HarryS,

Just so you know, my exH did the same thing your W is doing...he would ask me not to leave or not to separate, etc. but he would offer nothing new, no reason to hope for change, no plan for recovery and do no work to change himself. His "solution" was usually a vague "I'm working on it" or "I'll get to it when I have time" or "I'll do it when I'm ready"--something unmeasurable and with no specific timeframe, and I was supposed to just wait and wait and wait until that miraculous day came along.

One day, a very wise friend shared with me that sometimes conflict avoiding people do not have the guts or backbone (whatever you want to call it) to tell you "no" to your face: "No, I don't want to work on this marriage anymore." So they tell you "yes" just to shut you and give you enough of a crumb of hope not to move or make any progress. Do words and actions match? Does your spouse promise they will do something and then months go by and nothing is done, and if you politely remind them, they say, "I never said that!" or "I'll do it later!" Then it may be that your spouse is a conflict avoider.

My suggestion to you would be to do something like what I did. I took a step back from the emotions of it all--tried to be as objective as possible (and that's hard when it's your marriage, but try)--and really gave it some thought: what are the two or three BOTTOMLINE core issues that must be addressed FOR ME? I got it narrowed down to 3 issues that had to be addressed in some way, and I gave him 3 days to respond/reply in some way. There had to be some kind of start, movement, or plan in place and started in 3 days. Otherwise, what he was actually saying was, "I do not really want to work on this" no matter WHAT his words were saying.

My core issues were pretty intense. For an example so you get the idea, here were my 3 issues:

1) What is your plan to make this marriage and relationship MUTUALLY happy and satisfying for both of us? Include how you intend to address staying 100% faithful and monogamous in body and mind--and how you intend to address the multiple affairs and possible sexual addiction.

2) What is you plan to admit, face, and deal with your mental illnesses and your physical illness? Include how you intend to use medications, diet, exercise, counseling, therapy and support groups to stop denying the illnesses.

3) What is your plan to take full responsibility for the physical, mental, emotional and verbal abuse and protect me from the damage done from an issue that is fully yours? Include specific groups or scheduled counseling that you plan to attend or use.

Yes, my requests are pretty demanding, and yet at the time what was happening was a lot of denial, blame and avoidance, so it had to be pretty blunt, I felt.

And just so you know, I probably WOULD have stayed or at least held some hope if he had come back with a plan that worked for him, that lead to mutual happiness and faithfulness, that lead to admitting he had a mental illness and dealing with it, and that lead to taking responsibility for his rages. If there had been a PLAN and it was something he was comfortable with and willing to start right away, and I could see steps being made and progress in a direction toward reuniting in a healthy and happy relationship, I would have stayed.

Sooooo...if she is asking/requesting/begging you not to file today, may I suggest that you figure out what your core issues are--pick two or three major ones--and ask her for HER plan to address them? And give her three days to respond and get started. If she's not willing to start right now, she's stringing you along. If she's willing to start #1, work on it a week, then start #2, work on it a week, then start #3 and work on all three for a year...well then there's hope isn't there? And she really MEANS it and she really will match her ACTIONS and her WORDS.


CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HarryS:
<strong> Got am email from wife this morning....

"harry, don't do it. don't ask why. just don't do it."

I haven't responded to her and have no clue what to say. First internal response I had was "why" so I guess she knew that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Wife,

Your plea does not fall on barren ground, however, the days of not asking why are long past. At this time I need to not only ask why, I need a reply which is full of action and intention . If I do not ask why, I will ask who, what, where, when and how. Who do I have to turn to when my feelings are hurt and my heart is laid low who is there for me? What reason do I have to continue patiently waiting when no progress toward recovery is being made that I can see? Where am I supposed to turn for hope and comfort? When will the pain be over for me and when might I see some progress toward reuniting and being husband and wife again? and How am I supposed to justify allowing you to tear my heart out, string me along, and treat me so disrespectfully? How am I supposed to have any self-respect or dignity when I am allowing myself to be trampled by the one I once loved?

I do not want a divorce, nor have I ever wanted a divorce or to separate or to be apart even! I have wanted to be fearless and face our demons together and have the courage to change the things we must to mutually support and love one another. I am willing to do those things and start TODAY--and I have repeatedly asked if you would face our issues at my side, and you have repeatedly run away.

So I beg of you, if there is a reason not to do it today, TELL ME. I must ask why. If there is a reason, I will stay my hand, but it is in your power to stay it...I must ask WHY.

