You wanted boundaries and now you keep posting about your x.

X with bimbo. X committing adultery. Well he did commit adultery but that's before he was divorced. He's free to shag whoever he wants now and SO ARE YOU. So it's not against your vows anymore. This is now between he and his maker.

I don't get it. You still talk about him finding faith, your wanting him to change. And what does it matter if your kids don't cry? I don't cry at a lot of movies and it doesn't make me a better person or less of a person or anything. Different people will just react differently.

You pass judgement on him again saying his feet will be burned as if by hot coals...actually the verse in the Bible says that it is "heaping hot coals into your lap" not your feet...so when you want to judge him, use the correct context. I still think you're taking the wrong approach here.

First of all, your judging him and posting those judgemental thoughts are a huge LB and will only make him, when he reads it, react more negatively against you. And you should be past LB'ing anyway as you're divorced. But I swear, I hear it in your words and want you to get real.

Your words convey to me and maybe to everybody that you aren't letting go at all. You're fixated on it and honestly, I think you want him back. Did you read anything I posted to you? He's free. You're free. Sure, he wronged you and your family when he slept around, but he can do that now and they do those things after divorcing. But funny thing happens when you divorce, you GET FREE TOO. He's going to sleep with other women. Maybe more than this old OW as well.

When will you get it that you can't change him. God works in his own time and it might not be anytime soon, if ever. If I were your xh and read your words, Id think you needed to get on with your life, feel further distant from you and not want to even talk to you with your tone being so judgemental.

It's wonderful you have your faith. But it is not one that's allowing you to let him go. I believe you're severely co dependent on him and you posted back to me that you're on antidepressants already. Which one? I told you which one has worked greatly on my patients. Have you gone to a real psych who can eval. your sitch now and help with the moving on and healing and get you on the right med?

Look. My old sitch is so much worse with regard to my x and his instant remarriage/birth/re-emergence of second OW but it's not who I am. I am not a part of that anymore. I just kinda stand back and shake my head now fully aware that nothing I do will matter and I am ok with this. My life is mine now and I've taken it back. I had to or else I was never really living at all.

You can't live your life in this destructive limbo any more. Is your pastor committed to helping you move on or is he praying actively for the "return of the prodigal" as I see so many doing? You're stuck. I suggest you get real with yourself and either 1)decide you want him back or 2)decide you want to move on. If you opt for 1, then RE LEARN MB TECHNIQUES b/c you're blowing it big time my dear. I am being totally honest here. I think you do want him back. And there's no shame if that is where you are led to be. But it's not for everybody and not for me and that's ok. But if you choose option 2, then REALLY LISTEN TO WHAT THE POSTERS HERE SAY B/C YOU'RE NOT DOING A DARN THING DIFFERENT.

I posted to somebody else this quote and I live by it now:
"The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over expecting the outcome to be different"...Einstein.

You are literally cycling on and on. You go from anger at something he does or does not do, let him enter your home at will or something stupid like that, then you proceed to judging him/ getting angry to writing something about God/wrath/salvation to next declaring your independence again...then something will happen and you will cycle all over again. It is very predictable.

Before you can help yourself, you need to be real with yourself. What is it you really want? If you want him back spouting religious judgements and angry outbursts here isn't going to accomplish anything and will make him react very negatively to you.

If you don't want him back, you need to take the advice and for me, get a psych and appropriate meds now. This has taken too long. Also, a person doesn't stay usually on same antidepressive med for this long without the care provider decidint it isn't working or changing their med...most take it for a few months to get them through their crisis mode.

But I also have an alternate theory here...the "reation" theory. I've always supposed that the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. Hence, my being able to go weeks literally without needing or having any desire whatsoever to contact my x....only do so when it's a specific purpose these days. I've also learned as a mother and as somebody w/minor in psych this little bit...

You have been wanting a reaction outta your x. Why else would you fight with him now, allow him to enter your home then complain b/c he's there using your computer or something...Why else would you post here and complain and judge him over and over? And from time to time he actually posts here and vents and responds to your words. It's like you're goading him to see if he is reading your thoughts here. It's as if he isn't responding at all to you and the only way you can get his attention is by lashing out at him or being passive/agressive (with the coming into your house) or judging and bashing him when you know he reads here and posts here...That is a given.

I am looking at your motive for doing this and it is obvious to me now. You want his attention and you are going to get it somehow. I see this as destructive faith. If you were moving on, you'd post about you, change the locks, or not let it bother you if he is in your home. You'd let it slide and do your own thing. If you were not wanting some kind of reaction (ALSO KNOWN AS REINFORCEMENT), YOU WOULD NOT DO ANY OF THIS.

His getting angry and lashing out by posting here is REINFORCING YOUR NEGATIVE BEHAVIOR. And it's a reinforcement nontheless and you're still continuing to do this.

Please don't get angry at me. I have been exactly where you were at one time. But I realized that it was not good for me to be stuck in a time warp and that life indeed goes on.

I don't think you can break this cycle alone. Your counselor should have already spotted this. They are supposed to teach better coping techniques and better behavioral alternatives so that we change our life outcomes. I don't see anything at all different with regard to you.

And faith cannot be a crutch right now. It's easy to hide and not deal with things. I used to pray fervently Psalm 25. Was like it was written for me. I'd pray day in day out (about 1/5 years ago) that God would change the heart of my x, that he'd quit with his lifestyle, that he'd see the judgement coming at him and change. And one day, I realized something. God is here for me, but I HAVE TO DO A FEW THINGS MYSELF AS WELL. He expects us to. Leave the supernatural and the things YOU CANNOT CHANGE up to HIM. Your x is one of them.

I believe in the end either way, if you decide your heart and soul says you want him back or if you decide that you want him out of your life PERMANENTLY, then some changes MUST TAKE PLACE FOR ANYTHING TO EFFECTIVELY WORK. And you must work on you. That means working through this cycling behavior, breaking the cycle of reinforcement of this behavior, and getting in control of your life.

No man or friend or child or relative wants to be around somebody who's always spouting the same stuff at them and who at the same time talks of love and faith and then in the next sentence slams a religious judgment upon them. I know this really well...my xIL's do that constantly. Plus it's time for healing now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So I should get the business phone out of the house? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Duh!
You own the house now right.
Get the telephone line disconnected.
Because you like to play nice, tell him (in writing) that unless he has his number forwarded to his new address by X date, you will have the line canceled.

I can't imagine it would be legal to have a telephone line into someone else's home is it?You're still enabling his poor behavior.

And get it in writing that he isn't allowed in the house. And write contracts for the kids to sign that if they don't agree, they must leave the house and find another place to live. If you enforce this, you'll have far fewer problems than you have now.

Peachy - I don't want this man back, cause who he is now, like your xh is not marriage material.

I want peace and want him out of my life. There is nothing that really attracts me to him.

