother's house KNOWING full well that everyone else is NOT comfortable with the adulterer around. YOU tried to play "nicey nice, but you KNEW that you and he would get into another disagreement and you'd have more fodder to post about.

Faith. YOU ARE DIVORCED. Get on with your life and stop fooling, or lying, to yourself. And DO NOT try to justify your action with feelings of "this is what God would want me to do." Even the Good Samaritan did NOT take the INNOCENT victim to his own home. He arranged for care by someone else. In your case the person is not an "innocent victim", but the perpetrator of the problem. You are merely trying to twist God's teaching into something that you can use to justify your behavior. If you truly felt like God wanted you to "reach out to someone in need" why wouldn't you reach out to your former Mother-in-law, the "other grandparent" of your children?

End it once and for all Faith. It's gone on far too long as it is.

Then start living through reading the Scripture and obeying God's commands regardless of your feelings.

<small>[ December 27, 2003, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: ForeverHers ]</small>

F4M, Please re-read your response to Faithful Wife.

In that response, I discovered the WHY you can't let go.

Your self-talk is incredibly destructive. SNL doesn't need to verbally abuse you. You do quite a job on yourself.

I don't think ANYONE believes that you are stupid, or moronish - except for the man who had great influence on your self-talk and you who continues to perpetrate on yourself.

How could you ever, EVER have a chance of believing that you are deserving of kindness and respect if you are unkind and disrespectful of yourself?

I highly recommend a book called "Smart Talk" by Lou Tice - best healing book I've read for overcoming destructive self-talk and putting in the place of that self-talk - loving and kind self-talk.


<small>[ December 27, 2003, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

F4M - your self-talk is so degrading. You are not a stupid moron.

You are, however, picking at your wounds by giving x an opportunity to be around you. And what would your mom and dr say about picking at the wounds.

It almost sounds like you are still Plan A-ing your x. And fussing because he is still around. The two are incompatible.

But the first thing you have to do is quit beating up on yourself. Tell the counselors you don't want to dwell on the old relationship any more. Tell them you want to learn to love yourself again.

Some of the most helpful things I did when trying so hard to recover were things that helped me learn to love myself.

Not so much counseling about the past or about the x. You can do nothing about them. Cast your eyes ahead. Move on. Love Yourself. Set boundaries.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Faith4me:
<strong> Faithfulwife - Yes, I got entrapped in his woe is me thingy. I see it now. I was just trying to be kind and show him that I still care. ... I see now, that I did make an error. Faitfulwife, why didn't I see it before. I did get defensive when others were telling me that I am still allowing him to control my life. I did it again. and I am sorry. I really didn't mean to do it, but I did. I guess I am such a wimp. ...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith4me...do you understand that I did not point out these things to you in order to humiliate you or make you feel dumb, but rather to show you that you are sort of stuck in a certain "pathway" of thinking.

See, when I left my exH I had this same path...it's very much like an addiciton. I was sort of addicted to the abusive treatment, and frankly I felt embarrassed when I realized that I was an addict to being treated poorly. But what would happen is that inside my head, I would talk to myself in the same old ways--the same old degrading self-talk ways that he had said out loud and that I had partially started to believe.

In order to break free of it all, do you know what I had to do?? I had to go COLD TURKEY just like an addict does!! First, for two whole weeks I did not allow myself to SEE or SPEAK to him. I can not begin to tell you how many times my mind just sort of wandered over into thinking, "Oh, I should call him about..." or "I need him to bring me..."--like a habit!! During my cold turkey breaking free from my addiction, I am somewhat embarrassed to say that the first few days, I literally had to go 15 minutes at a time not calling him or inviting him over!! I'd think of connecting with him...long for it in a weird way...and then stop myself in my head and say, "I am going to wait 15 MINUTES and not call him. Then in 15 min. I will re-evaluate."

Gosh, it's sad to think that part of me wanted to keep in touch with the abuse! It was just like a smoker longs for their cigarette or an alcoholic longs for their drink--I longed for contact even though my head knew it would lead to hurt and pain. Eventually, I had to face the fact that I wanted/invited abuse because I was "used to it" and altho it wasn't "comfortable" it was at least familiar. Being healthy and being treated well was unfamiliar and kind of scary--and being alone and relying on myself was even MORE scary!!!

