I've been having quite a bit of trouble with my 2 older children lately. They have always been disrespectful and disobedient, but have gotten worse since my separation. They spend most nights with their father because I work nights as a nurse. They are with me every day after school for 4 hours and then go to Daddy's for the night. I have them overnight only on my nights off and every other weekend. They get used to being with Daddy, who lets them stay up later than I approve of, lets them listen to inappropriate music, and watch inappropriate movies (in my opinion). They argue about most everything and say, "but Daddy this or that". I'm tired of it. I am not their father, and being a Christian, I have different values and expectations. Our middle daughter has a big problem with hitting and kicking me and her sisters. Last night when she was on the phone "tattling" to her father about me, she kicked me in "the privates". Her father says she is just acting like a typical 8 year old. I totally disagree. She also has a problem with touching her younger sister's privates and her older sister's developing breasts. Every day I need to tell her that this behavior is inappropriate and unacceptable. I don't know what to do about these problems. I give consequences for these behaviors, but nothing seems to work. I feel like I have "little bp22's" here with me for their disrespectful behavior. I would appreciate any comments or suggestions becuase I'm at my wits end here. Thank you. Mary.

I would start by reading 1-2-3 Magic by a Dr. Phelan, I think that's his name, and You Can't Make Me But I Can Be Pursuaded by Cynthia Tobias. They are both great books.

Has middle daughter seen that behavior modeled elsewhere? TV even counts.

Can you talk with the dad about some of this stuff?

As for the differences between houses, I always explained some things as exactly that - the difference between houses. What was acceptable here might not always follow the house rules there and vice versa. And some of the clothes my x has bought have been sent back because I would not allow d to dress that way. Cotton/spandex pants that fit like paint are not appropriate for a 13-y-o in my opinion. If she wears them while there, she wears them. Meanwhile, I explain that some things they ask to do are not things that I think present a good image for a Christian therefore we will not be doing those things.

<small>[ March 29, 2004, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: cinderella ]</small>

Here are some of my written notes from a tape series called "Raising Kids Right" by Dr. Ray Guiardi (spelling). See www.kidbrat.com

Pinball discipline: the theory that, if you use the right discipline, the child will get better; if it doesn’t happen right away, then a different discipline needs to be used; what is most important is discipline consistency; discipline consistency ratio = #times a child is disciplined/# times child does something which should have a consequence

Pick your battles: theory that you should “let the little stuff go”; if the behavior is wrong or immoral or hurts someone, it should be dealt with, no matter how small; “appealing the decision” – going to Mom when Dad said no or vice versa – is a punishable offense because it is deceptive

Discipline: establishes the link between bad behavior and discipline; the parent who sees the behavior should discipline the child, and the other parent should back up that parent

Rule of Discipline: the simpler it is, the more likely we are to do it; the more likely we are to do it, the better it works and the less we have to do it. Parents look at discipline issues and set up “house rules” in advance of the behavior occurring. House rules will only work when there is co-operation between parents. Children will learn quickly which parent has expectations and will enforce them.

Discipline main stays: something we can use immediately that is quick and simply
- For pre-schoolers: time-outs separate the parent and child; boring for child; can be enforced anywhere, anytime
- For children ages 8 and up:
- Essays make punishment fit the crime if crime is disrespect; quantifiable; puts conscience on paper; pre-empt any privileges until I get my essay; essays have to be respectful; if child swears, it is evident that child needs a bigger vocabulary: example of discipline is to write 10 words, define them, and use them in a sentence.
- Labor: if you have that much energy, you can pull a job from the job jar or
you get the job you select from a target


Escalation: the majority of children resist discipline; child’s attitude can be “Don’t discipline me or I’ll get worse; children won’t do it just because the parent says so. The child challenges authority by defiance.

Blackout: parent’s response to escalation. When a child refuses to take a consequence, there is the complete and total cessation of all privileges: phone, TV, computer, laundry, transportation services, dessert, dinner as green beans and soup. The parent controls everything and can shut it all down until the parent gets the consequence.

Illusion of discipline: WORDS! The mouth is not an instrument of discipline. The parent needs to back words with consequences. Words will work if in the past they have been backed up with consequences.

Start early teaching children the habits of virtue. If you don’t teach a child the habit, it takes a lot longer to form the virtue.

