The first date having coffee, during the day?, and the second one - evening, dinner skiped?, your home... hmmm... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

And you wonder why...? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Many men, under the same circumstances, would do the same EVEN if they don't feel 'so'...
Who wouldn't like to response like a man made for any 'challenge'?

If he's the same in any other circumstance, you know what to do.
Take it or leave it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

By the way, I like more that kind of men than those "patient" ones but having the SAME 'goal'... With this one - no waste of time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
(Of course I prefer the third kind of men. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Now I'm (more) serious:
It's always been and it'll always be men (and women <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) who are patient enough to get what they want (IF they want) and vice versa...

It just depends on - what they really want..

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

CJ,

I'm just gonna give you an honest manchilds opinion.(Good God I hope I'm not one)

Now don't get me wrong, I for the most part fall close to LordsLadys situation. W was the 15 1/2 year old and I was the one that waited for months.(Not the typical horney teenager. I even had moral then)

Now thinking of it from a mans perspective, willing to take all the punches that I'll get for it, I would only act like that if I was out for a piece of *ss.

My advice is wait and see what you get back from him before expressing your values. I say that because if he was looking for you to put out and you didn't, you may not have to worry about that third date.Sorry as it sounds, it could show you a lot about him. So you won't have to worry about this situation anymore, you continue on and see what comes your way next. But it may also show you that sex isn't all he wants. Just something that you drive him to want <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Rest assured, we are not all like this. Some of us have morals of our own.

OK now a little in his deffense! Someone did mention"what is he doing at your house on a second date" I know, no excuse but could be a little miss leading. Also, I believe he may also be new to the dating scene(I know, no excuse either) but if he was married for a long time, he may be used to bringing up sex all the time to get his now X interested. So It may just be habit for him and you need to throw in that learning curve so he see's that he needs to start all over again.

Back to MB Basics. He doesn't know that SF comes from meeting other EN's and building up the LB. He needs to be taught this.

Take it slow. the outcome is going to be determined by both your actions.

WIWH

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: WishI WereHome ]</small>

Sex on the 2nd date?

If THAT'S how they are in 2004 - I can only date a man ONCE - to attain and maintain my "revirginized Laura Lee" title!

Boy, I better make sure they take me someplace really nice on the first date... since I won't be going out with them again.

lol

Laura

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HarryS:
<strong> Whoa! (rides in to the defense of Men)

Why is it Men that only expect it? Sheesh.... such sexism!

...What's more disturbing to me on this thread is the preconceived ideas that guys are always the sexual aggressors. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Easy there, John Wayne! EEEEEEEAAAASSSSYYYYY! I don't think anyone was saying that men "in general" are more sexually aggressive then women. Good god, if that were the case I'd suggest watching "Sex in the City"! You'll get a lesson real quick on just how aggressive chicks can be nowadays!! But, since this is MY thread, and the aggressor in MY instance was a male of the species, I think folks are suggesting that HE (my former date) was the sexual aggressor and possibly a ManChild in his behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In today's world of desperate people I've found mixed meaning in the old adage, "Women give sex to get love and Men give love to get sex" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, Mr. Wayne, I have always had a big problem with this statement, and here's why. I think it is a cop out for men who want sex to say that they give "love" in order to get it. BTW, I also think it is an equal cop-out for a woman to give sex in order to get love. If that were a valid statement, then I would have given in to my date's continuous sexual requests and innuendos in order to "get" his love--wouldn't I??

I think a man should give love because he values the woman and respects her--unrelated to sex. I think a woman should give sex because she values the man and communicates that value in a tangible way. I think couples should love because they CHOOSE to--not to "get" something. And I think couples should have sex because it's the healthy expression of a healthy love--not because it's the second date now and I ain't gettin' any younger!

So saddle up, Pilgrim. Your old adage has been called out for a showdown at high noon. Lock and load--put on your spurs and shine up your badge--cuz we're meeting at the Coral.


CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Belonging to Nowhere:
<strong> The first date having coffee, during the day?, and the second one - evening, dinner skiped?, your home... hmmm... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

And you wonder why...? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow! I can not even fathom this post. You can not POSSIBLY be implying that his sexually inappropriate behavior was because I asked him to meet at my house, could you??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Our first date was AT NITE at the coffeehaus down the street from my home. I work until 8pm, so we met after work for a quick chat and mostly an icebreaker. The next date was also at night--like I said at 8:30pm at my home. Okay, I agree maybe not the best judgment, but remember this is a guy who I saw for like a year at my D's school, so I didn't feel afraid of him and I knew of his kids and interacted with him at parent-functions at school (ie., PTA). I get off work at 8pm, and I'm usually pretty tired, so I thought we'd just kick back and watch a movie or the Olympics. Oh...and BTW...I did mention that OUT LOUD to him...that those were my intentions. I though we could either wait until I was off work (Mon-Tues-Wed) or do something sort of casual and relaxing over the weekend to see each other sooner. Dinner was not skipped-- we specifically PLANNED to each eat dinner with our own families (I have a 1 hr. break at work from 5-6p), and once again, this was communicated OUT LOUD and agreed upon.

I guess that no matter how he behaved somehow it would be my "fault" huh? I could not disagree more or more strongly!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>It just depends on - what they really want.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep. In my instance, a relationship built on a spiritual and emotional connection--knowing someone intimately. In his instance--a quick piece of a$$.


CJ

(Kinda pissed now)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulNewCJ:
You can not POSSIBLY be implying that his sexually inappropriate behavior was because I asked him to meet at my house, could you??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He misunderstood your invitation, obviously. Otherwise, he would respect it and you telling him being tired to go somewhere else, and he should use that time to know you better (spiritualy I mean. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Maybe!

And maybe he'd act the same if you were anywhere else...

CJ, I don't approve his behavior, just say that invitations to our home even at a latter date mean invitation for bed for many men.
And, as you, I'd be frustrated/dissapointed too, if he were not invited for 'that purpose'...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, I agree maybe not the best judgment</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You must agree with me too that it's a higher probability they will misunderstand us if inviting them to a private place (as our home) BEFORE they really KNOW us... (before having social activities together outside, before builting emotional and spiritual connecton...)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh...and BTW...I did mention that OUT LOUD to him...that those were my intentions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He 'listened' what he wanted not what you were saying.
Also, he doesn't know women (no all women say no and mean yes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess that no matter how he behaved somehow it would be my "fault" huh?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, never thought so! Not that way you got my words anyway...
He just might misunderstood your invitation but it does NOT excuse his behavior!

CJ, I understand YOU!, just trying to understand (guessing!) his acting here... not to excuse him, but for you not to dump him just for this, for he might be different than this poor behavior showed...
And maybe not, but anyway you'll know that soon, after talking to him about your feelings during&after that night...

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 06:18 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

double, sorry

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 05:58 AM: Message edited by: Belonging to Nowhere ]</small>

CJ
A lot of good chat has developed from your thread. I'm appreciative of being able to read everyone's comments and gain insight for what might be a road I'll travel down in the future. Your posts are always articulated so well! But go back and re-read LostHusband 's post. He brought up the same question that Belonging to Nowhere did...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> from LH : Now Miss CJ I have a question for you. Why was this man at your house with your kids on the second date anyway?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So maybe there IS something to that, at least in a guy's way of thinking...

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>

CJ,

It really doesn't matter why the man was at your home for the second date--be it to watch TV, have dinner, or so that your kids could spend time together--

Nobody--be they male or female should 'expect' to have sex with someone just because they *invited* them into their home--for coffee, dinner, desert or whatever--be it the first, second, third or even the one hundedreth date--even if you've had sex with them on the eleventh date they shouldn't just expect it on subsequent dates--

Giving yourself sexually, is a choice--each and every time--even within marriage--it continues to remain a choice--but, within the confines of marriage, it should be a choice to want to give yourself more often than not--but even then it should not be something that is 'expected'

It's a gift to the other person--your *wanting* to give of yourself in a way that expresses your love for them in the most intimate way--

And within the confines of marriage--it is a gift that no spouse should outright reject--(unless there are extenuating circumstances) and even then
it should be done in a respectful manner--and with a raincheck for another time--

“””It really doesn't matter why the man was at your home for the second date--be it to watch TV, have dinner, or so that your kids could spend time together—“””

TR – Love ya and respect ya but have to disagree with you on this one. I’m in no way implying that CJ should bear any blame for the events that unfolded and yes sex is a choice every time.

My original reason for stating the question was that I disagreed with and still disagree with her decision to bring a 2nd date home to the kids. I stick by that one CJ, keep the young ones out of it for a while.

