lefty,
Anything that happens is your own doing lefty.
You know what you have to do.
You choose to keep obsessing over it.
You choose to keep waking up at 4 AM to see if he is where you KNOW he is.

We have tried to help you for over a year.
You take absolutely no notice of what we suggest.
You do not even acknowledge our recommendations to you.
On & on you simply continue to post, "Oh, poor, poor pitiful me. My life is terrible but I CHOOSE to do NOTHING to make it better."
Everything your husband is doing is expected lefty. You have given him no reason to change anything.

My daughter says if I run away from this I will be ending up with no one in the end
No on here is suggesting you "run away" from all of this. We are sugggesting you pull back and see that your actions are doing NOTHING except driving you crazy.

Is there any particular reason you do not want to try & save your marriage?

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Oh, yeah. One more thing.
I suggest you call Marriage Builders and get an appointment if you are intereseted in doing ANYTHING to save your marriage (or just to help you get through this.

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Lefty, don’t count on anything changing just because he tells his family. Don’t count on anything happening if you create another big scene. You keep acting as if you can force him to chose.

Unfortunately, he’s made his choice.

If you’d like him to reconsider, you must change the parameters.

If you want your marriage to fail… If you get off on playing the martyr…. If you like the freedom insanity can bring…, continue doing what you’re doing.

You may be thinking that if he only knew how much he was hurting you destroying you, he’d change. You’d be wrong. He doesn’t care how much he’s hurting you. He won’t feel a huge amount of regret if you let this stress ruin your life. He’ll just think that you were unstable.

Don’t give him the satisfaction.

If death is looking attractive to you, you need to tell your IC outright, and tell him exactly how far down that road you’ve gone.

You seem to be getting more and more desperate and frantic, and you appear concerned over your own sanity. Lefty, I don’t think you’re crazy. But you may be at a breaking point. If you are, you need to consider all your alternatives, short-term and long-term and not just marital.

Well, I did go to another counselor for a different opinion and I didn't like what I heard. He said I am not in realty and I should just go to the courthouse for 75.00 I can get papers and if we agree on everything, file for divorce......... He said what I have now and what I am living is not a marriage anyway. He also said for me to go to a phychiatrist and get meds for me to cope better with the situation at hand and think more clearly. He did say he feels the other counselor is wrong by telling my husband that he will try and tell me to stay away from him for now and give him space until he makes a decision. He said if he have been back and forth so many times he has chosen what he wants. My daughter spoke to him a little yesterday while they had to wait for the rain to stop before they could work and she asked him if he missed me. He said he thinks about me everyday. He also said he doesn't know how he got himself in this predicament and he is not sure how to get out of it. She said he just has to stop talking to her and go home. She also told him she can understand how the FIRST time he did this he said he was human, but to keep doing this over and over he can't use that excuse that he is human..... So I feel at least a little talking is coming out into the open. But will it help.... Now I have 2 different opinions, get rid of him and go on, and wait it out and see if he comes back on his own....What a mess. I'm trying to help myself and get more confused with different opinions. He still is going over there in the evenings and she is bringing him home at 5 am each day......That alone is wierd.

EARTH TO LEFTY, EARTH TO LEFTY!
COME IN LEFTY!

WHY DON'T YOU RESPOND TO US?
If you deal with your husband the same way you deal with us, nothing will ever get better.

So I feel at least a little talking is coming out into the open. But will it help.
Why do you think it will help lefty? What have you changed in yourself?

I'm trying to help myself and get more confused with different opinions.
You get confused because you never make a decision AND then do it.

He still is going over there in the evenings and she is bringing him home at 5 am each day......That alone is wierd.
No, that is not weird in any way. It is an affair.
What is weird is that you wake up everyday at 4 AM to go see if it still happening when you KNOW it will.
Have you read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr Willard Harley?

I HIGHLY suggest you call (see below) and make an appointment with a qualified counselor who deals with infidelity such as this.

