Anna, has your boyfriend saved up the $$$ for his divorce yet? Lets see.....buy a water pump for the car.....OR...a Divorce...hmmmm.

ouch, baba, that hurt. He has already paid the lawyer and filed for divorce. (I refused to be engaged until he did, even if he hadn't seen her in 4 years.) We had hoped she would sign the papers and send them back so it would be done immediately; so we could set a wedding date. Since she is being difficult, we had to have the papers served by the sheriff and will have a 90 day waiting period when it will be final no matter what she does. I really do believe his story as I"ve talked to his 21 yr old daughter who stays in touch with the stbx wife, and she says the same thing.....the stbx is annoyed at his procrastination and didn't want to spend any money filing herself, so she's "yanking his chain".

Oh, and shortly after that I sent him to my banker where he got a loan for a jeep. He sold the problem car to a mechanic to use for figure 8 racing.

YAAAAY for you! I am glad!

Can you tell though that I was bummed? Do you know why? Because I spend lots of time on your other thread talking about not having sex before marriage and all the great pastoral counseling thru the church, etc....we were all trying to help you.

Then, we find out your fiance is legally still married!

Therefore it seems like the marital counseling with the strict pastor (who does not even believe in premarital sex) is a sham.

It makes your other thread seem, well, wierd! I wonder if you two are being false to the pastor. What is the point of going to church or counseling with the pastor while you commit adultery.

You are now the OW. Since he is a married man! I am sorry but this is why I am kind of bummed here.

If I had never gotten involved to help I would not be feeling hurt here. Or scammed. But it is not my life. It is yours. And you got rid of your abusive ex husband finally and deserve some pleasure.

Had I known that this guy you are seeing is still married, I would not have wasted my time responding to your other thread since my response does not make sense now and does not help you because it was not based on the whole truth of the situation you are in.

In fact, if you look back, very few responses you got on that thread about premarital sex, are valid now. Since he is married.

We really needed to know the whole truth so we could truly try and help! You kinda led us on! But what I am concerned with most is you possibly doing what I have done in the past. And that is lying to yourself about your man. It matters not very much if you omit things on a message board as long as you are not lying to yourself about him since you are the one who has to live with him forever after you get married.

And I can see that I have a problem also in that I am putting too much of my heart in a message board trying to help others when I need to just live my own life.

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

Anna,

I know that you are very lonely & this man is really nice. I care about you & I know that you suffered abuse in your first marriage.

However, you cannot have sex with or date a married man. A person is either married or single!! He is married, so hands off!!

I know this is an unusual situation & I do understand, but you cannot do this anymore. I thing you should tell him that as soon as his divorce is final, you will be happy to see him again, but as long as he is married, you cannot see him.

And if you are wondering, I am in a similar situation. I have separated from my abusive wife, and have had several single women show an interest, but I am still married. I have some female friends with whom I have had to completely break all contact with because there is an attraction. So I am in the position of having to stay in a small apartment rather than go out & be with other people just to avoid the chance of doing something inappropriate.

Anna, I know this is harsh & not what you want to do, but it for the best & I am telling you because I do care about you.

will have a 90 day waiting period when it will be final no matter what she does.
Unless she contests the divorce for some reason.

ANd you did write, "the stbx is annoyed at his procrastination and didn't want to spend any money filing herself, so she's "yanking his chain"."

So she will yank his chain and delay it. Don't hol doyu r breath waiting fo rit to be over.Even if they have not seen each other in xx months, the actual divorce will really stir the pot of emotions of everyone.

Baba, I am truly sorry I've disappointed you. It wasn't my intention to decieve or scam anyone, I'm just working throught these things in my life and using this forum as a sounding board. I really appreciate everyone's input.

I talked to my bf last night and told him how I felt and how it upsets me so much that he didn't tell me right away that he was still legally married and hadn't even filed yet when we started dating. He told me how it took almost two years after she left him to track her down to Nebraska, and then to Texas. During that time he had to repay bank overdrafts and credit cards, so all his paychecks were going to child support (previous marriage) and debts. He was also devestated by her leaving him. Finally she contacted him and wanted him to use her lawyer for a divorce, as she wanted to get remarried. This was a year ago. He said he wanted to use his own lawyer, so she refused to sign any papers and he dropped it as he couldn't afford the expenses at the time. It was not until this spring that he could finally afford to pursue the divorce on his own, and he filed as soon as he could. As he was telling me this, he began crying and asked what he was to do? He knows he has made mistakes in this and should have gotten the divorce sooner, he doesn't want to hurt me, but he cannot do anything other than he is. He has been keeping our relationship platonic, but it seems silly to not see each other at all when his stbx is thousands of miles away and has no care for him, and he moved 75 miles to my town to be closer to us and has just begun making friends here.