That being said I’m going to try hard to make a point without sounding like a total *&^hole. CJ you know I love you, right. And we’ve been having those conversations about my flirtatious personality. Well someone who lives to the West of me has a little flirtation in her game as well. That coupled with the cozy invitation can lead one to have unrealistic expectations of the evening. Perception is reality. Totally not your “fault” but once you know the problem you are responsible for the cure.

I also think it’s very important to realize the difference between friendly relationships and dating. I believe that there are certain progressive expectations that arise in a dating environment that don’t exist in a friendship.

TR – Flame Away…….

LostHusband,

– Love ya and respect ya but have to disagree with you on this one. I’m in no way implying that CJ should bear any blame for the events that unfolded and yes sex is a choice every time.

TR--Which was my point--I'm not disagreeing she faultered in judgement inviting the man over on the second date--as she really doesn't know him--
just because you see someone at a function on many occassions doesn't mean they should be trusted in your home--

and I think we can agree on that--

but she did--and even though she did--it doesn't matter what the reason--he was wrong to 'expect' that it would lead to sex--and I think we agree on that point as well--

Which is really the point--it shouldn't matter what the reason was for her invite--he should not have *expected* sex was going to be the outcome--and certainly after she told him NO--he should have respected that--and changed his attitude--or left her home--

TR We do agree, I guess I just misunderstood your statement and we took different paths to the same conclusion.

Now CJ, get over here young lady TR & I want to talk with you..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Now seriously, this is a growing and learning process. So take what you've learned from this and continue to reach upward until you finally grab the clouds.

Luvs ya, short legs.....

Belonging to Nowhere, Avondale, LH, and TR:

All I can say is "I'm stunned." I am STUNNED and I am just not going to take this. I work 11am to 8pm standing on my feet, and when I come home I am tired and want to sit down and veg out. Yes, I agree it was not the best judgment to have the guy to my house on the second date (BTW, son was at his GF's house, and Steph was with a friend playing. Both met him BRIEFLY to shake hands as he left or they left.) I communicated to him clearly and OUT LOUD--I did not make him read my mind, guess, or throw "hints"--that I would be working, I would be tired, and would he like to just kick back and chill? I even discussed OUT LOUD that I would not be buying wine or alcohol of any kind and that it would probably involve drinking a soda and watching the Olympics.

There was NO communication, indication, flirtation, or "leading on" that I expected anything other than to drink a soda and watch the Olympics or a movie. We agreed on times of 8:30pm to 10:30pm since I have kids, he has kids, and I had work the next day too.

Do you all really mean to tell me that he has the right to expect sex, to continuously bring it up, to continue to attempt to grab and touch, and to pursue it even after I back away and say "no" BECAUSE I INVITED HIM TO MY HOME FOR TWO HOURS AFTER WORK??? Do you honestly meant to tell me that if I had only communicated it more clearly, he would have understood and respected it?? I say BULL!!! I can not think of any way I could have been more clear, and STILL he persisted in continuing and being insistent!!

I can not believe it!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Apparently if a woman invites a man to her home for 2 hrs. of drinking soda and watching the Olympics, it means he has the right to EXPECT to sex, to paw her, and to be a jerk! AND IT'S HER FAULT because OBVIOUSLY inviting a man to the house equals sex!!!!

How could I have missed it????

(Shaking head) UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

I'm sorry, but I do not buy it. If the world's sexiest man (aka, LH) were to invite me to his house after work for soda and watching the Olympics, do you know what I would expect?? SODA AND WATCHING THE OLYMPICS!!! MAYBE.... holding hands...MAYBE!! And if I did try to kiss him and he backed away, I GUAR-AN-TEE that I would stop immediately and not try again and sure as heck not press the matter!!

I'm not prude here, and I'm not utterly against being bold and making a move if the situation is right, but I SURE AS SHOOTING would not continue once there was a "no". And HE did and I sure as sh*t am not to blame for "inviting him to my house."


CJ

Note to all men out there: If a woman invites you to her house IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN YOU CAN HAVE SEX WITH HER!!!!

I've read this thread with interest, thinking about how we all have different expectations and experiences. I am having a hard time fitting in to the dating scene because of my religious beliefs about sex outside of marriage, and just because of the type of man I would be looking for. I don't think it is that difficult to find people to date, especially going out in downtown Denver or to parties like I enjoy doing, but it is finding high quality men that is the issue, and finding men that share my morals and try to live them out in their lives.