F4me, you didn't see it because you have not yet trained your mind to recognize it, that's all. You'll learn.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Where is my backbone? Where is my brain? Maybe I am sitting on it? Maybe I am that no good F&&&&&& B**** that he called me for years and while he was spitting in my face. Well, I would like to know why God didn't show this to me earlier. Will have to talk to Pastor Jim about this one. I will see him Sunday, and call tomorrow for a consultation visit after service. What an idiot I am, what a stupid moron. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, Faith4me, you stop it. Right now. You are not stupid or lacking backbone or sitting on your brains!! You know as well as I do that you are a smart, brave, kind, loving, funny, pretty wonderful, precious Christian woman. Furthermore, you are a daughter of God and of the HIGHEST value to Him, and anything that is valuable to God...it's not my place to degrade! You are the dearly beloved child whom God sacrificed to be with! Does that sound stupid or weak or dumb to you?? NO!! So, I don't want to hear that kind of word come out of your mouth. BTW, I'm not yelling at you. I'm taking a magnifying glass and showing you your worth. When you speak of yourself, speak of how lovely, valuable, brave, and kind you are...and if someone else chooses to speak ill of you, then that's their problem.

Here's the thing, F4me...I know that this kind of stuff is exactly the kind of tape recording you have playing in your head. I used to hear that too--all the time--non-stop. I felt worthless, useless, ugly, unimportant, blah, blah, blah. Know how I learned how to stop this tape?? Well, after I had gone through the cold turkey, I took a small pack of Post-It-Notes and wrote GOOD stuff about me and posted them all over the house. I wrote on my mirror: "I am smart and capable" "I am beautiful and exactly what God created" "I am loved and wanted" and everytime I looked in the mirror, I said those things OUT LOUD so my ears started hearing GOOD things about me (to counteract the DECADES of my ears hearing bad things). I also started taking St. John's Wort. I'm not comfortable taking anti-depressant "pills" but an herb seemed healthy and okay, so I took it (still take it too). It stops the negative tapes in my head from running non-stop, and when they start now, I can stop myself and talk back to them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Seems like I am starting to get a hold of myself, and then I fail again. Guess it is part of the growing process of failing and then getting back on my feet again. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith4me, that is exactly right. It's part of the growing process to try something new, practice, not do so well, learn from it, and do better. Next time around, maybe you'll catch it before you fall into the snare, and you'll remember to ask yourself "How might I handle this differently?" Or maybe you'll remember that you decided not to invite him over no matter how bad you want to. You'll do better next time!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Faithfulwife - I am in counseling, and see that I really need a lot of counseling still. Why doesn't the X go to counseling? When he was here yesterday, he sat in the chair, and said to me, he reads a lot of books on relationships, personality, and he is very good at these things. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, here's a major issue. I think being addicted to your ex, even if he is abusive to you, is something that you will eventually come to understand and see, and that you'll eventually break free from just as I have. I also think that eventually you will start to see some of the little traps and snares before you fall into them. I'm pretty sure in fact! I am also fairly confident that you will gradually grow stronger and take steps to stop the negative self-talk and reprogram the talking inside your head to be positive and uplifting about yourself. After all, you have SO MUCH going for you!!

BUT...this is a pretty big issue that is really hard to do. F4me, you and SNL are DIVORCED, and do you know what that means? Think of him as the guy who bags your groceries in the grocery store. Do you expect the bagger to bring you milk, bread, or presents? Do you expect the bagger to think of your feelings? do you expect the bagger to go to counseling and face his obvious mental health issues and admit he has been an abuser all these years?? HECK NO!! You don't expect ANYTHING from the bagger!! He's just a guy there doing a job and nothing more. See how you're detached from the bagger??

Here's what I finally, finally, finally figured out, F4me. My exH is a sick, mentally ill, abusive, sexually addicted man and there is not ONE THING I can do to get him to see that or "make him" work on it. I desperately wanted him to find my valuable enough to not lose me and deal with his issues, and I was not important enough in comparison with facing his own self. I CAN NOT WISH, HELP, OR MAKE HIM GET BETTER especially if he chooses to stay sick!!!! Oh my god, I may want it with my whole heart and soul and mind, but I can not make it happen. Soooo...I have to take care of my side of the street and turn my exH over to God. By trying to WISH, HELP AND MAKE him get better, I'm actually standing in God's way, so it's better to keep my focus squarely on myself and my own issues and not even think of him.

