He has agreed to letting me check on him all I want, he feels we don't need the counseling, but will go if I want him to, he said I can change the cell phone # if I want to but he says she will not call him again because she said to him when he told her he was going home to me " Well, don't ever worry about me again, we are through." He said this morning he wants to make this marriage work. My daughter says I am going to send him away again if I keep checking on him and act like I don't trust him. She also said the N/C letter might stir up more. Also she said putting it in a letter won't make a difference if they wanted to contact each other. I have to agree with that. He can just say " My wife made me write this." She really got mad that I said I was going to make him do all of this. I don't want to do that, I want to make this marriage work, but I also have to make myself feel secure in trusting him.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ July 31, 2004, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: blondblossom ]</small>

Lefty,
Why do you want to make this marriage work? What do you get out of it at this point?
I’m all for happy, permanent marriages. But you seem to not care about the happy part at all. You seem to only want the permanent part.

Are you concerned about finances? Living the rest of your life alone? Could it be sexual jealousy?

In the last few months all of your posts have been about how to get him to end the affair or how to avoid driving him to OW’s house.

Conspicuously absent has been what you are doing to make yourself whole and happy, and the desire to make your husband happy.

Currently, you depend on the OW’s pride preventing her from calling your husband. And you depend on your husband’s strength to resist OW. I personally don’t put much stock in that strength given your H’s “don’t accuse me without proof” statement, and his insistence that you two don’t need marriage counseling.

I believe he’s placating you when he says he’ll go to MC to please you. He’s probably thinking it’s like going to a doctor’s appointment with you. He sits and waits while the doctor examines you, and then you go home.

So, it seems to me you have two primary strategies to enact in order to save your marriage.

1. Heal yourself and make yourself whole and healthy.
In order to do this, you need to know your boundaries, what behaviors of others are unhealthy and destructive to you and what ones are healthy. You need to know what behaviors of your own lead to wholeness and what ones lead to harm. Then you need to defend and protect those boundaries.
2. Discover what makes your husband happy, and what makes him miserable. Then you need to set out to never harm him, to respect his boundaries, and to make him happy.

And Lefty, if you are unwilling to make your husband happy, maybe you need to reconsider having him in the house. If you are unwilling or unable to make him happy, he’ll leave again. If you are unwilling to make him happy, you are violating the marriage contract, too. Not in such a stabbing painful way, but in a slow death kind of way.

She also said the N/C letter might stir up more.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Stir up the pot more than his affair and his leaving three times? Is she serious?

Also she said putting it in a letter won't make a difference
It does make a big difference which is why Harley says to do it.

if they wanted to contact each other. I have to agree with that.
So you don't really want to take the steps necessary to at least try & recover your marriage?
Just continue to play the "martyr" card?

What if one day I am not secure about what he said he did that day in regard to his job. He said the one day he took some rubbish from a job and also went to pick up a sample at his drs. office. For one thing the time he said he finished his regular work, doing the odd jobs and traveling to the drs. office and then coming home did not fit. Plus he would have had to use his work truck to do it all because his truck the milage was only for coming home, not doing all that he said. I didn't let him know, but it still raises a question as to being honest. Since he has said not to accuse him of anything unless I have proof, he has put me into a position of not saying anything. Although maybe for now I should just make mental notes of some things that don't fit and plan A as you say. But he seems to be trying to make an attempt at a happy medium. I just find it hard shrugging off things that don't fit. But it is easier this time than the other 2 times he came back. Last time, bringing it up didn't keep him with me, so this time, maybe if I let it go without saying anything, time will tell. He does not like when I bring anything up about her or what has happened in conversation. I guess I am wrong in bringing up the past, today is a week he is back, and the reminder is still vivid in my mind right now so it is hard not to bring anything up.

Lefty,

Not one of us recommended Plan A at this stage.
Not one of us recommended you comply with your husband's demand that you don't ask him about things that "don't fit."
Not one of us recommended that you not ask about the affair.