I LOVE sex. I can't wait to have it again if I ever re-marry. But I know that it is God's will and in my best interest for me to follow the rules on this one. I have had two relationships after my divorce, and I broke my own value system because of lust or wanting to show my love or whatever. I know God won't bless a relationship that I am in where I flaunt his rules, so I broke off both of them, and am trying to get to a point where I am strong enough to be in a relationship that can turn serious without me going against my morals.

And CJ, I don't think the posters were saying you were asking for sex by inviting the man to your house, but just that it MAY have been a part of what he was thinking. It doesn't sound like this guy is someone you want in your life. I had a friend who constantly wanted to talk about sex and personal things and would shift any e-mail conversation we had to things that just weren't appropriate. I started feeling like he only wanted to talk to me on a sexual level, so had to scale back our friendship because I felt uncomfortable. (Even though he was sexy, and it was flattering, I knew it wasn't right.)

I'm 34, and I know few Christian singles, so I have no idea what the dating culture is for us at there. I think you have valid questions. Good luck!

FaithfulNewCJ,

I think your reading what we've said--at least what I've said WRONG!!


NO!! He does NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO EXPECT SEX!!

NOR

does he have a right to continually bring it up *even IF it's what he expected* and YOU SAID NO!!

Please RE-READ what I wrote--

but she did--and even though she did--it doesn't matter what the reason--***he was *wrong* to 'expect' that it would lead to sex***--and I think we agree on that point as well--

Which is really the point--it shouldn't matter what the reason was for her invite--***he *should not* have *expected* sex was going to be the outcome--and certainly after she told him NO--he should have respected that--and changed his attitude--or left her home--

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: ThornedRose ]</small>

Do you all really mean to tell me that he has the right to expect sex,
This is two different things. Rights and expectations.
He does not have a right to expect sex.
But he may expect it (in some twisted way) because this lady he knows from “around school” invited him over to her house at night.

I can not believe it!!!!!!!! Apparently if a woman invites a man to her home for 2 hrs. of drinking soda and watching the Olympics, it means he has the right to EXPECT to sex, to paw her, and to be a jerk! AND IT'S HER FAULT because OBVIOUSLY inviting a man to the house equals sex!!!!
No one said he has a right to expect his and no one said he has a right to do any of this.

If the world's sexiest man (aka, LH) were to invite me to his house after work for soda and watching the Olympics, do you know what I would expect?? SODA AND WATCHING THE OLYMPICS!!! MAYBE.... holding hands...MAYBE!! And if I did try to kiss him and he backed away, I GUAR-AN-TEE that I would stop immediately and not try again and sure as heck not press the matter!!
Huh? You were invited over for “SODA AND WATCHING THE OLYMPICS!!! “, not hand holding and kissing too!
Also, you seem to have your head screwed on fairly straight and have a good set of values. So you might not expect more but this guy might expect more.

I'm not prude here, and I'm not utterly against being bold and making a move if the situation is right, but I SURE AS SHOOTING would not continue once there was a "no". And HE did and I sure as sh*t am not to blame for "inviting him to my house."
Bu the point is that you DID invite him into your house for whatever reasons. He seems to;
1 – have misinterpreted your intentions
2 – doesn’t care about your intentions and only wanted in your pants

Note to all men out there: If a woman invites you to her house IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN YOU CAN HAVE SEX WITH HER!!!!
Got news for you. To some women and some men an invitation to their house is exactly an invitation to have sex.

The process of “dating” is to getting to know each other, their likes and dislikes and what is appropriate/not appropriate. If you put your boundaries down and they get crossed, then go on to the next person. If you are “okay” the boundaries get “tested” or crossed and think it was a misunderstanding, try again.

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulNewCJ:
<strong> Yes, I agree it was not the best judgment to have the guy to my house on the second date!![/b] </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was exactly my point. Thank you for seeing that.

Now calm down..... Breathe...... Relax...... You know me dear and if you think I'm pointing a finger at you and saying YOU SCREWED UP, you're wrong, I'm doing nothing of the sort.

But I do want you to take off the gloves for a moment and instead of starring out the window look into the mirror. You and I have talked about all this stuff before, only the roles were reversed. Remember I verbalized to those home town girls and yet they wanted more. Was it my fault? NO.... However it is up to me to ensure that I don't put myself in that compromised position again........

