GG,

There's a post on EN's about Communication Skills-
maybe you will find that useful--

TR: I'll check out the thread on EN. However, I do communicate very well. I communicate what I want and need and what I'd like my boundaries to be, and while I'm communicating all this verbally, I'm saying it so nicely, couching it in such sweet terms that it's obvious I won't insist upon it. That I'll continue to allow my boundaries to be violated in the interest of being NICE. And that he should just keep on walking all over me.

Nope. I have no problem with communication. I have a problem with back bone!

And I've agreed to have lunch with him because he caught me off guard and I couldn't think of a decent excuse not to have lunch.

And now, I'm so absorbed in what I should say or do, I have no focus for work. I HATE that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And now, I'm so absorbed in what I should say or do, I have no focus for work. I HATE that.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you go to lunch, enjoy it. Don't say anything. Let him talk and if he says something that you don'ty agree with let him know.

You know how to act. Be nice. Keep your end of the conversation brief and to the point. If the conversation leads somewhere you don't want to go, speak up.

Lets start working on that backbone along with the new job!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greengables:
<strong>And I've agreed to have lunch with him because he caught me off guard and I couldn't think of a decent excuse not to have lunch. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You do not need an excuse, decent or indecent. Just say "No, thank you".

And if he says "You just don't want to have lunch with me because you are [insert pejorative term here]"? You reply, "That's right".

TR: I read your thread. It was very good. A lot I’d heard before. And a lot of rules I have broken.

But surely at this point, you don’t recommend I open myself up to my STBX. That would be altogether too scary. Not to mention plain stupid and dangerous.

I’m willing to listen. And if he can demonstrate that it’s safe to negotiate with him, I’ll negotiate. I follow the rules, but he doesn’t. Nor does he negotiate in good faith. Therefore, by following the rules, I’m vanquished.

Someone ought to write a set of rules for when the other person negotiates dirty. Or problem solves dirty.

Elspeth: CAn you please beam yourself to PA in time to be at my elbow at lunch?

It did occur to me that my not wanting to go was a reason, but it wouldn't be a good reason to B. or to me.

And that's my problem. I need to start valuing myself and my happiness a little higher. Now no wonder STBX thinks I'll go willingly back into that cage of misery where he gets whatever he wants and I just have to put up with it.

Hey, meet him for lunch! But have a huge U-Haul truck filled with his books parked in the parking lot of the restaurant!

(The two workmen can wait in the truck and you and your husband can POJA together and decide where to tell them to put the books.)

If he objects to this, then you take the U-haul and sell all the books. You gave him a chance.

Baba, I love it. I can’t quite do that, but here’s what I can do. I’m going to tell him that he has until March 1 to remove the books from the basement. If he doesn’t, I’ll pack them up and have them removed.

Go for it! And be strong. If you have to have it in writing and get him and you to sign it in front of a notary, do that. Please stick to the date this time, my friend!

(remember he broke several other deadlines)

If you put it in writing and have him sign it, and you sign it as if you are your old, doormat self, then when he misses this deadline, he will expect you to extend the deadline like you always do but you can MOVE ON THAT DATE MARCH 2ND AND GET THE BOOKS OUTTA THERE TO SELL OR WHATEVER.

Act really mousy and he will sign and not expect you to stand up to him. Having him sign something can help you later....

" I will remove all my books by March 1, 2004 or I give up all claims to them and give ____________permission to remove them."


Signatures_____________________Date________

Notary__________________________


(You can find a notary at any bank and may have to pay them $5.00 to stamp this.)

If you sweet talk him into signing this note, fine,. If he will not sign, then have the second note ready to hand to him.

" I asked you to get the books out of the basement of _____________(address) on such and such a date. They are still there.

I am giving you until March 1st, 2004 at midnight to have all the books removed from the premises and any accompanying sheds on the property. On March 2nd, if any books remain, I will be disposing of them myself as I see fit.

___________________Your signature and date"

Baba, I love the Uhaul in the parking lot idea.

And the signatures required.

However, what GG keeps ignoring about these D**n books is that they are marital property. They are inventory and have value. She should keep them as a bargaining chip in the PSA. She's willing to walk away from their value to "play nice". However, he's already commenting on her spending habits with the girls and how he can't (won't) support her. I think deep down she knows she won't get support from him for the girls long term.

GG, Have him sign the paper, and on March 1, have a competitor of his come to value the books. That should get things moving along.

