Hi there - Back from the 2 week vacation. Didn't do so well. With HIS family, tried NOT to say anything because the counselor said HE should tell his people. So it was very uncomfortable to say the least. They have to suspect something when I called home and NEVER spoke to him. But they never point blank asked if anything was happening with us so I said nothing. He went to the counselor on Thursday and said he is not ready to come back because he feels I will drill him about the O/W. He said to the counselor he has not seen her for 2 weeks, but that is a cop out, she is not there, she is probably at her kids house like last year at this time. So he wasn't exactly telling the truth to the counselor again. This is my feeling. He does not want a divorce at this time he said, he does love me, he feels I will never forget about this and that I will never get over it. Perhaps he is right there. Time will tell on that one. The longer I see him seeing her, the more distant I am becoming. But the counselor said he asked my husband if I give him space at this time and not see him or bother him, could he see a future together again as a couple, and he said yes. So the counselor said I have 3 things I can do, stay away and not bother him, let him do whatever, get a divorce if I feel I can't take it anymore or longer, or try and just act like we are divorced and go on my merry way of living. He feels he WILL come back to me. But right now I am unsure if I can ever trust him again.. And he said if I tell him to get out of my mothers home, he will go and live with her. I really wanted to tell him to get out, especially that he is still seeing her. Maybe sending him IN with her again, will wise him up. I'm not sure what to do on that one yet. I still don't trust him, especially knowing she is away and he told the counselor he hadn't seen her for two weeks. He didn't say she was away......So I am back where I started, a waiting game, but he did say he doesn't want to see me in a loony toon hospital by making myself sick with following him and checking up on him. But I will have to see if he is still seeing her when she returns.....If he is, then I am going to go on my merry way and act like he's dead. That is my plan anyway. Wish me luck.......Thanks for being there when I need someone.........

Lefty, I think the question you have to ask yourself is "Do I want this man at any cost?"

The cost is your self-respect, self-esteem and all the hurt you have and will have.

I have nothing real to base this on, but I don't think your husband has been honest with the counselor. I don't think he's been truthful either.

I think he's stalling you. I don't think he wants a divorce NOW. But, I don't think he has returning home on his mind either.

greengables---I tend to agree with you also. I think he is just putting this off so he can have his cake and eat it too and he is counting on me not to tell him to leave my moms house in fear that I will throw him into her house.... But what difference does it make I am trying to convince myself. He is being picked up by her around supper or after and she is bringing him back to my moms at 5 am. If that's not living with her what is. I am still going to check up on him to see when she returns if he is still seeing her, and I really think I am going to have to grit my teeth and tell him to get out of my moms house. This is just not sitting right with me. As a matter of fact I think maybe pushing him into her house again might be a good thing, keeping him in my moms house I feel will prolong him coming back. I don't agree with the counselor on this one. If I do decide to let him there, it will be no longer than 2 months. That will make 4 months he is away this time, 2 months at a clip 2 times before. I feel he just doesn't care anymore and is putting off divorce so he can show less money earnings on income tax. that way he will have less to pay out to me.......And it seems like he is leading me on to get what he wants, I can't believe he is saying he isn't coming back because I will get on him about the O/W. Well, if I knew he wasn't seeing her for sure, I know I would give him a try, but I DON'T forsee that at this time............

But they never point blank asked if anything was happening with us so I said nothing.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Maybe sending him IN with her again, will wise him up.
That is what Plan B does. When they live together, they get to see each other as they are, warts and all.

But I will have to see if he is still seeing her when she returns
Why will you have to see that? He WILL still be seeing her. Why should he stop?

I think he is just putting this off so he can have his cake and eat it too
No. He is putting off doing anything because he does not have to do anything.

I am still going to check up on him
Why?

to see when she returns if he is still seeing her
He will still be seeing her.

And it seems like he is leading me on
And you are letting yourself be lead on.

Call Jennifer Harley. (see below

<small>[ June 30, 2004, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Come on now Lefty...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

1030-----Please explain you message.

If he really wanted your marriage to work, he would not be threatening to move in with the OW if he can't have everything his way.

Lefty,

Tell us the truth.

Are you really interested in saving your marriage (or at least doing what you need to get through this)?
Or are you just trolling here?