Chill.......... Go above 9,000', I think they are suppose to have snow up there.....

Hugs,


Billy

PS.... So if I come over to watch the olympics do I need to bring a ladder?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulNewCJ:
<strong>Note to all men out there: If a woman invites you to her house IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN YOU CAN HAVE SEX WITH HER!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And here I was starting to think that when my lady friend - the one I am so obsessed with - invited me over to her apartment to help her out with something, what she really wanted was to have sex! Here I was starting to think it had been foolish of me to believe that she wanted what she said she wanted! And what's more, I was starting to think that there was something wrong with me because my intentions in going over there were to help her out, so that it never even occurred to me to put any kind of moves on her! Thanks for setting me straight, CJ.

Let's see... How many times in the last few months have I been in the homes of single women - alone with them! - with no thought of any...er...libidinous activity? How many times have I had single women in my home alone with me? I don't know. But I dare say that none of them had any more uncommunicated expectations than I did.

Yeah, I know, there are no doubt plenty of incredibly self-absorbed people out there who think that if the world doesn't revolve around them, then at least it should. And there are plenty of short-sighted people out there who have more interest in a tawdry fling than in a lasting and mutually-fulfilling relationship built on love and respect. I know this, but that doesn't mean I can understand these people. And I've got quite a few friends who are fifteen to twenty years younger than I am whose actions and values demonstrate a lot more maturity than the soap-operatic conduct of the people I keep hearing about in these dating threads. Where do y'all find them?

Why should it be so unreasonable to expect a man to act like a gentleman, or a woman to act like a lady?

Maybe I am getting old...

On another subject, I freely admit that I am not a parent and thus may not have a very solid perspective, but I don't understand why, at their age, CJ's kids need to be "protected" from her dating life. They are old enough, and have seen enough, to understand the situation. If they've got a problem with her dating, that's one thing. Some kids take it badly if a parent even thinks about dating, but others actually encourage such activity. And note that by dating, I am referring here to the good old-fashioned everything-is-above-board type of dating which one would want to model for his or her children, as opposed to the sleeping-around kind of dating which certain adult children seem to expect...

Darn, I'm not only getting old, I'm turning into an acerbic curmudgeon...

Okay all,

Taking deep breaths...

Taking more deep breaths....

Thinking peaceful thoughts..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I guess I am still somewhat in shock that some folks here on this board seem to think it is acceptable to say, "Well, he misunderstood your invitation so it's understandable why he had the expectation of sex and treated you disrespectfully. If he UNDERSTOOD he would have treated you respectfully." No it's not!! I sincerely can not fathom that. Maybe he's just a lech with a sexual addiction, and no matter how often I said "no" he wouldn't take it for an answer. Maybe he's an immature ManChild and only thinks of women as sex-objects and believes he can TAKE whatever he wants. Maybe his belief system is so messed up that he equates sex with love.

Now, GDP, I have to tell ya, I LOVE what you had to say and how you said it. Frankly, I appreciate the way you expressed it, and it hit near to my heart and MY way of thinking, so I'd like to review a few highlights:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:
...Here I was starting to think it had been foolish of me to believe that she wanted what she said she wanted! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">DING! DING! DING! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> You win the award. When I want sex, it will sound very much like this, "I love you and would like to invite you into my bedroom" and knowing me it may be just that blunt too! haha! I am an articulate, intelligent woman, and when I want something, I am perfectly capable of telling someone in such a way that it is not too puzzling. You will not need your decoder ring! If I say I'd like to get together to have a cup of coffee, that it what I want. If I have a little crush on you, I will say so. If I feel close to you, I will say so. If I think a boundary has been crossed I will say so. It has been my experience that wanting what I say I want is SO MUCH EASIER on everybody.

NOTE TO MEN: If a woman says she wants to watch a movie with you, she wants to watch a movie with you. If she says "Want to watch a movie and make out a little?" THEN she wants to watch a movie and make out a little.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Let's see... How many times in the last few months have I been in the homes of single women - alone with them! - with no thought of any...er...libidinous activity? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yet again, DING-DING-DING you win the prize. I have been in the homes of single male friends and acquaintances--even alone with them--to do work, to watch a football game or show, to arrange a yard sale, to discuss a book, to talk, to drink a soda, and to meet new pets. None of these activities included the thought that I was allowed to have sex because I was in their home!

