While we were in counseling, towards the end ot it, we both concluded that with my new job, she would move to be with me. Later after her class ended, she changed her mind. She wanted to stay, b/c she had made contacts all ready established. After the bomb was dropped, she mentioned all types of stuff that was wrong with me. That I wasn't outgoing. How do you make a rationalization like that, unless you have something to compare me to. Which is why I think she has been comparing me to her friends. They talk about all the things they have done & the things they like to do. She developed an interest in karoke, going to bars, water skiing, hunting, wanting to trade her car in for a pick-up truck, stuff I really never heard of before (except the karoke). Which we went to a place that had it. But it was a place that was suggested to her by one of her friends. I felt uncomfortable about that. It seemed she was taking up other peoples interests just to fit in the group. I felt as though she showed little interest in me. I wanted to do things with her, but not what these friends suggested to do.

How old was your wife when you guys got together? It seems to me that she doesen't have a grasp on her own identity or who she really is as a person, and so she is trying to discover that (in a rather immature way). She is like a sponge, absorbing her friends' personailty traits and interests. My WH is the same way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Also, your wife threw herself into what is called a married-single lifestyle, which is always destructive to a marriage.

She was 22-1/2 when we got married. She has mentioned that maybe the fact she left her parents house to directly dating me, that maybe she feels she has been missing things. She is now 27. We have been together for a total of 6-1/2 years. 4-1/2 married. I think you are right. At first we were tied at the hip together. For the past 2 years it seems though she has drifted. A new job & the inclusion of her new friends, I think have contributed to her "married-indepent" lifestyle. Couples that are independent in a relationship really don't work. I think I've contributed to the problem by insisting on separate bank accounts. She mentioned long ago that most married people share a bank account. My job at the time didn'y allow me to direct deposit my paycheck, so she paid all the bills from her checking. Long story, sorry fro the details. But that seemed not to be a big deal to her for the past year or so. I always gave her cash for my half of the bills. She has her own bills to pay for (car, clothes, credit cards, etc) & I have mine. Well anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head. Our counselor mentioned one time that one person in the relationship can't be independent, that we have to be interdependent. She was showing signs of independence last year. Our situations sound very similar.

To J & FHL,
FHL mentioned someone to go to movies.
I found a local Separate & Divorced Support Group which was a godsend early in my healing. Definitely not a dating group, just people who were or had gone through the same thing. Try to find one in your area.
I know I could e-mail or call people from this group for a movie, dinner or just to talk. It helps.
Your church or local Behavioral health clinic may have a list of these.
Keep Healing.

Yes, I believe separate bank accounts are detrimental to a feeling of oneness in a marriage and interdependence. It's too easy for it to become my money/your money and not our money. And finances are one of the biggest things in a marriage.
I am sure that she feels she has missed out on being young, single, free, independent since she was rather young when you guys started dating. My WH used to make comments all the time like, "I can't believe I am 21 years old and driving a minivan..." I just brushed it off as him being immature and selfish. But now I see that having a wife and new carreer in the military at 19, a baby by 20, a minivan by 21, a second child by 23 and owning a home is A LOT very early. My attitude towards him was "suck it up", be an adult. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I think I was like that because it caused me to feel very helpless and sad, like he was unhappy with our life and our family (which he was, basically). But I shouldn't have taken it so personally.
The frustrating thing is taht he kept telling me to stop "doing nice things for him", in other words, stop meeting his ENs. His only request was for me to basically leave him alone and let him do whatever he wanted - the one thing I couldn't do.The reality is that we are married, and we do have two children. There's no going back, it's time to step up to the plate. I try to tell him that there will be plenty of time for us to have our freedom when the kids are grown - we will still be very young. And I have tried to be as fun as possible, leaving the kids with my parents for whole weekends on a regular basis so we could go have fun, or just stay at home and have sex as much as we wanted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Unfortunately, by that point he was so obsessed with OW, and had his mind so set that he could never be in love with me again, that none of it mattered. I was doing everything he's always wanted, we had everything he'd wanted for so long - we wre back in FL by our family and friends, back at our old church, built a house, etc, and he was too miserable to enjoy any of it. I just can't understand why he is throwing it all away, and for what? It's not even like he has OW to go to.
OK, how did I once again start going on and on about me?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
There is just something about talking to someone who is in the same position...I have lots of friends I can talk to but no one who's really been there.
It's sad, isn't it how we often don't see the signs for what they are until it's too late?
(Not that it's hopeless, but you know what I mean.)

