No, its not relevant. Trust me on this. It was just a much needed ego boost after being run over with a truck by the man who vowed to love me and cherish me. It was a mistake but one I think SAVED MY LIFE.

God, I cannot believe that I'm the only one ever to have done this...that you all can't see that I'm losing it and am grasping at straws to save my sanity.

I loved my husband. I built my whole life around him and my family. I always put him first. I've never made a decision, never made a friend that wasn't OUR friend.

Obviously I'm not perfect. We made plenty of sacrifices to do the family thing. He never complained. He always acted like these were sacrifes with both were willing to make. We discussed this stuff. I thought he was Mr. Wonderful. I didn't realize I was the only one in this marriage willing to sacrifice complete freaking joy every minute of everyday so that we could build something meaningful. He didn't sacrifice a darn thing. He was out screwing God knows how many women. Partying away.

My whole life has been a lie. I have nothing because I thought I was doing right and living a life to build a strong family. Except that now he has taken everything away from me. I have no friends that aren't both our friends, my own family is devestated by what he has done. My parents are in complete denial. My therapist said I was better off not talking to them about this. I have no one to talk to, no one that understands except you all and my OM. Even my children will not be the same now. They will be sad and confused and hurt and uprooted.

And I am here at this website trying to figure out how to salvage something out of all this. Trying to figure out if there is anything TO salvage. I'm not a bad person. I'm a lost, destroyed , pitiful and weak person. But I'm trying so hard.

My OM was cheated on and got divorced. Not because he wanted the divorce. He was willing to work things out but she didn't want to. She married her OM. He has been through some of the things I've been through. Except he has had a few years to come to terms with it. He has a better perspective then I do. He helps me to see I can get over this. When I'm with him is the only time I can believe in my heart that I'm not a worthless piece of trash.

I used to take pride in being a good mom. Now, I can't even do that. I made babies with a man that obviously isn't capable of putting anyone before himself, his woman and his drugs. They will pay for MY stupidity.

I do not know why I feel like I have to justify my actions. I do not know why I can't face the reality that my marriage is over and there is going to be a rough road ahead.

My husband knows about OM. My OM is aware of where I am at with this. I talk to him. He comforts me. We laugh together. He makes me forget all my problems. He makes me feel normal, again. Like I'm just a person and not a doormat. He is not my future husband. He is a friend. My only friend that is my own. The only thing in my life for the last 15 years that has been my own.

I made a hugh mistake not taking care of myself for the last few years. I am not going to ever let myself go down that road again. Its sad but its reality. We never can count on anyone but ourselves. And I am fully aware that I can't count on my OM except for this moment of peace.

So, I welcome your comments about this as well as all the other things I have shared with you all. Just try not to kill me because you all are my support.

(((((doing the best i can))))),

Some of your words sound exactly like ones I have said/typed. I can't tell you how many times I have used the phrase "worthless piece if trash" in conjunction with myself and the way my STBXWH made me feel. I also was involved in a R while still trying to sort through things and make decisions about my M. You might want to look up some of my past posts, both here and on the GQ Board.

I don't have any advice regarding the drugs - that I will leave to LH, as he is the "expert" in that arena. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But I can tell you from personal experience that you being in another relationship while you are still confused and trying to figure out whether you want to work on your M any longer is only going to bring you and your OM and your children and possibly your WH pain in the end. PAIN and lots of it. Right now you feel OM has brought you back to life, saved you, made you feel human again. I have said all those same things myself, almost word for word. But let me give you some adjectives that are more than likely lurking just around the corner, or may even already exist, laying hidden beneath the confusion and pain and the seeming respite from that that OM brings. They are words like guilt, confusion, shame. They are questions like, "what-if I had done this, or hadn't done that?", questioning your character and integrity, feeling even MORE weak, having unecessary regrets.
I know when you are in the midst of the situation, you don't see any other way, all you see is yourself dying and OM coming along and pulling you out, making you feel human and worth something again. I don't know what the answer is, because I am still seeking answers myself. But I have been there, I can relate to you in that area so very much. And the one thing I can tell you for 100% sure, is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to make any honest, clear-headed decisions about your M when you are involved in a relationship with another man.
You speak about being confused and weak. I am telling you that OM is adding to the confusion, not alleviating it. Does he give you immediate and temporary relief? Yes. Do you love him? Probably so. Would you be happier or better off with him than with your recovering WH? I don't know.
I do know that based on my limited knowlege of LH's history and present, if his wife had been considering leaving him in the midst of his recovery, she'd have been a fool. Your husband could very well come out of the other end of this thing as an incredible husband, father, and man. The question is, are you going to give him that chance? I believe the answer begins with the OM.

(((((((Doin)))))) I understand that you’re going though some tough trials and tribulation but you’re not helping matters by going through them blindfolded. As you’ve seen I’m not here to dog you out however I’m not gonna sugar coat things either.

“””No, its not relevant. Trust me on this.”””

How can it not be relevant? That’s like me saying that vodka wasn’t relevant to my alcoholism because I mainly drank beer and only drank vodka on occasion, it just doesn’t make sense. It is relevant in many facets but most importantly that it masks your true feelings and ability to see things as they truly are.

“””It was just a much needed ego boost”””

Substitute my use of alcohol for your use of this man and we’re not that different, are we?

“””God, I cannot believe that I'm the only one ever to have done this...”””

You’re not and unfortunately you won’t be the last.

“””that you all can't see that I'm losing it and am grasping at straws to save my sanity.”””

Yes I can see this but your also standing in your own way of finding your sanity. Do you have any idea what you really want? Do you have any idea what you really have?

