It seems that all these thoughts obsess me here and there, too. More often then I want to admit and the obsession goes deep and entangles me in such pain that I want to die sometimes. I feel what I learned from the book WOMEN WHO LOVE TOO MUCH has rescued me from getting too deep in my pattern of unhealty loving. My tendency is to give with nothing in return. Women who love too much are obsessed about sick man, allowing that unhealthy love to control their emotions and much of their behavior; finding herself unable to let go. Women who love too much are willing to take MORE responsibility than the addicted/sick spouse is in initiating the relationship and keeping it going. (this book is an excellent read for anyone who feels that their loving another is not healthy). This book came my way after many days of prayer and fasting. I KNOW that God is showing me a remarkable truth in the concepts of this book.

This link really helped me see what the Bible says about divorce.. http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q0806/q0806.html
Hope it helps.

I seem to be in a good place this week and I am receiving faith-filled encouragement in technicolor (clear, bright, colorful) so I hope to pass some of it on to others.

My STBX husband claims to have accepted Christ about 8x but there is no good fruit (Mathew 7:15-23). Hebrews 4:2 helps me understand a little of where he may be at.

There is a difference in those who live faith-filled lives and make mistakes vs. those who have a lifestyle of wrong choices and continually live in a pattern of destruction. My devotional today said this:
"Living by faith is not an easy task. Myriads of distractions try to draw us away from God (we all fail). Persecutions tempt us to place our physical comfort above our eternal reward. Success and stability entice us to avoid taking risks for the kingdom of God. Sometimes, even faithful people succumb to these temptations. Despite this fact, however, true believers will, OVER TIME, live a life more and more characterized by choices in favor of the hardships and uncertainties of faith over a pattern of choices that favor the comoforts of this world (adultery)" I can see that my choices now as a believer are directed by my faith and have good direction and results (I choose my stbx before I was a believer). This encourages me---I may not be there yet but I am on the right road.....

Also for those who are trying to fix, love and wait to see if the addicted person comes around should read ADDICTIVE THINKING (understanding self-deception) by Twerski. It truly exposes the distorted thinking of the addicted. We are not dealing with a person who can think logically.

To summarize, these men are very unlikely to change and want a good, healthy lifestyle. If a person commits adultery and makes a mistake and turns his/her direction around that is so different than a person who lives in a pattern of evil, indecent choices with no desire to turn anything around. Addictions keep a person from changing anything so if the addiction is not dealt with, there can be no marriage to an active addict. I do not believe that it is up to me to "save" my stbx anymore. God can do that with or without me cause God wants us to want him. If these men want God someday, they will find him. I continue to pray for my stbx and his eternal destiny and I WILL NEVER stop. But to live in cruel and inhuman treatment is not going to bring anyone to God.
God Bless
TW

<small>[ October 09, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: tossedwave ]</small>

MY neighbor divorced her husband many years ago because of alcoholism. Their son's way of coping with everything became alcohol & lived in a hellhole lifestyle. There was very little communication between the Mom and the son for many years.

Her son was a long time chef at a local restaurant. A good friend of mine moved here from out of state & went to work at the same restaurant as the son. (She didn't know him or his mom). Within 2 or 3 months she led him to AA, he is clean and sober, has a relationship with his Mom and is training for a marathon!!!!

I saw my neighbor tonight & she had to fight to hold back her tears (of joy) when talking about her son. It is so heart warming.

It just goes to show you, I bet my neighbor prayed and did all kinds of things hoping for sobriety and then she wasn't the one who led him to sobriety. God had a different plan.

My friend has since moved back home but made a huge difference in my neighbors family.

God works in mysterious ways.

D.

<small>[ October 09, 2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

This is part of the daily email from rejoice ministries & seemed appropriate -

"Then Jesus told them this parable: "Suppose one of you has a
hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-
nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds
it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders
and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and
says, 'Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.' I tell you
that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over
one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who
do not need to repent." Luke 15:3-7

What a powerful scripture! Believe that your Lord is going after your
lost spouse and He is calling their name throughout the day. He is
saying, "No, Don't go that way! Stop! Turn around!" The Lord needs
us to continue to pray, stand in the gap and fervently pray for your
spouse and all lost prodigals who have fallen into the trap of sin.
Jesus Christ is the only one who can set them free from the bondages
of sin and deception! Never stop praying for and give up on your
spouse and loved ones, regardless of the time. What is time, when
your spouse or loved ones are headed to Hell?