I do at times get emotional, cause it was an emotional dance that he controlled for many many years. I had to swing to every move of his, for he would get angry and lash out with vindictive words. I want my life happy, with another man, if that is what God wants, and a man that loves me for me and not for what I can give.

It is coming, and I have had to find that my X is still on his woe is me syndrome. I went and did my taxes today, and the X didn't even send in the taxes. So it is being handled now, with intervention of calling the tax accountant we had as married, and my new tax accountant.

My accountant found a discrepancy in the tax form, and that is being addressed too.

I just wanted my taxes done on time, and now they won't, cause Mr. X has done his thing like everything else, procrastinate.

There are going to be boundaries when he is back in this state. He is not allowed at my house at all unless he has my okay. And he tells me that he is allowed to come and go in my house as he pleases. No way, and I have been telling him for about a year and he still doesn't abide. Well, he will have to abide now. I also, talked to a lawyer, and they are referring me to another lawyer. Will call them tomorrow. If not I will go back to the first one I talked to, and have to see what they have to say. It costs money, but the initial cost will give me the information that I need.

Controllers are the ones that think the world should run around them. Well, they have to know that there are boundaries to be abided to.

As for myself, it is hard, cause I seem to have to fight for existence all the time. X has screwed up my credit report with his not paying the hospital bills from the injury that he did to me. The fraud phone he had put in. The health insurance is so ridiculous. So things like this are going to be settled.

Everyone here on MB and my counselor told me that I have to start setting the boundaries and taking care of my self. For he is out to screw me, and continue screwing me cause I let him. So that is it, he wants to shoot me with his coercing and manipulation. I am fighting for my existence, and for what is right. I am tired of his lies, and his deceit.

It takes awhile to get me really mad, but I have gotten there, and I am not going to have him monitor me and tell me what I can and cannot do. He is a free man, and I am a free woman, and I am going to fight for my credit report being 100% okay. He has screwed up my oldest daughter credit report, my 2nd daughters credit report. He no longer is going to do this, and the lawyer will be told this too. As for the Dr. appointment, the Dr. will be told what has happened in the last 3 years with his affair, and his ballistic attitude and calling all of us f*cking something and screaming and yelling at all of us. So this is going to be corrected.

I no longer want a controlling man in my life. I do care about him, only that he was part of my life for 25 years. But no longer am I going to have a heart for him.

He has made it clear that his other woman is the love of his life. So be it. I hope that they have a good time, and enjoy each other in scientific study or biology.

I never knew that this man could be so vindictive and mean. I never knew that he would demean me. And do things diliberately to hurt me. But that is a wayward spouse, once they do it, they always do it. Like you said, once they lie they always lie.

Just hurts that I allowed myself to fall in love with this man. And gave him my body and soul.

I will move on and find someone that is kind, considerate and loving. If God wants me too. For now I enjoy my children, who I love very much. They are the ones that I would give my right arm or leg to. They deserve better than this, and it is sad for my kids.

Peachy, I don't get upset with your writings. I feel you are being radically honest, and I am being radically honest with you. I do care about my X, but I don't love him persay like a husband. He has gone too far in the rotten sttate of the devil. But I do pray for him, and wish him happiness in his continued love and sex with the other Ms. Debi. He is committing adultery according to Gods eyes and mine. But that is his and her life.

I can still pray for those that I care about. And I will. Doesn't mean that I want him back. I don't, cause he is not a considerate man now. He is selfish and controlling as he always has been.

My daughter is so upset that she is sitting at the phones all day. She can't do anything, and I told her, that is what your dad wants. I said I did this since 1990 fulltime and never got paid. And he didn't consider my feelings, that I was stuck listening to the phones and couldn't interact outside the home. And if I did, I couldn't continue. LIke joing the weight loss program. AFter missing 3 classes, I finally quit, and said this won't work. And I tried going to art class, and had to miss classes, and finally quit. The same for going to school and taking night classes at the high school for college credit. I had to quit. Same old, same old.

Just now I am unable to afford much, with the money situation and the pain I suffer with my back and neck.

Will possibly have to go further into that with the lawyer. We will see. I have had it, I am done so done, that I could just cry. This man continues on his path of beating me with his calling wolf of he is not good at paperwork. It is about time he did something about it. So I am doing something about it on my side and he will just have to appear and pay up what he should have been doing.

It is sad, when you get these feelings of mistrust towards the one that you loved at one time. But that is what happens in a divorce.

Peachy, you get on the down trend too. I feel your pain and your loss of love. Your husband has screwed up pretty big too. Just like my X has. They both will have to repent in Heaven when they see the Lord.

Have to go for now. Been on the phone with lawyers today, accountants, and trying to get some of my life back in order. My X has really screwed up my life with finances, and lies. Just like yours. But I want it all resolved, and finally settled. I want my credit clear and totally disconnected from him and he goes live in Arizona and I can live here for the time being and get my life in order.

Same with you, you want your life back. But they keep interfering and prodding us, like cattle. We have to learn to not let them do this to us, and we need to learn to not let them get to our buttons. I am closing the gap on the opening, just been taking awhile, and after today, I could just (throw manure at him). He is so vindictive and mean.

Bye for now.

Faith,

When you go to the doctor at the end of the month about your shoulder, what purpose will it serve to tell him about your ex's affair??It's just another place where you can possibly get some pity. And the doctor won't care that he called you a F###ing B@@@@.

And if he's ruining your daughter's credit, then it is her responsibility to take care of it. NOT YOURS!!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, I guess that my oldest daughter is reading my posts all the time. She was rude to me once again, and that is part of the following her dads actions. She criticizes me, but once again, will she criticize her father, NOPE. He gives her everything.

So I will be typing very little, just a few statements. To notify you that things are getting better or what is happening to a bit. Oldest daughter even stated that I am dating. Heck, I am not dating, and I will place my hand on the bible. I have been talking to a guy, in fact a few guys, and that is it. I have done some things with these men at different times, but mostly with my church group. Yes, they are nice guys, but I am really not interested at this point. I am not interested in dating. But then I said to her, your father is dating Ms. Debi in ARizona, and she gets all defensive. She models herself after her father, and I just have to let her go and find out for herself with the hard knocks.

She is like her father, so here goes, I am to tell you all that she told me that she asked for her to go to the counselor with me this week. I said, maybe in 3 weeks, but we have an agenda, and I have asked all of them since their fathers affair, to go to counseling. But they listened to their father and his theory of lust and adultery and relationships. I asked repeadedly for the kids to go to counseling, and they said no. This has been over 2 years ago. I haven't asked in such a long time. Now, all of a sudden she wants to go this Friday, and I am to give my time up with my counselor and have her go. No, not going to happen. I did say maybe in a few weeks, but she went on oh so now that is the story. She talks like her father, and acts like her father. That is the identical statement her father would say. I just told her that it will be that way. And if she doesn't like it she can move in with her father.