Specific discipline issues:
1) Disrespect: respect is the cornerstone of relationships, disrespect is anything that would hurt a personal relationship and leads to anger and frustration; expressing feelings is not the same as disrespect; deal with it firmly, strongly, and without negotiation.
2) Whining: children, usually between 3 and 8, editorialize on how the house is run; it can grate on parents; the rule is: if you whine, the answer is no.
3) Sibling quibbling: the problem is that you can’t figure out what happened. The rule is: When it gets loud enough for me to hear it, automatic, no questions asked, all parties involved get consequences. Write 15 nice things about the other person. Set boundaries for what you as the parent will tolerate.
4) Meal ordeal: children get picky. Do not be a short order cook. Put a time limit on the meal. After the time limit, the meal is over. No dessert and no other food. Parents can get nervous if the child doesn’t eat.
5) Homework hassles: in this entertainment society, children are bored with homework and don’t do it; set up a study time right after school; if the child lies about assignments, have an assignment notebook initialed by teacher; without that, there are no evening privileges – no excuses accepted. If things are missing, the child can go to their room for the rest of the evening or the parent can assign a different assignment as a substitute. You have to do it for the entire year in order for it to be successful.


Guide what you decide by God’s truth.


It was a rough start implementing this program -- the 10 year old threw and broke the "consideration chair", wrote a 25 word essay on leaving her bathrobe on the floor which was blah, blah, blah, also hit me three times and tried to run away. This girl is a "teacher's pet" at school and has not been much of a problem at home except for being sloppy.

My 4 year old said two sweet things in the last week related to the program: 1. She had a great idea. She set up four chairs in the living room so that all four kids could have time outs at the same time. and 2. She likes the nightly 15 minute family pickup time because the house is pretty.

Hope this helps... My kids have witnessed physical abuse of me, inlcuidng a violent spanking. They have heard us arguing. They have hidden. We have not been good role models at all, and yet they are responding to this program very well. I borrowed the tapes after the New Year and just returned them last week, so a dramatic change in our kids' behavior took just a few weeks.

Great ideas that I need to implement.

And look into the Rainbows programs.
www.rainbows.org These are peer grief counseling sessions for children of death or divorce.
My children keep asking for the class, but they aren't having it this spring. It gave them a place to talk about their feelings, openly.
They are seeing a counselor, but they'd prefer the rainbows classes.

Also, buy Mom's House/Dad's House and How to help yor children cope with divorce the Sandcastles way.

Good Luck.

This is Dad here...mp22 and I are getting divorced.

I am very willing to treat this as an "open" session in listening to comments and advice, for us both.

For what it's worth mp22, I told MAK on the phone last night that what she did was totally unacceptable, and that she had better apologize to you. Under no circumstances should she hit you, I told her. So, I agree with you, her behavior was inappropriate, and I don't know what she was calling to complain about in the first place.

I would like to know what the inappropriate music is however. Are you refering to Kidz Bop? Or are you refering to Alison Kraus? I don't consider either of the inappropriate...although much of the kidz bop with drive me nuts! LOL

Also, I wish you would feel more free to talk about these things with me directly, face to face, or at least via emaul. I don't know what "inappropriate movies" you are refering to either. I can only assume it was the first 5 minutes to scream. Yeah, it is scarey. Is that what you are refering too?

Did you ever read the 5 love languages of children? Did you pick the languages of MAK out? Have you tried to employ any of the suggestions?

I think, personally, that MAK has been coming along very well. Her teacher agrees...and I thought things at your home were improving as well.

Have you been spending time with the four of you together as a family? Doing things all together? I have heard about the two televisions, and I fear that you will loose everything with MAK if you let her have that outlet.

I don't know, but I think you have to be careful with "things being better" meaning more withdrawl on her part. Maybe that is what I am sensing from her, less interaction, and therefore fewer problems. But that's not acceptable, in my opinion, if that is why things seem better.

A typical night here may include a little tv, lizzy mcguire for example. But then it is off...almost always...and we get ready for bed. We will read. We may play checkers. We may do the picture finding things. We've been working on T's boat. We might listen to some music and dance a bit, play a little piano, etc.

But the point is, almost always, it is all 4 of us doing things together. It is extremely rare that one is off by themselves. It NEVER happens that I am by myself.

I thought things iwth M were improving...but like I said, maybe what I sense of less problems, is more individualism on her part.

I'm very interesting in exploring all the options here. You are their mom, I sure don't want them to be putting me against you, or playing the games of favorites, or any of that nonsense. We do have differnt beliefs regarding sleep and such, always have. But I hope that you make sure to keep the channels of communication open with me when it comes to the kids.

