KitG- Thanks for the support. Your X sounds very much like mine. I would like to compare things more when I have more time. Mine has been sober multiple times since I have known him always going back to his old ways when life isn't miraculously fixed and he doesn't get his way because of it. He is showing all the same characteristics now as with every other sober period and I am willing to bet it won't last. Right now he is attending the kids' stuff and being more involved, but she directs all ot it. Furthermore, he only got involved after he intially petioned for a change in custody. Shouldn't these be things he should always have been doing? He is so trapped right now. He is on a nodrink probation, can't drive, and can't keep up with many of his parental obligations without her. What happens when he gets his freedom back. I am guessing the same thing that always happens. Then what? He is such a manipulator and controller. His perception of the world is so unrealistic yet he believes it 100%. He gets verbally abusive whenever I or anyone contradicts his reality.

STP - I do find you defensive. I am not your WW. You seem to be very involved in your childrens' lives and she doesn't like that. My circumstances however are different. My XH is involved at his convenience. Like I have already stated, at 20% he is more involved than he ever was when we were married, yet the 20% is me giving him credit for the occasional extra days he sometimes requests. He doesn't want to be with the kids as a full time parent, he wants to be with them when he wants. Right now the extra times he requests are for always for special occasions. He has never called and asked if he could have them over just to be with them and he certainly has ample time to do this. I have bent over backwards to give him any extra time he requests, but there isn't that much that he has requested. He wants all or nothing. He has even said so. Even though I am taking considerably less child support than I have to he keeps complaining about the money telling me I am robbing him blind. There have been multiple times when I have accomodated him only to have him call at the last minute and cancel plans leaving me up in the air and the kids let down. Of course it is never his fault, he is full of excuses. When I meet his requests he simply ups the anty or changes his mind. Nothing is ever enough and I end up with heartbroken kids.

He works shift work and the 50/50 custody proposal he offered me has the kids spending more time with the OW than him and his defense is that he can't help it due to his job and that they should be with her because she will be their stepmother. What't with that?

He admits he put the kids through hell and that I am what has kept them going and stable. He says he has no complaints about my parenting. He knows the kids are comfortable and knows that I will let them see him whenever they ask. I have offered to let him spend more time with the kids and over time prove himself, but he isn't interested. It takes 5 minutes to travel from my house to his so time isn't an issue. It is about the money plain and simple.

Newly- You are so right about not being to proceed in a normal fashion with all types of people. My husband is terribly controlling because his life is out of control. There is no middle ground with him. It is his way or no way. Compromise is not an option. He plays the continual victim, manipulates, throws tantrums, bullies, makes threats, etc. to get his way. He talks about all the parenting he will do when he gets 50/50. In the meantime I do it.

Take care and God Bless!
K

STP - You posted again while I was posting and I really do sympathize with you, but the more you right the more I see numerous differences between our stories.

Are you documenting everything? If not, please start. I know of two fathers who had XW's like yours and they won their fights because they had proof on their sides.

If my XH was the type of father you seem to be we wouldn't have the issues we do.

Take care and God bless!
K

Still,

Please don't take offense. Just doing some research.

Good Luck

STP - I am not that easily offended, at least not in the long run. I firmly believe that each case is different and should be judged on its individual circumstances and merit. If my XH was a loving involved father I wouldn't have a problem with 50/50, but the reality of the situation is so much different and I get upset when my XH uses pushes the equality issue with me because we are not equal and never have been. I make good enough money that if I really felt it was in their best interest I would gladly give the time to him. I am sick of his sense of entitlement and how he uses the reputations of good fathers like yourself to further his cause.

Take care and God bless!
K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he wants to be with them when he wants </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a key statement. I remember a counselor saying that "our 6 year old self takes over".

My X would say things like "I want what I want."

What I took that to mean was that his demands were more important than the needs of his children.

Are you familiar with the "Right of First Refusal"? I had it written into my custody agreement. It says that if one parent isn't able to care for the children during their parenting time, the other parent must FIRST be asked. (time > 2 hours). so all that time that your X is asking for the kids when his new wife/GF would watch them, you could have them. So why change custody.

Regarding comments on this thread about people's thoughts. It is our responsibility to be the best parent's we can be, and to minimize the impact of the D on our children. They didn't ask for this, we did. And we need to help them grow into emotionally healthy individuals - while we continue our emotional growth. And yes, I really believe these statements.

There is know one single good answer for everything. I just don't understand things sometimes. Hey I am only human and fall into the game sometimes. I close my mind and don't listen to reason.