Time is limited again, see Joe is a controller, and my daughter is following her fathers steps. I hate to see this, but she is 25 and knows how her father has controlled her life and really messed up her life. If she isn't willing to open her eyes, then that is something she will have to learn by herself. Now she is trying to control me here on MB, so oldest daughter I did type what you wanted, but no more. These are the exact words of your father, and this is really not a responsible way for a person to live. Think about what you said, and I did this, just to show the MB here how my life has been with your father and now you are following his footsteps.

Time to go. Busy with my homework.

Peachy, I have a feeling of what you are going to say. So go ahead and say it. I did tell her to move out. And she doesn't do many of her chores here. She makes excuses now cause her hand is in a cast. Is part of dad again, dad makes excuses for his losing things, not getting things done. And she is following the excuse pattern. I still love this daugher, but I don't like her actions. I hate to see her follow her fathers steps, cause her father has no friends, and this daughter is a very nice young woman with a great head on her shoulders, and people do like her. Cause she has my sociable side, and people do like her cause she is really kind inside, just her angers get out in very hostile manner. I do feel when she is out on her own and having to deal with everything by herself, she will straighten up. Right now she is under her dads rules, cause dad is paying for everything. She is stuck in an ugly position. And once again, she is doing what I did all those years. Answer the phone and no recognition, no pay, and no gratification.

I was talking to the accountants wife today, she knows X and I very well. And she made a comment, that she got a paycheck from the very first day that she worked for her husband. I told her that the counselors we saw (Harleys) and the counselors I have saw since then, said, if a husband cared and loved their wife they would of given you a paycheck from the very beginning. She agreed, and her husband wanted it for her from the very beginning. I told her that I asked over and over from my X and he said no. Because X didn't care what happened to me. This has been evident during the last 3 years. I have learned a lot, and seen the signs that I was only a machine for X, not a woman of caring and love.

The accountants wife, actually knows a little about the church I go to. And some people have been asking about me. So she is going to update them on what is happening. She and I prayed together, and said that she will put me and the kids in her prayers tonight. She is so happy with her husband of a long term marriage. And her husband is very loving and kind to her and is very happy. They have 3 children that all are married, and it was so nice to talk to her. So she gave me her new house # and said to call her next month. She wants to keep in touch, and I told her I was afraid to call, cause that Joe might get mad at me. But she informed me that she was very happy that I called, and wants to keep in touch.

Better go, been a rough few hours, when I started in daughters room to reiterate that the rules are that dad has to call me when he wants to come over. And she got so mad. I just said, I want to make sure, cause she literally does what dad wants. So anyways, she is upset, which she has the right to be, and I am upset, which I have the right to be. See, she has to answer the business line and I just wanted her to know that dad has to ask permission. Oh yes, she did say that is a stupid rule, and you are being stupid. More of dad and his talk. No respect from daughter and no respect from dad. Daughter like father.

This is outta control.

First of all, I don't state if or if not my x is marriage material. Literally any single person can be eligible for marriage if they are of a certain age and in some states, different sexes. And not relatives...(some of mine are in alabama, lol!) But hey, I grew up in MS.

Our x's are completely different. And I am not going to judge yours because your continued personal interaction w/him is MAKING IT ALL WORSE.

Now suddenly your DAUGHTER is here reading your posts. Why in the hades is your child/children reading up on your marital breakdown? They are still kids. And here you go on and on talking to them about "shameful Ms. Debi and their sex affair" and whatnot. Well I am sorry. You're forcing them to take sides and it's not healthy to blame one parent so openly. I don't care, I just ignore whole fact of x and his new W and baby with my son and if he asks me a question, I answer it UNBIASEDLY and then quickly move onto a more positive topic. How hard is that to do? Sucking a child into the drama of the parent is just damn wrong.

Whether they're five or fifteen , it's wrong.

And yea, I do get down but IT IS VALID. About finances, the stress and sometimes a vent now and then but no he said, she said and we don't go back and forth daily and I don't involve my son in it and I have boundaries with the man. Clear cut ones. And my down days are fewer and farther between than they were say a year ago.

What worries me is earlier you wrote of not wanting to live...are you still really on antidepressives? If you are, you'd best get to the doc or psych asap. Time for a big time med change if you're still having some mild suicidal thoughts. And your doc doesn't need to hear how your x committed adultery. Heck, I'd guess 99 percent of everybody here has gone through adultery. While the new crap an x can come up with is worthy of shock and awe, how long does it take to sink in that they did the affair, the deed has been done for some time now. Why the crap even mentioning Ms. Debi's name anymore? It's not new news.

What is bothering me most now is that your child is reading this and you are being completely passive/agressive about it. You post how decent she is but yet say negative things about her just like you do about her dad. Change your password here asap as your KIDS DO NOT NEED TO BE SURFING ON THE DIVORCED FORUM. This is a safe place for adults experiencing this transition and is a damaging and sad place for a child to wind up reading of especially if one of the posters is their parent...and especially if they read how their own parent is struggling with thoughts of suicide possibly.

I am believeing 100 percent now that you are all about getting a reaction out of your family and trying to somehow get your way...I don't know what it is. With the kids I think it is respect and them choosing you as the number one parent and them displacing their dad. With your x, you believe if you post negatively enough about him, about his continuing seeing the former OW, that we will jump down on him and bash him morally and take your side and voila! He will as a result of peer pressure here take your side and give up his ideas of being single and dating around and cave in and become who you want him to be.

If you were really wanting something else, you'd NOT ALLOW YOUR KIDS TO READ THIS STUFF. It's painful enough for adults, but to get the kids here is just plain wrong and I am offended by it as a parent. And it's a very sticky sitch too when your x gets on here and you both verbally have it out instead of speaking or emailing directly.

You've got huge family issues and I am saying to leave the kids out of it now completely.

I am asking you why now...why any of this? You are allowing your entire family to be privy to a place that is supposed to be private and supportive for you. It is betraying your healing when you do this. And it's scarring them. Do you think if they read about your crying, suffering, your thoughts regarding religion that it will spur them to change by virtue of reading your posts? People have what's called free will and they will especially to excessive lengths to preserve that will when somebody whether passively or aggressively tries to make them become somebody they are not.

I would throw my computer off of a 20 story building or out the window if I thought even once my son could be reading my posts as your child is.

Stop the controlling cycle. You are going too far. Get the kids outta your problems. Break this cycle once and for all. You cycle right back like I said earlier. Back to the passive aggressive/blame/mention the husband peppered with religious dogma posts. I don't think you can help it anymore.

I am not being mean, it is what it is. I have experienced several of my patients like this too. They constantly re-live each day their trauma of their abuse or divorce and don't get proper help for it. It keeps them frozen and they don't move on towards the future.