What is your goal here? What do you want from the marraige and your H?

GG is right.

I am truly getting frustrated.

You're not applying ANY AT ALL MB principles here. You're just doing what you think at the time will not rock the boat.

Reconciliation will not work if YOU KEEP DOING THE SAME DAMN THINGS YOU ARE DOING.

That means....CHANGE COURSE.

What to do?
1)NC letter
2)COUNSELING...BIG TIME...W/HARLEYS
3)Accountability for H's time, phone, whatever

Those are simply 3 things that you must have in order for this to even begin a bit to work.

If not, it's the same story, part three beginning again. You're asking for same thing to happen. He hasn't offered any change from before when he left.

OW may just be "mad" at him b/c he didn't fix her faucet or something.

Anybody who does what your WH does and still has enough audacity to make demands on you (no asking, no questioning unless you have proof of something like affair) is STILL CHEATING OK?

Use your brain. Please think. We don't want to be any way mean or inconsiderate..It's hard enough to go through this...but to keep doing things incorrectly over and over will give you in the end the same thing you have always ended up with.

If you want your marriage to heal, take appropriate...APPROPRIATE STEPS...and H must agree to them jointly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lefty:
<strong> What if one day I am not secure about what he said he did that day in regard to his job. He said the one day he took some rubbish from a job and also went to pick up a sample at his drs. office. For one thing the time he said he finished his regular work, doing the odd jobs and traveling to the drs. office and then coming home did not fit. Plus he would have had to use his work truck to do it all because his truck the milage was only for coming home, not doing all that he said. I didn't let him know, but it still raises a question as to being honest. Since he has said not to accuse him of anything unless I have proof, he has put me into a position of not saying anything. Although maybe for now I should just make mental notes of some things that don't fit and plan A as you say. But he seems to be trying to make an attempt at a happy medium. I just find it hard shrugging off things that don't fit. But it is easier this time than the other 2 times he came back. Last time, bringing it up didn't keep him with me, so this time, maybe if I let it go without saying anything, time will tell. He does not like when I bring anything up about her or what has happened in conversation. I guess I am wrong in bringing up the past, today is a week he is back, and the reminder is still vivid in my mind right now so it is hard not to bring anything up. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by greengables:
<strong>
And Lefty, if you are unwilling to make your husband happy, maybe you need to reconsider having him in the house. If you are unwilling or unable to make him happy, he’ll leave again. If you are unwilling to make him happy, you are violating the marriage contract, too. Not in such a stabbing painful way, but in a slow death kind of way. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">GG has it right on the money with this. The slow death is the worst thing that can happen.

Please don't misconstrue "making your husband happy" as allowing your husband to walk all over you. At this point, in order to get to a place where you and your h can make each other happy, you need to go through some awkward, difficult and even sad times. You need to confront the truth about the affair, what happened, why it happened, and what you two can do to prevent it from happening again.

So far, you seem unwilling to move beyond the same old dance.

Well, yesterday was the first week he is home. I think we did pretty good, he went to play cards twice this week when I went to play, we went to a movie, we took our grandkids night swimming. But yesterday he had 2 odd jobs. He did tell me where he was going and he called me when he was leaving, but I have to secure myself some way to know that he is at that certain job. This is where my insecurity is and when he used to meet up with her, after his normal lawn cuttings. And he doesn't take his cell phone in with him, he leaves it in his truck so he is out of reach. So I told him to take it whereever he is. He says I can go check up on him anytime, but I just don't have the time to run around making sure his is where he says he is. He did get real mad when I mentioned taking the phone in with him, he says he's doing everything I'm asking and I always want more. I told him there are some things that will work better than others, and I feel that having his phone with him at all times for now is what has to be for me to get my trust back. Although he could answer and say he is there and there is no way to prove it short of talking to the person and that he would not agree to because he would be embarassed. Is there any suggestions for securing the odd jobs???????? Otherwise, he seems to be trying to do all that is necessary to make a comeback. But it is early yet. You said I have to make him happy. Well, saying NOTHING about the affair would make him happy, NEVER bringing it up again would make him happy. He acts like I should turn everything off and act as if it never happened and believe that he is back and he is going being true blue because he says it is over...I can't imagine how he can think I can shut it off like that. I told him he has to gain his trust back and that will take time. We never fought before, and this week was fine until I rocked his boat about the cell phone. I took him to golf this morning because it is down from HER development and I am unsure if she would approach him since this is the second week he is away from her. He was fine with that, but I felt stupid doing that, but it did secure me and make me feel better. I don't want to make him feel that I am trying to control him. It just helps me feel better taking him, or do you think I was wrong in doing this and should I have just left the door open to whatever happens and trusting him to do the right thing if she approaches him???????

