Due to some issues with my daughter the WW and I spend quite a bit of time together over the last weekend. I felt my resolve slipping. I felt myself getting reattached, reconnecting.

Found out she's still seeing him.
Found out she now loves him.
Found out I hadn't distanced myself near enough to forego the immense pain I have right now.

Took my stand last night and broke out the papers. Told her to please just let me go. Asked her to sign the papers and let's stop this pain and suffering. Told her enough was enough.

Ugh. Ended up taking a bubble bath with her. No SF. No SF for the last 7 months on my part at least. Also ended up spending the night with her. Double ugh.

Please Someone HIT ME!!!! Knock some sense into me.

Yes I still love her and YES I know I'm a Sap!

email exchange today:


From me:
Why didn't you take the paper's?

Please don't make me do this the hard way. I cannot stay married to you if you love someone else. I can't do this anymore. Save us from going through more pain than we have to.

Her reply:
this is not what you want. you're being irrational and emotional.

My Reply:
If you were in my position you would have divorced me the day after my affair without a thought or care. I think I've held on longer than anyone could imagine. I won't be a crumb eater anymore. I won't be 2nd anymore. It just keeps getting worse for me. I need an ending to this pain and suffering. I can't make you love me, I can't make you stop seeing him, heck I can't even make you kiss me with any real feeling behind it. I can't make you do anything, but I can choose to end my relationship with you, get over you and move on with my life.. That's the ONLY thing I can do. My ONLY option.


Help Wanted! Someone to wack me with a bat from time to time. Pay is commenserate with level of compassion while actually doing the wacking.

GET A GRIP ON YOUR ACTIONS...only you can change your life circumstances. You cannot change her. This was very hard for me as well and I took a stand about 5 weeks ago and have not looked back since. I feel so much better and have met a few women already...one alot younger! Just having fun, nothing serious.

You need to establish a boundary and tell your wife you no longer need to be her friend or companion. Limit the phone discussion/contact to the business at hand only...no need to stay in touch with her anymore...this will only continue to hurt you. Be business-like in all of your communications.

Get out of the bathtub, man, what are you doing? Move out of the bedroom and sleep in another room. Avoid contact!!! This is the key...get out of the house, meet new people, workout, get in shape, etc....this will only strengthen you and your resolve to end the R.

So, the sooner you realize that....and WAKE UP....you will begin to feel better.

File and move ahead. Mourn for a time but realize what is ahead of you. Make the choice to move on for you and no one else. She will have to deal with her own crap at some point in the future...probably when she is being dumped for the first time.

I hope this helps...but it really comes down to you and your ability to regain control of YOUR LIFE!!!!

honestly - I can't find anything wrong with what you did. I can find a lot of reasons to hit her with a 2x4 - but not you.
You love your wife. How dreadful of you.
You had the chance to find companionship with her in bubble bath - and you did not even get to have SF!!! Good lord man - are you made of steel???
she tells you she is "in love" with OM and you are hurting again. Go figure.
What I want to know is this - why is she still putting of the D? I don't get it. She is supposedly in this new R, in love with another man, but she won't sign the papers??? And she tells you that you are just being emotional and irrational? What the hell?? Of coure you are emotional - but not irrational. You actually want to move on with your life, but feel the need to actually BE single before you start acting single.
I have a 2x4 all right, but it's not for you. Whats her address? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Hang in there buddy. I have a feeling the doo-doo is going to hit the fan this week.

Her Response:

i'd really wish you'd stop pressuring me. this is not fair. my life is turned even more upside down and i'm just trying to figure out how to stay sane.


My Response
<Wife> I don't see how I'm pressuring you. I'm asking to put an end to the pressure, to the insanity.

I'm not trying to make you choose between him and me. I know your life is upside down and your feeling stress. I don't like seeing you like that. I derive no pleasure from asking you for this in fact it hurts a lot, but this is my only option for finding peace. I'm not expecting you to come running to me and be the perfect wife. That used to be my hope.

No it's not fair that you expect me to stand by while you continue your affair. It's not fair that I keep getting hurt. It's not fair that I've lost my wife to someone else and it's not fair that I can't have love too.