Also, I don't think you're being honest here with regard to your being around other men. Your daughter says you're dating...Hmmm. As a daughter who's dad died almost five years ago, I knew immediately when my own mother started dating a few years back. Pretty easy to note. And how is you dating or talking to men any different than your x talking to the former OW? Well, if you establish a relationship with any of these guys in the future are you calling yourself then an adulterer? Your x may be having premarital sex and had an affair with the ow, but it is different now b/c he's single. He should have had the honesty first and gotten single before sleeping around and I wish my x had done that...might have ended up feeling a bit differently about the mere thought of him and not get sickened when I see him or hear his voice mind you...But I can say that my dating is not adultery. And my x may have married the OW, but that's his deal. And sure, he's cheating on her now but that's HIS PROBLEM AND NOT MINE ANYMORE. Shocking yes, indecent yes, but NOT MY PROBLEM. I don't discuss with him his relationships and he has NO RIGHT TO DISCUSS MINE.

If you want to have a date, then have one. No need for explaining it away here to us. We are all for you moving ahead if that's what you want to do. But your minimizing it here makes me think you DON'T WANT YOUR X to know that you're doing it or considering dating one of these guys...no secrecy anymore. No need for it. In fact, you don't have to tell anybody if you want a date. I only posted about my dating AFTER i went out on a few. That was something I had to deal with alone.

Enough of this. Please stop this cycle. Is it apparent to you now that this is happening? The cycle? Same thing over and over like a broken record.

Faith,
I really think you need to tell oldest daughter to leave. She does not respect you and she needs to be on her own to become a independant well functioning adult. Not to be cruel but she is turning into you. She depends on her Father for everything and is unable to move ahead with her life. Is that what you want? Do you want her to be where you are in 30 years? The best thing you can do for her is boot her out of the nest. Tell her you love her but it's time to grow up.

This is outta control.

First of all, I don't state if or if not my x is marriage material. Literally any single person can be eligible for marriage if they are of a certain age and in some states, different sexes. And not relatives...(some of mine are in alabama, lol!) But hey, I grew up in MS.

Our x's are completely different. And I am not going to judge yours because your continued personal interaction w/him is MAKING IT ALL WORSE.

Now suddenly your DAUGHTER is here reading your posts. Why in the hades is your child/children reading up on your marital breakdown? They are still kids. And here you go on and on talking to them about "shameful Ms. Debi and their sex affair" and whatnot. Well I am sorry. You're forcing them to take sides and it's not healthy to blame one parent so openly. I don't care, I just ignore whole fact of x and his new W and baby with my son and if he asks me a question, I answer it UNBIASEDLY and then quickly move onto a more positive topic. How hard is that to do? Sucking a child into the drama of the parent is just damn wrong.

Whether they're five or fifteen , it's wrong.

And yea, I do get down but IT IS VALID. About finances, the stress and sometimes a vent now and then but no he said, she said and we don't go back and forth daily and I don't involve my son in it and I have boundaries with the man. Clear cut ones. And my down days are fewer and farther between than they were say a year ago.

What worries me is earlier you wrote of not wanting to live...are you still really on antidepressives? If you are, you'd best get to the doc or psych asap. Time for a big time med change if you're still having some mild suicidal thoughts. And your doc doesn't need to hear how your x committed adultery. Heck, I'd guess 99 percent of everybody here has gone through adultery. While the new crap an x can come up with is worthy of shock and awe, how long does it take to sink in that they did the affair, the deed has been done for some time now. Why the crap even mentioning Ms. Debi's name anymore? It's not new news.

What is bothering me most now is that your child is reading this and you are being completely passive/agressive about it. You post how decent she is but yet say negative things about her just like you do about her dad. Change your password here asap as your KIDS DO NOT NEED TO BE SURFING ON THE DIVORCED FORUM. This is a safe place for adults experiencing this transition and is a damaging and sad place for a child to wind up reading of especially if one of the posters is their parent...and especially if they read how their own parent is struggling with thoughts of suicide possibly.

I am believeing 100 percent now that you are all about getting a reaction out of your family and trying to somehow get your way...I don't know what it is. With the kids I think it is respect and them choosing you as the number one parent and them displacing their dad. With your x, you believe if you post negatively enough about him, about his continuing seeing the former OW, that we will jump down on him and bash him morally and take your side and voila! He will as a result of peer pressure here take your side and give up his ideas of being single and dating around and cave in and become who you want him to be.

If you were really wanting something else, you'd NOT ALLOW YOUR KIDS TO READ THIS STUFF. It's painful enough for adults, but to get the kids here is just plain wrong and I am offended by it as a parent. And it's a very sticky sitch too when your x gets on here and you both verbally have it out instead of speaking or emailing directly.

You've got huge family issues and I am saying to leave the kids out of it now completely.

I am asking you why now...why any of this? You are allowing your entire family to be privy to a place that is supposed to be private and supportive for you. It is betraying your healing when you do this. And it's scarring them. Do you think if they read about your crying, suffering, your thoughts regarding religion that it will spur them to change by virtue of reading your posts? People have what's called free will and they will especially to excessive lengths to preserve that will when somebody whether passively or aggressively tries to make them become somebody they are not.

I would throw my computer off of a 20 story building or out the window if I thought even once my son could be reading my posts as your child is.

Stop the controlling cycle. You are going too far. Get the kids outta your problems. Break this cycle once and for all. You cycle right back like I said earlier. Back to the passive aggressive/blame/mention the husband peppered with religious dogma posts. I don't think you can help it anymore.

I am not being mean, it is what it is. I have experienced several of my patients like this too. They constantly re-live each day their trauma of their abuse or divorce and don't get proper help for it. It keeps them frozen and they don't move on towards the future.

Also, I don't think you're being honest here with regard to your being around other men. Your daughter says you're dating...Hmmm. As a daughter who's dad died almost five years ago, I knew immediately when my own mother started dating a few years back. Pretty easy to note. And how is you dating or talking to men any different than your x talking to the former OW? Well, if you establish a relationship with any of these guys in the future are you calling yourself then an adulterer? Your x may be having premarital sex and had an affair with the ow, but it is different now b/c he's single. He should have had the honesty first and gotten single before sleeping around and I wish my x had done that...might have ended up feeling a bit differently about the mere thought of him and not get sickened when I see him or hear his voice mind you...But I can say that my dating is not adultery. And my x may have married the OW, but that's his deal. And sure, he's cheating on her now but that's HIS PROBLEM AND NOT MINE ANYMORE. Shocking yes, indecent yes, but NOT MY PROBLEM. I don't discuss with him his relationships and he has NO RIGHT TO DISCUSS MINE.

If you want to have a date, then have one. No need for explaining it away here to us. We are all for you moving ahead if that's what you want to do. But your minimizing it here makes me think you DON'T WANT YOUR X to know that you're doing it or considering dating one of these guys...no secrecy anymore. No need for it. In fact, you don't have to tell anybody if you want a date. I only posted about my dating AFTER i went out on a few. That was something I had to deal with alone.

