Hello! I'm High Flight. I've mostly been on the Recovery Board here on MB. But, my WW has elected to divorce me, so I'm coming on over here.

I would like to seek to form a group of you to be my accountability / support group for a period of time (maybe 1-3 months) as I endure the firestorm of the actual divorce. My state only takes 30 days from filing to final decree.

What I'm looking for is simply this. Experts say it takes telling your story several times to get it out of your system, to begin to process it, heal your broken heart, and move on to a better place.

So I'm looking for good listeners who can offer counsel too. My understanding is the mind is a bit like a computer. I've got all these damaged files that need sorting and re-addressing in order to move on & quit locking up. I've read that if you will just talk it out 2 or 3 times ref anything that's troubling you, your brain will begin to deal with it more healthfully and you can move on.

I'm looking to also be a support to those who might join of course. Tell me your story too, let's heal and move on together. Let's hold each other accountable to good mental health, to recovering from the ravages of divorce.

I firmly believe that it need not take nearly so long to get past a divorce trauma if we can begin to pro-actively address it. Move the grief process along more intentionally.

What do you say?

Who's in for this? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hi High Flight,
Welcome to the other side. Sorry you need to be here.

I am willing to share my story and experiences as I go down the same road as you.

I have no A in my story that I am aware of and in my state I could be doing this for upto 18 months but I'll be here.

My e-mail is also in my sig if you would like to stay in touch that way.

It is a hard time and and even if the experts didn't say it, we can all use friends and an ear now an then.

Best of luck to you
WIWH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by WishI WereHome:
<strong> Hi High Flight,
Welcome to the other side. Sorry you need to be here.

I am willing to share my story and experiences as I go down the same road as you.

I have no A in my story that I am aware of and in my state I could be doing this for upto 18 months but I'll be here.

My e-mail is also in my sig if you would like to stay in touch that way.

It is a hard time and and even if the experts didn't say it, we can all use friends and an ear now an then.

Best of luck to you
WIWH </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fantastic WIWH!! There's 2 of us now. For starters, here's my basic story in very condensed version:

* Married: 1994 Wonderful for 1st 5 yrs!
* Her A: 1999 with consultant at work
* She wouldn't break off from May till Sept.
* We went into intensive therapy. Lots came out of childhood wounds, etc. She was very codependent. I didn't even understand the concept till then.
* I had contributed by being "her parent" and too controlling, albeit a benevolent dominant spouse.
* After nearly 5 yrs of therapy and seeming recovery then regression, she moved out in legal separation 1/04.
* She says she cannot love me anymore the way a wife should love her husband.
* I read a couple of Dr. H books, but didn't know about MB till late in 2003.
* I have 2 boys from my first marriage that ended in 1993.
* They truly love and miss my WW. This is hard!!

I was recommended to read CRAZY TIMES: A Guide to Surviving Divorce. It has really helped me. I would strongly recommend this book.

My most difficult thing right now is just working through the psychological acceptance that my 2nd marriage has now failed. I never saw myself as being a divorced person growing up. I am a successful type of a person. I am on the winning side...usually. I have a very strong faith in God & follow Him daily. I made top grades in school. Promotions at work. Race and win in cars. Well respected in the community, etc. That makes this really hard on me.

But I'm here to learn my hard life lessons. I'm 45 yrs old.

That's enough for an intro. Good place to stop. What about you?

<small>[ March 29, 2004, 08:30 PM: Message edited by: High Flight ]</small>

Don't forget to add the Melodie Beatty books to your reading list. These are on Codependency, because you've contributed too.

Get a real support network too. Physical people. I have a great one. And we hold each other accountable for our emotional growth.

Typically, codependency is the result of abuse in your FOO (family of origin). Recall if any occured in your family, either alcohol, drug or physical or emotional abuse. Chances are, if so, you have issues you've never addressed.

Healthy people attract healthy people.
Damaged people attract damaged people.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by newly:
<strong> Don't forget to add the Melodie Beatty books to your reading list. These are on Codependency, because you've contributed too.

Get a real support network too. Physical people. I have a great one. And we hold each other accountable for our emotional growth.