"But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the LORD a
day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
The LORD is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand
slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish,
but everyone to come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8-9

This Sunday may we all pray for ALL prodigals to repent and turn from
their sinful lifestyle and behavior and turn to our Lord Jesus Christ
for their salvation. Pray the Holy Spirit will speak loudly in their
ears to cause your spouses, sons, daughters, all your loved ones,
neighbors, friends, co-workers, and friends to repent and turn from
their wrongful ways. May they call on the name of our Lord Jesus
Christ.

I am confident that the Lord is knocking on many heart's doors. The
enemy deceives people to procrastinate and not be obedient to the
Lord's voice. Pray for all prodigals to surrender their lives to their
Lord today, confessing, repenting and turning 180 degrees from the
lifestyle they are living in now. Many are repeatedly saying, "I
will, but not now, just a little longer," or "I will change--later."
The Holy Spirit is convicting ALL sinners to repent from their
selfish sinful ways and turn their life over to their Lord Jesus
Christ-NOW, not later.

"The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come
that they may have life, and have it to the full. "I am the good
shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."
John 10:10-11

"Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the
name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will
receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and
your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord
our God will call." Acts 2:38-39

"Therefore, O house of Israel, I will judge you, each one according
to his ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from
all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid
yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new
heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? For
I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign
LORD. Repent and live! "Therefore, O house of Israel, I will
judge you, each one according to his ways, declares the Sovereign
LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not
be your downfall." Ezekiel 18:30-32

This weekend pray for the Men of God around the world who will preach
the Word and call for all sinners and prodigals to come back home to
their Savior and Lord.

Do you believe in miracles? Believe every day that your Lord wants
your spouse to be saved. He died on the cross for everyone's sins!
Every weekend pray scriptures with your spouses's name and your loved
one's name in them, asking for them to repent and for their salvation.

This Sunday let us praise and thank our Lord Jesus Christ that He is
working in your spouse's life and in all prodigals around the world,
that they will be saved! Your Lord is with you and will never forsake
you. He knows your deepest needs and desires.

"Lord, please bring all your lost children home today in the name of
Jesus. We are all praying in agreement for a mighty harvest this
Lord's day. Amen."

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name
under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

God bless,
Charlyne Steinkamp
Rejoice Marriage Ministries
Post Office Box 10548
Pompano Beach, Florida 33061
http://rejoiceministries.org
http://stopdivorce.org

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am going to drive myself crazy. I can't stop the DV. It would take two of us now that he's accepted the papers. And honestly, in my heart, I don't want to. I have a lot of financial fears being tied to him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I wasn't even questioning my decision lately </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LL,

You know what this reminds me of...being in a "holding" pattern awaiting surgery. You have made a decision to have surgery because it is NECESSARY...you report to the hospital...go through preop testing...sign papers...gown...bed...and then you...WAIT. Lying in that bed...waiting for the orderly to come and wheel you down to surgery is the most stressful 1 -2 hours of your life. You start second guessing everything...thinking about what ifs...could haves...should haves..and get yourself in such a frenzy that you are ready to jump off that gurney and run from the hospital with your gown flapping open in the back! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It HAS to be done for obvious reasons...you don't question God if you are doing the right thing. You ask God to help you deal with the decision that you have made with his help. I firmly believe that you did not make this decision lightly. You weighed everything out...you took your kids into consideration...you took yourself into consideration and God led you to your answer.

The thing that is killing you is the "wait". I wager than once you have the "yea verily"...you will be ok.

Take care of yourself and your kids.

committed

LL - The rejoice ministries emails seem address a lot of what you have posted here. Hopefully you are getting the emails each day, but just in case...... here it is....