Enough of this. Please stop this cycle. Is it apparent to you now that this is happening? The cycle? Same thing over and over like a broken record.

I am not dating, just talking to guys at church, and 2 are married for heavens sake. I am not interested in dating. And the one guy I talk to is divorced but nothing is happening out of it. Don't want anything to happen, cause I am still finding my life after being controlled for 25 years.

I did tell her to move out and have told her to move out. We will see what she does. She has lived here, snf of course she does what her father says.

There is one aspect, that I never thought of but someone else did. That she may be making it hard for me, cause that way I will move out and then X can move back in. Something I never thought of, and it won't happen. I will sell this place before that happens. She is pushing buttons, and knowing what hurts and what doesn't.

I don't want her reading here, but she said she can follow my writing.

Anyways, I will like I said earlier, probably not post here much and continue on with my life. It is sad that a child has to take over her fathers steps, and act like him. She is a good person inside and I do love her. But I don't like her actions. Too much control.

Good bye for a while. Be back when things cool down. Have stated tonight to my son, and my son did listen to me, that these are the rules. He said do whatever you have to, and I said this needs to be done. I have asked for over a year from the X, and X never followed my request. So now this is being done, for my protection. Son at least understood, and said do it. Didn't say he liked it, he is much easier to talk with. He listens and will tell me a better way of stating my decisions. He also stated that daughter talks in reaction to my emotions. So will work on that, and hopefully she will decide to have more respect towards me.

Talked to pastor tonight. He said he would call me this week. Talked a little about what is happening but we talked about a more serious issue that we needed to talk about. And he made some suggestions about daughter. I have put a paper on the wall for things that the 25 year old needs to get done everyday. She will initial and date the jobs as done. I will have to approve. At least there won't be a breakdown of job to be getting done daily. And I will work talking with her, and communicating my needs. She can voice her needs as well. She has everything provided for her. A home, food, shower, shampoo, clothes soap, etc. I pay all the utilities, and taxes on the house. All she has to do is answer the business line and work on her business site. Not much to ask of a 25 year old. And I have asked her to make dinner on Thursdays when I am at school. So she and the boys can eat dinner. I would of loved to have these few daily jobs, but it seems too much for her. But this is reality.

Have the income tax thing basically situated. Talked to accountants wife, and she was more than willing to help. So I feel good about that, and I will beable to continue on my path of moving ahead.

I am going to leave up counseling for the X and daughter to find. If they want to counsel, then they can find a counselor. I tried in the beginning of the affair, and it was ruled out. Also, I am too busy with all I ahve to get done with schooling. So if it is important for them, let them work on it and figure it out.

Was suggested to me tonight by my Pastor. Of course, X will have to pay for it, since my finances are low.

Peachy, X has his life and how he lives it is under Gods eyes. I have my life, and I am being honest that I don't date anyone. No one, NO NO NO!!! First of all I don't trust a man, cause all they want is sex. I am not ready for this dating, and would just say no anyway. I will never have sex before marriage again. X wanted it when we were young, and taught me, which was a mistake. This time, I want a man to love me for me, and nothing else. But to love God first. No sex.

I want God to see my marriage with another man under Gods eyes. Therefore, there will never be sex before marriage. I was never a promiscous woman and never will be. That is why X compared me to the other woman, cause she was superior in that department. Of course she had more men, I only had my husband.

Off the track. So Peachy, I am telling the truth, I have not dated, and if you want to believe elsewise, do what you want. But God knows, and I know a man will never get close to me until I am ready and until there is a marriage under Gods eyes. Just the way it is going to be. My hormones are drying up like the rest of my body at a little over 50. If God wants me single the rest of my life, so be it. I know I will be okay with it.

As far as anti-depressants. You have no idea how controlling X is. You have no idea how he manipulated and uses his samantics. He is good at this, and has done it for many years. No more, I am done with emotional and verbal abuse. Done.

Bye Peachy, will not respond for about a week. Need to have things cool down here. I talked to pastor Jim tonight and it was useful. He knows there is a lot of tension, and today I was very angry at X. It seems that I move ahead, getting things done, and X puts a roadblock. Almost like he does it on purpose to hurt me. Like the e-mail was diliberate to hurt me. I know this now about the e-mail and have to learn to let it slide, and I do feel sorry for him that he resorted to this verbal reduction. One day, his return will come, God is watching.

Oh, so I talked to Pastor Jim tonight, is that dating and if I call him from my cell phone is that dating? No! It is talking to someone that listens, and gives me the Lords help. This is not dating, and the guys I talk to just help me on a perspective of a mans point of view. Most of the guys don't know much about my life. Pastor Jim knows a great amount, but not all. And he knows that, cause I didn't feel comfortable telling him about some of the things I have had to deal with, and he understands completely.

Good bye for about a week.

<small>[ March 22, 2004, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: Faith4me ]</small>

Is there a psychiatrist in the house?

Im sorry, but I do believe that this has gotten out of control. We cant help Faith with anything we say. She needs to seek help from a doctor. I dont want to be a person to judge, but there seem to me to be some serious psychiatric issues here.

faith, please get some help for you. This is not about your EX, this is about you. The past month I have not seen any improvement in your recovery. In fact, all I see is you continuing to spiral further down. You really need some help and we cant help you. You have to do it all on your own.

I will be praying that you seek competent help from a doctor.
Dawn

<small>[ March 22, 2004, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: sunrise1 ]</small>

Peachy, all of my comments will be directed to you. I've long since given up trying to get through to F4M:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by justpeachy:
<strong> I don't state if or if not my x is marriage material. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally, it was F4M's X, SNL, who started stating if someone were to be "marriage material." I believe this was the onclusion he finally came to........that he married someone who was NOT marriage material. He was simply rectifying (justifying?) in his mind what he had done in breaking up his family/committing infidelity.
I believe this is in response to his years of long-suffering at her passive/aggressive hands.
Possibly even mental instability as has been stated here. I believe F4M (AND SNL) should have had some extensive counseling (not just M counseling) for their "problems." Didn't happen. Oh, well. We are here seeing a small snippet of the dynamics that was their life together. Quite dysfunctional at best.

But to get back to my main point: That phrase, "marriage material" was HIS phrase originally. I believe the man had a "Giver Snap" after years of being manipulated by the "Poor, put-upon, woe-is-me, feel sorry for me, I M'd such an ogre...." tirades we see here.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whether they're five or fifteen , it's wrong.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong>
But, Peachy, THEY'RE ALL ADULTS!!! ALL their kids are over 18!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They are all old enough to be making their own minds up. THEY LIVED IT, they KNOW these two people......NO ONE has to "tell" them anything about how the other parent is. They know. They know WAAAAY better than any of us do.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> Why the crap even mentioning Ms. Debi's name anymore? It's not new news. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I think it's worth noting that what F4M does is re-hash the past constantly. I'm not (meaning to) bash her. It's just that her behavior reminds me SO MUCH of what I lived as a teen-ager with my parents. When my dad left us (for OW), my mom pretty much flipped out.....
CONSTANT talk about what a whore "she" was, what a R-A-T "he" was. She never did get past it. And she never had a healthy relationship with anyone after that. 6 years later, when she died, she was still bitter and angry at him.......meanwhile he went on to marry ow, and stay m'd to OW 13 years (same # of yrs as my parents, so that was weird.)