No, Lefty you did the right thing in taking him.

Please let me clarify what I meant when I said the marriage required you be interested in making him happpy.

I did not mean the kind of bizarre evasion of consequences that not talking about the affair is. Is any one really happy when they do something horribly wrong, and they don't suffer from it? No! They sit around waiting for divine retribution to catch up with them.

What I meant is that you need to find out what the OW was able to offer him that was so enticing he couldn't pass it up. What needs did shee fill, and how can you fill those emotional needs better?

Have you read Towsend & Cloud's book Boundaries in Marriage? I think you need to read it immediately.

YOU NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP!
YOU DO NOT TAKE NOTE OF ANY OF OUR ADVICE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
CALL MARRIAGE BUILDERS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lefty

I feel like I am in a time warp here. This is almost an exact reenactment of the last time he came home. And the same very patient and caring people are still here trying very hard to get through to you. How long do you think he will stay this time before he bails?

Seriously Lefty, you are doing nothing different. People post to you and it is almost like you don't even read their posts. Some great questions and advice are posted and next thein you are sprouting off in another direction without even acknowledging anything that these kind people have been trying to get through to you.

I wonder if God forbid, something happened to you H and he died. What would you do then?

You seem incapable of acting independantly. No matter what he says you seem to jus do as he says. Lefty, you do not have to blindly do whatever your H says. He has treated you terribly. Of course he doesn't want you to talk about it. That would involve him facing what he has done. Where is his care for you? Where is his sorrow for hurting you? Where is him putting some action into his words eg sending NC letter, making you feel safe. Facing your issues in afair.

Your H does not rule how you react or respond to what has occurred in YOUR life Lefty. You are not his puppet. Start thinking for yourself. You are capable of making some decisions for yourself. Try it, you will be amazes how good it feels to take some action because it is what Lefty thinks is best for her, rather than someone else.
C&S

What am I not doing right for all of you.? Last time he came home we went to counseling, he accounted for his time and called me where he was and he still strayed to her again twice after all of this. He was even lying to the counselor. So what did all this do. He has a job where it is hard to keep track of every move. He does the lawns, ends his day and comes home. Its the end of the day I worry about. He says I can go with him, follow him, call him, or whatever. But sometimes he does odd things on his way home from the lawns, THAT is my concern for the time. The only thing would be making him call from a persons house that he is doing the odd job at, and I know he would not go for that. And sometimes no one is home. So I do have to trust him somewhat on certain things. Even the calls on the cell phones homes, he could be at a ladys house and I would never know it. So there is so much you can only do. I do know how long his schedule takes him on days , and so far it looks all good to me, The milage on his non business truck is right on the money, no more out of the way travels except for two days on an odd job he told me where he went and it was not accurate. but I didn't approach him on it because I do NOT want to accuse him as he said without proof. You see, this statement he made is keeping me from saying anything to him that has me concerned like the milage. I am keeping track of it and if I see more I will have to bring it up but for now I want to keep quiet and see what he does for me. He is definitely going out of his way to try and please me, watching videos with me some evenings instead of me in one room, him in the other, he goes two nights a week with me to the clubhouse to play cards, - he NEVER did that. He always stayed home. And thats when he used to call her. The counseling I have not made an appt. for as yet, but I will. I just was not sure if I wanted to go to the same one. He said " Leave him alone to do whatever, and try not to bother him." I did not agree with that. So it is different this time it seems. If he had a 9 - 5 job it would be a little easier, but he doesn't. I do not feel I an NOT listening to what everyone is saying....