IT'S NOT ABOUT ME -

"O Lord you are my God; I will exalt You. I will give thanks to Your
name; For You have worked wonders, Plans formed long ago, with
perfect faithfulness." Isaiah 25:1

Is there something about you that you feel is special? I hope so.
Everyday in my work I have to ask people questions like "What are some
of your strengths?" and never yet have I had anyone say "I don't have
any." There is always a ready answer to that question, but when I ask
about weaknesses, more often than not, I get a less than frank or
adequate answer. So what are your strengths? Do you have a beautiful
home? Are you really beautiful or handsome? Maybe you are very smart,
or are musical, or good at sports. Maybe before you became a stander
you had a seemingly perfect life. Our strengths mean a lot to us, and
they should, God has gifted all Christians spiritually in different
ways, in fact before we even knew Him he gave us special gifts,
talents or abilities. Relationships are very important to us also. Do
you long to be a part of a loving relationship again, or for the first
time? I do. I also would like to see my children grow up to be men and
women who live for God. I love my family and my home. I like my job a
lot, and I think that I am fairly pretty and smart. But I've come to
a very big realization. None of my life, not my relationships, not my
home, not my career, my appearance, or intelligence is about me. None
of it.

That has been a struggle for me to grasp. It's all about Him. I am
only one small, but significant, part of His plan for this whole
universe that He has created. That is a very sobering thought. None of
my life is about me. My struggle is to hang on, and make it about me,
because you know, I am kind of cute <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But holding on to a life that's
all about me and not about Him is actually harder than letting Him be
the One that it's all about. When it's about me, I feel the deepest
rejection when I think about my prodigal spouse.

I read recently about a man in the Old Testament that also wanted to
think that his life was about him, and suffered the pain of rejection
as a result. It was Samuel and here's the passage:

"Then all the elders gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah;
and they said to him, "Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do
not walk in your ways. Now appoint a king for us to judge us like all
the nations." But the thing was displeasing in the sight of Samuel
when they said, "Give us a king to judge us." and Samuel prayed to
the Lord."

Has you prodigal's leaving left you feeling old? Were/are your
children in need of some solid teaching and direction? Has your
prodigal's leaving left you feeling rejected? Well, listen to what God
said to Samuel.

"Listen to the voice of the people in regard to all that they say to
you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from
being king over them. Like all the deeds which they have done since
the day that I brought them out of Egypt even to this day- in that
they have forsaken Me and served other gods-so they are doing to
you also." 1 Samuel 8:7-8

God knows rejection. And all of this life for you, me and our
prodigals is about Him. Your prodigal's rejection of you is really
about Him, and about His holy will and standard for living. So when
your prodigal spouse says words to you that cut to the very core of
your being, remember that it's all about Him. And how you respond to
those hurtful words is really a response to God. A wise woman told me
to take those hurtful comments and throw them at the foot of the
cross, to the One who knows rejection better than any of us ever
could.

"He was despised and forsaken of men, A man of sorrows and
acquianted with grief; And like one from whom men hide their face.
He was despised and we did not esteeem Him. Surely our griefs He
Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried....He was peirced for our
transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening of
our well being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed."
Isaiah 53:3-5

As with Samuel, there may be areas in your life that have been
lacking, such as teaching the children. Work on those things, focus on
making changes in your life and listen to what your prodigal has said
regarding the problems in your relationship. But throw all the
rejection and pain at the cross of Christ. And let every aspect of
your life, your heart and your soul be about Him. Rejoice at being a
part of such a glorious creation, and miraculous universe, and playing
a role in the Creators' eternal plan for His creation. Know that by
His scourging you, and your prodigal spouse will be healed.

God bless,
Mary (A stander in Canada)

Rejoice Marriage Ministries
Post Office Box 10548
Pompano Beach, Florida 33061
http://rejoiceministries.org
http://stopdivorce.org


blessings,

D.

What a day!!!

Church was good. Sermon series on the book of James--you know, "count it as joy when you face problems of all kinds..."

Left church, turned on my cell phone, and was welcomed with 4 texts from STBXH. First one was just disappointed--because his daughter backed out of spending the day with WH and OW. The other three were filled with varying degrees of venom directed at me, like it's my fault.