My point is some people just never DO get over it. They don't allow themselves to heal. Partly, I think, b/c they need psychological help for many issues, only one of which is the M/div they go through. I think my mom needed major psychiatric help. She had other "issues" for sure, but my dad's betrayal certainly didn't help.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>What is bothering me most now is that....you are being completely passive/agressive about it.

I am believeing 100 percent now that you are all about getting a reaction out of your family and trying to somehow get your way</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BINGO!!!
I am of the opinion that this is exactly the dynamic that once worked in their M. She hasn't figured out yet that he broke out of that cycle and never wants to return.

I believe F4M is extremely passive/aggressive and IT WORKED with SNL (and children) for many years. She would have a "tirade" about something or other, pull out her "poor me.....look how upset you've made me....." and they would all back down. Now it doesn't work with family anymore, so she's here trying to get US to give her that sympathy for HIS misdeeds and let her own destructive behavior go.

I also believe there was a time when SNL was somewhat "open" to reconciling and they may have had a chance to repair their M. BUT, she couldn't get past the A, couldn't get past how he had "broken" their cycle of relating. She didn't know how to change how she related to him. She didn't want to Plan A.......she didn't want to acknowledge her part in the breakdown of their M. To this day, I still haven't heard her admit WHAT she has done that led to their M being broken. She never talks about what EN's of his that she didn't meet........

She doesn't like the fact that her actions don't push his buttons in the old way anymore. This is why she keeps telling us about him hurting her shoulder. I believe it WAS an accident. NOT an abusive, aggressive move on his part. SHE was pushing him, attacking him (verbally at least), and he was pushing back...or tried to push past her and get OUT of the house....He was NOT backing down, like in previous times. This angered her. Now she has to live with the pain, the therapy, the disability of it, so she continues to try to play on his sympathy for the action he did. He doesn't fall for it. So she keeps coming back and "reminding" us how terrible and abusive he was, and how she lives with the constant pain of it all, because he's so abusive, blah, blah, blah.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am asking you why now...why any of this? Do you think if they read about your crying, suffering, your thoughts regarding religion that it will spur them to change by virtue of reading your posts?

Stop the controlling cycle. You are going too far. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe it worked before. We'll just keep it up till it works again!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If you want to have a date, then have one. No need for explaining it away here to us. We are all for you moving ahead if that's what you want to do. But your minimizing it here makes me think you DON'T WANT YOUR X to know that you're doing it or considering dating one of these guys... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't figure this out at all, either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Peachy, I think you hit the nail dead on the head! Thanks for writing what I have been thinking for over 2 years now.

I really don't think anyone here is qualified to help F4M get past these issues. They are too deep seated.

I do hope, for HER sake, that she recognizes this at some point and gets help, though. I'm sure there really IS a lovely, kind lady underneath all that baggage...........

Thank you Lupolady!!!! Good gravy, this same song's been sung for three years now and a lot of us who watched the whole Thinker/SNL fiasco saw exactly what you see.

No one should have any doubt as to why this marriage failed and it sure had little to do with the affair.

I am concerned faith about your meds you're taking and if you are still on antidepressant. You didn't mention it.

That is utmost importance here. Getting you whole. And getting past this.

And no, dating does not mean SEX. Does my dating mean I'm shagging about four different guys? Absolutely not. It means opening up my life for meeting different friends.

You're an adult. No need to call the pastor to ask him what constitutes a date. But if you are leaning too much emotionally on a married man who's a friend, then I'd back off as that's off bounds and you'd agree.

Quit worrying about the whole ball of wax. Take everything 1 step at a time. First thing is to heal yourself. That would mean going to counselor/psych or getting your doc and counselor together to determine which med is right and appropriate counseling approach now. The time is at hand for you to heal. Even when an unbeliever leaves, God commands us to live in peace. I take it to mean that God wants me to do what I have to do to heal myself. I am even helping a woman in my women's bible study group just about your age going thru a devastating divorce right now...her stbxh has 2 OW. Two kids teenagers too.

She got hooked up last week with a great psychologist I knew here. He's got her on the med I told you about and she started feeling relief about five days later and has been able to finally think "less thoughts" and less "scattered thinking". It's helped her focus on the here and now.

Do I get mad and think my x's OW/W is a whore? Sure I do. But I would rather pull my teeth out one by one than let my x ever hear me say it or tell it to my son. People learn by seeing the actions of others. That's the watermark of life. It's not what you SAY to somebody or write, it's what you DO that has the impact.

Back up, don't get mad. See that it's 3 years later. Time is marching on. It's not stopping for anybody and we aren't promised one more second. It's time to live again. Start over. You can be made new and God would like to be a part of it. But you've got to do a bit of work in the meantime. That means getting yourself together and you will find that you're so much more as a woman than you could ever be. I had to have the humility to go to a counselor and tell them I'd gone through abuse and adultery and a divorce and that I needed that kind of help. Then I made darn sure I got on the best, fastest acting antidepressant and began wading thru this stinking pile of crud that used to be my life.

Finances aren't straight yet. Still stuff to work through for sure, but I am moving closer to good, even great a little more each day. Dating hasn't scared me...it's made me realize my x was the one wacked. Proved him wrong in the end. But I'd like to see you prove that you're more than you think you are TO YOURSELF.

You can do it. But 3 years post affair/breakdown of m is too long to be having this great of a depression and even the recurrecnt themes of suicide now. That is a signal to change what you're doing..Remember Einstein's quote? Definition of insanity is doing the SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING THE OUTCOME TO BE DIFFERENT. That's why you need to chang the direction of your life now. And it'snot dependent on finances or anything. This first step begins with you going and finding the right help and new med and new psych/counselor . Remember, if your psych help is not either a psychiatrist or a psychologist, they will not be able to write meds..So if it's just a counselor you're seeing, they will need to work in conjunction with your physician.

And I am going to say this...worst and I mean ABSOLUTELY WORST COUNSELING I EVER GOT was from a "christian counselor". She was horrible and even believed the x the one time he came in and lied to her point blank. Didn't offer me any real motive or therapy. Just had me read stuff and pray more. And I did that. But nothing changed. When I went to a MS degreed counselor next, she did some therapy to help me change dynamics in my life and boy did things move differently and positively. I also got on the lexapro for a very short time. Are yo seeing the church pastor or counselor? Because they are not mental health experts. Sure they have some experience, but to get therapy and intensive therapy, you need to go to an expert in the field. Not saying this to down christian counselors, it's just that for a heart attack would you to go a chiropractor? I don't think so. You'd go see a cardiologist especially trained for your illness.