Lefty, You have managed to rope in one person who is incredibly well versed in the MB approach to saving marriages, and me. It’s interesting while Chris and I will differ occasionally on theory, we are both in total agreement when it comes to your situation.

This really isn’t about your husband or his affair any more. It’s about YOU.

The counselor is right. You aren’t living in reality. It’s like you keep hoping something will happen and it the whole thing will disappear and life will go on as before.

That ain’t gonna happen, babe.

And quite honestly, at this point, I wouldn’t recommend your husband return home. I believe he should end the affair, but both of you need to do a lot of change.

You now have three different opinions. People here believe you should make him leave your mother’s house and have no contact with him until he can prove the affair’s over; one counselor believes you should give him space and hope for the best; another counselor recommends you high-tail it to the courthouse and file for divorce.

If you keep asking different people, you’ll get different answers on what to do about your marriage. However, the responsibility is yours. No one can take it from you. You must decide and take the consequences.

While I suggested you may want to find another counselor, it wasn’t to get a second opinion about your marriage. It was to see if a different person with a different approach would reach YOU better. The first one seemed to allow you to use him the way you use us. Vent, get advice, ignore advice, come and complain about the same things all over again.

Finally, Lefty, your husband saying he doesn’t understand how he ended up in this situation is not a sign of change. This sentiment is common among WSs. Only those who really have no conscious at all feel no remorse. It does not mean he feels enough remorse to come home or to end the affair. And you aren’t creating a situation in which he’d feel regret as well as remorse.

If you want him to regret his decision, go be the kind of woman he fell in love with. Don’t be obsessive, clingy, controlling, manipulative and dependent.

Right now, you choose over and over to remain in the same situation. It’s your fault you’re still in the same place as 4 months ago, not anyone elses.

Chris, if I’ve missed something, add it.

Lefty,

Why do you want everyone else to be involved with this? You want your daughter to be mad at him..your mom , his brother, etc.

The marriage was between you and him. Not your child. Leave your daughter out of it!!!! It isn't her place to be in the middle of the two of you. It isn't her job to convince him to come back to you.

Do you live with your mother also? I'm sorry I didn't catch that part. I think you all live there together right? If so, definitely he needs to leave.

Tell your mother that you aren't comfortable living there while he is having an affair so he needs to leave, or why don't you go rent your own place away from them?

Why don't you have any self-respect? Pick your self up by your bootstraps and march on! Without him.

Not to be rude but you sound like a not so fun mess that I would NOT want to come home to.!!

Obviously there are many people here pulling for you.. you just need to take action and stop obsessing.( Easier said than done) ..but you can do it!

Still here - Keeping away from him. Getting better at it, but I'm keeping myself pretty busy lately, and then when I sit down, I'm too tired to think , well, that's not true, I still think of him, but I'm in a tired mode which is better for me, not as stressful.......

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Why do you just ignore us? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I have preached this one over and over and until I GOT THIS MYSELF, did it do any good.

Einstein once said "The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect the outcome to be different."

IF YOU WANT TO CREATE A JOURNAL ONLINE, THERE ARE VENUES FOR THAT. THIS IS NOT A JOURNAL PLACE. IT'S A HELP YOUR HURTING NEIGHBOR PLACE. Sure we will read sometimes, but we want you to take some action and help you help yourself.

1)you need meds
2)your actions are outta control
3)you have thoughts that need professional help to deal with...I consider you mildly suicidal perhaps.
4)YOU'VE GOTTEN AWESOME ADVICE FROM FRIENDS HERE SO FAR...GG AND CHRIS ARE GOOD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


I want to hear you answer this question I pose to you?

WHY DO YOU NOT WANT TO CHANGE COURSE NOW? Why?