I got home--phone rang. It's OW. Listened to her rant, and ranted back a bit--for, oh, probably 1/2 hour. STBX wants more stuff from the house. I don't want to give it to him. I was then accused of using his child support for my hair coloring and my manicures. HELLO?! Do I not work??? (Uh, yes, I believe I do, and I command a decent salary, too.)

Why I even took the time to justify, I don't know, but I reminded her that I DON'T drink, I don't have expensive hobbies, and frankly, I rarely go out to eat and when I do, it's with the kids. So if I want colored hair and nice nails, it's my treat to me.

She scolded me for not having groceries in the house. (Perhaps she shouldn't believe everything she hears from my DD?) Go ahead--bring on human services. I'm sure I have enough in my cupboards and freezer to sustain us for a good 2-3 weeks. I just don't have "instant gratification" food. It has to be prepared.

I couldn't help reminding OW that perhaps it's easier for her to keep their fridge stocked because she gets food stamps...ILLEGALLY at this point, because she's living with WH and the government thinks she's on her own.

I could hear, the whole time, STBX ranting in the background.

Oh yeah, and he's had my garage door opener forever. I want it back. He decided he'd give it back when he gets the pool table out of the garage. I said to OW, "No, I want it now. My name is the only one on the loan, so I don't think he needs to be in and out of my garage without my being there."

Then she says she wants my joint credit card back, since he's taking the account. Deal--they give me the garage door opener, and they get the credit card.

Okay, I left for Target to get a couple things and to cool down.

------------------------------------------------
This is where it all falls apart.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'm in the checkout line and OW calls again. Wants to know when I'll be home. Has something for DD, and wants that credit card. I'm on my way home, I tell her.

So I'm leaving the parking lot, thinking of 100 different things and am not all that happy about any of them. I'm hurting about something she said about DD having to accept OW and STBX together because she says, "We ARE together and we're STAYING together!"

And I run, well...this spot where I'm supposed to stop, even though there's not a nice stop sign or yield sign there...

And I t-bone an SUV! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

They spun around. Parts went flying across the parking lot...from my car. I was sick. It's my fault (thank goodness it was a parking lot so no tickets were issued (and I may go campaign with the city council for more parking lot markings because it IS dangerous!).

Little damage appears to have been done to their car, and no one was hurt. My car took the brunt of it. And because I drive a 1998 car with about 100,000 miles, it's likely totalled. I don't have the money to make a car payment until 4 years from now when my son gets out of school. I LOVE my car. It's a supercharged Grand Prix. But if it's totalled, I'll probaby only get about $6,000 from it. Can't buy much for that anymore. So I may see how much it would cost to put mine back together.

But here's the really disappointing part:

I"m supposed to be a Christian. I want SO badly to do the right thing. So why, when this happened, did I totally lose my cool??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I looked at my car and said the "s" word. I kicked the nose cone that was laying on the ground and called it a SOB. I kicked it some more. I opened the passenger door--it makes a crinkly sound because the fender got jammed back into it. I slammed it. I slammed it again. I told the poor cop who was trying to help me that I was "f'd" because my insurance would double, and because I don't have $ for a car payment.

I started bawling like a baby. I spewed a bit of venom about how I was going to take bunch of crap from STBXH when he finds out, and then about how he walked out on me for OW. (What did THAT have to do with the car mess???)

All my anger that I thought was under control just came flowing out.

Am I a Christian? My pastor made a comment in a sermon a few weeks ago about "What we're really made of comes out when we get squeezed."

So what am I really made of??? Anger and ugliness...

LL

Lordslady---You are a Christian and a good one if you are questioning your actions. (you are not ignoring the Holy Spirit's convicting) You are not rationalizing why you were right to do what you did. I will rationalize for you---You were on major overload....can't say I would not have cracked under that kind of pressure.

BUT that James stuff about trials has two parts. Part 1--Consider it pure joy...whenever you face trials....
Part 2--cause you know that the testing of your faith develops perseverance.