I know the whole separate bank accounts was an issue years ago. I mentioned to her during counseling last year, to pool our money together in one account. She didn't want to do that right then. She wanted to wait till she moved over to be with me to do that. At that time she made more money than me & didn't have a bank account. Now I make more than she does. I moved to a new town to be close to my new job. I could't afford to pay the rent for 'our' new place & for the house we lived in together. Now she has moved out & lives with her parents. I wish she would tell me that these are issues with her, but she never has. She knows we aren't financially stable to do that. But I have known people who share everything including money & they fight it out to the bitter end regardless.

That's true, sharing money hasn't stopped our marriage from falling apart!
What issues do you wish she would have told you about? Not sure I get what you mean.

She hasn't told me ANY issues that have bothered her. She feels too uncomfortable to talk about them now. She did mention the fact that I passed out on new years eve & 'left' her by the bonfire by herself when 12 rolled around. The counselor raised an eye brow when I mentioned that to him. I've already seen him 3 times already, she once (yesterday). He said if it happened frequently, then that would be a problem. Its only happened once. She said new years eve is a special night. Well so is valentines day. She decided to go to a party (without me...to her we are separated) to a guy classmate's sisters birthday some 50 miles away. She got so drunk & passed out that she didn't wake up till the next afternoon. People have told me that its a double standard, & you don't leave someone for passing out at a new years eve party. She seems to keep all these issues in her head. Its kinda like a box she has in her mind, when I do something 'wrong' in her eyes, she might complain about then, but she also stores it away in that box. You can't win in a situation like that.

How about going to counseling together? Or asking her to write you a letter stating all of her issues with you? Sometimes it's easier to write it than say it.

We are to same counselor we did use before. She also going to see a pschy for depression. She said she feels better being alone then being around me or her family. She thinks thats weird. It is. I think it comes from me living away from her during the work week for the past 2 months (nov & dec). Up until early Dec, she was taking a 3 hour night course 5 nights a week. I guess that provided her with companionship. When the class ended, I guess so did that feeling she got from being in the class did too.

She has told me some issues, but they seemed so odd. One was that when we would go rent movies, I would give her the money (she has the membership card) to pay for them & then I would leave her side to go look else where in the rental store. She felt that I did that b/c I was ashamed of her. I had no idea that was an issue. I certainly wasn't ashamed of her, I don't know where that comes from. I mean, while she waits in line, I went browsing thru the store. When she was finished, we would leave. I thought that was no big deal.

That's very interesting - the movie thing. I could see her feeling a lack of togetherness, but ashamed? Do you have any idea at all why she would come to that conclusion of all thje conclusions she could possibly come to? Does she have self-image issues, weight struggles, etc? Has she ever expressed anything about you not finding her attractive, or feeling not good enough for you before? That just seems like a really odd thing to think. Apparantly, just scratching the surface, there's obviously some deeper issues here.

She never told me it was an issue before, as far as I can remember. It wasn't like, "please don't go off, it makes me feel lonely, please don't do that, I mean it". She never said anything like that. I've told her though, that when she goes went out with her classmates to go dining or bowling, to please phone ahead to either invite me or just tell me that you are going somewhere. She never did that, she would just go & come home late. I was told to just deal with it basically. That she has never had friends like that before, & its time she enjoyed herself.

Yes, she has had weight issues. She has them right now. She feels terrible about herself as of now. She feels that this situation has made her gain weight & feel, acording to her terms, like a blob. I've always tried to cheer her up, but it couldn't keep her from thinking those thoughts. She keeps worrying about them.
But the whole new years eve incident, according to her, is one of the main reasons for the situation we are now in. Odd.

Of course it's not, that's crazy - we all know that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Apparantly she has some abandonment/self-worth issues. What about her childhood? Could it be from something that happened or her relationship with her parents? Hopefully in counseling they can get to the bottom of it.
Complements may be helpful...
Also, have you ever thought she is just using these petty complaints as a way to avoid the deeper issues, or because she really doesen't know why (or doesen't want to know why)?

Well I think her father is a controlling type. But she holds a high regard for him. She is in the same profession as he was (law enforcement). Today she went to see the same psych I see. According to her, she was diagnosed with mild anxiety disorder with depressive moods. I hope taking antidepressants helps her. I want the old person I knew to come back. That is without the pettiness, hiding feelings, & deception. I mean she acting as if everything was ok up until she dropped the bomb on me. We were intimate that day, 2 hours later, the bomb in dropped. Of course she knew what she was going to do. I never thought she would think that being intimate one last time & then telling me those feelings she had wouldn't be traumatic for me. I feel so deceived. I think I am the stereotypical 'woman' in the relationship, while she is the 'man'. I want to talk about my feelings & our relationship, while she doesn't really express anything.