Nature:

I am currently living in an apartment having been asked to move out back in October to give her some space. I filed for D in Jan and the 60 day waiting period was up April 1. She will not sign the papers. This forces me to get a new lawyer for a contested divorce. This is not something I want to do. I don't want a court battle and the lawyers dividing our estate 3 ways. The problems with my daughter is that her marriage is now in trouble and she has moved home. I do not have enough space in my apartment for her and all of her pets. WW offered to let her stay with her. WW sites that DD needs us both there for support. Guilt and the desire to be there for my DD have kept me there all week.


womanoffaith5:

Thanks for the reply and the support. LOL, made of steel...... actually ... nevermind, I'll not go there.

Your responses to her are perfect - couldn't be better. She is "trying to stay sane" and she is "feeling too much pressure" - so break it off with OM! And she feels that it is important for the two of you to support D, who is going through a D - then break it off with the OM!
I know others would disagree with me - but I think you are right on target with whatever you want - she is feeling too much pressure? GOOD! Divorce is not supposed to be easy. Abandoning your H is not supposed to be easy.
Throughout this week she will be forced to finally take a long hard look at what she is doing, and either decide that it just isn't worth it, or decide that she indeed wants to be with her soul-friggin-mate, and finally let you move on. Either way, looks like you will get some relief.
Certainly I would not suggest that forcing the D is a good way to bring her back. But it may do that very thing, or it may get you a D. At least you are in control for a change. And that is a good feeling, isn't it.
Man of Steel.
Perhaps you should change your user name.

womanoffaith5:

Thanks again for your support. Does it feel good to be in control? Tough question.

I know I can stick to my guns and see this D through if that's how it goes, but I would have to say that I'd rather it go the other way. I have a feeling I will end up having the paper signed and in a way that breaks my heart, but I realize that my heart is currently being slow roasted and will remain that way until I do something about it.

This has been going on 18 months. I've held on all I can. It's time to move on.

Since this is the second time around for me I think it will be a bit easier for me. Granted I didn't go through this much pain the first time.

Sheesh... 2 failed marriages I'm on a roll!

on my way to a baseball game, so this will be my last post of the day. I just had to add something here - I am not at all convinced that she is going to sign, or that she sees this marriage as over.
The bubble bath thing is really interesting to me. If she were convinced that OM was "the one" I don't think she would be able to share a bath with you. I just don't see it.
I didn't say that earlier, because I hate to build false hope, but if you truly want your wife, and your M to work, I think the bath is interesting, and I think the fact that she won't sign the papers is interesting. You may have to give that some more thought.
Hang in there buddy.

I really do not agree with WOF5. If she wanted your M she would be putting forth the effort to save it...she is the classic fence sitter, cake eater type of WS...I really think they all fit this category.

My recommendation would be to end this thing for your well being only. Stop the dilly dallying, no more bubble baths or Mr. Nice Guy....that is what she is seeing. Stand up for yourself unless you want to be broken again by her.

I have taken this stance and it's interesting to see my wife asking me do I have anything else to say, are we really trying to get this over ASAP (the D). Of course we are, you lying cheating SOB! That is what these people have turned into. They only know how to lie and deceive and not own up to their behavior.

I think you need to step up. But, only you will know when you reach that point like I did a short while ago. NO MORE LIMBO LAND!!! NO MORE LIMBO LAND!!!

WoW!

What a difference a night makes.

I went over to the house last night to see the daughter. When I got there WW was already home and ran up to give me a hug and kiss. Spent some time talking to D and WW suggest we all go out to dinner. After dinner we go back to the house and WW ask me to go on a walk with her. Nice long walk talking chit chat. Back at the house I gather up my stuff getting ready to leave. WW ask me back in bedroom and pleads for me to stay the night again. I point to the stack of divorce papers on the dresser and ask her to please get them signed tomorrow.

WW says all the right things. She's going to NC OM today, she's going to put me first, work on 'us' and do what it takes to rebuild. Long talk with her doing most of it. Me listening thinking, "damn 18, or even 12 months ago this would have been awesome...ok awesomer, but better late than never."

False Recovery? Recovery? or just saying what it takes to get what she wants for right now?

Spent the night... again

<small>[ July 08, 2004, 09:01 AM: Message edited by: HarryS ]</small>

How can you trust her? How does she no longer love the OM...I mean, it was just over the weekend you found out she was still with him, right and she loves himt? THAT WAS JUST A FEW DAYS AGO!!

Are they still together? What happened?

What do you believe? How can you believe her now? Actions speak louder than words. I would ask for full accountability, cell records, etc. She needs to open her life up to you. Anything less and it is false and not worth your time or effort.

