“””Please don't think that I don't appreciate that.”””

Who are you to tell her how to think? Why not just tell her you appreciate her apology.

“””I am assuming you want a better relationship between us for the sake of the children and I would like to have that too.”””

Again, who are you to know her thoughts? Why not just tell her that you want a better working relationship for the sake of effectively co-parenting your children.

“””I made mistakes, some I am aware of and have apologized to you for, some I am unaware of because if you did tell me I didn't hear you, and maybe some I wasn't aware of and you didn't tell me.”””

To me this is saying “It’s your fault for not telling me”.

“””I would like to put it all out in the open, between us, my part and yours. I am prepared to honestly answer any questions you have about me and would like the same from you.””””

I believe that if you persistently ask the same thing she will loose interest in communicating.

“””The boys will not hear any of it from me, as far as I am concerned they would not even have to know we talked.”””

She doesn’t trust you.

“””One short general sentence does not work for me.”””

Again, who are you to dictate the rules of conversation? This sounds controlling to me.

Jeff I really believe that if you want to get the answers that you seek that they are not going to come this easy. First off, I don’t believe that she’s agree to such a conversation right now and if she did I have a feeling that within your 1st couple of questions (Jeff going in for the kill) the conversation would be over. I do believe that you have the opportunity/ability to open up the lines of communications that will lead to your desired answers but that it will take some time, patience, and careful thought. With all that said, I stick by my earlier reply to this thread.

DJ,
Sorry for misinterpreting your desire - or should I say, lack thereof for reconciliation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Don't know if it's too late, but I thought your last response was kind of confusing - all the aware, not aware stuff, etc.
How about just something like this:

"XW, I do appreciate that you are apologizing to me, I know that isn't easy. I just don't know that I can honestly accept your apology right now. I have not really made peace with everything or come to a place of forgiveness yet, and part of that may be because I don't have all the answers I feel I need. I just would like to have all the information out there in front of me, so I can truly deal with it. I would like to accept your apology, and I will work on that, but right now, with the information I have been given, I am just not quite to that place yet. If you would like to talk about it, let me know what I can do to make you comfortable enought to do that.

OK, so that was a little long, but you get the gist...

Okay. How about this:
Let me know when you can talk to me. I will do whatever I can to make you as comfortable with that as possible.


Not sending the message I accept or appreciate- because truthfully I don't, no blow it out you a$$- what I would really like to say, just I'm done until you want to get real.

Well, when it comes down to it, if you can't say it honestly, then you probably shouldn't say it ( I mean about appreciating her apology). So, maybe that is the best way to go - it might just be the best you can do right now.
If, down the road, you decide you want to accept her apology, you can always tell her then.
I think forgiving is one of the hardest things we ever have to do in this world. So is not forgiving... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Well, I went with that one. May be counterproductive but its still probably better than blow it out your a$$.

I'd expect her to come back with something to the effect that you're still not listening because she told you atleast 3 times yesterday she didn't want to talk to you.

I don't expect her to come back at all. She said her piece and really dosen't give a rats a$$ how I feel about it. Same old thing. From her view point I expect her to feel completely absolved.

Hey Deafjeff:

I'm not going to put any quotes up and respond but please allow an observation from a guy in very similar shoes. I tend to be "radically" honest which was a problem in my particular M; so if I hit a nerve; it is completely unintentional.

1. After reading posts with your responses and showing your WxW's response; I am going to agree with FaithHopeLove (God bless her!) that there is still something there between you two! I am not sure what, or how much, but definitely something! Can I suggest that you consider your true, ultimate desire one more time and if you have any desire to reconcile; by all means man; go for it! If emotions remain and you don't go for it; you will carry that regret the rest of your life! (And so will she!)

2. I believe that the only way any of us can tell when it's truly over is when we see and/or talk to the other person; and there is simply no emotion at all one way or the other. In other words; "the party has ended". So if she is still tripping your trigger, positively or negatively; there are still emotions present! (And vice-versa). Just look inward w/o worry of what any of us may think and be honest with yourself.

I am not suggesting that you go and talk with her about reconciliation (unless you want to) just recognize that she remains important enough to you to stimulate an emotion! (And again vice-versa).

JMHO

FR

Fishracer,

I'm with you on the radical honesty thing. I tend to do it to a fault. No nerve hit.