I just don't understand the resentment, the anger and the need to use my children agaist me. Hey, I didn't even want the divorce. She got what she wanted, divorced, new man, new life.

Newly-

You comments are right on the mark. I know we all let our taker side take over at times, but it is the only side my XH seems to know. He doesn't think about what is best for the kids, he thinks about what is best for he and the OW. With the amount of time they currently put in even if I could trust him I don't see how they would handle the adjustments. They are used to having a lot of free time. 50/50 would definately change that. They already have the kids skip some of their activities when they are with them because they conflict with what they want to do. I do have Right of first refusal written into our divorce, but the XH has violated it a few times this last year (all documented) now that the OW is here and living with him. Each time he has done it I have called him on it and he could care less. He claims that it was written in for his benefit as he has them less to guarantee that I wouldn't send them elsewhere. He feels that he shouldn't have to call me when the OW is readily available and wanting to watch them. Back to the whole she is going to be their stepmother idea. I am not so stupid as to not realize that this is what he intends to do should he get 50/50. The last time he did it I told him I had had enough and was going to file it in court if he did it again. So far he hasn't, but that was only two months ago. I do intend to use it in mediation though.

STP - I totally hear what you are saying. My XH had the affair, left me, and got the life he claims to have wanted, yet he can't let things be. It doesn't make sense to me either, but deep down I know that he like your WW is in the fog and trapped in a screwy sense of thinking where the world runs according to their wishes and wants and not reality and it really stinks. They are self destructive and destructive to everyone close to them. It is not easy, but the best we can do is stick to our beliefs and do our best to protect our children.

To everyone - When my XH left I tried everything to work things out. I even went into my own fog in which I was willing to overlook his many deep issues. I thank God every day that my XH was caught up enough in his own fog to never reconcile because I see clearly now and my life is so much better. My XH has so many issues that he is in denial of. I firmly believe that he loves our children, but that does not change the fact that he is not capable of providing them with the things they need to survive. I will not hinder the kids' relationship with him, but I will protect them. I work very hard to not get sucked into his games, to not let my kids see the stress he puts on me, to not let them know what he is doing. This isn't always the easiest since they are with me so much, but like newly said they didn't chose this their father and I did.

Take care and God bless!
K

K, I too am living your last paragraph. Eloquently stated.
I look at X as a 17 YO now who never grew up. It explains a great deal about his behavior.

newly- Good point. My XH has pretty much the same mentality. The OW is 11 years younger than he so he pretty much bought a new lease on life shall we say, the problem is the she too is growing up and in many ways already surpassing him in maturity.

The reality of the situation however is that although he bought a new lease on life and ended up in the same old situation only with a lot more baggage this time. Of course this too is all my fault as it always is, just like his work problems aren't with him, but with his employer, and so on and so on. This mentality alone is enough to make me worry about the kids. I don't buy into the whole victim mentality. I want my kids to grow up learning that they are capable individuals in control of their own destinies no matter what life presents them. I try to instill that in them and he defeats that.

When I combine that with the alcoholism things just get compounded.

KitG - In mediation how do you counter your X's claims that he is now sober. I have a ton of information, police records, treatment records, etc. that show my X has a definate pattern, but I know that he is going to claim that this time is different. How do I prove that there is too much at stake to risk taking a chance on it really being different?

Take care and God bless!

K

Alcoholism or ACOA issues are rampant on this board. That's why I understand so much of what you write, I lived it.
A DSG (divorce support group) friend told me the following:
An addict (alcohol or drugs) is only as emotionally mature as the day they started using.
If your X began drinking at 18, then he's an 18 YO. While the rest of the world continues to experience life events, the addict is stunted to that age. And tends to repeat the same mistakes over & over.

Regarding Custody. If the mediator looks like they plan to recommend more custody, ask for a formal custody evaluation. It costs money, but it will be worth your piece of mind. A written test by both parents, and interviews with the parents and children will help establish a baseline. I did this, and the judge went straight with the evaluator's recommendations, resulting in less custody for my X than he asked. And afterward, when X ignored all requirements for counseling and communication, the evaluator thought he gave him too much.
So now, when X tries to go back to court, I have the recommendation, and the evaluator's impressions of X's ability to co-parent. Very valuable.

I have heard that many times before that an abuser is stunted at the age where they began using. I have also read research that victims of abuse who are stunted at the age of development where the abuse was prevelant. Like you said dealing with things from that age while in an adult body. At any case my X starting drinking at 11 if that reinforces my point.

I am willing to do whatever it takes to win this. I appreciate the advice on the assessment.

Take care and God bless!
K

The courts and mediators see through blatant attempts to increase custody just to reduce CS.