CJ

Your words are moving and I am considering almost complete plagiarism (if that's ok). I don't know though.

In some ways I feel that if I back down now I will have cried wolf and will in essence have turned in to a master manipulator like my WW. I said I was going to do this and if I don't then aren't I guilty of coercion? I mean even if she commits to recovery I feel that one day she might throw duress in my face.

Harry,

This is going to be a very weird post. So hang in there for a moment.

Let me ask you something, when the marriage was "going good" did she support you emotionally? Was she there when you struggled with things? Could you talk to her? Could you confide in her? Could she sense when you were down? Could she make you happy even when you were up?

Other than sex what was your marriage really like?
Is it a marriage you would want if you could have it today?
If it is not the marriage you would want, what would you want?
Has your W ever shown any capacity to do the things that you feel a good W could do?

I am very pro-marriage and I think you ought to listen to her. But, I think you need to answer these questions in your mind first. Then I think you need to ask her these questions or at least some of them and see if it occurs to her that you don't want what you had.

I suspect even if you do get the stuff done today at the lawyer, you can indeed stop the divorce if there is evidence that it merits stopping.

Just more stuff to think about since you don't have anything on your mind today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

HarryS,

First, you have my permission to copy word for word if it fits your heart and your situation.

Second, I do understand what you're saying,about giving a false ultimatum or "forcing" her to recover under duress, but may I speak freely? In my deepest soul, I do not believe you really want to divorce or are ready to divorce inside YOUR heart. What I mean is that I think there are still little parts of your heart that feel there are still things you could try or want to try...it's like there are still little pieces that have not yet given up.

It's a little nebulous to say it this way, but when you are really ready in your heart, you will know because there is kind of a peace within you. When I knew I was ready, I was very sad, and I "wished" that he wanted to try, but I could see that his behavior had been quite consistent for a long time and he really did not want to try. I knew in my innermost soul that I had been faithful, that I hadn't just "given up", that I had changed what I could in myself and my life and was willing to do more, that I had done all that could be done and that sometimes the other partner just isn't willing to participate.

Does that make sense?

It's a little like an out-of-body experience. You live through the hurt and pain and agony and tears for so long that you just feel more and more and more of yourself and your heart dying. Then one day it's like a calm. You just know inside that you are a litle more objective and not in that "hurt/needy" place, and that you accept it. Either your partner is going to join you in this healing journey, or you are going to go separate ways and heal yourself--but either way you are going to heal now and either way you are okay with it. Yep--you want them to come with you and go on the journey with you...but if they choose not to, you feel like you can accept it and recognize it as something you just can't change.

Sooo...do you understand what I mean? You aren't threatening her or giving her an ultimatum. It's coming more from a place of peace. "Dear wifey, I am moving on and healing now. If you want to move on with me and heal together I would like that more than anything. This means that I commit to repairing the things I did to hurt you--but it also means that you commit to repairing the things you did to hurt me. If you choose not to move on with me, today, then I accept that too. Yes, I will miss you, but you're free to make your own decision of your own free will. I am healing now. Are you healing with me?"

And do you see why I say I do not really think you are ready to divorce? It sounds like in your heart of hearts that you still have some hope and some things you want to or need to try before you are quite at that calm acceptance stage. I think, to be honest my friend, that you still love her and your heart is still entwined with hers. If that's the case, and you're honest with yourself and find that you do still love her and still have small bits of you wanting to try, then try. Do not used divorce as a weapon...use it as a doorway or a stepping stone.

In my life, I did file for divorce. Me--the last person on earth I thought would file. It was the saddest day, but at the same time it was like closing a door on a part of my life that was really hurting me beyond repair. Sad...yes...but I had tried everything, my heart knew it, and it was time.


CJ

my 2 cents worth:

I really like what CJ has to say.
I think she finally gave words to something I have been feeling all along - you are not compeletely ready to divorce. Close - very close.
As I have read through your posts, I was hesitant to say "plan B" or "get her to sign" or "plan A" and I could not figure out why I could not get a better feeling for you.
After all, Nature, who has also given you a lot of great advice, was saying "get her to sign, and move one".
And here I am - divorced. I have moved on. I am feeling a LOT better these days. So why couldn't I make that same suggestion to you?
My gut instinct said that you were not quite there yet - you still did not have that complete feeling that you had done everything you could. I think you have done everything you could BUT I don't know that you feel that way in your heart.
I am NOT suggesting that you stop the D process. I just really really like what CJ has to say. Actions. Your W needs to start doing something. Immediately (I have to admit, I laughed when she asked if you could schedule a 30 minute appt or could she just phone it in)
No more of this "I will start trying later" crap. She can not use DD as her excuse - she has no business supporting D throgh a divorce, when her own personal life is a mess.
You were right when you said "you can not give an hour a week to save your marriage?"
Harry - you are worth an hour a week. You are worth so much more than that.
One thought I had - and this may be a bad idea - but - If I understand things correctly, you still have to make an appointment with your L. Could this appointment be in about 3 days, and meanwhile you say something like "W - I have an appointment in 3 days. If you would like to show me what your detailed plan is before then, I would be hapy to look at it. But the appointment remins the same.
Just a thought.

I will continue to lift you up in prayer. I know how hard this is.
Wish you lived in Portland Oregon, I would leave a dozen chocolate chip cookies on your door step.

Hi Harry,

The last time I posted to you was several weeks ago now I think.I was telling you not to date your WW because she hadn't made any definitive actions toward saving the marriage.And now,here you are contemplating a D.

I have to agree with Nature.Stay on course and don't let your WW's small and inconsequential pleas alter your decision.Remember that ole MB adage: actions speak louder than words.

In my heart,I do not want a D either but it is the only choice I have so I am proceeding.My WH is comfortable with it mostly.I really think he wants to give it a shot out there in the world with the homewrecker and see what happens.He told my SIL that if it doesn't work out,he will come back begging and pleading.It's so nice to know that I mean that much to him that he's risking it all for a potential!

Anyway,point is,reading some of my posts it is obvious that this is never what I wanted to have happen in my life and that of my children,that I am sad beyone measure,that I wanted nothing more than to have the best marriage we could ever have but my WH fails to do anything and I have reached my limit.Like someone else mentioned,I find that I am a better person without my WH in my life,as he is now,than with him in it,hurting me.It is easy for you to fall back into the what if game and the emotion but it can destroy you.If your WW truly means to save your marriage or you mean as much to her as you should being her H then she will get off her fanny and ACT.If not,she is just as inert,confused and unsure about everything as before and all you will be doing is waiting,again.She is an adult and is now realizing the gravity of her actions.But the million dollar question is:will she make you and the marriage her priority?

She has to make that decision ON HER OWN.

Hang in there.

O

Thanks everyone for the support and insights. Well I didn't talk to the lawyer today, he never returned my calls...

Got a big suprise tonight. WW showed up at my door. My first thought was here she was trying to pull me back in and keep me from finalizing this. I figured she would use the same tool she used the last time SF. That was my first thought. She came in and we talked for a bit. Actually most of the talk was pretty nice. We talked about what lead to the affair and other things. The conversation was all over the place, but it settled down to her #1 issue and my #1 issue. Her's is having me move back in. She states that she cannot work on 'us' till we together and for the most part I agree.

BUT

My #1 is not about 'us'. It's about her and her commitment to me and our marriage. I need to feel that she will do anything and everything to make 'us' work. I need her to reattach to me emotionally. I need to see actions showing me that she really wants a mutually fulfilling relationship with me. I need to feel wanted and I need the rejection to stop. I need to see these things consistantly without a slide back to the emotionless void.

Well she chimes in at this point and says, "I will not have sex with you till you move home."

WTH! Ok granted sex would be great, after this long it would be awesome, but only as a part of the rest. Not as a tool to make me change my mind, but as an expression that we're gluing 'us' back together again as well as showing me that she cared enough about my needs.

To be honest I took insult to her comment, she thinks all I want is sex. If that was the case I wouldn't be hanging around her. The conversation degraded after that. With me telling her that she's holding back and she telling me that she refuses to be used.

ARRRRGHHH!!! Me? A user?

She left in the midst of the arguement after I told her my assumption of what she was there for (see above comment on manipulating me with SF) with her being insulted. I apoligized for my assumption, but the damage was done. She was offended.

Called me on her way home and the arguement continued. She stating that even if I move back home I shouldn't expect to have sex until she had all her needs met first.

I never mentioned sex. She's the one that brought it up. The more I think about this the more hacked off I get. She has an affair, has sex with someone else and I'm the one that stays sexually faithful and I'm the one that's a sex addict?

She knows how to push my buttons. And I feel really pushed right now.

CJ: Your a Wise woman yourself. I have felt that peaceful feeling before that I was doing the right thing, but WW always pulled me back in.