Typically, codependency is the result of abuse in your FOO (family of origin). Recall if any occured in your family, either alcohol, drug or physical or emotional abuse. Chances are, if so, you have issues you've never addressed.

Healthy people attract healthy people.
Damaged people attract damaged people. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've read her books due to my wife's problems. They're OK, but I also agree with Dr. H that the "Codependency Movement is Ruining America's Marriages!!!" My WW was the codependent one. Not me. She did have serious abuse from the hands of her mother. Stuff I never knew of course before marrying her.

I wish I could have more of a physical group. But in my career as a professional pilot, I'm just not around home as much as I need to be to make that work. So the concept of a support group here.

High Flight,

Just because you're a pilot doesn't mean that you can't have a physical support group. Do you get to Newark often. I have no problem getting out to the airport now and then. I actually like going there. Me and the kids ride back and forth on the sky train <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I havn't had A in my relationship that I am aware of but I believe that part of my break up was due to W feeling that it could happen. I guess I am fortunate that she cared enough to not do anything while we were married.

Me>>>

* Married 13 years this summer
* 4 DD's 4,6,9,11 this summer
* Seperated August 03
* She says she cannot love me anymore the way a wife should love her husband.(I even copied and pasted that from your post. I heard it word for word. But I've also learned it to be a real thing from other MB'rs on the other side of the fence)
* MC Oct. 03
* Counselor dug into her past till she gave up
* W and I were high school sweat hearts. In fact I proposed on her graduation day.(me now 35 W 32)

There is a lot more but you should get the general idea.

Your post was a little confusing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Are the dates correct? when did first M end?

Anyway, I haven't done any reading on recovery yet, I guess I spent most of my time on repair. I really need to do the same as you. Start working toward my new future.

I'm not kidding, if you have any time to spend at NWK, I would be willing to come down. There is no reason to not have a physical support network.

There may even be others that would be willing to do the same, heck you have the potential to meet more of us than anyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WIWH ~ Duh!! Thanks for pointing out the date inconsistency. Check it now. 1993, not 2003. Hey what's 10 yrs eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Anyhow, yes I do get trips into the NYC area. Airports vary, sometimes LGA, TEB, JFK, etc. I'll keep your generous offer in mind. Sometimes it is months before I get back on the NYC trips so there's not real predictability.

Wow! Word for word huh? Tell me more about what you've learned ref this business of "I can't love you anymore the way a wife should love a husband". It seems so commonplace an excuse to terminate a marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Tell me more about what you've learned ref this business of "I can't love you anymore the way a wife should love a husband". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still don't understand it completely, but I have spoken to and read posts by men and women who just feel that way. Coming from people here makes it easier to believe. Knowing that so many people really do feel this way makes it seem like less of an excuse.

When I hear others explain the way they feel and it sounds just like my STBX talking, it makes it a little easier for me to respect her choice.

When she first came out with the " You deserve someone better" and stuff like that I felt like it was the old "It's not you it's me" line.

It still sucks but at least I feel that she was being honest with me.

My company has an office in Manhatten and I get there from time to time. Sometimes I'll be there for weeks on end. I use MTA to get in and out of the city from NJ but if you ever get a significant amount of time in the area, we can find somewhere to meet. At least have some fun in NYC.

WIWH

Just a question for pondering...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am a successful type of a person. I am on the winning side...usually. I have a very strong faith in God & follow Him daily. I made top grades in school. Promotions at work. Race and win in cars. Well respected in the community, etc. That makes this really hard on me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Being a pilot I would expect demands instant decisions and control at all times. Would it be possible that in your life, in your marriages, that you wanted the same thing?

Like WIWH, I'm in NJ and fly out of EWR.
We have an MB night out set for 5/22 in Philly.
No location picked yet. Keep this date in mind as you are setting your schedule. Perhaps you can join us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Elan:
<strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Being a pilot I would expect demands instant decisions and control at all times. Would it be possible that in your life, in your marriages, that you wanted the same thing? </strong>[/QUOTE]

You are perceptive Elan. Yes, control was an issue in my marriage. From what I've been taught, every marriage develops an unconsciously negotiated status of a dominant / submissive role. In my case, I was dominant, she was submissive.