OK, Off Topic.
I was just reading a newspaper and in the Police Report section were numerous arrests for nonpayment of childsuppport. One guy's total was $30,000, more around the $4000 mark and a few around the $400 - $600 mark. Excuse me. Why would the courts let someone get a way with not paying $30,000 on time, while arresting someone for not paying $400? I don't get it.

I pray every day and trust that God will guide me throught this and let the courts see through his act.

As for the child support thing it amazes me how this stuff goes on. In WI although they hold you accountable, you have to reach a high dollar amount, somewhere in the thousands before they start revoking things, pursuing you etc. I know that I can't trust my XH where the money is involved so it is automatically deducted. I also make enough to stay afloat, although barely on my own, but with the regulations the way they are I don't know how some families do it. I think of parents who make minimum wage and don't get their CS how do they make it? By the time they reach the mandatory dollar amount here to press charges and get action they are already sunk. It is so unfair!

Take care and God bless!
K

If anybody is reading this, does anybody have any statistics on people changing or realistic waiting periods to test if the change is true or rather just temporary to achieve something. Although I don't think that change is impossible I do think that most people don't truly change for the long run because true change is hard work and it is easier to fall back into what is known and comfortable. My XH has done very little work to change and shows no remorse unless he can use it to work someone.

I truly believe I am right in my custody fight and I also believe that my XH hasn't changed. I believe that time will prove me right, but I know he will argue against me. I am looking for as much information to support my case as possible.

Take care and God bless!

K

I just happened in here and was reading and just noticed one thing no one commented on to STP -- and I do not come here often so I really don't know everybody's stories but was bothered by one statement STP made:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I sat them down and explained that the arangement mommy wanted they might not ever see me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see this as very disrespectful toward your WW whether you like her or not, she is still your child's mother and I see this statement as an attempt to make their mommy look like a bad guy.

Again, not taking sides but be careful what you say to your kids. That one statement could have been left out.

Oh, and by the way, I just happened in here because I am afraid I am heading that way and wanted to start reading about how everyone else is handling this issue. I think everyone's situations need to be taken into account along w/the childrens' ages when talking custody. For instance, I don't think an infant would do well at all with 50/50 BUT see a pre-teen or teenager okay w/it.

I had a sister-in-law who D her H and he got primary custody because he was the stable one. She was not a problem but didn't make a lot of $ and couldn't afford a big place, etc. She got the kids every other weekend and one night a week.

For example on parenting, my H thinks he's a good parent when reality he isn't. I'm not saying that to be mean or spiteful, he just isn't. He doesn't supervise them. He lets them get into cabinets w/cleaners in them, leaves razors on the sink, falls asleep while they are in his care (he's a hard sleeper and didn't even awaken when the baby was screaming in her crib). I came home from grocery shopping and he had fallen asleep and the kids got into some sun block and the baby was eating it. H sees nothing wrong with this. So, yes, I would have a problem w/him having 50/50 custody of them at this time. If they were older, no.

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: SoDisappointed ]</small>

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

KitG-

I will definately need to talk to you next Friday before I go to mediation. You have such a calming effect on me. I guess that's what happens when you've been through this a few times. Your points are well taken. My kids are stable, well adjusted, the oldest gets staight A's, the next is an A/B student, and the other two are too young for grades, but have passed all screeings, etc. with flying colors, with the exception of the two year old they are all involved in multiple extra curriculars both academic and athletic, and are quite simply doing very well. I will reinforce the fact that I am open to him spending more time by getting more involved with their schooling and activities. I'm sure he will cringe!

The biggest thing that worries me is that he seems out to attack the fact that I am alone while he has the "Two parent" home. Even though state law states that custody is determined on the merits of the parents alone, I have heard of cases where this has been ignored. I have to admit, this worries me. I am currently doing the job 80% of the time that it takes both of them to do 20% of the time and I blow him right out of the water when compared to his abilities alone.

I am trying to keep the faith, but it isn't always easy. Thanks to the encouragement I am receiving on this board I am feeling much better.