F4me, you know of my exH, right? He is clearly on seriously troubled person. I love him, but he clearly could greatly benefit from some counseling and some soul-searching work. Right? If he could only soften his heart and admit that he is a sex addict...or admit that his bipolar rages were harmful to us...or admit that he needs a psychiatrist/psychologist for help. But, F4me, he can not bring himself to that point yet, and the more that I try to wish, help or make him, the more stubborn he becomes. I had to completely let go of him--100%. He's not my issue, concern or responsibility anymore, and I'm not throwing him to the wolves. I just need to work on my own issues of being comfortable with abuse...and feeling unloveable. If I think about him and his issues, and wonder why HE'S not in counseling--it's actually kind of an excuse for me to focus on him and not look at myself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Gosh, why am I so stupid. I keep falling into his games, and I am so vulnerable.

Faithfulwife - I wish to write to you to help me along. I wish to get this right. I don't have counseling this week cause of the holidays. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">F4me, if you want to write to me, you can write anytime to cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com. I think we can really help each other get through this, don't you?

Now, I want you to do me a favor. Write to me here on the forum about FAITH4ME. I don't want to hear one word about SNL or what he did or said or thought or forced or anything. Write to me about YOU...what did you do, or say, or think? I'll give you an example:

My kids are in Disney with my exH and while he's there he wants to meet one of our old friends...so he called me for the old friend's phone number. Well, I gave him the number and the cell phone was sorta coming and going, so I paused part way through. ExH said, "COME ON! COME ON! Get going!" and I was pissed about being spoken to that way. So I said, "The phone was cutting out so I paused, and you may not bark at me that way" and hung up. I wasn't REALLY pissed or hurt, just irritated, you know? Anyway, I felt good about not turning it into a huge argument but also not just taking it from him. I was to the point and respectful, but also brief. I felt satisfied with how I handled it and thought to myself that next time this kind of interaction happens between us, I'll probably handle it pretty similarly.

So, I'll look forward to hearing from you!


CJ

Yes, I am allowing myself to get into a trap with the X. The reason I didn't invite my MIL over was she was spending the day with a girlfriend of hers. Otherwise, she would of been at my mothers house. For she came many times before. She and I have a good relationship, and talk freely and openly. But she informed me that this year she was spending time with a friend of hers.

There is still this ugly dance that is happening. I do see where I get entrapped in his ugly game. I have come across Faithfulwife like you have strict and to the point. What you did on the phone was the right thing to do. I do hang up on X when he starts his demeaning talk. Just it triggers back to the previous years of I not able to do things his way, cooperate with him. That is one statement that he tells all of us. If we all would cooperate with him things would be so much better. And the other thing that is repeated over and over is if all of us would not ask him of anything things would be so much better.

During our marriage, things got done, in his timely fashion. And things never got done, which I am trying to get this house ready for sale with the lack of completeness.

I am streamlined towards organizaiton, and completeing projects. He starts and doesn't want to finish. My projects are listed on paper, for I do not want to spend money on finishing this house where someone else may want to put different flooring down, trim, etc.

Yes, I will contact both of you and I really appreciate the advice.

Today is my day. I am going to paint today. And tomorrow start on the files and get everything filed and in order. For school starts Jan. 12.

To those of you that know I am going to school. I figured out how to retreive my grade on the computer. And the Art History class that I was taking, I was so disgusted with myself after I received my first grade a D+. Then my second grade I received was a B. And my final grade I received was an A. So I averaged out with a B-. Not bad after 25 years of not being in school. I am SO PROUD of myself, that I was able to succeed and get a A on my final exam. This professor only had 3 total exams. I studied really hard, and am starting to realize that I went to a lot of trouble by reading the whole darn Art book, and others who were receiving A's didn't even read the book. Just took the syllabys of the day and studied that material and got good grades. I am learning how to study again, and how to take good notes. I hope to succeed this semester and get A & B's. This really gave me a lift in spirit. Cause when I got my first grade (D+) I said to myself, yep, X is right. I am the stupid F*cking B*tch. I can't do anything right. I can't even go to school and study. I am worth nothing. I even thought of at that time of just quitting and seeing if I could get a job on the factory line. But I talked to myself, and said, you started at the bottom and you can crawl that ladder and maybe end up with a C. I said to myself, yep, a C is better than a D+. And I ended up for a final grade of B-. Which is good, and now I can concentrate on this next semester.

Will be back later. Going to make a big pot of bean soup and paint my x-mas gift to my mother. An eagle that I need to see if I can get done by the end of next week. And a gift that I am giving to my youngest daughters boyfriend (painting), that I asked if she thought he would like. Bye for now, getting my bird (Solo) blue front Amazon, putting my new CD's on, (Lord of the Rings) CD's and paint and drink herbal tea. Bye for now.

Faithfulwife - I tried to e-mail you but it says that your e-mail address does not exist. So HELP!