Please understand I'm a BENEVOLANT domineer. No abuse -- physical or verbal whatsoever! It was more that I missed her "cries for help" as a codependent, clingy wounded child personality. I was busy being successful and providing direction for the family. I know, I know!! So very stereotypical.

But it appeared to work well for many years, and she seemed to thrive. Her own career jumped by leaps and bounds (she's a professional woman in textile industry) as well.

My understanding of the main problem: I missed her cries for help, didn't really meet her deepest needs (sense of belonging, feeling of being secure & safe, being an equal partner).

Not really sure I could've met the first two well since she needed professional help to overcome her past abuse. I could've done better to make her an equal partner using POJA, etc.

Even doing that would've possibly helped her in the first 2 needs.

According to our MC, she played her cards closer to her chest than anyone he'd dealt with in 20 yrs!!! So, that relieves me a tiny bit of the guilt. I'm not a mind reader!! She was a terrible communicator & guarded herself to the Nth degree.

So here I am. But I do realize this issue of control & how I need to re-evaluate that in my life.

Yes, as a Captain onboard the jet, I have to be in control, but that model doesn't work well in the personal life or spiritual life either! At least not in the same fashion. And even onboard the jet I'm a firm believer in CRM wherein we involve everyone in decision making. It's just that ultimately I have to call the shot.

Course even that works in a true Christian home IF the wife is submitted (in the true Biblical sense, not the perverted man-selfish sense) to her husband AND the Lord first!! I'm pretty sure my WW wasn't submitted to the Lord first now. And obviously she wasn't to me either.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> According to our MC, she played her cards closer to her chest than anyone he'd dealt with in 20 yrs!!! So, that relieves me a tiny bit of the guilt. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure about you but for me,only a tiny bit. My STBX kept everything to herself. She says she figured she would get over her issues and didn't want to cause trouble if she didn't have to.

I still should have known how bad things were for her. I was supposed to be the closest person in her life.

So how about this group exercise. Let' state as concisely as possible just what we think went wrong with our marriages. Just the key issues. Key events. Key needs not met, etc.

I've done that above for me & found it very useful to boil things on down. Who's next?

Would like to join because I need to make some decisions and need all the support I can get. I also have learned alot and if it can help someone else than any pain I endured is worth it.

My signature gives a summary----Was married for 33 yrs when I discovered the OW. It was the most painful thing I have ever felt but that painfulness was really a similar, magnified version of our whole married life. My WS was unable to commit so spent most of our M doing his own thing. He has a drinking problem and I have realized, now that I am away from it, that it is one of the hardest things in the world to live with an alcohol abuser. He was always sneaking around doing something that he would wind up getting yelled at for. On the other hand, we had months when he would not drink and we actually had wonderful togetherness, compatibility and a sense of family.

I tend to take on the feelings of others and I realized recently that I loved my H more than I loved myself. I learned in the midst of the A we had a mother/child kind of thing going on. Unfortunately, I am far too familiar with codependency (the unhealthy kind).

WS and I are still friends and have regular contact just like a cousin or a relative of some sort. I do kind of feel still connected to him or that he is still my husband but I think that is the codependent part of my issues that I need to deal with.

Besides all that, I have made remarkable progress with God's help and feel that I have healed totally from the infidelity. I am in a good place emotionally and have never felt so serene and peaceful but I do struggle with being alone.

I have two wonderful, grown sons who are the greatest joys of my life.

My decision is that in order to take my next step, I will need to file for divorce. My WS will never make a decision so the decision is all mine. I plan on bringing up the subject this weekend with him so I can't wait to see what he is feeling.

TW

<small>[ April 01, 2004, 09:49 PM: Message edited by: tossedwave ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tossedwave:
<strong> Would like to join because I need to make some decisions and need all the support I can get. I also have learned alot and if it can help someone else than any pain I endured is worth it.

My signature gives a summary----Was married for 33 yrs when I discovered the OW. It was the most painful thing I have ever felt but that painfulness was really a similar, magnified version of our whole married life. My WS was unable to commit so spent most of our M doing his own thing. He has a drinking problem and I have realized, now that I am away from it, that it is one of the hardest things in the world to live with an alcohol abuser. He was always sneaking around doing something that he would wind up getting yelled at for. On the other hand, we had months when he would not drink and we actually had wonderful togetherness, compatibility and a sense of family.