"Why do I not want to change course now." That is your question. I'm getting there, but the insanity of expecting something to change is keeping me from moving on. But it's into the 3rd month now that he is still going over her house for the night and returning the next morning so nothing seems to be changing. I have to get him out of my moms house. I am giving it till the end of the month and if he is not going to make an effort to make this marriage work, I am getting him out of the house, telling him what monies I need to support me and I'm going on. It's draining me now and I have to wise up or he will bury me. And you definition of insanity means I'm definitely insane at this point because I am doing the same thing and expecting the outcome one day to be different. I really don't want meds at this point. My Dr. last yr. told me to " solve the problem, " when I asked him for something to calm me down when I first discovered all this. I am getting better with keeping myself busy but today he came to do the grass here and I really get out of sorts just knowing he is out there. I do not go out to see him. But I get very edgey and nasty when he is around. I turn into a monster with everyone. I hate that. I just cannot see him or even look at him it bothers me that much. But I know I can't go on like this..I really wish I could move away. I would be gone. But running shouldn't be the option, but it would make this so much easier to endure. I'm tired at this point and your right, I'm not getting anywhere.

he is still going over her house for the night and returning the next morning so nothing seems to be changing
And why SHOULD anything change? You are not doing ANYTHING which would require you or him to change.

if he is not going to make an effort to make this marriage work
That's not really fair, is it?
If YOU ar enot going to do anything to make an effort to change your marriage, why should he?

But I get very edgey and nasty when he is around. I turn into a monster with everyone.
Then don't do it.

But running shouldn't be the option, but it would make this so much easier to endure.
How? You would simply "endure" it without him around. But you would STILL be putting yourself through all the same crap you do now.

I'm tired at this point and your right, I'm not getting anywhere.
For the simple fact that you are not doing anything to get anywhere... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Find a different doctor, Lefty. Sometimes the biochemistry of stress requires that we find a biochemical answer instead of just thinking this is something we can "think" our way out of.

You want him to come back, Left? Give him a reason to.

Is acting like a monster likely to make you look attractive? No it is not.

Is obsessing likely to make you look attractive? No it is not.

If you want to be the victim, fine. Keep doing what you're doing, and let him bury you. After a decent interval (hopefully), he'll marry OW.

If he feels any remorse, you won't be around to see it or benefit from it. However, given how you refuse to change, I doubt he'll feel guilty.

He certainly won't say "My actions drove her to an early grave. I'm not fit to live." He also won't enter a monastic order and dedicate his life to God because you chose to let the situation eat away at your health rather than make a change.

Ya know, I'm really getting lost in this mess.I am not obsessing in front of him or acting like a monster in front of him, I haven't even talked to him or have I seen him. I am staying away from him like everyone is telling me to do. But what good is that. He is still seeing her. I just don't feel that staying away from him and not talking to him solves any problems. This is the 3rd month he is doing this and 2 times before, how much leway can I give this man. Do me a favor, what would you do right now in my position????????? Chris, you say I'm not doing anything to make my marriage work. What do you expect me to do when your telling me to Plan B and stay away from him, don't talk to him, don't see him. How can that help a marriage. And I get edgey when I know one of my kids have spoken to him and he never asks anything about me and they never mention anything to him about me or the O/W. That, absolutely, drives me nuts. Everyone knowing and pretending with him that all is peachy cream and avoiding the issue that he is still seeing her. I got a call from his golf partner the other day, so apparently he doesn't even know he has someone else and is out of the house. I wanted to tell him but I didn't. Was I wrong?? Should I have told him he was no longer with me that he could be reached at my moms #. I am going to get him out of my moms house by the end of the month, though, I hope that I am doing right by sending him out as most of you has said to do......

What do you expect me to do when your telling me to Plan B and stay away from him, don't talk to him, don't see him. How can that help a marriage.
It might not help the marriage, but it will not hurt the marriage anymore than it is.
How can what you are doing help a marriage?

Oh, and I didn't make up these plans.
Dr. Willard Harley did and he has seen them work over.
You don't seem to believe anything we suggest so why won't you give Marriage Builders a call?