Trust in yourself and no one else. I would really be careful here, they only know how to lie and deflect issues from themselves. Remember, she wants her cake and you too!!

Congratulations Harry!

I wonder if watching your daughter’s marriage shatter has had an effect on your wife? Take it easy and proceed with a plan.

1) Have your wife write a NC letter to OM. Have her give it to you and you mail it.

2) Get into marriage counseling to try to determine what was the cause of this mess.

3) Have her account for her time. Ask for access to her cell phone, voice mail, e-mail, etc.

4) Plan a time each week to talk about issues, but do not do it all the time. If things get heated, stop and try again another time.

5) Do the emotional needs questionnaire on this site and identify her top 3 needs, begin to try to meet them.

6) This is an important one. Expect some setbacks. Expect her to have a hard time stopping contact with OM. Expect her to be resentful; she will probably go through withdrawal and during this time, she will not be pleasant to be around. Expect her to rewrite history to justify what she did. A lot of guilt goes along with being a WS.

I hope that she really means what she says. It would be nice to see someone have that “happy ending” that seems to allude so many here.

Finally, don't throw away those divorce papers; just put them away for a while.

trying so hard to stay out of it.......resisiting temptation to post.....don't want to give bad advice.....
ok, I give in, I am going to post.

I am not even a little surprised. Well, maybe a little surprised that it was only 24 hours later, but it was just too unusual that she would want you to spend the night all those times - and wouldn't sign the papers - accused you of rushing...bubble bath...

I would not say false recovery - only that it is the early stages of recovery. She is truly a fence sitter - I agree with the other poster here that she has been eating a lot of cake this past year.
But, I do think she has taken the first step towards recovery, and after all that is what you look for.
I agree that you need to set the boundaries listed above, and do not budge. I am not a real Dr Phil fan, but he has one statement that I like "you teach people how to treat you". So beginning today, you need to teach her how to treat you with repect. No going back to the OM for "closure". No calling OM just becuase they are "still friends". She is in for a hard fall still, and so far you are the only one who knows it. Counseling right away. As soon as possible.
I do believe you are on the right track - but be very cautious. Remember the past 18 months - when something good happens, it is usually followed right away by something bad. That doesn't mean false recovery - it just means shes following the script.

Comfortably Numb:

Thanks so much for your reply. Very sound advice and once I get on track with this I will be sure to implement it.

womanoffaith5:

Please don't give up on me! I value your comments and viewpoints! Your on my thread now and you can't leave without permission! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Ok.... whew

Yesterday
Called wife just to chat during work (kinda like we used to do everyday). She was pretty much nonconversational and I let it go after a few minutes. Went back to my place after work not sure of what I should do. After a bit I called over there and asked what was going on. She was very distant, but did invite me over for dinner with her and DD. I got there and no kiss, no hug, not even a smile. <Bam> letdown.

Had dinner and complimented her, thanked her, tried to reach out.... nothing there.

Spent a couple of hours talking to daughter with wife and afterward I got my things and was going to leave.

Wife says, "why are you leaving?" and I tell her that I feel like I wore out my welcome and that maybe I've been around too much. Wife says, "Well you here now, you might as well stay".

WoW! I'm so excited by this *blah* approach I almost wet myself. She then goes to the bathroom and closes the door (long standing notice to keep out) and sequesters herself for 90 minutes. It's now 12:30am when she comes out. She turns out the light and tells me to come to bed. Without thinking (ok I thought a little bit and hope maybe there would at least be some hugging (hope for SF is nearly dead)) I went to bed with her. After 20 minutes or so I hear her deep breathing denoting she has fallen asleep and I lay there struggling with my demons. At 1:30 I get up, get dressed and leave.

Not real happy with this recovery and I KNOW MY EXPECTATIONS ARE WAY TOO HIGH!

<looks for a pin to deflate my expectations>

ok - this is certainly none of my business - but what in the heck could she have possibly been doing in the bathroom for 90 minutes? 10 - 15 minutes, maybe, but 90? Did she have her cell phone with her?