I tend to take on the feelings of others and I realized recently that I loved my H more than I loved myself. I learned in the midst of the A we had a mother/child kind of thing going on. Unfortunately, I am far too familiar with codependency (the unhealthy kind).

WS and I are still friends and have regular contact just like a cousin or a relative of some sort. I do kind of feel still connected to him or that he is still my husband but I think that is the codependent part of my issues that I need to deal with.

Besides all that, I have made remarkable progress with God's help and feel that I have healed totally from the infidelity. I am in a good place emotionally and have never felt so serene and peaceful but I do struggle with being alone.

I have two wonderful, grown sons who are the greatest joys of my life.

My decision is that in order to take my next step, I will need to file for divorce. My WS will never make a decision so the decision is all mine. I plan on bringing up the subject this weekend with him so I can't wait to see what he is feeling.

TW </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Welcome TossedWave! (I like your handle) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Indeed, it seems you've come to a much better, healthier place.

Codependency stinks -- BIG TIME!

I think that your divorcing is an important final step to getting to completeness. You certainly have the Biblical grounds & have given it years of trying from the way it sounds.

God be near you,
High Flight

TossedWave ~ I felt your pain while reading your story. Welcome! Let's bear these burdens together.

I sense it is important for you to get closure, and that's what a divorce decree will bring for you. Clearly, God hates divorce, but even He divorced Israel ultimately due to their infidelity.

There is something important about the ultimate consequences that is sometimes lost to some folks.

May God lead you as you seek closure and completed healing. Clearly you have the Biblical authority to do this as a BS.

Let us know how it is going.

Anyone else updates???

************** My WW has bought a house! I got in from a trip and found out. She's still waffling on signing the divorce papers. But she wants her money NOW!! Needs it for her new house.

My thought is that I need the divorce first. What do you say?

High Flight

For the last couple of weeks, I have been struggling more and more. Because I have been trying to make a decision to divorce, alot of feelings are surfacing. They are painful. I feel like I have regressed and taken 10 steps backwards.

I spoke with WS on Tues about whether we should divorce. He is in the SAME place he was 3 years ago. He misses me, cares about me, still kind of seeing OW and doubts that he could ever change. The sick part is that I cannot make the break. I cannot seem to "cut the strings". I still feel attached to him....in what way, I don't know.

I question my motives for divorcing, too....I am lonely and would like to have a chance at another marriage. I think I should be divorcing for the sole reason that the M is hopelessly over and that I am through with it all. I am assured that God is on my side and I almost feel like God is telling me it is over so why hang on.


High Flight, are you and your W legally separated? Our separation agreement took care of all the financial connections we had and we are totally independent of each other financially. I think at this point, you would need to let go of whatever your W needs to do or wishes to do. My only concern would be that you get treated fairly. My H has made some major financial decisions since our separation and I am glad to say I have been able to let go of HIS decisions cause HIS decisions are no longer able to effect me. I feel protected by the legal separation. Is her buying the house hurting you financially? or is it her taking this step farther away from you?

TW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tossedwave:
<strong> For the last couple of weeks, I have been struggling more and more. Because I have been trying to make a decision to divorce, alot of feelings are surfacing. They are painful. I feel like I have regressed and taken 10 steps backwards.

I spoke with WS on Tues about whether we should divorce. He is in the SAME place he was 3 years ago. He misses me, cares about me, still kind of seeing OW and doubts that he could ever change. The sick part is that I cannot make the break. I cannot seem to "cut the strings". I still feel attached to him....in what way, I don't know.

I question my motives for divorcing, too....I am lonely and would like to have a chance at another marriage. I think I should be divorcing for the sole reason that the M is hopelessly over and that I am through with it all. I am assured that God is on my side and I almost feel like God is telling me it is over so why hang on.


High Flight, are you and your W legally separated? Our separation agreement took care of all the financial connections we had and we are totally independent of each other financially. I think at this point, you would need to let go of whatever your W needs to do or wishes to do. My only concern would be that you get treated fairly. My H has made some major financial decisions since our separation and I am glad to say I have been able to let go of HIS decisions cause HIS decisions are no longer able to effect me. I feel protected by the legal separation. Is her buying the house hurting you financially? or is it her taking this step farther away from you?