You are developing perseverance. You ask how do I know that---because you are aware of what you did. You now can take the next step and let God develop you by learning from this situation. It will be a 2 step forward and 5 steps backward process. Don't sit in a corner and beat yourself up. You are seeing your faith in action or in hibrination and believe me as long as we live on this earth, our faith will be tested.

Also--I agree wholeheartedly with Gnome:

I believe that in many cases, God intends to restore broken marriages, even after divorce. In those cases, I believe that God will - if we choose to listen - lay upon our hearts the conviction and the strength to stand for our marriage.

Hebrews 11:2 says in the Living Bible: What is faith? It is the confident assurance that something we want is going to happen. It is the certainty that what we hope for is waiting for us, even though we cannot see it up ahead.

God has never given me a confident assurance that my marriage would last. On the contrary, He is giving me ways to get out from under the chaos of my marriage.

BIG QESTION: What evidence do you have that God is giving you to stand and fight for your marriage? If you have a leading and confidence to do this, then stand and fight. If not, learn the process of letting go. What is God telling YOU? (not what is God telling someone else)
Prayin for you
TW

Okay, as for my car, looks like it's going to be okay. Cosmetic damage, but no structural, so it's fixable...

As for everything else:

Just got a call from STBXH. He was cryptic, but apparently there is trouble in paradise and OW may be or may have moved out. He says he's "restructuring" his life. I asked what I"m supposed to do now. He said don't worry about it.

What does that mean? What should I do? Am I going nuts (yes...I am!).

I was asked in a recent post if I felt God's leading to stand for this marriage. Quite honestly, no...I haven't. That's why I struggle. I know the Bible says God hates divorce. That's why I questioned whether or not I should DV. But each time I've asked God for guidance on what to do, STBXH has either left a hateful message for me or there's been some other thing that's said, "He has no intention of coming back to God or to me at this point."

Okay, now OW and him have had a tiff and she may be out. How can I now go thru with the DV if they do end up breaking up? He won't be in unrepentent infidelity anymore if she's gone.

But I'm not ready to take on the insanity of a drinking/drugging H who doesn't seem to be at all repentent for what he's done. He actually sounded very cocky on the phone.

I know, it's likely they just had a spat and all will be well in a few days. But it may not. This is the most serious he's ever sounded about her moving out.

UGH!! What to do???!!!?? Just when I think I've got it figured out.

LL

<small>[ October 13, 2004, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL,

IMHO, the answer here is.... be still, and wait. Do nothing.

Why do I say this? Well, a whole lot of thought and consideration has brought you to the point where you are now. So now you get a HINT that MAYBE there's a problem between WH and OW. So wait. Or go ahead with the divorce. But don't make rash decisions based on a maybe...

First of all, consider - is the problem with OW because he has seen the error of his ways, and is ready to get his life back on the right track? Or is it because.... well, because these kinds of relationships do implode.

In other words, what's really important here is not if he is breaking up with OW.... what's important is his frame of mind. Will you be letting him in, just to have him do this to you all over again, either going back to her, or with someone else.

And be prepared - he could kick her out and take her back again numerous times. That also seems to be the nature of these things.

The big thing here is: do you really want to put yourself back in the middle of all that drama? Because without concrete evidence from him that a real change is taking place, that's what you will be doing.

And as many people here have said before, even if you divorce, if he does clean up his act in the meantime, you can always re-marry. But you've gotten this far in the healing process. Allowing him to draw you back into the mess, with no real change on his part first, is likely going to put you back at square one in getting through all this.

One more thing....

After I posted that last response, I went back and re-read an earlier post you had made. It started out "Lots of great comments here...."

You talked about being in such turmoil and feeling sick whenever you considered waiting for him - and how at peace you felt whenever you decided to go forward with your plans as they are now and let God handle it.

You said everything you need to know in that post, far better than anyone else could tell you.

Print that post out, put it up someplace, and re-read it every time the drama starts up again. You've already done all the thinking on this - you just need to remind yourself.

And in the meantime - you'll know when you see real change from your WH, if you ever do. But until you see it, don't open the door for him. It's likely he's fishing - well, he's not happy with OW right now, so he MIGHT get rid of her, but he wants to see if his backup - you - is still in place while he decides.