Lefty, I agree with Chris, and the rest.

However, I also agree with you that your h. is using this time so he won’t have to pay you as much later.

This is not about him any more. It’s about protecting you emotionally and financially. Right now, the man is using you. Period. End of discussion. He doesn’t care if you suffer or not.

That may change if you change. And if his circumstances change.

Meanwhile, you need to take care of business. Get him out of your mother’s. Expose the affair. These two items are actually protecting not only you, but also any love you may have left for that husband of yours. These two items seem to be contributing to the drain on your lovebank. It’s your duty as a wife to protect that love if you can. So, go do it.

I’m wondering about your counselor. Do you like this counselor? It seems to me, he is enabling your husband and the affair. For example, lending support to the idea that your husband just needs space, deterring you from exposing the affair because it’s up to your husband to tell his family, etc.

If you like the counselor, fine. But remember, counselors are people and they bring their own bias to the session. Good ones know their biases and try to balance them. Unfortunately, not every counselor has the self-knowledge or discipline to do this.

There is 3 things draining me at this time. His staying at my moms and still seeing the O/W, and I know your children shouldn't get involved, but it really hurts me that they don't even ask if he is getting closer to coming home again, or if your done seeing the O/W. Something, anything. My daughter works next to him 3 days a week and doesn't say anything. Although the one day he came in the truck and said to her that one of his customers neighbors wife took off up North after 30 some yrs. of marriage. My daughter sat there and said " Dad, why are you telling me that." He said " Why." She said " Your doing the same thing." " He said, " No I'm not, she left and went up North." She said " It doesn't matter where you went or go, you still left mom the same way." He didn't say anything. I just can't get the courage to tell him to get out of her house. He's good at what he is doing because he knows I want him back, although right now I'm really not sure. If I see that he is still seeing her when I see her back home again, I think that will give me the courage to tell him to leave. July 1st was 2 months he is out again. That's 6 months total in the last 2 yrs. that he has not been with me. I'm just getting tired of checking, tired of wondering is he coming home, tired of trying to keep myself busy to not thing about the situation, just plain tired. So I feel I am getting close to doing what I should be doing. Thanks for listening and all your comments and advise.

My brother-in-law called me tonight to see how I was feeling after my two week visit and getting the cold. He asked how my husband was doing I said " Would you like to talk to him." He said " yes." I said he is not here right now but I'll give you the number where he is. So I did. I said if you don't get him, call me back. Well, I did what the counselor said, if they ask about him, tell them where to get him. So now I am dying to know whether he got him. The phone was busy for quite awhile so I am sure he got through. I thought maybe my brother-in-law would call me back, but he didn't. I have a major question:::::::::: Should I call my brother-in-law back tomorrow or call my sister-in-law on her cell phone and ask if my husband called him???????? Or should I wait till I hear from someone??????????? I hate for you to say wait, because this whole year and a half is a waiting game. I want to see something come to a head, and maybe him telling his family will do something. Maybe bring him back to the real world....He also is coming around my daughter more. He asked her to go to the flea market tomorrow and maybe he would go over there and watch a video one night....She is away and that is why he is coming around our family now, when she comes back, his family will be shut out and he will be back in his little world with her. He is always out of reach when he is with her. What do you think of this now. Is he trying to get back with us, is this just cause she is away and he needs company, or is SHE getting out of his life and staying away......That will be the question...................Things are starting to change.......

Lefty - Are you really thinking we're asking you to wait? ....

Lefty, Now I know you haven't been reading a word of feedback you've been given.

No. We don't want you to wait... at least on your husband. We don't think you should bother trying to find out what he's doing or who he's talking to. You have other more important things to do that have been waiting for your attention and action for well over 18 months - in fact LONG before this crisis erupted there were things you were needlessly waiting for...

HEAR THIS AND HEAR THIS NOW!!!

Your body can't wait for you to kick your HEAD in gear get living your own life, instead of this shell that orbits like a satellite around your husband. Quit mooning for Heaven's sake!!!

You need to get off of this sick, destructive obsession about your husband's insanity. You have waited long enough on him.

I'm not saying run and file for a divorce.