As for #1, I can't say that the thought hasn't passed through my mind. Maybe if we moved far away and started over fresh, maybe it would be best for the kids, blah, blah, blah........ But the bottom lines are 1. I could never trust her again. 2. Except for the custody arrangement, for the most part I am happier now than I ever remember being. 3. I have come to realize I never should have married her in the first place.

As for #2, yes she triggers an emotion but its all negative. One of my fears is that something will happen to her before she gives me the truth I think I have to have. And I know I will probably never get it. Other than that, for the most part, I don't care if she is sucking wind or not. The fact that she does trigger an emotion pi$$e$ me off at myself.

DJ,

Dispite what you write, I must agree with FLH and Fishracer: I really reads like you want her to beg true forgivness and want to resume your marriage. It seems like that is what she wants also.

Remember, there is a fine line between love and hate. It sounds like you are straddeling(sp) it now.

Relax, as the song goes: "The world will always welcome lovers as time goes by." Think of all the joy you both will experience in the make-up phase, and how much you will brighten the MB website.

PS: Also think of your sons' happiness at your remarriage.

RAG,
No offense intended but what are you smoking? She wants back with me? They say actions speak louder than words, she has had actions going on that are screaming way louder than what you have seen from her here. Check my post on the thread about rings and wedding pictures. I might like to reconcile with the fantasy I thought I was married to, but she doesn't exsist.
and P.S. I'm afraid DS1 despises his mother now. I know that could change but it isn't a pretty sight.

DJ:

As for #1, I can't say that the thought hasn't passed through my mind. Maybe if we moved far away and started over fresh, maybe it would be best for the kids, blah, blah, blah........

Speaking from someone w/o any chance of even the slim opportunity that you have: If the thought has passed your mind to reconcile; listen to it! Big deal if you moved far, far away. I would move to Alaska for an attempt to save and repair my marriage and family! (And I’m in Fl!) I believe that family and marriage are that important to you also! And you’re dog-gone right it would be best for your kids and that matters!!!

But the bottom lines are 1. I could never trust her again.

DJ: You could never trust her with “blind-faith” again. I’m with you on that. What if she told you that she needs for you to help her be trustworthy? That without you, she does not even trust herself and only with your love and support can she ever be a loving wife and decent human being with the ability to be honorable! It is possible that she will learn what trust really means now and will be better than she has ever been in her life!

2. Except for the custody arrangement, for the most part I am happier now than I ever remember being.

I hear your words; but sense an emptiness! I am happy also; until I think about old times, good memories, the pain in my DD’s eyes, and the pain my WW will soon feel when the walls of reality come crashing in.

3. I have come to realize I never should have married her in the first place.

I’ve said the same thing over & over. But you know what; you and I made contracts with God the day we married. (Here is where that damn radical honesty always bites me back!) I’m not going to say the vows, because I’m sure you know them all too well. And there were good, passionate reasons why you married your W! Those reasons seem gone due to the issues of the past and I understand that; but I’m going to step out on this limb again: There is still something between you two that is alive. RAG is right; there is a very fine line between love & hate!

I cannot tell you what to do. I don’t even know if your WxW even has the ability to do what’s right as to reparation and apologies. But I feel that it’s worth one more shot for you to talk with her about only your relationship. Nothing about the kids, nothing about the future, only about the positive-feelings that each of you have toward each other. If she says she has none, that you are misreading her, then you know and have positive validation! I fear if you don’t do this; you will have regrets the rest of your life. If she says yes, (and more importantly; you say yes to yourself) then take a little time to think, and then post it on here and let us know. Perhaps those of us who could not “rescue” our own marriages can help you rescue yours!

The resolve to be treated with dignity and respect must be uncompromising.- Dr. Phil

The resolve to be treated with dignity and respect must be uncompromising and therefore the resolve to treat others with dignity and respect must also be uncompromising. – Dr. Fishracer