What has happened is your x is passively still in control of everything going on.

He can put forth imho, minimal effort and still have some benefits of being wayward.

Such as no questioning unless you have concrete proof of his guilt and cheating again...

And also you're doing the same stuff as before. He went to counselor before. You went before.

Not only do you two need to work together, but there needs to be a counselor who is a specialist in affair busting. That's why we say to call the Harleys.

If he wants you to feel secure in your marriage, that he is being faithful, then his actions should MIRROR his words. And they don't.

He has not agreed to NC letter and you haven't sent it.

Doesn't wanna rock the boat...think you might find a little cake crumbs in his easychair if you really think about it.

He doesn't sound like a broken man to me and a changed person at all. Sounds like you let the same man, same issues, come back home under same pretenses as before.

Tell us what is NEW. What is in in line with MB philosophy and what's in line with the great advice you've gotten.

Let's say a child, say a six year old (as some WS have been compared to mentally) with their hand in the cookie jar. The mom or dad catches them. The kid eats the cookie anyway and is given a light punishment. They shake their finger at the child and say "no no no" "don't do that again. or else you'll get a spanking". Well the kid doesn't get a spanking and after a short while is passed, the cookie jar is raided by said child again. Same thing happens. The parents shake their fingers at child and say "now this is the last time we're gonna put up with this. No more sneaking cookies. If you do it again, I swear we'll spank you and no tv for a week." Kid gets NO harsh consequences and again and again the cookie stealing goes on and on and on.

The subsequent times a WS is caught, there should be consequences to their actions. What you H basically conveyed to you is like this..and I am basing it on the above cookie scenario ok? "Allright. Unless you catch me EATING the cookie or HOLDING the cookie, you cannot punish me if you THINK I may have eaten a cookie...even if you have said it's wrong. I know it's wrong too, but unless you catch me, then shut up about it."

I am upset this morning. My husband got paid for an odd job, had my daughter cash the check and I never got the money so far..... Why is he doing this?????????????? He said he is being totally honest with me......When I get to where I start believing in him, a boulder gets dropped on my head...........What shall I do in this case. He said to her he will give me some, but not all of it....That is not right.............

Ich gibs auf! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ August 07, 2004, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: blondblossom ]</small>

He got paid for another job and said he will give me the money after he pays my daughter and my son. I told him I should see the check to know what he is making on these odd jobs.....He says he gives me all the weekly money and that the odd job money he pays for the gas, dinners for us, etc. with the odd job money. But, I want him to show all monies he is making, and then take what he wants out of it. I just DO NOT agree on him keeping anything on the side without me knowing it. And then he says " See, I told you, you will never trust me. " He always throws that in my face. I told him he has to prove his trust and keeping money on the side without it going through me is not going to bring my trust back.......... Am I wrong??????????????? What suggestions can I make to make this go more smoothely????????????? Am I being unfair or is he being unfair??????????????????????

Lefty,
Why is it so important to you that you see all the money he makes? I believe you have a right to know all about the joint finances, and I'm betting in your marriage it was all joint.

However, you seem to want to hold it in your hands and then give it back to him. Why?

This approach may make your husband feel emmasculated, and that's that last thing a wife should ever do. If a man feels emmasculated by his wife, he's easy pickings for a woman on the make.

On the other hand, if you are worried he's hinding money from you, I suggest you request his monthly financials, specifically, the Profit and Loss sheet, and it wouldn't hurt for you two to run up a balanace sheet which shows Assets, Liabilities and Equity.