I am saying, GET A LIFE!!! Go walking with your daughter and DON'T YOU DARE ASK ONCE ABOUT YOUR HUSBAND'S LATEST ANTICS. Take a yoga class and learn how to breathe and meditate on something healing and wholesome - like grandbabies, flowers, birds, fresh air and that little old fact that because you're still above ground, GOD EXPECTS YOU TO KEEP LIVING!!!

STOP WAITING FOR THIS!!!

I meant should I WAIT for my brother-in-law to call me or should I call him and ask if he spoke to his brother and then see if he says he said something about us being seperated right now. I realize this has gone on long enough for me, but I still haven't gotten the courage to as you put it " Get a Life without him." Yes I am getting sick of all this, but each day I wake there is nothing else that I think of. Sometimes I wonder if this is going to destroy me because I can't seem to get over this. But I am trying. I wish he went out of state or where I can't check on all this, but he didn't and I'm finding it hard to stop the checking. Yes, its driving me nuts but at least I found out he was still seeing her. Now I want to find out if he has ended it with her. That's the problem. There seems to be always something that I have to do that keeps this charade ongoing. And that to me is SICK, and before I end up in a looney toon home, I better wise up..............The question is WHEN>>>>>>>>> But ------ I am listening to everyone............

Don't call them. Blood is thicker than water and if they wanted to get involved they'd call you. Your entire family seems to want to avoid taking a stand on this, and I doubt they'll be any different.

Left, it seems like you keep waiting for this apacraphal catalysm that will bring your husband home.

Your brother and sister in law aren't going to make your husband come home. At this point, I doubt anyone can talk sense into you husband.

What is holding you back? Why are you so stuck?

The way you are fixated on your estranged husband, the way you allow him to use you, and the way you seem to actually thrive on the drama, doesn't bode well for you or your marriage.

Start standing up for yourself and take action. Get unstuck.

And forget your husband. Don't think about him, don't talk about him, don't call him, and don't look for him.

Your right about no one in my family wanting to take a stand on this. My husband went to the flea market this morning with my daughter and he is going over to her house tonight to watch a video. I just dropped some stuff over her house and a few checks I got for him in the mail. Answer me a question that is haunting me....... WHY DO I GET AN ANGER ATTITUDE WHEN I SEE MY DAUGHTER???????????????? I know it bothers me that NONE of my children mention ME to him when they see him. And it bothers me that HE doesn't ask anything about me when he is with them............. Are THEY RIGHT in not saying anything to him????????????????????? Wouldn't you think after him being out 2 months they would ask something?????????????? I have a good cry everytime she is with him and says none of them even mention me..............

I'm embarrassed to write this. I drove by where my husband golfs and he saw me so when he went to my moms house I drove over and said I was just going to leave a note in his truck about something. I felt like such a fool. What is wrong with me. Am I going mental or what. I didn't sleep at all last night. That's bad. He told me he is not hoarding any money from me and to go check his books today which I did already. He still does not want to come home and try and make it work. I have to give up on this man. Why can't I just let him go and leave him alone. I feel like moving away. If I didn't have my mom her with me I would. I don't know why I am doing this. My mom doesn't like the idea of telling him to get out of the house. Maybe that's not the answer. But why should he be there free and clear and yet able to carry on with this woman. What do you think of the idea of letting him stay there, but charging him rent instead of staying there for nothing? He should be done the work this month. I am getting my whole family mad at me. They are saying I have an angry attitude problem and I do. I know it, I feel it. Why am I so angry at them????? Even my grandson 3 1/2 wouldn't kiss me this morning and I made a nasty comment.....I hate this anger I am feeling. And I'm turning my family against me and my husband seems to be the one gaining the points and yet he has done the wrong.....I think that might be the problem as to my anger....I'm trying to keep busy, but I am not busy enough. I am getting tired of all this, and like you said only I can change things, but I'm having such a hard time of it....Thanks for listening, I feel like I'm going down the tubes lately....