FR

Dr. Fishracer,
I appreciate what you are saying, along with RAG and fhl04 and any others that might have made the same suggestion. I won't say it hasn't crossed my mind but the decision was pretty much made some time ago and nothing has happened to make me want to change it. If anything, it has been supported as the right decision. Why would I want to be in any kind of committed relationship with someone who could give her self to others so easily? Why would I want to be with someone who's only regret is that she got caught. That wasn't fog talk, she was eleven years out of the A when she made the "I'm sorry you found out." apology. I have been in a new relationship for a couple of months now, it appears to be going down the crapper but I still have stronger positive feelings for this lady than I ever had for WxW. I have 2 wonderful children that I don't get to see as often as I would like (every minute of every day) but other than that my relationship with WxW was a waste of 22 years of my life. I don't want to reconcile.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Speaking from someone w/o any chance of even the slim opportunity that you have </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know your story but I will [censored]-u-me that is because of the </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WW separated, seeking D, still "in touch" w/OM
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">in your signature line. My WxW is with OM anytime I have the kids. The Dv was her wish originally, not mine, I believe I tried everything I could stomach to save our marriage. The point came when I wanted the Dv too. I don't want it back.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What if she told you that she needs for you to help her be trustworthy? That without you, she does not even trust herself and only with your love and support can she ever be a loving wife and decent human being with the ability to be honorable! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What if? What if ain't happened, ain't gonna happen. She no longer has my love or my support. I can not envision her ever being a decent human being or having the ability to be honorable. I don't want her back.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And there were good, passionate reasons why you married your W! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We had been living together for several years, she was trying to get a job as a school teacher. The superintendant told her she would not be hired as long as we were shacking up, so we got married. What wild passion! I didn't want to get married then, I wanted to sue the school. I caved, we got married. Be careful about that limb you are stepping out on, it looks kinda rotten to me.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> RAG is right; there is a very fine line between love & hate! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Probably very true. My goal is to work on me to get to where I am on the line. I think I might be kind off to one side of it now. Guess which side. Here's a hint: I don't want to reconcile with my WxW.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don’t even know if your WxW even has the ability to do what’s right as to reparation and apologies. But I feel that it’s worth one more shot for you to talk with her about only your relationship. Nothing about the kids, nothing about the future, only about the positive-feelings that each of you have toward each other. If she says she has none, that you are misreading her, then you know and have positive validation! I fear if you don’t do this; you will have regrets the rest of your life. If she says yes, (and more importantly; you say yes to yourself) then take a little time to think, and then post it on here and let us know. Perhaps those of us who could not “rescue” our own marriages can help you rescue yours! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think she has the ability. First she would have to realize the whole picture of where she was wrong. To have the talk you are suggesting would require the positive feelings you seem to think we have. If I have them I don't know where they are. I don't think I'm the one that is misreading her. I fear I will have regrets the rest of my life too. I fear I will regret not sueing the school and marrying WxW. As for the post you are looking for, please don't hold your breath, people really don't look good when they turn that color of blue. I don't want to be married to her again.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The resolve to be treated with dignity and respect must be uncompromising and therefore the resolve to treat others with dignity and respect must also be uncompromising. – Dr. Fishracer
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The resolve to be treated with dignity and respect must be uncompromising and therefore the resolve to treat others with dignity and respect must also be uncompromising but if you severly compromise mine don't expect to remain uncompromised- Jeff

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by deafjeff:
<strong> I don't want her back.

Here's a hint: I don't want to reconcile with my WxW.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What are you trying to say Jeff <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And how does that make you feel? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ September 16, 2004, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: LostHusband ]</small>

I don't know. I get so confused sometimes. I knew WxW and I had communication problems. I guess it was all my fault because I have so much trouble saying what I mean. And all this time I thought it was because she was a lying .............
If only somebody could help me try to get back with her. Thats what it would take to make me the happiest SOB on the planet. Help me somebody please help me.

OK DJ. I hear you loud & clear now! Sorry for the misread. Good Luck.

FR

No sweat Fishracer. I kinda got a kick out of it. I really do appreciate everyones interest and willingness to help. Good luck to you too. I hope you do get to reconcile with your WW and ya'lls M becomes what M should be if thats what you want and it looks to me like you do.

The twist this thread has taken has gotten me started thinking. There are conditions that would allow me to CONSIDER reconciliation with my WxW:
1)She must sign a legal, binding document that if it doesn't work out for any reason that I get custody of the children. Her visitation will be when I feel like it. She will pay child support based on the same scale as mine.
2) She must reimburse me in cash for all legal fees, child support, sessions with my shrink, medical expenses, and anything else I can figure a way to connect with this ordeal.
3) She will pay me in cash an amount equal to #2 X 2 for mental anguish.
4) She must make a full confession of anything I want to know and pass a lie detector test. She is such a sociopath the polygraph may not work on her. Sodium pentothal may be required. Or aresnic.
5) If I deem the reconciliation is not working she will move to the place of my choosing, not limited to this planet.
There are probably other conditions, this considering reconciliation is a whole new concept for me. Guess how much time I would spend considering.