Independence (with personal responsibility) vs Obedience (with no personal responsibility)

I have an INTJ personality type and perhaps this is why I've always taught my daughter to be independent with responsibility. My friends frequenty comment on how well-behaved and intelligent she is. It's funny how I don't have to tell my 7 year old daughter to do things much. She knows when it's time for bed and that she has to brush her teeth, etc. She often reminds me of things she needs. Why? The burden of keeping up with her own things is on her, as it should be. I'm teaching her to be independent and responsible and she is thriving.

Obedience requires force and thus often results in backlash. Behavior is negatively affected when using force as children look to you as the model. Self-esteem of the child is crushed as they may eventually give into your force.

Developing independence is a bit more difficult as you must constantly explain why we do things certain ways for our own benefit, but as you gain momementum, things get easier and easier. You have to teach them things... Why we must brush our teeth... Why we may hear bad lyrics in songs, but don't repeat them... Why you shouldn't look at certain things or do certain things even if you're exposed to them... Personal responsibility. It builds in values and increases self-esteem.

Teach your children to think and govern themselves and you'll spend a lot less time doing it.

Never EVER count. (1,2,3...) Never EVER back down. Don't lose your cool either. (I'm not perfect on the last one, but on the first two, I bat 1000.) My daughter has no memory of me ever spanking her. I scared myself so badly once while spanking her that I'll never do it again. Instead, I send her to her room. It allows both of us to cool down and think about what to do. She often comes out and is ready for me to teach her and she behaves much better.

The other day my daughter wanted some toy from the toy store. I often deny her toys and things on principle. (she gets pretty much everything) Sure, I could buy it for her, but that's not the point. I figure she'd play with it for two minutes and never touch it again. In fact, I would probably be the one to play with it most. Instead, I explained to her that we were going on a trip and it would be better to have the money to buy things that she may want then. She pouted for a bit and then got over it. Why? She knows that once I say something, it's done with. If you cave into your children when they scream and cry, what have you just taught them to do?

I want my daughter to have the behavior where she can lead and take care of herself; independent. I do not want her to be a follower who relies upon others to take care of her; obedient. What are you teaching your children?

Great post Father of 1...

mp22, by all means, if you prefer me to totally butt out of this thread, just let me know...and I shall stay out.

Father of 1&#8230;, that&#8217;s exactly the same approach I have in raising my son!
And, yes, I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s the most difficult one; it takes a LOT of patience, energy and time! And I&#8217;m sure all of that will be paid off, once seeing them as healthy, stable, content, educated adults&#8230;
(where my prayers go to&#8230; <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I&#8217;d recommend &#8220;Children Are From Heaven"...
As any other book, it does not give an answer, but it&#8217;s &#8216;widening the views&#8217;&#8230;

<small>[ March 26, 2004, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by bp22:
<strong> I would like to know what the inappropriate music is however. Are you refering to Kidz Bop? Or are you refering to Alison Kraus? I don't consider either of the inappropriate...although much of the kidz bop with drive me nuts! LOL
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what? It doesn't matter which particular things caused the disagreement. It doesn't matter whether Mom & Dad have the same set of rules. There is only one set of rules you two have to agree on:

At Mom's house, Mom makes the rules.
At Dad's house, Dad makes the rules.
Kids have to respect the rules of the house they're in.

It's not hard for kids to adjust to. They already know that school has a different set of rules than home. Chances are, they have grandparents and/or friends with different sets of rules.

[It's not really relevant to the discussion, but my daughter figured out the grandparent thing by the time she was 3. MIL insisted, "My grandchildren are not going to be punished at gma's house."

She changed her mind the weekend of SIL's wedding, because D knew she could do anything she wanted as long as she stayed out of my reach - and with a 10-month-old baby in my arms, my reach wasn't very long.

D learned a whole new vocabulary that weekend, that took 6-8 weeks to break her of. And her behavior at gma's house improved dramatically once gma stopped interfering with parental discipline.

Come to think of it, maybe that story is more relevant than I thought.]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by smidgen:
<strong> At Mom's house, Mom makes the rules.
At Dad's house, Dad makes the rules.
Kids have to respect the rules of the house they're in.

It's not hard for kids to adjust to. They already know that school has a different set of rules than home. Chances are, they have grandparents and/or friends with different sets of rules.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree. Multiple sets of rules is confusing and provides a poor example of what is right.