It would seem to me that to be an "other woman", there would have to be a woman he was involved with in the first place. She was long gone years before I met him and I"ve not interfered with their marriage or relationship at all. I"m not trying to rationalize or justify my actions, but I find it difficult to see that he is cheating on a woman he hasn't seen in 4 years, who left him, and has lived with several other men in that time. However, we have put counseling and marriage plans on hold until the divorce is final.

How many times has he been married?

Twice......14 years to his high school sweetheart, 2 children; they divorced over financial disagreements and she has remarried. Then he had a rebound relationship and married within a year, it lasted 4 difficult years, no children, she left him for another man 4 years ago.

And he started dating and talking marriage with you while still married to wife #2.

If this were 'Lost In Space', the line we would all hear right now would be, "Danger, Will Robinson. Danger."

he hadn't seen or heard from her in 3 years when we started dating. Sure, he should have been more agressive about getting the divorce, but it's hard to track down someone you haven't seen in years.

Just like it's hard to get child support even if you know where the man lives....

I realize everyone here is very sensitive about infidelity. But, if YOUR spouse took off and left you and you didn't know where he/she was for years, would you really not move on with your life eventually anyway? Would you really stay single and celibate for 3 or 4 years hoping you'd discover where they were and be able to get the divorce?

It's a tough situation if you look at it from his side.

Can you say "conflict avoider"?
If he wanted to be divorced and move on with his life, he would have completed this step by now.
No excuses. Hold people accountable for their actions.

My husband was abusive, DID leave me (and our daughters) over two years ago, did not give us an address or home phone # (I DID have to track down that info myself), committed adultery with an OW, stalled on filing for divorce, then agreed to delay divorce for another year (false recovery - evidently he just intended to cake-eat)... And YES I HAVE remained celibate (except the few times I had sex with my husband during Plan A & false recovery). I have not and will not date until the divorce is final. Believe me, I have plenty excuse to, but it would still be wrong.

NO MATTER WHAT the situation, if you are involved (emotionally or physically) with a MARRIED MAN, you ARE the OW.

And WHY would you even be interested in a man who pretends to be so helpless, such a victim of his supposedly mean wife? He's already had two failed marriages. Why assume he'd be willing or able to put the sort of effort in that would be necessary to make his third marriage work?

IF he ever marries you, the odds are it will be an even briefer marriage than his second marriage. And of course, as is his pattern, he will blame his third divorce on his wife (you).

BTW, I agree his wife's revenge (delaying divorce now because HE delayed it when she wanted to divorce) is perhaps immature, but it STILL was in response to HIS irresponsibility and procrastinating. Also, just because she left him, that doesn't prove much. WHY did she leave him? What responsibility was HE taking to try to meet her most important emotional needs? What problems were there in the marriage and what was HE doing to try to solve them? I'm certainly not excusing his wife's adultery, but has he admitted any responsibility for the problems in his marriage(s)? Or does he just blame his wife for everything?

IMO, they took turns trying to delay the divorce because they MOST LIKELY still have some unresolved feelings for each other. The opposite of love is indifference, not hate. They apparently still have a lot of emotional energy or else NEITHER one of them would care less about the other one having an OP and wanting to either delay or hurry the divorce. And don't assure yourself that simply because he is the one saying he wants the divorce now, and she is the one (currently) delaying, that proves much of anything. She was comfortable demanding divorce when he was delaying divorce, and vice versa. It's their issue and the OP they are involved with would be wise to stay away until/if they truly are finished with each other (revenge and all).

There really is only ONE way to not be the OP:
Do NOT get involved with a married person - PERIOD.

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

I care about you Anna, and seeing you happy makes me happy. But a friend has to worry about continued happiness with that many red flags waving. Take care of you first. I know well how wonderful being treated well after an abusive marriage feels. Is this your first serious relationship since the divorce?

People who are 'rough' with you here, do it because they care. If they didn't, they wouldn't bother to reply. (((anna)))

Sure, he should have been more agressive about getting the divorce, but it's hard to track down someone you haven't seen in years.
You don't have to track anyone down to get a divorce. You simply (try) and have them served at the last known address. If they are not there (as in they have moved with no forwarding address) then the divorce goes forward.

You know, just a thought (and I'm not advocating or discouraging).