Who knows WHAT they are thinking. My WH was intimate with me many times after he had already made up his mind he was leaving. (He had given God 6 months to change his heart, and the deadline was Dec 23 - I didn't know any of that.) And we were intimate the 25th and several times after that until he moved out around 1-6.
Talk about feeling violated!
It's strange to me that she would think it would make things easier, seems to me it would make it harder! She's just so confused in her fog.
Sorry this hurts so much.

Thanks. I don't know what to do. I encourage her to write it all down. I've been reading both divorce busting & divorce remedy books. I've even ordered the video seminar that the author of those books made. I want to try everything I can. At least no one can say that I didn't try. I'm worried that maybe sometime in th future that this can happen all over again. "You remember last year, when you said this & that, well I can't let go of that & so....."
One issue with her in the past, was the amount of children we were to have. She said she wants 3-4. My inclination, is that we haven't had one yet, so maybe we should see how it goes & then proceed from there. Her issue is that I said we were having one & thats it. She wants 3-4 & therefore we have a problem. Odd. No compromise. I've talked & talked about that issue with her & brought up the fact that an only child isn't the best (We both grew up only children). She still throws it up that I said only one child, way back then. I guess I can't change my mind. I mean if a women won't talk about whats bothering her inside, she hides it from her spouse (secretive), she wants to do her own thing when she wants to (selfish), than how can she be a good mother to 3-4 children. Its repeatable behavior. She will always do this unless there is some form of therapy. You H will do the same, later in life. They both need to 'see' what they are doing.

Well, if she decides she wants to reconcile, part of that is having a plan, which should include marital counseling, and an agreement on how to restore the marriage. Hopefully, she would read and watch the videos too and learn how to change those things.
I know what you're saying though. I have asked myself, "do you want to be married to someone who obviously doesen't understand committment to his marriage vows, and who is willing to break them? How do you know he won't do it again when things get tough?" Part of our reconciliation (if it happens) will be that he will have to reasonably convince me through his actions that he has seen the error of his ways and is commited for LIFE.
It's scary, but it's our only option of we truly want our spouses back. Part of it is faith, I guess.
Well, I'm about to leave and may not post for a day or two, but keep us updated.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WHo knows whats going on in her head. I just can't believe it went from one week of calling each other everyday & emailing little notes to each other to the next week of the cold shoulder. She seems so cruel to me. Now when she calls or I call her, she is inpersonal. Its like I'm a friend she has to talk to, but doesn't really want to. I almost hate her. Its all about me, me, me, me. Look at how I feel. During our last joint seesion with our counselor, she pulls out these print outs about abuse. Saying I am an emotional abusive person, b/c I made her feel guiltly 3 months ago. The particular incident she is talking about resolves around the dressing up & undergraments she choose to wear to her night class (see 1st post). That was 3 months ago. I have been leaving in another town during the week for that amount of time. After presenting the print outs, I got upset at being accused of being abusive, I wept uncontrollably. She told me she knew what she had to do. She told me not to stay with her, that we are now separated. The weekend prior to this, we went horseback riding, bowling, shopping, I gave her a massage, etc. Two days later, she bombs me with these print outs at our conselors office. Well, I didn't contact her for a week. I couldn't work either. She did though. She even went out to eat with friends & went to a social gathering with her work peers. One week later, I still haven't contacted her. She finally did & said that she is hurt deeply that I didn't contact her about how I was doing. She said that she's a 'wounded creature & you put salt in my wounds' by not telling her how I was. That I was punishing her for what she presented to me. I am tired of this. That is control in itself. It is making me feel guilty for the fact she tells me I'm abusive & I didn't tell her how I was after the fact. ODD person.

I am sort of wondering why no one picked up on the law enforcement end of things. Is your wife a police officer? Are these new friends/classmates police officers?

I am the wife of a police officer, the daughter of a police officer and a sister of a police officer. I have been around cops my entire life and see the many dysfunctions this line of work creates and/or enables (the odd shifts, weekends and holidays away from home). The infidelity problem is well known in this line of work. The "badge bunnies" and "cop whores" are everywhere.

I also used to work in our local court in the same town as my husband/father/brother's work. I've seen it all. I've heard it all. I am disgusted by some of the things I've seen or heard my husband's coworkers do. My husband had a short lived affair with a female coworker (also a police officer) who is now pregnant and we are all wondering if this baby is my husband's, her fiance's or another married police officer's. My husband's affair with this whore ended so close to her becoming pregnant that people are taking bets as to whether the baby will be born half african american (her fiance's - she's caucasian), half puerto rican (the other married man's) or just plain old white like my husband. Apparently, there are monetary pools going on at their department and another local department. I am totally humiliated over it all.

There is alot of police psychology out there about there risky profession and their risky behavior. It has a lot to do with the stresses and the "bond" that they supposedly share with their coworkers.

Enough with my police "insight" until I know if this is what you are looking for!!!