That's why I think it's so important to teach independence with personal responsibility. You build in the rules to your child. That way, it doesn't matter at who's house they go to, especially to new houses. The child must be taught to do the right thing no matter the environment. Independence (with personal responsibility) rather than obedience (with no personal responsibility). Teach your children that they must answer to themselves. They must do what is right to be true to themselves. When they do the right thing, it should enhance their self-esteem. When they do the wrong thing, it should decrease their self-esteem. They will figure out that doing right things makes them feel good about themselves and doing wrong things makes them feel bad about themselves and things get a lot easier at that point.

Build in the governor. Build in confidence. Build in self-esteem. Build in leadership.

Build in personal responsiblity, the thing that is sorely lacking in many people today. Too many people play the blame game. Too many people claim to be "victims".

The rules simply belong within the child. That way, an "internal policeman" is established to properly govern the child's behavior. An "internal policeman" is otherwise known as a conscience and that is what you must focus on developing in your child. When done properly, your child will behave all by themselves. That's what you want anyway, right?

<small>[ March 26, 2004, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: father of 1, husband of 0 ]</small>

Actually, I don't think we disagree very much. In fact, I raised my children much the way you describe, and over time they adopted a set of personal rules very similar to the ones I wanted them to have. They're both adults now (24 & 27), so the results are (mostly) in.

But MP22 describes a child out of control. There has been so much conflict between the parents that the child has not developed that internal compass. She has learned to play one parent against the other.

The parents need to back each other up on discipline issues. If they can't agree on the particular rules, then each must agree to let the other be authoritative in his/her own home. And the child will NOT be confused as long as the rules at each house remain consistent.

mp22 --

Do you have an email address I could use to send you a letter? I have some comments I'd like to offer, but I don't think they are acceptable for a public forum.

cat-lover, my email address is cabobbin@yahoo.com. mary.

I feel frustrated for you mp22.

You listed specific behaviors, and asked for specific suggestions of what to DO when they occur. If I had posted this topic and my kids' father joined in the thread and listed what I was doing wrong (in his opinion) without giving one suggestion of something to try (preferably something he has tried that works), I would be angry. If my kids' father joined the thread and focused on his ideals of child-rearing without giving any information of what he DOES to move toward that ideal, I would be very frustrated.

I don't know anything about your marriage or divorce, but I don't think that matters because this is a thread about your children and not about you two as a couple.

It seems to me that the suggestion of "different houses, different rules" might be a good one to consider.

The only specific thing I can tell you from my experience is about staying up late--bedtime was bedtime, had nothing to do with if they stayed awake and read for a while, etc or went right to sleep. Bedtime at my house just meant it was time to go to their beds for the night--what they did after they were in bed was up to them as long as it wasn't disruptive to others.

The inappropriate touching would be something I would have to get professional input to deal with, especially since that can be (not definitely by any means but CAN be) an indication that your d's own personal boundaries have been crossed by someone in similar ways. I would definitely find a way to protect the other siblings from being subjected to this inappropriate touching--even if it meant that one child had to stay out of arm's reach of the siblings at all times.

I hope someone, professional or otherwise, can help you find the solutions. Just for the fact that you are asking for assistance and suggestions to try, I'm sure you will find something that works for you and your kids. When you do, will you post it for us? Different things work for different kids and your success might be just what someone else is looking for.

Take care

I'm interested in what you are referring to LovingBoundaries. If you can, please point out where I talked about my philosphies, etc.

Here's how I handle the actions that were mentioned:

1. When I hear the mention of inappropriate touching by my daughter, I stop her before she continues (talking about it). I'll say "I don't want to hear it". If there is any indication of her continuing, I prevent her from saying it, basically by interrupting her, and she is sent to her room. Priveldges are taken away. At my house, I rarely hear of or see my daughter trying to touch her sisters. When I do, she is clearly told that is not acceptable.

2. When the kids fight with each other, they all get in trouble. If it can be determined what happened, who started what, then that person is sent upstairs to their room. Otherwise the "special event" that is to happen is taken away.

3. Bed time in my house is BED TIME. Not time to go and read, etc. Lights are out. We do read sometimes together, all of us, before going to bed. I do not send the kids to bed when I know they will spend many minutes playing, talking, etc. (ie before they are ready to go to sleep).