WIWH, Sorry I missed your post. Good points.

So here's what happened.

Lunch with Billy boy was.

First off he told me I had dial up internet service!!!! And he was proud. Poor misguided man. I set him straight. Then, he wanted to accuse me of dishonesty. And he threatened to tell the children I was "seeing someone else." Huh? Drinks counts as "seeing" someone else?

I got really nasty then. I told him that if he wanted to be honest with the girls about that fine, but I'd be honest too and tell them how I got herpes. I think I scared the **** out of him. He thought I was going to go all contrite. Ha. I won't be blackmailed.

Then, after my character defamation was complete, I asked him when the books would be out of hte house. I know, I know, not the plan. But he said 6 weeks. Fine.

Then, he talked about counseling. I asked what he wanted to accomplish with counseling.
He said "help us get along better." I asked what he meant. He said, "Well, for starters, when I say 'You treat me like ****, I expect you to say you're sorry rather than drag up how I hung up on you 8 months ago.'"

He also wanted to talk about the incidents of the last two years. In particular, my almost EA. But also my comment about how he ruined my vacation plans. He also admitted we may need to talk about somethings he did.

But, basically, he wanted counseling to prove to me that I needed to change.

I told him that I didn't see what was in it for me. (Penny's words more or less) And when he said he was still in love with me, I told him I didn't believe him and that I thought the only reason he wanted to be married to me was so that he wouldn't have to move the books. And I said it nicely.

And then, he launched into "my attitude." And how I needed to be willing to work. My reply was that I was working by even being there. That I was working hard when I told him the books had to be out in six weeks, and that I would be working even harded when I had a moving company move them out in six weeks.

I told him that I was working hard at insisting I get what I needed and that was the only way we'd have any sort of relationship in the future. Oh, and I told him that I no longer looked about hurting someone else's feelings as being worse than hurting my own feelings. And that I was going to value my own happiness. That I WANTED to be happy.

And when he asked about the next six weeks and suggested counseling, I said that I knew he had very little time. (Oh, he had time for counseling, but he didn't have time to move the books.) Then, I told him to get the books moved and we'd talk about counseling after that.
Lunch with Billy boy was.

First off he told me I had dial up internet service!!!! And he was proud. Poor misguided man. I set him straight. Then, he wanted to accuse me of dishonesty. And he threatened to tell the children I was "seeing someone else." Huh? Drinks counts as "seeing" someone else?

I got really nasty then. I told him that if he wanted to be honest with the girls about that fine, but I'd be honest too and tell them how I got herpes. I think I scared the **** out of him. He thought I was going to go all contrite. Ha. I won't be blackmailed.

Then, after my character defamation was complete, I asked him when the books would be out of hte house. I know, I know, not the plan. But he said 6 weeks. Fine.

Then, he talked about counseling. I asked what he wanted to accomplish with counseling.
He said "help us get along better." I asked what he meant. He said, "Well, for starters, when I say 'You treat me like ****, I expect you to say you're sorry rather than drag up how I hung up on you 8 months ago.'"

He also wanted to talk about the incidents of the last two years. In particular, my almost EA. But also my comment about how he ruined my vacation plans. He also admitted we may need to talk about somethings he did.

But, basically, he wanted counseling to prove to me that I needed to change.

I told him that I didn't see what was in it for me. (Penny's words more or less) And when he said he was still in love with me, I told him I didn't believe him and that I thought the only reason he wanted to be married to me was so that he wouldn't have to move the books. And I said it nicely.

And then, he launched into "my attitude." And how I needed to be willing to work. My reply was that I was working by even being there. That I was working hard when I told him the books had to be out in six weeks, and that I would be working even harded when I had a moving company move them out in six weeks.

I told him that I was working hard at insisting I get what I needed and that was the only way we'd have any sort of relationship in the future. Oh, and I told him that I no longer looked about hurting someone else's feelings as being worse than hurting my own feelings. And that I was going to value my own happiness. That I WANTED to be happy.

And when he asked about the next six weeks and suggested counseling, I said that I knew he had very little time. (Oh, he had time for counseling, but he didn't have time to move the books.) Then, I told him to get the books moved and we'd talk about counseling after that.

So, I could have done better, but all in all I'm proud of me.

Well, did you get Baba's note signed?
If not, I expect more of the same. 6 weeks from now, we'll still be hearing about the books.