Just sitting at home tonight. Oldest daughter went out of town. And youngest son is in Flordia playing his saxophone in the marching band. Oldest son is on his computer. And youngest daughter is going to go out tonight. Yes, XH is overhere in the living room with the youngest daughter. Just so sick of being here today. Just want to leave and leave for good. But just feeling really badly tonight. Part of the stuff that I have to deal with.

Just wanting to write and can't. HELP!

You like the man so much that you let him come over to spend all this time in your presence. Why don't you just let him move in or marry him again? He must be an all-right guy.

Faith4Me

I have two email addresses and neither is a big secret: cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com and faithfulwifecj@yahoo.com. Both are up and functioning and everything, so please just try again. (((((((((Faith4me)))))))))))))


CJ

Seems, like that the holidays are over with things are better. The holidays does create a great amount of stress. And just XH being around causes such triggers. Hate to say this, but I am so glad that christmas is over. Can focus on the new year, and school starting.

I have a job that I just happened to fall into. Worked yesterday and today. The woman is paying me cash. Cleaning out her house. TAlk about a packrat, and dirty. She hasn't cleaned many areas in years. A friend of hers gave her a dumpster rental for 2 weeks. And she is to fill it up so he can take it away. It took me 4 hours today to clean out her refrigerator. I have never seen a refrigerator so filthy. Had to soak hot soapy water and use a knife to scrape the crud off. It looks so clean now, and threw so much of the stuff away.

It is giving me money to pay for gas. I really am not buying much, cause I don't need much but pay bills and buy food. I really don't need clothes. Just a pair of boots for school, that are not cloggy and heavy. So I may look soon for some really good sales. Will need them for school.

XH did talk nicely today. Asked if he could come over to see the son, who just got back from the marching band trip to Florida. He played in the outback bowl. He said it was okay, but is glad to be home and sleep in his own bed tonight. I promised him that his bedding would all be washed and clean and ready for him. He is such a great kid, and that is the least I can do for him. So he was happy to see his bed smelling clean, and I even put an extra blanket on his bed for I have lowered the temperature more, to cut costs.

The filing is almost done. Feels good. Now that I can find everything. Just have to get one more letter written for my future. And then I can keep up with the mail that comes in. Hate to get behind, but schooling really takes a lot of time.

Then Monday I see the Dr. for a referral to an orthopedic surgeon. Hopefully the surgery can be over with quickly and soon. I want to heal and move on, and meet people. I love people and love to be HONEST to them, as I hope they will be to me. HONESTY is the major factor of a Gods path.

Also, I am going to try to get some exercise in. Just can't seem to exercise with this shoulder. Sleeping has been difficult for the last 3 nights. The throbbing, and can't seem to sleep on that side anymore. More symptoms that I do have a tear that needs to be fixed.

All my kids are in the house tonight. Feels comfy and safe. Thanked the Lord today for my sons safe trip home, and the rest of the kids. I heard on the news about a car on 75 going north and the bad accident. It had Michigan license plates on it, and my thought, was I hope that it was not one of the families of the marching band coming home. I hate to see anyone get hurt, but that was the first thing that came to my mind. But this family was coming home from a visit in the south, and was hit head on by another vehicle in the wrong lane. So sorry for the family.

I also have a meeting with my pastor and a few of the chairpersons of the church. Seeking to see about taking the position of being the head of the senior citizens daycare. I feel this would be a fulfilling job. Not sure how much pay it would be. But if I am happy, that is what counts. God will provide me a way of living. I know he will. He has helped me so much these last few years, during my husbands deceit, lies, and anger. Durig my hsubands abuse to me. And the fact that I used to trust my husband and then found that I couldn't trust him with any of his words. Cause he lied so much, and stole so much from this family. But God has helped me through this. Can't say, I trust him, just listen to him, and talk to God about it. God is the only one in my life who has not lied to me.

Thank you all.

Did you get the locks changed yet so the man who almost "ripped your arm out of it's socket" can stay away and out of your home? Or are you afraid you will be so weak you will give him the new key?

Honestly, when I think of you and your ex, sufdb, it makes me think of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown. He beats her up and verbally abuses her and she keeps sticking up for him and taking him back. I wish you would just finally get the guts to dump the idiot husband and sue him for what he legally owes you.

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Faith - have you ever read the scripture about "He that has hears to hear, let him hear, and he that hath eyes to see, let him see."

What are you waiting for?

Change the locks already or quit whining about the man.....and if he ever lays another hand on you, prosecute and get a restraining order.