<small>[ July 15, 2004, 02:00 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Lefty:

Been there done that. Yeah it doesn't help does it? I'm 17 months into the same crap your going through. I did the same thing you did and tried to force change on her. This just drove her to the OM. It wasn't until I gave up and filed for D that she even showed the slighest hint she was thinking about me. I lost weight, got in shape, started traveling alone and generally started living again. Granted I'm still in the throws of the whole thing and it still has every chance of going belly up, but I'm much better able to handle the fallout if it does.

It's a long road recovering your self esteem and dignity, but your much better off without obsessing over the situation.

Welcome to Limboland. The moose is on the table. You can't do anything about it yourself so join everyone else and ignore it for a bit.

Lefty, If I were in your shoes, I'd file for divorce. But, then I haven't been married for decades, I have a job, and I'm from a different generation. Divorce has a lot less social stigma for my generation.

Divorce may not be the answer, but I think giving up on your husband is. Give up on him. You can't help him. Actually, he doesn't even need your help. He's doing just fine.

Give up control over the outcome of your marriage. You can't control the outcome. You can influence it, but not control it.

If I were you, I stop wasting my energy on a man who doesn't want me. Put the energy into spending time with my mother, remembering good times you had together. Spend time with the grandchildren adn children.

Don't try to get the family to control your husband. They can't control him any more than you can. And they may be trying to exert their influence in the best way they know how.

Just accept that your H has chosen to have an affair with the OW. He continues to make this choice. This is your reality.

Now, given that this is real and you have no control over it, what do you want to do with your life?

a) Mope, obsess, do drive bys, be the victim
b) Divorce the s.o.b. and start speed-dating, buy a corvette, and go wild
c) Gradually craft a life that does not involve my H. Develop a new hobby, take a dream vacation, clear out his junk I've been dying to throw out for 40 years.

Given that you can't have your husband, what do you want your life to be like?

Sometimes it's just easier to be a victim than to be proactive.

It's easier to tell everybody how he won't change or get them to side with you. And it's easier to say that it's the OW's fault or his fault.

Your decision to divorce is now based upon HIS actions and what HE decides to do.

I don't think you've done a good plan A or B and unless you REALLY LEARN AND APPLY the principles, not do each less than fifty percent decently, will you get anything positive. You still haven't claimed your part of this. One second you say you are outta control and obsessive, next one you're defending that no, you're not obsessing over him and following him.

You're not thinking clearly and I hope you will just understand that you, yes YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN ACTIONS. He will not come home as long as everything stays the same. When in plan B, the WS doesn't see the BS so that really won't accomplish him seeing your change.

My thoughts are to do a great plan A, go to the drawing boards, implement 180 techniques along with plan A, and decide how long YOU want to give this before filing. It would be sad to file now b/c you've not done things imho in enough of MB A or B to really help.

Reclaim your life now. I think your doc or counselor isn't working well btw. I am with the other poster who says to find a new one.

Find yourself now as well. Somewhere in the mix, I found the woman I had become was stronger, more loving, and better than I was before I met my xh.

Divorce isn't the end of the world; but losing and allowing yourself to lose your mind over another person and their shortcomings is the end of your world. Nobody's worth that. Your kids and family are too darn important and need you at 100% ok?

Quit being the victim and start a clean slate and give it a time frame. Do a REAL MB approach for say, 3 months. Then if it doesn't work and your flawless plan A and 180 isn't getting real change to begin in HIM then YOU do the plan B and move on towards filing.

Well said, Peachy.

Look, Lefty. Peachy has been through more than most here. Her ex is incredibly toxic. He set out to drive her nuts, as well as sleep with anything in a skirt.

Peachy could be a victim if she wanted to be.

She decided not to be. She had to fight against obessing about the various other women. It wasn't easy for her at first.

But look at her now!