YES I still love her. Very much in fact, but I am so afraid of her and she's not giving me anything to calm my fears. Tonight's an example. I know she didn't come over here to get in an arguement with me and hurt me and get hurt herself. But she did hit me with that sexual rejection number and that really hurts, especially after her having an affair. I need to know that I'm still attractive to her in that regard and she keeps making me feel like I'm some kind of pervert.

womanoffaith5:

Maybe tomorrow will be different, but right now I just want to run and hide. Tonight I think if I knew where the judge lived I'd be knocking on his door to get him to sign off on these papers. I am so hurt and upset now that I'm not sure what to do. You know for a few minutes tonight I thought we were about to break through and fix this and now I'm just plain hurt again and angry to boot.

Octobergirl:

Thanks for checking back in. Yes I agree, she has some things to do on her own and hasn't (at least to my perception) addressed them. Her priority has always been her needs and what she wanted. My priority has mostly been her needs and what she wanted. I don't think she sees, or wants to see that to fix this and get her needs met from me she will have to meet some of my needs.


I need to know that I am wanted, needed and loved. Not just told but shown.

I need to know that I am the ONLY man in her life and that she really wants ME to be happy.

I need respect, affection and admiration.

I need openness. I don't want to have to grill her to find something out.

I also need sexual fulfilment. Not just on her terms. This seems to be a sore point for her and as such a sticking point for me. She feels that I will just use her, but I think I've proven to her that I'm not a user. I don't know. Maybe I should just forget about this one. Maybe I should drop this and try to work it out without.

UGH

Bad night

HarryS,

I'm so sorry you had a bad night. I'm so sorry you feel rejected and like this is hopeless.

I have a very few, short thoughts for you:

1) Did you know that actually marriage coaching can be done in 1 hour, 45 minute, or 30 minute increments? In fact, you can do marriage coaching live and in person, over the phone or even by email! And the cost is not unreasonable. If you'd like more detailed info, why don't you email me??

2) I do not think this situation is unresolvable. It was going down a good road and then you made an SF assumption and she made an SF assumption and you both got hurt and it spiraled downward. You got to your #1 need and she got to her #1 need! That's good, isn't it?? Once again, I think there are several approaches that could work out here: marriage coaching, mediating/negotiating, and/or an intercessor.

3) I highly, strongly, seriously and sincerely urge you to resist contacting your wife tomorrow and if you must, only speak to her via email. Take one day off and get your head straight. And if you are really ready to divorce, then why in the heck are you even THINKING of having SF with her or thinking that she might offer it to you??

4) I like the suggestion for setting an appointment with your lawyer in three days--this gives you a timeframe and sort of a deadline--motives some kind of movement--and won't allow your heart to be dragged around forever. If today is Tuesday, I suggest a Friday or Monday appointment in the afternoon (if possible).

Last but not least, I want to be clear that if yo do email me at my faithfulwifecj yahoo account, it will be for business purposes only to pass you the info about the marriage coaching.

((((((((((HarryS))))))))))

Don't lose hope! One way or another, it will be over soon.


CJ

CJ:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1) Did you know that actually marriage coaching can be done in 1 hour, 45 minute, or 30 minute increments? In fact, you can do marriage coaching live and in person, over the phone or even by email! And the cost is not unreasonable. If you'd like more detailed info, why don't you email me??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I've read that. I think that would be good after the initial hump, but right now I think more is needed than impersonal remote counseling. (and that wasn't a DJ)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2) I do not think this situation is unresolvable. It was going down a good road and then you made an SF assumption and she made an SF assumption and you both got hurt and it spiraled downward. You got to your #1 need and she got to her #1 need! That's good, isn't it?? Once again, I think there are several approaches that could work out here: marriage coaching, mediating/negotiating, and/or an intercessor. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, but the fact remains is that she want's it her way or the highway. That's been our problem. I've always allowed her to violate my boundries. You know the saying that you should always pick your battles? Well to her everything is a battle that should be won at all costs. She's admitted it before and would probably still admit it today. But she won't admit she has a control issue. Here's another rub. Why is it that SF seems to be the huge fly in the ointment? Maybe because she know she wasn't meeting my needs on this even before all these problems started occurring. The fact remains that today I feel that my needs are greater due to the BS's need to know that they are still attractive in that respect.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 3) I highly, strongly, seriously and sincerely urge you to resist contacting your wife tomorrow and if you must, only speak to her via email. Take one day off and get your head straight. And if you are really ready to divorce, then why in the heck are you even THINKING of having SF with her or thinking that she might offer it to you??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Second part first. I thought at first the reason she came over was to manipulate me back into indecision. The last time we had SF together (Jan) was when I filed for D. Only a day or two later she came over for a series of 3 nights. On the last night she initiated it. I totally waffled after that cause I thought that she was coming back to me. The time before that was October the day I moved out. So you see the pattern? It's easy to assume that's what's she's doing. But I was told in no uncertain terms last night that I was wrong. Still we've only had SF 2 times with each other since October and both times were in the midst of turmoil.