4. We spend most of our time together as a complete family (3 girls and dad). We are all together in the same room, usually involved in the same activity, be it reading a book, playing checkers, or watching a movie/show. It is very rare that the kids watch tv without all of us doing it together. Disney shows, such as Lizzy McGuire and the various zoog movies, are the primary watched shows. We also listen to music together, not alone. Trying to learn piano together...but I need to learn more myself first.
Starting to memorize reading music.

5. I do not allow the kids to listen to music which I feel is inappropriate, which mp22 and I have discussed, and apparenlty she thinks I allow them to listen to radio (various pop artist I guess). I never listen to radio (save NPR news) and do not allow the kids to do so. Personally, I can't stand the music, nor do I approve of the lyrics, the music itslef, and most certainly not the videos (which are never wathced in my house, not MTV, VH1, nor CMT). My house is very open, it is very clear when music is on, and anything I don't approve of (and mp22 by her statements to me) is shut off.

6. The "problem child" has been under much better control, in my opinion, for me at my house. When she does act up, I do not yell and scream. I look at her, tell her "She's starting to do it again, now would be a good time for her to stop and walk away" I remain calm, I tell her I'm not going to yell, she has to decide. Usually she stops...although not always. When she doesn't, she goes upstairs to her bedroom.

In general, I don't have problems at my house with their behavior. Not sure if there's something fundamentally different about them at mom's or not.

In my experience, I would say that mp22 tends to get upset about "little things" that I don't get upset about. When the "problem child" speaks loudly, I say, "please turn it down...realize how loudly you are speaking" She will respond that she doesn't know how loud she is being, to which I just say, well, now you do. Pay more attention to yourself.

Per the previous postings of Father of 1, I have been telling the kids explicitly that I am not going to "yell at them" and "tell them what to do". Rather, I am going to allow them, and expect them, to take responsibility for themselves and their actions. I have told them that the day will come when they will have to make their own decisions, and I want them to learn what the right decisions are.

While they have their moments, I don't think they are anything out of the normal boundaries.

Having a slumber party with 10 girls here a few months ago, 7 others plus my three, it is very clear to me that my three are NOT on the extremes of behavior/control.

I do think the "problem child" enjoys pushing mom's buttons, especially once mom starts "ragging" on her.

I try and talk to her about NOT doing this to mom, and explicitly telling her when she walks away from problems at my house, that she has to do that with mom too.

Hi bp22,

I was trying to tell mp22 what frame of mind I was coming from before she read further. I think it's only fair to warn someone when the topic causes an emotional reaction so they can take that into consideration when deciding how much merit to give what is said next or when deciding whether to read further at all. The statement you are referring to was about my sitch--I should have looked over my post more carefully to edit out those kinds of things especially since I knew I had an emotional reaction to the topic. I hope mp22 realized that's what it was, and I'm sorry if I upset you.

It sounds like the way you are doing things is working at your house. Different houses run differently so many things work differently too. I'm glad that everyone always being together works for you if that's how you want to do it--good idea for you but it wouldn't work for me at all because I wouldn't be able to get anything else done, including laundry and taking a shower because I would be too tired after the kids were in bed (and then I'd lose friends who couldn't stand the smell LOL). That's just one example of something that works in one house but wouldn't work in another house. Your definition of bedtime would not have been nearly as good as mine for two of my kids, but it was the best way for another of my kids so that's how I did it with him.

If there was one right answer for all situations, wouldn't we all just buy the book and save ourselves the aggravation of trying to figure it out? LOL

I'm sure mp22 will figure out what works in her house, probably like we all do--by trial and error. I understand her urgency to figure out how to stop the hitting and kicking and the inappropriate touching--she has two kids who are being subjected to it.

Take care

You did not upset me. What I have seen happen, in my own marriage, is that people's advice here is often stated from one side, one side only, obviously without knowing the facts, and then that causes one person to feel "like the victim". I have learned once that position is taken, apparently, you never leave. I really wish more poster's would appreciate that fact.

I was going to edit my comment and add one thing...which you hit on perfectly.

I make the CHOICE that I WILL GET NOTHING DONE when I am with my kids. I do not work on the house, I do not try and work on work, I expect to DO NOTHING BUT BE WITH THE KIDS. Period.