In other words - the back and forth will keep him thinking that he can behave however he wants, and still can keep you on the hook. You have to be consistent and hold your boundaries!

He won't be in unrepentent infidelity anymore if she's gone.

Huh?????

Just because she moves out does not mean he is going to suddenly repent. He will still be unrepentant. You said yourself he is "cocky". That certainly does not sound like a repentant spirit to me. And you are right - they will likely get back together. Or, if not, he will be out there searching for another one.
LL - if he were saying "she is moving out, and I am a mess, and I just don't know what to do" then I would be saying that you need to put everything on hold. But he is not saying any of that. She is moving out, and yet he still doesn't show any signs of remorse.

I know this is hard. Believe me I know. Hang in there.

Okay, clarifying...

If he's no longer with OW, he will also no longer be actively committing adultry. Thus, he will not be in the situation that I felt justified DV. If he's no longer doing it, is DV still justified in God's eyes?

Yep, I got a little hyper there! I love him. I miss things about him. But I'm TERRIFIED to have him back in his current condition!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

As for Penguin's statement about a hint that there might be problems between WH and OW, I don't think it's ever been a great relationship. He's suggested being done before--just never been quite like he was today. And I spoke with my daughter after they picked her up at school (yes, OW was still with him at noon), and she said OW seemed very angry.

Do I think if she moves out, it's because WH has seen the error of his ways, Oh HECK NO!! My guess is that she's controlling, he's controlling, and there's just too much control going on, and he's given her his famous "it's my way or the highway" lines, and she may be choosing the highway.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's likely he's fishing - well, he's not happy with OW right now, so he MIGHT get rid of her, but he wants to see if his backup - you - is still in place while he decides.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this is probably very much the case. My sis also said basically the same thing. He wants to be able to control something. If he can't control OW, maybe he can control me?

So I'll try and pray, and breathe, and not get so shook up over everything. This is hard. I know you all understand. But I probably make it harder because I'm such an analyst.

LL

Haven't heard anything more from STBXWH since his call this morning. I will assume that means that at this point, he and OW are still together.

Got home tonight to find a birthday card for me in the mailbox--from HIS aunt. She wrote a very nice little verse in it about dreams and new hope for a new year.

That put me in the mood to give my FIL and step-MIL a call to catch up on things. I didn't intend to talk that long, but ended up talking to step-MIL for almost an hour and a half.

She is shocked that I'm allowing STBXH to have 50% of my retirement, to take the acreage we own, etc. I told her I want things to be as civil as possible and I just don't want to fight about it.

She doesn't think much of OW. I guess she came to the family reunion (her moment to meet STBXH's entire family back in September) in her usual semi-clothed state, complete with flabby stomach, tank top, and belly-button ring. MIL's point--"if you were meeting the new guy's family for the first time, wouldn't you think you'd want to appear somewhat mature and put-together, considering she's a mom and all?"

Uh...ya'd think! But then again, I also saw her walk into STBXH's automotive shop in a string bikini top and exercise pants one afternoon. That may fly in Daytona, but it's sort of out of place here in Iowa.

Step-MIL still is planning on inviting me down for their Christmas gathering. She said it might be a little tricky, as STBXH will always be welcome, and that they understand if he brings OW, they'd have to accept her there, but that she is the one they consider the outsider.

I told her I really want to be sure my kids get to go because they enjoy the Christmas hooplah, but that I don't want to but in and may just drive them down. We'll decide closer to that time.

I feel weird being in contact with them in a way, since our DV will be final in a little over a month. But it's nice to feel like I"m not losing everything.

MIL does find it odd that when STBXH feels ill, or when things happen between him and OW, that he calls me. She says it seems he's either not ready to let go, or he turns to me like I'm his mother. I think it's a little of both. Unfortunately, neither will save this M as long as he's not willing to let her go or go get treatment for his substance.

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Okay, clarifying...

If he's no longer with OW, he will also no longer be actively committing adultry. Thus, he will not be in the situation that I felt justified DV. If he's no longer doing it, is DV still justified in God's eyes?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Lorda mercy ll....just because he might no longer "live" with her, doesn't mean that he isn't going to continue to boink her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

He might go a week without boinking her...while still living with her. Living with her doesn't make it adultery. Do you see what I am saying?