Now the first part. Today the anger still lingers. Not as much, but it's there. I want to be sure I'm doing the right thing here so I will not do anything till it subsides and I can reflect with a clear and balanced mind. This might happen in the next 30 minutes, or I might have to sleep on it another night. I have no intention of contacting her. I know the only thing I will get is pain.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 4) I like the suggestion for setting an appointment with your lawyer in three days--this gives you a timeframe and sort of a deadline--motives some kind of movement--and won't allow your heart to be dragged around forever. If today is Tuesday, I suggest a Friday or Monday appointment in the afternoon (if possible).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Saving room for the 11th hour reprieves..... I'm not sure about this. I'm not sure about the sincerity of 11th hour decisions. Part of me thinks that anything she does is just reaction and that she will regret such a hasty decision on her part.

I mean come on here. Why do I feel the beggar for wanting something that should never have been taken from me in the first place?

<anger subsiding> Sorry, I'm usually a bit more in control. I'm just outraged by the injustice of it all. (note outraged looks better in that line than miffed. Maybe miffed is too light a term. Ugh, too bad that's not all I have to worry about)

do not apologize for feeling and/or sounding outraged here! That is what we are here for!!
Far better to get that stuff out hee, instead of unloading on your WW.

Harry,

Have you thought to send your narrative of last night and your feelings, fears, and desires to her in a letter?? I would strongly recommend that you send her a letter or email with basically that post in it.

Why? Because I think it states your position, your fears, your love, and the reason this will end if nothing changes. It is really her call.

She had the affair, and forgive me but isn't she still seeing OM? And she does want it her way, WHICH IS JUST FINE as long as her way and your way are the same. Otherwise, you two would need to find OUR way.

But, send her this post instead of the letter you were going to send. It seems to explain your thinking, your response to her thinking, your fears, and love. At that point it is sort of all on the table.

Just a thought, hope it helps.

God Bless,

JL

The more I think about it the more confused I get. I mean there was a point last night that I really felt that it was all going to work out. Then later all that was replaced by pain, anger (pain mostly) and hopelessness.

BUT

I still remember that feeling that it was going to work out.

Am I asking for too much? Is what I want and need unreasonable?

And here's another fear..... what if we do build that bridge and a week, 2 weeks, 3 months from now I find myself on her side of the bridge and the bridge demolished? Yeah, I know.... it's a risk I take and one she takes as well. It's stuff like this that make you question if recovery is really worth it.

JL:

She states that she sent OM a NC letter on 7/9 though I didn't see it nor did she prove to me that she sent it. I asked her a week later if she had contact with OM and she said no, then followed it up asking me why I asked. I've told her before what I needed on the NC issue and she agreed at the time, but again...no action.

As far as sending her a transcript of my post on last night's thoughts and feelings, I'm not sure I should start contact till I get my bearings back. Last night's storm addled me a bit and I need to get back on course. I don't feel all that strong right now.

I'm just passing through and would like to add some thoughts.

Sounds like neither of you are ready for D. Sounds like the two of you still have love and a desire to make an attempt at recovery.

Why is it that she requires you to move home first before working on it? Why do you require her to work on it before moving home? Of the list of needs, what is the most important common need to each of you? Why can't you work on that?

If you move forward with D, you will only have unanswered questions. Are you willing to take that chance?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TurningPages:

I think both of our most basic needs is the same. Safety. I need to feel safe in knowing that she won't betray me again. I mean she's shown she's capable of it. I need to know that I'm the only man in her life and will be the only man in her life. I need to know that she cares about me enough to put her needs secondary.

She needs Safety as well. She needs to know that I won't abandon her and I'll be there when she needs me. I'm not exactly sure how I've made her doubt my commitment, but I'm sure my seeking a divorce doesn't help. I think on her side that she feels that if she jumps in with both feet she'll find the pool is empty. That I've bailed on her.