The let downs are hard - we all know that. I am still worried about something even bigger happening - weekends are always intersting when you are going theough this crapola. I will try to check in with you a couple of times this weekend.
As much as you are struggling with your own inner demons, I suspect her struggle is even worse.
Sounds like you have not sat down with her for a serious talk yet about what your expectations are. I know you are afraid to scare her off - but you need to give her the ground rules. and allow her to give some input. Perhaps something like "I think we need to talk about out mutual expectations. I have a few things I expect during our recovery time, and I would like to hear what your expectations are as well."

Sounds like she is going through withdrawls - it is a very real thing. In my opinion, it isn't so much that they miss the OP - they miss the way they felt during that time. Even when OP turns out to be a complete jerk - they remember that for a while they felt happy - excited - whatever in the hell you want to call it. Just like a drug addiciton - you know its bad, but it made you feel good for awhile. This too will pass - and someday she will look at the OM with disgust. Bt it will take time.
Don't you hate that part - the waiting?

She's always been a bathroom hog. She sit's in there with her cat. I'll be honest here... I've gone around and looked in the window. I still don't know what she's doing. I can see her, but have no clue. Sometime's she's messing with her nails other times she stares into the mirror, but she does this almost every night.

I told her we need to discuss expectations, but haven't pushed it. I know I need to, but your right I don't want to scare her off.

SF is going to be a tough one. I know I have very strong expectations on this subject and I also know that her resistence mirrors my need. The more I want it the more she doesn't.

an example:

The other night I was sitting on the floor in front of the bed when she came out of the bathroom. She was just wearing a nightshirt and nothing else. She started going twards the dresser where her underwear is, but then changed her mind at the last second and came and sat on my lap. Let me tell you.... I tried to keep my cool. We held each other for a bit and after awhile I started stroaking her back. This continued for a few minutes and then I <ugh> gasped slightly (uncontrolled response) and she said stop. Got up and put the underwear on.

Needless to say disappointment was written all over me. We got into a bit of a spat which resulted in me having another sleepless night.

We have always (cept at the the first year of our relationship) had disparring sex drives. I've always wanted it a lot more than she's been willing to give it. It's always resulted in ZERO compromise. She wins. It even got to the point where she felt that I was only interested in her for sex. So what is a guy to do?

Maybe I should be posting this on the Dr. Ruth site.

How do you hide a need that's impossible to hide (in a guy's case). Sheesh.... 7 months and counting. Am I asking too much?

This a tough situation. I am at a loss for words (rare for me).
the bathroom time sounds like her chance to spend time alone and unwind.
I am thinking that perhaps a MC would be helpful here - a chance to have an open dialog, with someone else in the room who can suggest to her that she needs to start considering your needs.

When she sat on your lap, w/o underwear the other night, she was sending you a clear message. no doubt. And you sighed? That is not a bad thing. Drooling is bad - sighing is not.
And then to walk away and leave you "hanging" is just wrong.
But then again, this whole sitation is wrong, so what is the yardstick by which we judge?
Let me share my current situation - just a little of it anyway -
D was final in December. My ex has recently asked to come back - he wants his family back (and he likes the new house the boys and I recently purchased <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> )
I have given it a lot of thought this past week - and the bottom line is that I know it would be better for the kids if we got back together - they miss their dad. If he was living with us they would get to see him more (he makes very little effort otherwise) and I do have feelings for him. He makes me laugh like no one else can. We like to watch sports together - drink beer together - laugh at ths same stupid things. Those are all qualtiies I love about him. BUT I can't seem to find it in my heart to be attracted to him sexually. Just can't do it. I used to. We had SF at least twice a week, and I enjoyed it. But after all I have endured this past year, I simply can not work up the desire for him any longer. And that makes me sad. because I want a good sex life - and he deserves one too - and apparantly we can not have that together.
I am not saying this is what your W is feeling - she is the WS here, not the BS. In my EX's case, he has made attempts to have SF with me, but I am not interested, at all. I do not sit on his lap, I do not take baths with him, nothing. I think that as the BS I just have endured too much pain. But him - as the WS - he is still interested. It is a shame really.
I guess what I am saying is that a good sex life is important. It is the glue that keeps you together when everything else is bad. I don't know how she was able to sit on your lap and then walk away without crossing the finish line (did she go into the bathroom for 90 minutes after that? - I am so bad)