Take care and God bless!
K

<small>[ March 05, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: KitG ]</small>

SoDisappointed-

I agree with many of your sentiments. I do believe that there are many things to be considered when determining custody; including the parents' ability to parent, the child or children's ages, and the child or children's wishes. My question for you is this. You say that you think 50/50 is too much for young children, but not for older. Do you mean at the age the custody arrangements are originally decided? My reason for asking is that my HX has been gone for three years now, my youngest wasn't even born yet and she has never known a traditional family existance. She also is a bit leery of her father as he really wanted nothing to do with her until she was 10 months old and then spent four months in jail, one when she was 14 months and the other three when she was 18 to 20 months. MY second youngest was 2 1/2 when her dad left and she too has really no recollection of a traditional family life either. My other two kids were a few years older (5 and 7) when their dad left, but still very young in the scheme of things. In many ways there are things he just can't change or make up for and so therefore even though they could probably handle it better, I don't see them wanting it. I guess I believe that their stability is the most important thing and changing custody messes with this. I was just wondering what your thoughts were. By the way my XH sounds a lot like yours, he has always been very irresponsible and some of the incidents you mentioned are all too familiar with me.

As for STP's comment that he made to his daughters, I see what you mean, because comments like that aren't fair to the kids. However, I also know how stressful this is and when someone is playing games with you, things do sometimes get said that shouldn't have.

KitG -

Do you know my husband? Just kidding, but it is amazing how similar our stories sound. I guess it's sad proof of the fact that this is all to prevelant.

You are so right about calmy stating the facts. I do plan to mention the fact that he can't drive and won't be able to for another year and a half. This does does get to him, but more importantly it does matter. He also works shift work and that makes him unavailable a lot of the time. I on the other hand teach (I know a lot of people here have things about teachers so I write this with some hesitation) and it gives me the same free time that my kids have. This also drives him nuts, but once again, it does matter. I do have a list of reasonable objections and I plan to present them calmly.

My XH is a controlling bully. For years I played right into his game by flying right back off the handle at him. As I went through our separation and divorce and learned how to detatch and back off it drove him nuts. He purposely sets me up and when I don't bite he goes nuts. It is so simply, yet the results are amazing.

I too have met his meaness with aggressiveness and he doesn't like this. He likes the upper hand and doesn't like not being able to control me. When we met in January to discuss our custody arrangement he accused me of being an arogant @#$%&! I really don't see it that way. He told me what he wanted. I told him my objections. He threatened to take me to court telling me that the courts will side with him because we are a 50/50 state and he is simply asking for what he's entitled to. I told him I stood by my objections and to go ahead. He was furious. He is so used to manipulating and bullying people that he can't handle it. I know it is wicked, but I have to admit that for me it is very empowering to see him lose it.

As for my BF he is so completely opposite of my XH. My XH continues to be one of the most irrational and impulsive people I have ever met. My boyfriend is one of the most rational and decisive people I have ever met. My XH was self centered and selfish. My BF is loving and giving. With my XH I always felt I was walking on egg shells and security was something I dreamed of. With my boyfriend I have felt comfortable and secure since the day we met.

My XH and I always had money issues during our marriage due in large part to his drinking and gambling problems. I bought him out of our house as part of our divorce. In the year it took for our divorce to happen he wracked up so many debts that his whole settlement was used to pay them off leaving him with about $1000 to start over with. Since then he has had two DUI's, their fines, and attorney bills to name a few. His fiancee works part time at a low income job. She not so ironically is also a teacher, but hasn't been able to find a job. They are up to their eyeballs in debt because they live the life of entitlement. My BF on the other hand while not rich definately does well for himself. He is hardworking, smart, and has invested well. As a result he has a lot of things that my XH only dreams of having. I can't tell you how many times my XH has accused me of being a gold digger saying stuff like, "Leave it to you to hook up with a rich one!" I have never once mentioned anything about him to my XH, but my kids love my BF and they are in awe of his "toys", I couldn't care less as he is a wonderful man and most of his toys are things only a child or man would get true enjoyment from, but anyway my kids have talked about it to their dad and let's just say his green eyes definately show. This too is comical as he is the one who left me. Living well is definately the best revenge!

Am I confident? Absolutely not. I like myself and know I am the better parent, but there is too much at stake here to be confident. Will he ever see this insecurity? Not on your life! Is he confident, most likely not, yet he walks around totally arogant and confident that he will win. It's such a game.

Well I better go for now. Talk to you soon!

Take care and God bless!
K

I forgot to mention something to you. When judge finally ruled on "temporary custody", knowing that X would be upset that it wasn't 50/50, and X claimed he couldn't possibly be away from the kids for 5 days in a row, judge put in a statement. The statement said, X has the right to visit the children every Monday afternoon after Mom's weekend from after school and must return them to childcare 1/2 hour before mom would pick them up.
In other words, she called him on his claim that he missed the kids, and gave him 2 extra hours. Has he ever done this? Never in 10 months.
Again, the judges arent' stupid.

So, if he continues to request more time, offer afternoon or dinner time which don't affect CS.