She doesn't want to work on anything until I move home. She states that she just can't do it and that we need to be together for anything to work. She's said a couple of times that she doesn't like it when I leave there to come home. It may be related to her fear of being abandoned. Part of me feels that she wants to reestablish control. Without a safe place for me to run and hide when I get hurt she will be more in control of the situation.

I need her to commit to a plan of recovery and show me (actions not words) the sincerity of her commitment. I need to know that she cares about me and my needs. The reason I need to see this is because she has told me many times before that she was working on it. I still remember her words as she went for her weekend trip with the OM, "I'm going to work on 'us' and need to get away to do it". It's a huge trust Issue for me.

I'm jumping in right now.

Did you ever review her NC letter? What was the plan, was she going to send it after you review it? Why does she seem so bothered about you asking about it?? YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW.

Remember, she just told you 10 days ago she was still with the OM??????

WHAT HAS CHANGED???????

To me, this is the critical issue...no matter that your heart feels otherwise...why stay with someone who continues to lie to you? If she said she would show you the letter, and then DID NOT FOLLOW THROUGH (consistent with her previous deception)....I don't know, how can you take her for being honest now?

Just my 2 cents.

I really want this to work for you....I am just trying to put myself in your position as I may be doing the same damn thing in the next few weeks...this actually helps me grow stronger in my conviction.

HarryS,

All of this IS very confusing, and inside yourself you do know what you want and what you need and what you need to do. I think what causes people to have such tension and grief in their life is often that they somehow allow themselves to DO what is against their nature. For example, in my life I am by nature a pretty steady, funny, fun-loving, pleasant, not-angry person. Yet toward the end of my marriage, I was so hurt by the continuing affairs and abuse that I became moody, all over the board emotionally, horrible to be with, nagging, sad, angry and just generally an unpleasant person. I was almost exactly the opposite of the kind of person I am and the kind of person I want to be!

HarryS, you are a smart, wise man. If you could take a step back, and if a friend of yours was going through what you're going through, you would be able to see that your requests are not unreasonable. You would be able to see that it is normal to have some bottomline things that you need to repair this. You would be able to see that acting out of pain and anger is not necessarily the way that your real nature is!

Does that make sense??

The more you align yourself with who you are and who you were meant to be and who you WANT to become, the better you will feel and the less tension you will feel about your decisions. At that point, you may feel sad that your W makes the choices she makes, but you will be being who you are supposed to be and who you ARE inside as a man, and you will feel that peace I was talking about.

BTW, I can DEFINITELY see the pattern that your W uses to pull you back in. My exH did similar things. He would make promises because that's what I wanted to hear, and I wanted to believe it so much that I kept going back. That was my issue, not his. I wanted to believe it so bad that I overlooked the obvious and when words didn't match actions, I "wished" it would change.

You know that definition of insanity, right? "Insanity is when nothing has changed and expecting different results." If nothing has changed, and if actions indicate that the person does not intend to change or want to change, then the results will pretty predictable be the same.

After a while I came to realize that I could be the person I was intended to be, and if my exH was sincere and serious about doing things differently, he could do it on his own and I'd see him behaving in a new way. If he could do it on his own, then it was probably a real and sincere change--otherwise it was most likely just a way to hoover me back in or tug on my heartstrings again.

My job is to focus on my side and be the person I am and become the woman I want to be! That's your job too, HarryS. You can not make your wife love you or treat you right or even care--but you CAN be the man you truly are and keep your focus on becoming who you want to be!

Calm yourself today. Gather yourself and your thoughts, and calm your hurt feelings. Remember who you are and what you want to be like, and be that man, Harry. Okay??


CJ

Nature:

I had told her last summer what I needed for the NC letter. I assumed that she remembered. I just found out on 7/2 that she was still seeing him. I asked her to send a NC letter, but didn't re-mention my needs for it. I have told her since then that I needed to see it and the proof that she sent it which I haven't got yet.

Personally, I do not know what the purpose of a NC letter is. I think it just provides a false sense of security to the BS. Simply, who is to say WS and OM won't continue to make contact? Yes, it is a first step towards recommitment.

But really, what is the underlying reason that WS and OM continue? What/why has WS continued with OM? If OM was that important, why hasn't she left you for him? What keeps her holding on to you? What is it about the OM that turns her away from you? Is it your pressures of divorce/recommitment driving her away from you? What do you have to offer her that would guarantee she never needs to visit any other OM?

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