I hear people say all the time that they will not date until the divorce is final. I always question this. For one, are they choosing to do so because they believe that biblically one should not date until the divorce if final? If so, this is not biblical. Divorce was done by merely giving your spouse a letter. In a day it was over. Now, in our democracy there is a process. Some states takes longer than others. So it really does not seem to be logical that one must wait until the divorce is final to date because then, and only then, it is right. God said that the moment you look at someone lustfully you have committed adultery. In your heart you can be divorced and depending on the era in which you lived and even the country or state in which you live that "time frame" would differ. Is God waiting on Judge Blake to pronounce you divorced before He, the ultimate judge pronounces you divorced? What's His process? Is it the same as ours?

Secondly, what is dating? Is dating speaking with someone whom you admire and admires you knowing in your mind that your marriage is over? Is it sleeping with someone else? Depending on your definition, is dating really wrong before or after the divorce? If your definition of dating involves sleeping together, then yes, it's wrong. Period. If your definition of dating is spending time with someone, getting to know someone better, enjoying someone's company and admiring them for their uniqueness, then I would suggest that many going through a divorce would be better off dating even now.

The "I'm not dating until the divorce is final" leads me to believe that the person is holding out in hopes that their spouse will change their minds and come back home. It leads me to believe that the person has not fully accepted the fact that their spouse has mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually divorced them already. The decree that the courts give making it official forces the person to accept it. Without it, the person would spend the rest of their lives perhaps, holding on to the notion that they are still married. Sad.

For dating, I think it is personal and would differ among people. Their is a time and a place, but it begins within that person. In the heart of the person. In the soul. Dating does not mean you will instantly fall in love with a person. In fact, it may very well be impossible if you are still holding on. But it most definitely makes letting go much easier.

I just read this thread - and I think that everyone has alot of opinions.. But Anna I just wanted to tell you that I hope that everything works out and that you do find true happiness... I am not sure how I feel about the OW - nametag that has been thrown on you ... And sometimes I don't understand how everyone can say what is right for one person is right for the other... But I am thinking that as long as you had nothing to do with their relationship - and he was pretty much divorced in every respect - except for the paperwork - then I don't really think you did anything wrong that affected their marriage.... So hopefully everything will work out....

For one, are they choosing to do so because they believe that biblically one should not date until the divorce if final? If so, this is not biblical. Divorce was done by merely giving your spouse a letter.
The divorce was final when the letter was given. What is the difference between then & now?

You can't give someone a letter now and you are divorced.

The "I'm not dating until the divorce is final" leads me to believe that the person is holding out in hopes that their spouse will change their minds and come back home
Dating while still married is dating while still married. Marriage is based on a set of values. Why toss them out the window?

Many times the ws feels they have mentally, physically, emotionally, and spiritually divorced already.
According to your description, why is it wrong for them to date before papers are final (or even filed)? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by deadtoitall:
<strong> Is God waiting on Judge Blake to pronounce you divorced before He, the ultimate judge pronounces you divorced? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like-a you.

In the same way I feel 'married' to my Westley even though I have no paper from the state to prove it. I commited myself to him before God. Lots of people will call it wrong, what I have with him, but I am not afraid of God. He knows my heart.

No, you are right. Marriage does consist of a set values. And we can list all of these values that marriage consists of, but we don't need to do that. We both know that marriage consists of commitment, respect and the like. But if one person removes themself from the marriage, they choose to no longer acknowledge these values, much less abide by them, they have divorced themselves from their spouse. Whether they give them a letter and declare themselves divorce or whether they pay their money and wait for Judge Wapner to declare themselves so. They can even fly to Haiti and get it done in less than a month.

Go back and read the definitions above. I think you totally missed them, Christopher.

I can understand dating before divorced (not accept it)

I can understand sex before the person is divorced (I cannot accept this either)

I do not understand having sex with this married man and then, a couple days later you go to "premarital counseling session" with your pastor, who tells you not to have premarital sex (only he does not know that your fiance~ is currently married) and if he had known he would have told you not to date this man at all much less have sex with him!

What good can counseling do when you have not told the counselor the whole truth?

(Anna, just at least be truthful "to yourself" so you don't get stuck with another loser by accident).

But what I really cannot accept is that he gave the EXCUSE of having to get a new water pump and did not have the money for a divorce! Wow, that one blows my mind.

Now he is trying to blame the wife and get Anna to agree that it is HER fault he is not divorced.

I worry about his character. And all his baggage.

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>