TW </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TW ~ Yes, we are legally separated. All assets are divided except I haven't paid her for her share of the equity in the house. That is stipulated to be done upon the divorce.

Her buying a house doesn't effect me materially in any way. Only that it shows her complete lack of desire to reconcile.

What's bizzare is that she's begun to call me very frequently, talk sweetly and "check on how I am". I returned from a very late flight tonight & she'd left a message to call her no matter how late so she'd know I was safe. It was nearly midnight. I called. She was waiting up to hear I was OK.


?????????????????? I don't get it.....

Meanwhile, everything moves on. Maybe it's just her trying to cope with her guilt? Maybe it's more sinister - like she's trying to soften me up for something else coming down the road???

I don't really know her any more.

High Flight

High Flight, I don't really know her any more. Not sure it is possible to know another person if they are not able to express what they want you to know. I lose much sleep trying to figure others out. I can hardly figure myself out most of the time. That is why I rely on God so much. He lets me see what is needed at what time I need to see it; otherwise, it is not for me to know.

I am sure your WW is having a difficult time separating herself from you completely so she continues to reach out and show concern. Marriages that are malfunctioning are so confusing emotionally and it takes so long to make a clean break (if that is at all possible). Is she still involved with OM? My H waffled back and forth for about 2 years until I made it clear that I would not allow it any longer. It just kept the wound open and oozing. Stepping away from him emotionally was the hardest thing I ever did but it was the most healing. I am fine with our "friendship" as long as there is no emotional interaction. I believe that is called detachment which I never thought I could do. I think that is why I have been struggling lately. Contemplating divorce makes me feel all the old feelings of connectedness. I seem to have come out of my struggle for now. Not really sure what I will do about divorce. If it is meant to be, God will eventually give me the strength I need to proceed. Some decisions in life are a process for me.

All assets are divided except I haven't paid her for her share of the equity in the house. That is stipulated to be done upon the divorce. I would stick to what is legally written down. She is making a very big step with the purchase of this new house so she should be able to decide if you are to continue to be her H or not.

I just saw the Passion of the Christ again and it not only is the saddest thing I ever saw but it is a masterful piece of art. It touches me so deeply and I feel so loved by God after seeing it. Have you seen it?
Hope you have a Happy Easter.

TW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tossedwave:
<strong> High Flight, I don't really know her any more. Not sure it is possible to know another person if they are not able to express what they want you to know. I lose much sleep trying to figure others out. I can hardly figure myself out most of the time. That is why I rely on God so much. He lets me see what is needed at what time I need to see it; otherwise, it is not for me to know.

I am sure your WW is having a difficult time separating herself from you completely so she continues to reach out and show concern. Marriages that are malfunctioning are so confusing emotionally and it takes so long to make a clean break (if that is at all possible). Is she still involved with OM? My H waffled back and forth for about 2 years until I made it clear that I would not allow it any longer. It just kept the wound open and oozing. Stepping away from him emotionally was the hardest thing I ever did but it was the most healing. I am fine with our "friendship" as long as there is no emotional interaction. I believe that is called detachment which I never thought I could do. I think that is why I have been struggling lately. Contemplating divorce makes me feel all the old feelings of connectedness. I seem to have come out of my struggle for now. Not really sure what I will do about divorce. If it is meant to be, God will eventually give me the strength I need to proceed. Some decisions in life are a process for me.

All assets are divided except I haven't paid her for her share of the equity in the house. That is stipulated to be done upon the divorce. I would stick to what is legally written down. She is making a very big step with the purchase of this new house so she should be able to decide if you are to continue to be her H or not.

I just saw the Passion of the Christ again and it not only is the saddest thing I ever saw but it is a masterful piece of art. It touches me so deeply and I feel so loved by God after seeing it. Have you seen it?
Hope you have a Happy Easter.

TW </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks TW. Some sound advice here. Getting an emotional divorce is certainly difficult!

I hope you had a blessed Easter too! I certainly did. What Jesus did for us will be our study for all eternity! It is THAT DEEP/PROFOUND!!!!

High Flight