I just have to say that I have been reading this post from the start and although I haven't responded earlier I have to agree with what has been said many times over.

This is not normal behavior three years after the fact. There are deep seeded feelings of anger and resentment. There is also an evident feeling of abandonment combined with an assumption of being the helpless victim. You say you would never want your XH back and how much better your life is, etc., etc., but then bash him repeatedly. If he is as bad as you say and you truly feel your life is better you wouldn't have the time to worry about what he is doing because you'd be too busy living and being happy. You seem to be obsessed with the whole situation. Although you are hurting a lot of people and also estranging yourself from them, the true person you are hurting is yourself because you are going to end up bitter and alone. You seem totally codependent, swept up in emotions and actions that are out of control. You are making threats of boundaries, but never carrying them out. Your life is out of control so therefore you are on a mission to control everyone around you. If you haven't read anything by Melody Beattie, I suggest you do it now.

I agree with the med. situation as well. Get it checked out immediately. I have never taken them myself, but know enough about them to know that they are not working. You bounce from thoughts of suicide one day to being much better the next. I don't think so. You need to heal yourself. You need to let this go before it destroys you.

Take care of yourself so you can discover what life truly has to offer you. It is time to stop playing the victim and take control of your own destiny because from the looks of it, the only one hurting you is you.

Take care and God bless!
K

I empathize with you because I think that I have had a very similar outlook and consequences. The intentions are the best -- to sacrifice in order to earn love -- but when love is not given, anger and resentment are the result. It's a very twisted view that Christ sacrificed for us so we need to sacrifice for others.

Christ gave us two commandments, and the second is "Love your neighbor as yourself." I always thought that "as yourself" was out of place. That's because my whole emphasis was on sacrifice, giving to others, and the A just blew me away. I deserved my H because I sacrificed so he could go golfing, go running, etc. I gave him the downtime he desired, but I was a willing victim.

What you need to see, above all, is that it was no coincidence -- just a bad judgment in choice of mate -- that led to your being where you are today. You need to take care of you.

Hi Faith4Me! I'll respond in **and CAPS** because I don't know how to do all those fancy little quote/re-quotes etc. hehee Personally, I see YOU as exactly where I was almost 6 years ago when I was in Divorce Country.. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Faith4me:
<strong>.. Yes, there are still triggers, and one of the things that XH still doesn't do, is call me to see if it is okay to come over here. **YOU SHOULD TELL HIM IT IS !!NOT!! OK FOR HIM TO COME OVER TO YOUR PLACE. HE LOST THAT PRIVILEGE WHEN HE CHEATED ON YOU AND DIVORCED YOU** He did it last night, and that will stop, he has been warned. **WHAT PART OF 'NO' DOESN'T HE UNDERSTAND? PERHAPS A RESTRAINING ORDER MIGHT CLARIFY IT FOR HIM** Part of his pattern is he does what he wants without any consideration to others. **BUTT THEN THE CONSEQUENCES OF HIS ACTIONS COMES BACK AND BITES HIM IN THE A$S** There is no need for him to be here ever. **EXACTLY - NO NEED OR REASON WHATSOEVER** All the kids drive, and can go to his little bedroom at his mothers house. **THAT'S RIGHT, LET HIM RUN TO HIS MOMMY JUST LIKE A CHILD WOULD**
Just want to stay out of his life. His demands are still present, and his obnoxious behavior is still present. **THEY SHOULDN'T BE. WHATEVER DEMANDS OR WANTS HE HAS WERE TOTALLY FORFEITED WHEN HE CHEATED ON YOU AND LEFT YOU** If I don't do as he asks, he yells and still calls me occasionally a FB, just 1 1/2 weeks ago. **KNOW WHAT WORKED FOR ME WHEN MY EX-WIFE WOULD DO THAT TO ME. IT'S CALLED 'CLICK!' THE PHONE THE VERY SECOND THE FIRST CUSS WORD AND/OR YELLING AND/OR RAISED VOICE, AND/OR DEMAND, ETC. WOULD COME OUT OF HER MOUTH. NO WARNING, JUST "CLICK" AND THEN I LEFT THE PHONE OFF THE HOOK FOR 1 HOUR. WORKED EVERY TIME. SHE QUIT CALLING IN JUST A FEW DAYS! TRY IT, YOU'LL BE AMAZED AT HOW WELL IT WORKS** Cause I wouldn't do as he said, I don't have to anymore. **DARN TOOTIN' YOU DON'T HAVE TO** But he is still trying to control me, **THAT'S TOUGH, HE LOST THAT RIGHT TO EVEN REQUEST ANYTHING OF YOU WHEN HE LEFT YOU, MUCH LESS DEMAND ANYTHING AT ALL** and he hates the boundaries I have set. **THAT'S TOUGH TOO, YOU ARE A PERSON WITH RIGHTS AND BOUNDARIES AND HE HAS NO RIGHT TO STEP ALL OVER YOURS** See, he preached to me and to my oldest daughter that one doesn't need credit. **WHAT A LIAR - WE ALL NEED CREDIT** But he has his mommys credit card to use, **WAIT A MINUTE - I THOUGHT HE SAID HE DIDN'T NEED CREDIT. WHAT'S HE DOING USING SOMEONE ELSE'S CARD. CAN YOU SAY HYPOCRISY** and now my oldest daughter has grandmas credit card to use.
But now he has to work on the time frame of the divorce decree now, since I have the judge to back me up now. **YOU GO, GIRL**

XH is not marriage material, and until he changes his behavior and attitude, he will be a lonely old overweight bald man. **YEP. GONNA SUCK TO BE HIM PRETTY SOON NOW. CHICKS DON'T DIG FAT OLD BALD MEN HEHEHEEE**

Things are changing for the better for me. **THAT'S GREAT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ** I enjoy reading, doing my schoolwork, not having someone criticize me. **YOU STAND UP FOR YOURSELF AND DON'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO ANY OF HIS CRAPOLA** I enjoy my kids, and we are having saturday to go see The Passion. And a cheap dinner. Told the kids, it is going to be tough, and I can't be like disneyland dad and buy airplane tickets, and movies and dinner all the time. They at least know that I care about them, and tell them that I love them everyday. **THAT'S GREAT. YOU HAVE YOUR CHILDREN AND AT LEAST HE HASN'T BRAINWASHED THEM AGAINST YOU LIKE MY VINDICTIVE EX DID MINE. CONSIDER YOURSELF FORTUNATE HERE** That is what counts, and I said whatever happens happens. I am moving on with my life, and with the Lord.