I'm embarrassed to write this. I drove by where my husband golfs and he saw me so when he went to my moms house I drove over and said I was just going to leave a note in his truck about something. I felt like such a fool. What is wrong with me. Am I going mental or what. I didn't sleep at all last night. That's bad. He told me he is not hoarding any money from me and to go check his books today which I did already. He still does not want to come home and try and make it work. I have to give up on this man. Why can't I just let him go and leave him alone. I feel like moving away. If I didn't have my mom her with me I would. I don't know why I am doing this. My mom doesn't like the idea of telling him to get out of the house. Maybe that's not the answer. But why should he be there free and clear and yet able to carry on with this woman. What do you think of the idea of letting him stay there, but charging him rent instead of staying there for nothing? He should be done the work this month. I am getting my whole family mad at me. They are saying I have an angry attitude problem and I do. I know it, I feel it. Why am I so angry at them????? Even my grandson 3 1/2 wouldn't kiss me this morning and I made a nasty comment.....I hate this anger I am feeling. And I'm turning my family against me and my husband seems to be the one gaining the points and yet he has done the wrong.....I think that might be the problem as to my anger....I'm trying to keep busy, but I am not busy enough. I am getting tired of all this, and like you said only I can change things, but I'm having such a hard time of it....Thanks for listening, I feel like I'm going down the tubes lately....

He still does not want to come home and try and make it work.
Is there ANY reason he should change his mind? Based on what you have told us, your actions are some of the reasons for this.

What do you think of the idea of letting him stay there, but charging him rent
I think it is a terrible idea, letting him stay there for ANY reason.
You should rent it out to someone else.

I am getting my whole family mad at me.
Then stop getting them angry at you.

like you said only I can change things
No. You can only change YOU and NOT everything else.

Have you called Harley yet?
Or are you still just trolling here?

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Lefty, pick up your mom and move. Do something.

You are part of the problem. You act on your needy impulses without a lot of thought for the end goal. You aren’t treating your husband with any respect either. Following him and checking up on him is not a way to make returning home attractive. It’s not as if you suspect he’s having an affair. You know he’s having an affair. You’re just solidifying his belief that home is unpleasant, and you are obsessive and controlling.

He’s made his choice. He chooses to have the other woman and live at your mom’s. Part of that you and your mother can control.

Is there a reason why your mother doesn’t want to have him kicked out? You make it sound like wishful thinking on her part. Is there part of this story you haven’t told us that would lead your mother to side, at least partially, with your H?

Your H. may change his mind. But people only change their minds when their knowledge, experience, or environment change. When facts contradict a theory, belief or paradigm, most people change. They revisit old decisions.

So, doing more of what you’ve been doing is not going to change your husband’s mind. In fact, unless you do a 180, I doubt your husband will consider coming home a viable option.

I think you need a better marriage guide than your IC to help you through a 180.

My mom hates to just put my husband out of the house because he has done alot for her and everyone else over the past 36 years. She likes him and he likes her too. But she doesn't think it is right what he is doing now. She is back and he is back with the overnight scene again. I'm becoming like a monster with my thoughts and actions at this point. I don't even know myself anymore. I hate myself for not being about to go on. I never was controlling and obsessive until all this started. But I am like a madwoman. I'm so ashamed. And he goes on enjoying himself as if all is ok.....That alone should tell me he is not worth it. How can he say he doesn't love this person and as soon as she returns he is back over there. I am one hell of a mess. I feel like going over there at 5 am and when they show up for his drop off, have all is clothes packed and say " here, you can have him, and she can have you." But then I will put the guilt on me, and that is what he wants. I think that is why this is taking so long, he feels I will give up on him and then he will be free of guilt. But I think I will wait and see if he tells his relatives by next week, he said he thought I told them while I was up there for 2 weeks. Then his brother called him this past Sunday and I told him to call him at my mom's number thinking he would finally tell his brother, and he didn't. If I can hold out, maybe knowing I want some kind of closure as to if he is coming back or staying out, he said he will make a decision by the end of the month. I think this has gone on long enough. But I have to get strength to help myself stay away from any of them.... If I could move away , I would, but my mom is on Hospice here and my daughter said it would be letting her in a bind. I watch the grandkids for the next yr. and a half. I am making myself sick over this and I can't seem to help myself stop thinking about the situation. I think he will put me in my grave soon if I don't wise up. And you know what, I really don't care at this point. Don't say it, I know I'm feeling sorry for myself now too. My daughter says if I run away from this I will be ending up with no one in the end......Perhaps that's what I deserve right now, because I am not the person I used to be at this time........