So, yes, taking a shower usually means I have at least one kid just outside the curtain talking to me. That's fine! They no longer open the curtain...so I've made progress! Yes, doing dishes, laundry, etc. it is usually all done after they are in bed at night. Cleaning...I try to do that "as a family", LOL, but save for the eldest, it isn't very productive. So, after we all do it, i do it again. Or don't....LOL.

But you've brought out the KEY to PARENTING in my mind. TIME. TIME. TIME.

Kids REALLY want just one thing...they want the committed time from the parents. Sure, toys and all are nice, but I think THEY WANT TIME. Complete devoted attention to WHAT THEY WANT TO DO! Not what I want them to do...but what they want.

So, if it means a little dancing to music I can't stand, fine. If it means trying to play house and dolls a little, I try, although I'm not so good at it apparently. LOL

But I most certainly have given up ANY concept of accomplishing anything I want to do. Fix the truck, clean the house, work on the house, work outside the house...I don't have time for any one it, by choice.

So, I suggest to ALL PEOPLE whom are having problems with their kids...spend the time with them.

How many times can you watch the same Lizzy McGuire? Or repeat episodes of The Saddle Club? Don't put your kids in front of the TV alone and walk away...that's a HUGE mistake. But if you spend the time with them, even watching the boob tube, if you talk about it, then I think they make the connection to real life. Many times I talk to my kids about the "moral" of the stories...and I know they walk away understanding it exactly, and specific to their life.

Now, all we need, is some good shows about dealing with divorce. LOL (Are there any? Not really....that I can htink of)

It's the very best thing you can give to your kids....TIME.

My career is on hold, my house is on hold, my personal life is on hold...But it is a choice. Please don't hold the success of my choice against me...people at work already do. LOL

EDIT: And yes, this usually requires giving up sleep. We all have the same number of hours in a day, we all make choices how we spend our time.

MP22..To give you a couple of explicit ideas about what I think you could do to make a difference:

1. When they get home from school, surprise them...with a trip to the playground for example. Surprise them with something that THEY want to do.

2. On your weekends, DO MORE WITH THEM. Go to the playground, go to the mall, go and do things. They do tell me how you tend to stay home on your weekends off.

3. I'd advise not reacting with instant "anger" towards MAK's outburst. In a soft normal tone, look at her, and say something constructive...not yelling, not condeming...those things, from you, just push her onward. Give her a chance to think, to realize what she is doing, BEFORE you get loud and mad, I think you'll be AMAZED at how she will walk away. She might come right back, but she'll walk away again. It works....I see everyday.

Those are my explicit suggestions.

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: bp22 ]</small>

Sometimes I'm a little slow on the uptake so please bear with me--I don't get the connection of your suggesions. Are you saying that if your kids go to the playground after school then there will be no hitting, kicking, or inappropriate touching for that day? Are you saying that if they're kept entertained at the mall, etc on weekends that will prevent the hitting, kicking, and inappropriate touching on the weekends? I don't have a clue about how suggestion #3 relates.

If you wouldn't mind, will you connect the dots for me? I have a son who is very frustrated that I don't agree with him that if I provided the means for his constant entertainment it would prevent bad behavior.

Thanks

Well, here's how I connect the dots...


I spend time with my kids. I don't expect to get anything else done, I just focus on them.


What I have been told by my kids is that things are different at mom's house. I'm not saying mp22 is a bad mother or anything, I am saying that the kids tell me at mom's house:

1. They are pretty much on their own...
2. They seldom go anywhere or do anything that they really want to do.
3. I am suggesting that a loud, anger, yelling response is NOT the FIRST thing, everytime, something is perceived that you don't lilke. I know our middle child, for example, is loud. Her voice is just loud...she's that way. Even when she's not at all in a tizzy, she will be lough, be it laughing, talking, anything. I will look at her, and ask her, Do you know how loud you are being? In a very nice, not upset voice. Or I will ask her, We live in the woods, do you want to scare all the animals away? Turn it down a litle. To which she always says "I'm not being loud" and then we all say, yeah, you are...just be more aware of it. And then she'll be softer spoken. To just yell at her, it only seems to provoke and irritate.

So, that's what I am suggesting...I think kids WANT the time more than anything. There's adifference between spoiling them, and also investing the time with them so they grow, learn, and mature.

It seems to work for me well, last night I played 3 games of checkers and colored one barbie picture. LOL We also had a LONG talk about their behavior at mom's house...and I was trying to understand 1. Both the games that mom is playing and 2. Why their behavior there is different.

whoops....double

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: bp22 ]</small>