I really don't ask X what he is doing anymore, cause it doesn't concern me. **EXACTLY, IT'S LIKE.. WHO GIVES A RAT'S A$$ WHAT HE DOES?** He just mentioned this last night that he if flying out to ARizona, for what reason I don't know. **AND YOU COULD SAY, "WELL WHOOP-DE-DOO. WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO, JUMP UP AND DOWN AND SHOUT ABOUT IT?" He doesn't say other things to me, but it could of been a dig to get me, or it could of been just a thoughtful note. Who knows at this point. **NEXT TIME HE CALLS, JUST TELL HIM "DON'T CALL HERE ANYMORE. I DON'T CARE ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO AS YOU'RE A BIG BOY NOW AND YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN SO LEAVE ME ALONE. THANK YOU!" THEN YOU HANG UP ON HIM. HE'LL GET THE MESSAGE SOON ENOUGH. And I do believe it would be beneficial for him to get out on his own for a change. **BEING ON HIS OWN MEANS HE CUTS ALL THE STRINGS, AND THAT MEANS YOU HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY TO HIM TO LISTEN TO HIM, TO DO ONE SINGLE THING FOR HIM, AND SINCE HE CHOSE THIS BED, THEN HE NEEDS TO SLEEP IN IT AND THAT IS A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OF THE CHOICE HE MADE. YOU OWE HIM NOT A FRIGGING THING!** Just my beliefs, and that way he won't be around here anymore. Makes breaking away much easier.


No more updates on X, for he is history, and is getting out of my mind. Takes time, after 25 years of marriage, that was controlled by him. Divorce was June of 2003. It takes time, but am doing much better than last fall. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Faith4Me, I do pray and hope you DO move on - I know how you feel. My X was a controlling and very spiteful manipulative woman, and it took me some time to get over her. Butt, trust me, you WILL move on, and doing the above things worked for me quite well. Try them, you'll LOVE the results! Do it for YOU.
Today is the first day of the rest of your life (without him in it to RUIN it for you) Go for it!
Just A Suggestion.
Sincerely, TDL (Harold)

Ok, I have to intervene here. Before any of you post anything further to Faith4me, please read the following:

Post Part 1 of 3
Post Part 2 of 3
Post Part 3 of 3

Then, if you would like to you can ask me further questions or come to your own conclusions.

Now on to Sauron’s post (btw LOTR fan as well!). I will address some of your comments, though these will probably only make sense if you read the above links. Those links explain who I am and the other side of the story.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just want to stay out of his life. His demands are still present, and his obnoxious behavior is still present. **THEY SHOULDN'T BE. WHATEVER DEMANDS OR WANTS HE HAS WERE TOTALLY FORFEITED WHEN HE CHEATED ON YOU AND LEFT YOU** </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, this would all be fine and dandy, except she doesn’t stay out of his life. She doesn’t want to, she wants to know what he is doing and who he is with. I know, because she comes and complains to me about the stuff he is doing, including stuff that has nothing to do with her. As, I told her this weekend, forget about it, move on with your life. But, she won’t.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I enjoy my kids, and we are having saturday to go see The Passion. And a cheap dinner. Told the kids, it is going to be tough, and I can't be like disneyland dad and buy airplane tickets, and movies and dinner all the time. They at least know that I care about them, and tell them that I love them everyday. **THAT'S GREAT. YOU HAVE YOUR CHILDREN AND AT LEAST HE HASN'T BRAINWASHED THEM AGAINST YOU LIKE MY VINDICTIVE EX DID MINE. CONSIDER YOURSELF FORTUNATE HERE** </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She doesn’t need to tell us kids it is tough, we don’t expect her to do anything. It is nice that she took us to the movies and dinner, however we would be happier to see her let go of the anger she has built up inside over time, well at least my entire life, which is 25 years. I have to assume it existed before that. And, yes we do know she cares for us. However, her next few words “tell them that I love them everyday” couldn’t be further from the truth. This is what I mean about her fabricating things. The last time she told me she loves me was when I was in Cali, that was about a month ago. She only says she loves me when either I am leaving for out of town, or on the phone when I am out of town. And, this is when we are getting along. Instead everyday she speaks in anger to her children. Not necessarily angry at her children, but taking out her anger, of either my dad or her life, on her children.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I really don't ask X what he is doing anymore, cause it doesn't concern me. **EXACTLY, IT'S LIKE.. WHO GIVES A RAT'S A$$ WHAT HE DOES?** He just mentioned this last night that he if flying out to ARizona, for what reason I don't know. **AND YOU COULD SAY, "WELL WHOOP-DE-DOO. WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO, JUMP UP AND DOWN AND SHOUT ABOUT IT?" He doesn't say other things to me, but it could of been a dig to get me, or it could of been just a thoughtful note. Who knows at this point. **NEXT TIME HE CALLS, JUST TELL HIM "DON'T CALL HERE ANYMORE. I DON'T CARE ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT YOU DO AS YOU'RE A BIG BOY NOW AND YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN SO LEAVE ME ALONE. THANK YOU!" THEN YOU HANG UP ON HIM. HE'LL GET THE MESSAGE SOON ENOUGH. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The reason he told her about going to Arizona is because if he didn’t, he never would have heard the end of it. She would have chewed him out for hours for not having respect to tell her he was leaving town. In fact, when he told me he was leaving, my first thought was when are you telling mom? I know, he knows, my siblings know, my grandmas knows that if he didn’t tell her, my mom would not leave him be. And, even then she still didn’t leave him be, she called him numerous times each day he was in Arizona. So, so much for her wanting to forget about him???

Again, I just want to clear up discrepancies here so you can better advise my mom.

A-Diff_view--

So tell your mom--it's not her business--what your dad does--and he can do the same thing--encourage him that way too--

Well we have had the war of the roses, now we have family feud... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

A_diff_view:
Your mother made her own choices. She was not forced to stay in a bad M. I grew up with a supposedly happily married mother and father but, with the explosion in our own marriage, I see now that my mother is very disrespectful of my father and more or less gets her own way on everything -- and she humiliates him if he disagrees with her. Guess what I did when I went into our marriage? It took five years for my H to say enough and he did it by cracking my skull. I then entered the world of his parents' marriage, with his mother completely ignored by his father. And I blew up, not after a broken arm but after I exposed an affair.

Please realize that you have some hidden assumptions about how marriage is supposed to be. If you are aware of it, you may be able to change it. But don't get married until you find someone who believes in win-win approaches to problems. Your mother, like me, believed in sacrifice and tried her best -- from what I gather, I don't know of course -- to be the best wife and mother she could, and she is overwhelmed with anger that she should end up as she has. Your father seems to have an element of cruelty in him that he would have much dealing with her now. The marriage failed. There is no reason for them to continue communicating.

Just my thoughts.... I have a H willing to work on the M, so I'm in a different spot from your mother, but two years ago I was where she is now and it was dreadful. I used to wake up asking God to have me killed -- maybe a car accident? I didn't want to live. And yet my Christian faith kept me alive.

Please love your mother. She needs it.