Maybe it's just me, but when I go to someone's home and when I invite someone to my home, I see it as an opportunity to see them in their own comfortable setting, to find out more about them, and to share their life a little with them. I can honestly say I have never, ever even once thought of a home invitation an entitlement to sexual thoughts OR ACTIONS!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>And there are plenty of short-sighted people out there who have more interest in a tawdry fling than in a lasting and mutually-fulfilling relationship built on love and respect. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen to that. Apparently this fella was after more of the "tawdry fling" category. Today, after I formulated my WTFS statement ("when you___, I think___, I feel___, so I'm going to ask____") I spoke to him and told him that when he came to the house and made continuous comments about sex and the bedroom and trying to touch, that I thought it was inappropriate and inconsiderate, and that I felt under-valued, uncomfortable, and disrespected. I told him that did not work for me, as I was looking for a longer-term, mature, healthy relationship and not just a quick piece of a$$ (yes, I used those words), and that if that was what he wanted I was not the girl for him. His response was, "That's too bad, because I don't want a relationship without sex. Bye then I guess." AARRGGHH!!

So apparently 10 down and 20 to go!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Where do y'all find them? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, they are all over! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I found mine at my D's school by asking if I could sit next to him. Others were found at a coffeeshop, ExpressoDate, set up by friends, etc. Where do you find people who prefer a long-term, mature, healthy, intimate relationship and not a ONS??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">[qb[Why should it be so unreasonable to expect a man to act like a gentleman, or a woman to act like a lady?[/qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See?? That's my question! I realize it's the year 2004 and that there are going to be jerk and b*tches out there, but why wouldn't I expect a gentleman to treat me in a gentlemanly way? Why wouldn't I hold myself to a lady-like standard? I'm sorry, but being horny is no excuse for behaving poorly--just exercise self-control!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>On another subject, I freely admit that I am not a parent and thus may not have a very solid perspective, but I don't understand why, at their age, CJ's kids need to be "protected" from her dating life. They are old enough...to understand the situation.

Some kids take it badly if a parent even thinks about dating, but others actually encourage such activity. And note that by dating, I am referring here to the good old-fashioned everything-is-above-board type of dating which one would want to model for his or her children, as opposed to the sleeping-around kind of dating which certain adult children seem to expect...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, GDP, you and I think very much alike on this topic too. I do not think it is wise for my children to become emotionally involved or attached to a man I'm dating until there is reason to believe it is a stable relationship. BUT!...my kids are 17yo and 15yo and both in the age to date themselves. I spoke with both kids before I even considered dating to see if they were okay with it, and not only did they SAY--they ACTED like they were ready. As you mentioned, GDP, my thought was that if I demonstrated proper dating techniques to my kids, they would see that I was putting my money where my mouth is--living it, not just preaching it to them! Furthermore, I would expect my son to bring a girl to our house and let me meet her (as in shake her hand)--why would I not expect that it was reasonable to bring a date home and let him meet my kids (as in shake their hand and say "hello").

That is the way I have conducted myself in a way so that my kids could COPY the way that they have seen me act, and be behaving well! Isn't that part of the idea of parenting--demonstrating good behavior?? I have purposely chosen to conduct everything in my life in a transparent way--wide open for them to see all (good and bad, yucky and miraculous)--so they can see for themselves that people make mistakes, what forgiveness and serenity look like, what healthy relationships look like, and how to act! Gee--bear in mind that my children have only seen what an abusive relationship looks like, and that is NOT the model I want them using in their own relationships!!


CJ

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Note to all men out there: If a woman invites you to her house IT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN YOU CAN HAVE SEX WITH HER!!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Automatic - of course not, but the odds are certainly better <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> than if the woman does not invite the man to her house on one of the first dates. You don't have to like or agree with it, but inviting a man to your house will give some men the message that sex is a possibility. Getting upset about it won't change that reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was expecting that 42yo, divorced dating would be more mature and experienced then 20yo dating. I was expecting at least one or two dates just to get to know if we have the potential to get along,; then I'd start to feel a little "Woohoo!" and he would feel "Woohoo" for me; then we go to more serious dates like he'd take me to dinner or to a concert/show; then we'd hold hands and kiss; then he'd be a gentleman and let me take the lead on moving any further. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is fine, but just keep in mind that this is YOUR idea of dating. Not everyone will agree with your pace, and that might mean they are not suitable dates for you.