The more I sit here and respond, the more I reach one conclussion - you two need to start talking about this stuff. You have a right to ask her flat out what is going on her mind right now. You have a right to say "I know you are not in the mood for SF right now, but could you tell me if this is something that I can expect anytime in the future?"
When you finally get the chance to open a dialog (hopefully very soon) try to remember that she did not want a D - that you asked her to sign papers - but she wouldn't do it. You have more control in this situation than you realize.
Let me add one little bit of encouragement - she wanted to take a bubble bth with you. That is big. I have no desire at all to have a bath with my ex. I enjoy sitting with him in the bleachers watching our son play baseball. But bubble bath - no way.
Also --- very important - stay away from situations that might get you into trouble. Do not allow yourself to be alone in a room with another woman. You are so vulnerable right now. If a woman were to simply brush up against you, thee would be a problem! And once you cross that line with someone else - you will feel yourself pulling away from your WS. I know what I am talking about here.

I just wanted to add my 2 cents from a "guy" point of view as some of HS comments reflect what I was going through...this may help a little, maybe not.

A little background first for you to understand.

My WS A was supposedly over....I never really knew at the time (this was January) but I knew they were still talking and we had a few blowup conversations about it and other things...basically she said to let it go in order for us to move forward...okay, let me try this, we cannot talk at all about what happened, now I am super insecure and I am supposed to just forget about it, sweep it under the rug. For some bizarre reason over the course of the A my drive and desire for her GREW IMMENSELY. I feel like I am 22 again...I want it almost all of the time! Why, I don't know, I guess I just felt so insecure unless I was "with" her.

Of course, she did not feel the same way..but would tease me a little like your spouse...and lo and behold, as I later found out, the A was not over at all..so, in reaction to my desires, she starts telling me to calm down, she does not want to feel like an object or a piece of meat, etc. I am sitting there wondering what is the problem, I want you, I desire you, you are my wife, help me out here, even just lend a hand, etc. How embarrasing!

Well, I now know since the A was never over she was getting her kicks from someone else. And to her, I was just sex, no real attachment emotionally.

I hate to think but maybe this is the case here?

womanoffaith5:


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am thinking that perhaps a MC would be helpful here - a chance to have an open dialog, with someone else in the room who can suggest to her that she needs to start considering your needs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've tried that before, but she had no interest in going. Maybe it's time to make that a deal killer.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When she sat on your lap, w/o underwear the other night, she was sending you a clear message. no doubt. And you sighed? That is not a bad thing. Drooling is bad - sighing is not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It was more like a groan, very slight. It just slipped out. Needless to say it was a notice to her that I was enjoying the situation too much.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know how she was able to sit on your lap and then walk away without crossing the finish line (did she go into the bathroom for 90 minutes after that? - I am so bad) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Uh, no. She went to sleep. She's always been a bit repressed when it comes to sex. Never very adventurous. To her not a big deal at all. I know when it does happen she enjoys it (I think I remember that).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The more I sit here and respond, the more I reach one conclussion - you two need to start talking about this stuff. You have a right to ask her flat out what is going on her mind right now. You have a right to say "I know you are not in the mood for SF right now, but could you tell me if this is something that I can expect anytime in the future?"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've done this. She says she doesn't know and to please stop pressuring her. She has also stated before why I can't be content just holding her. I've told her that I love holding her to which she responds "Everytime you hold me for any length of time you always want sex, you might not say it or do anything about it, but I can tell"

Uh.... fine, I'm guilty. Give me a knife and we won't have to worry about that any more! Ugh! Ugh! Ugh!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Also --- very important - stay away from situations that might get you into trouble. Do not allow yourself to be alone in a room with another woman. You are so vulnerable right now. If a woman were to simply brush up against you, thee would be a problem! And once you cross that line with someone else - you will feel yourself pulling away from your WS. I know what I am talking about here. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Been there and done that. Now I'm secret agent man. I shop for food in the middle of the night. I don't look females in the eye. I order books online. There have been more than once I've looked down on that line and run away.

I've told her before that it's getting harder and harder for me to deal with unmet needs (not just SF). I've asked her to basically to poop or get off the pot and that I didn't want to hurt her in the same way she's hurt me.

looks like another push to counseling....

Nature:

Oh man. The Moose on the table!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Well, I now know since the A was never over she was getting her kicks from someone else. And to her, I was just sex, no real attachment emotionally.

I hate to think but maybe this is the case here?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that's crossed my mind on more than one occassion. It's not something that's healthy for me to think about, but it's something I need to be aware of. I've not thrown that fear at her....YET. I know if I do there will be hell to pay.