He is in an adulterous relationship with her...regardless of the living arrangements. I would say that he is an adulterer UNTIL he asks for forgiveness...from YOU and from God.


AND...at the risk of being judgemental, I fear that you are looking for an out. An out with a righteous reason...do not use that.

JMHO
committed

<small>[ October 14, 2004, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]</small>

Committed,

AND...at the risk of being judgemental, I fear that you are looking for an out. An out with a righteous reason...do not use that.

But adultry is the only reason reason to DV that is "allowed" by God. Is that what you mean by looking for an out? If so, then yes, I am using that as my "out" from this mess. If it is not a justified reason, then maybe I"m totally misunderstanding, but are you saying that I shouldn't be DV at all?

Sorry...maybe I totally missed this one.

LL

PS...

Had to speak to him briefly today. Stupid phone company is the latest in the list who won't let me assume responsibility for the account and get names changed without HIS calling them to give permission.

So while on the phone, I asked if he or OW would be picking up DD next week from school while I was at my conference. Yes, he said, one of them would.

So I asked,"you got your differences resolved?"

His reply, "Well...we're still residing in the same place at this moment."

So I got all ruffled for nothing (except that now I'm all confused by Committed's comment.)

LL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Committed,

AND...at the risk of being judgemental, I fear that you are looking for an out. An out with a righteous reason...do not use that.

But adultry is the only reason reason to DV that is "allowed" by God. Is that what you mean by looking for an out? If so, then yes, I am using that as my "out" from this mess. If it is not a justified reason, then maybe I"m totally misunderstanding, but are you saying that I shouldn't be DV at all?

Sorry...maybe I totally missed this one.

LL </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No No No...

You are looking for an "out" to stop the divorce...questioning whether it is the right thing according to God.

IF, there was no adultery...but there was physical abuse...would you divorce or would you stay in the relationship until he killed you?

You are dying a slow death with his drinking, drugging, and his philandering.

There is NO reason for you to stay in that marriage right now. He is toxic to you and your kids. Do not look for some reason to stop what you are doing.

It is YOUR only salvation right now.

I think you are doing the ONLY thing that you can...given the place he is in right now.

committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are looking for an "out" to stop the divorce...questioning whether it is the right thing according to God </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oooohhhh, that's what you meant! (tiny lightbulb comes on over her head)

I thought you meant I should be stopping the DV--that I didn't have a valid reason in God's eyes to DV.

Actually, I don't want to stop it. However, I do worry that I'm doing something displeasing to God, too, and at first thought maybe you were confirming that. Thanks for clarifying.

(And yes, my anti-DV views are so strong that I probably WOULD have stuck with him even if there was physical violence, if there weren't an OW.)

LL

LL, Having doubts doesn't mean you're doing the wrong thing. You will never be 100% certain, but this doesn't mean you should spend the rest of your life in limbo. Since I'm also divorcing an alcoholic/addict who's living with MOW, I understand the confusion you feel. I loved my STBX and wanted him to get sober and come home, but that's not what's happened - and in my case it's been almost 4 years. I kept giving him one chance after another and hurt myself financially as well as emotionally in the process.

I agree with all those who've told you that since you feel most at peace with the decision to continue the divorce, you need to listen to your own inner voice. It's most important right now for you to do all you can to take care of yourself and your kids. Your H doesn't need your help to realize all the mistakes he's making. You need to get out of God's way and let him work in your H's life.

LetStry,

I can't believe you were able to keep it up for 4 years and not go insane! (though God does keep us going even when we don't feel like we can go anymore).

I maybe jumped ship a little early where the A is concerned, according to the Harley's plans, but I saw no improvement over all the months I waited. I still see none. It would surprise me a lot if I see any for a number of months in the future. Maybe someday he'll wake up. I do pray for him and will continue to. Where I'll be at that point, if it happens, is anyone's guess.

(Of course seeing as I have no life and am actually rather enjoying just bumming around the house, I'll probably still just be sitting here typing away on the computer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

LL