Perhaps we can have your MB friends come over for your birthday and we can all move the books together. You'd be amazed at how much stuff my minivan holds.

Seriously, it sounds like you took a stand, which he wasn't expecting. I love the line that he has no time to move the books, but does (now) for counseling. Again, even though he says he wants it, I don't expect him to actually make the plans.

If, after April 1, the books are still there, I think you MUST have them appraised. Don't give it all away. You might kick yourself later.

I'll have them appraised on the 26th of March if they're still in the house. And then, I'll have them packed up and shipped out.

Meanwhile, the tractors are going bye-bye.

Anyone who wants a nice mower to work on, and can come to south easter PA to pick it up, it's yours. One's a John Deere. The other is some make I don't recognize but has a bag for the clippings.

Newly, how was LV?

I think you handled it quite well. I would love to have seen the expression on his face.

I'd go ahead and have those books appraised right now and not wait for the six weeks to be up. That way, when he doesn't move them in six weeks, you'll have more sense of wha your options are. Also talk to your attorney (if you haven't already) about what you have a legal right to do with them.

GG

Compare your first post on this thread to your lunch. You did a great job standing up for yourself.

Don't back off of that deadline. He set it, you hold him to it.

I agree that you should check on your legal options regarding the books and tractors before getting rid of them. And deffinately have the books appraised asap. I would also get bids on them from compettitors.

Also I think I can fit almost as many books in my station wagon as Newly can in her mini van. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Okay, I have no idea what to do with this. It’s horrible.

This morning my STBX called to tell me that when he said he felt like telling the children that I was seeing other people, he wasn’t threatening me. Drinks with a male acquaintance which I’m honest about and it bites me in the rear.

Anyway, his story was that he was feeling sad and lonely and wanted to confide in his friends. His friends being our two daughters aged 4 and 7.

I said that the girls weren’t his friends, they were his children. He totally disagreed with me.

I also pointed out that confiding in them was inappropriate. STBX responded by saying that he feels not telling them things was dishonest. And he just wanted them to know what I was doing.

He also feels that not filling them in on the details is dishonest.

I asked if he’d want me to introduce the girls to all men I may date when we’re divorced. He said he supposed so. Now, I totally and absolutely disagree. My game plan is to not introduce the girls to anyone no matter what for another 18 months at least. (We’ve been separated since mid-April.) And seriously, I’m not sure when I’d be ready to date. Let alone when I’d even get serious with someone. And I won’t introduce a man unless I know he’ll be around for a long while.

Now, the whole “seeing other people” is a huge exaggeration. However, the damage is done. I might as well be sleeping around.

But, why should I even want to work on a relationship with a man who 1) sees his children as friends, 2) feels burdening them with adult information is appropriate and 3) is so out of touch with himself that he can’t see that his motivation for telling them is in part to hurt me.

Oh, man, what a scary thought! What if his motivation was just as he said. What if these were the only two he felt comfortable confiding in? Yuck.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

WIWH,
I’ll be calling on both you and Newly. And Baba too, to help load up the stuff. Tra La.

How goes it?

GG How does he know about you going out? What do your kids think you were doing at the time.

I don't usually agree with the type of person that always wants to get there side of the story in first to keep from getting in trouble, but in your case maybe you should. At least let the kids know that you have male friends and do run into them on occasion.

Imagine the look on his face when he confides in them and the say "I know"

as for how goes it for me>>>
Opened my own checking account yesterday. Changing direct deposit soon.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I’ll be calling on both you and Newly. And Baba too </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel I'll be a little out numbered.

Are your children likely to ask you about what he tells them? If so, all you have to do is set the record straight. "Seeing someone? Well, I have a friend named Joe, and we get together for drinks sometimes, but we aren't boyfriend and girlfriend. Even after the divorce is final, I'm going to take some time before getting a new boyfriend" (or whatever your thinking is on that).

If they aren't likely to ask you, you may just have to open up and tell them your plans and doings in a matter of fact way, so it won't come as a surprise to them to hear that you have a friend or two that you get together with.

I think your STBX is likely to be in for a nasty shock if he tries to badmouth you to your kids, because kids don't like to be on the receiving end of criticism of a parent, especially coming from the other parent. As long as you maintain a good relationship with them, they are more likely to come to the conclusion that Dad is being a pain than that you are doing anything wrong.