Liar2,<p>I&#8217;m convinced that hol keeps coming back here to MB because he wants to open himself up to you again and have a happy marriage with you. But using the conscious mind to overcome deep emotional pain isn't easy for anyone. <p>Anyway, I think you&#8217;re on the right track. Hol wants the unvarnished truth and without it he won&#8217;t move forward. <p>I think you have a lot of courage.

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: hol ]</small>

"Puff" ???<p>Could that be the sound a balloon makes when it's slowly untied? Or are you blowing me across the room?<p>Anyway hol, it isn't easy to hit the right tone in these posts. I find it hard trying to say anything meaningful at all, and even more so to say it without sounding pompous.<p>Anyway, I gave it a shot.

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: hol ]</small>

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: hol ]</small>

I'm at a place I don't know what to do. This morning everything was fine and tonight H tells me I should have "the talk" with our son. I said I would (because I know his take on what's right and wrong has been muddied,) but that he probably knows more about being a boy going thru puberty than I do, and he said that I know enough because half the guys/boys I did could barely have been thru it themselves! He says I'm an expert. I was speechless.... He also says he is NEVER, EVER, no way going to trust me again. No f...... way! He says I ruined his life. And now he's middle aged (41) and too old to start over. Everything we've shared doesn't mean a darn thing anymore. <p>I've lost my hope and I don't know what to do. He says such awful, horrible things to me and then expects me to make love to him in the morning. I feel like I'm losing my mind.... I can't go on this way - but I don't want to lose him, either. It doesn't matter what I do or how I try to explain - I'm no good in his eyes and I never will be. And yet he says he still loves me - HUH? He says he doesn't want out because he gave his word and his word is everything - but he isn't willing to rebuild, either....<p>Any suggestions, people? I need help, bad!!!

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: hol ]</small>

Lost:
How well I can relate to what you are feeling right now. It is an unbelievably difficult situation to love someone so much and to have hurt them so much and then try so hard to make things right again. I really don't have any words of wisdom on what to do right now but I did want you to know that I am listening to your plea as well.

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: hol ]</small>

I bet ya I've read your replies ten or more times since you posted and I've digested the info, but am having a hard time applying.<p>Roscoe - you're right - I know that my H is the one that's lost and I am watching helplessly by the sidelines. I feel like I have done what you suggested in your first reply. I tell him to look at me - look at us - look at our lives - what's so terrible? We've come a long ways together. I'm a hard working partner who contributes much to the household, I'm a good mother - I know this is true. Maybe I haven't been the best wife in the past, although I tried awfully hard for the first 13 years. But I know I can be if he'd open up to the possibility. I'm attractive - which he thinks just makes it that much easier for me because I could find somebody else just like that. I say I don't want anybody else - but it just lands on deaf ears. He will not be open to the possibility of a happier future. He's stuck in the past. He wants to have experienced all the "fun" I did. He regrets marrying me and believing me and there's no way he's going to ever believe me again (his words). <p>I leave the room when the conversation turns bad - I tell him I'm not having this discussion with you. And it probably does work temporarily. Things are "fine" in the morning as usual, but when he comes home from work -- like today -- I can tell instantly that he's in another mood. And since I can tell so quickly - I have this terrible habit of asking questions. And there seems to be no in-between for me. I either badger him with questions he doesn't want to answer or I don't say anything at all.<p>I asked him tonight if there was ONE thing that I could do to make restitution. If there was anything I could do to prove to him that he was the one for me and that he makes me whole - but HOL was right - he wants me to be what I said I was. He did mention that it might be easier if our marriage hadn't had any blips - which it did - so that just makes him think I'm just aching to fall back into my old ways. This is so NOT true - but it doesn't matter because he doesn't believe me. <p>I'm not sure I liked the comment you made, though, HOL. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> "Roscoe"
"And your kissing another man is certainly a betrayal I&#8217;ve never faced". (But, understandably, that doesn&#8217;t appear to bother him<p>"Response"
i'll bet it does bother him but it may be understandable why it happened now. (see above)
<hr></blockquote><p>What does that mean exactly? I didn't fall prey to another man because I was still a S*** if that's what you mean. I did fall under the guise that somebody thought I might actually have something else to offer - a feeling I wasn't getting at home at the time - even though in hindsight - I think - YEA - probably just wanted sex. Just like all guys..... And my H feels like an idiot???<p>I'm about at the end of my rope, guys. Liar2 - how have you hung in there for so long? I'm seriously considering letting him go - letting him find out what he thinks he's missing out on. It's not what I want and I don't think it's what he wants, either - but when he takes away all hope for a better future - I can't help but think - what's the use? The kids are beginning to notice that things aren't quite right. They overhear discussions and they feel the tension. I drink lately to excess - smoke like crazy - haven't been to church in who knows how long - don't feel like I'm doing right by them. I want to be around for them - but yet I still indulge in self-destructive behavior because I can't deal with the reality. <p>I had an awful thought the other day - a radio show I listen to mentioned the passing away of a celebrity and the words they said about this person following his death. The anchor of the show said that those were the words he wanted people to use when he passed - I can't remember what they were exactly - but they were good. I could only think - GOD - I hope I don't die tomorrow because I wouldn't want my H to have to write my obituary or eulogy - what would he say?. And then I pictured my mom and my family doing it and I saw my H just shaking his head - saying "NO - you didn't really KNOW her!!!" It was awful.........<p>How do I fight this feeling like I should bail? I read this book called, "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay," and one of the things in there was the question "If God or some other omniscent being said it was okay, would you feel tremendously relieved and have a strong sensse that finally you could end the relationship?" I can't help but thinking H would say YES to this question and I can't get past it... In fact - it seems like every question in the book I could answer YES for him and NO for me...<p>Not a good day as you guys can probably tell.... Been good and bad, and good and bad again actually since I last posted....

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: hol ]</small>

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

<small>[ November 20, 2002, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: hol ]</small>

<small>[ November 13, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: Roscoe ]</small>

What if I'm at the point where I want to force a decision on his part? I only see two options for him - either decide to work together and try to save our marriage OR decide to quit. He already knows I would do anything for another chance - but he's not willing... I can't imagine life without him, but I also can't imagine living like this for much longer, either.

Should we separate? Does that ever help? He's just so intent on thinking his life is no good and never will be and all because of me. It's quite a burden to bear... Yes, HOL, I realize none of this is his fault and I know it doesn't seem right for me to be asking him to make a choice. But what are the alternatives? Keep living in limbo/hell for the rest of our lives? At some point, doesn't somebody have to take a stand???

We got into it pretty bad last night (and tonight, too) and he just can't stop asking questions about things he knows the answers to better than I do - he's the one that read everything - to me it just seems like it happened to somebody else... and boy, if I answer something wrong...

I will always be a liar and a slut. You are what you do and nothing I say will change his mind. Nothing I do will instill that urge to trust me again. He says I'm all out of chances.

What am I supposed to do??

Should I bail? Let him have his freedom and the chance to live a more exciting life? I just don't know anymore... I feel like I'm going crazy.