”””He was out screwing God knows how many women. Partying away.”””

And this justifies what you did and are continuing to do how?

”””I have nothing because I thought I was doing right and living a life to build a strong family.”””

That’s your feeling and you have every right to feel that way but I’m quite certain that it isn’t true. I’m quite sure you have a lot. Make a “gratitude list” and see what you truly have to be grateful for.

“””And I am here at this website trying to figure out how to salvage something out of all this.”””

Have you figured out anything yet? The one thing I guarantee is that it will be impossible to salvage your marriage while you’re with the OM.

“””I'm not a bad person.”””

I know your not.

“””I'm a lost, destroyed , pitiful and weak person. But I'm trying so hard.”””

What exactly are you trying hard to do?

”””My OM was cheated on and got divorced.”””

So does that make it right for him to become OM.

“””He has a better perspective then I do.”””

In more ways than you know.

“””I used to take pride in being a good mom. Now, I can't even do that.”””

Why? All it requires is a choice to do so.

“””I made babies with a man that obviously isn't capable of putting anyone before himself, his woman and his drugs. They will pay for MY stupidity.”””

I can’t speak to the other women but your husband has a disease. Would you blame him if it was cancer?

”””I do not know why I feel like I have to justify my actions.”””

Probably because in your heart you know that what you’re doing is wrong.

“””I do not know why I can't face the reality that my marriage is over and there is going to be a rough road ahead.”””

It is over if you choose for it to be. But let me tell you that the grass ain’t necessarily greener on the other side of the fence. You are in a relationship born of evil, you entered into this relationship as an extremely unhealthy individual and to think that it can ever be good is simply a lie.

”””And I am fully aware that I can't count on my OM except for this moment of peace.”””

I wish you could see that what you’re calling a moment of peace is simply adding to the insanity of your life.

”””Just try not to kill me because you all are my support.”””

And no matter what, we should always be. But friends aren’t just there to agree with us.

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

Consider reading "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders." People who sacrifice think they are doing all the sacrificing, and it's not FAIR!!!

I know. That book gave me some insight into how our marriage got so bad.

You have a H who is showing a willingness to try. That is wonderful. The way to show him your willingness to work on your M is to get OM out of your life and then go back into the M with the understanding that EVERY DECISION will be in the best interest of both people -- NO SACRIFICES!

Here's something I typed out from the radio show, a discussion between Dr. Harley and his wife Joyce about the outlook of a Renter:

Dr. Harley... If she’s a Renter, she says “OK. I’m willing to make bargains with you” and she uses the word “sacrifice” which is a key term of a Renter. Renters use the word sacrifice a lot. What Renters say is “I’ll sacrifice for you this time if you sacrifice for me next time” which means that they’re into win-lose agreements. An agreement for me is that I’ll let you win this time and I’ll lose this time if you let me win next time and you lose next time. Well, Freeloaders don’t go for that. They want to win every time…

Because she’s looking for sacrifice, she’s willing to make sacrifice for this man and she’s expecting him to make sacrifice for her. That whole idea forms the basis for all of their fights. And it’s a very, very important concept in marriage to understand. If you believe in sacrifice, if you believe that you should be loved unconditionally, if you believe that you should love unconditionally, you are a person who fights.

Joyce: Why is that concept of sacrifice – “I’ll get my way this time, next time you’ll get your way and I won’t be happy “ and then keep going back and forth – why is that type of life conducive to arguments and fighting? What brings it on?

Dr. Harley: Because it negates negotiation. It takes negotiation completely out of the equation. In other words, if I assume that you love me, you’ll do whatever it takes to make me happy, and then I notice that you didn’t do it today, then I will tell you that you have to do it. If you really love me, you’re going to do what I want you to do. And you say, well, I’m sorry, but I just don’t feel like doing it today.

Joyce: But you didn’t do something for me…

Dr. Harley: Well, you might use that argument, or you might use the argument that I just don’t have time, this is not something that’s on my schedule –

Joyce: It’s not that I don’t love you…
Dr. Harley: I love you fine. It’s just that it’s not…And instead of saying well, let’s see, how can I get what I need and have you happy doing it for me…I’m not going to go there at all. What I’m going to say is “You must not love me” and I’m going to start arguing with you. I’m going to start demanding things of you. I say…”You better start doing this for me whether you like it or not, or I’m going to make your life miserable.” And that’s essentially what fights are all about. Fights are expecting the other guy to do something for you without discussing the terms of the arrangement.

Joyce: I wonder if people listening are thinking to themselves, “Well, you know, we have embraced the concept of sacrifice in our marriage,” and I wondering if they’re recognizing these red flags and these warning signals…Is it typical? Do you think there’s an exception out there who could call in and say, “Well, you know, Dr. Harley, my wife and I, we sacrifice for each other and we love each other dearly. We’ve never had a harsh word.” Do you think that could happen?

Dr. Harley: Unlikely. As a matter of fact, if I would get to know them a little bit better, I would understand that they’re not really doing that at all. If they’re really getting along, they are negotiating.

Joyce: And they just don’t realize it…

Dr. Harley: And they are listening to each other, and they are responding in a way where they get mutual benefit out of each arrangement which is what my goal is. That’s essentially what I want every couple to make. But what I want them to understand is that when you come up with a mutually enjoyable conclusion to a situation where you say “This works for both of us”, you’re not making sacrifices. That’s not a sacrifice. That is win-win. Sacrifices are win-lose.

Joyce: OK, but some people have a hard time grasping that because they have had to give up their original desire and modify it or jump into another area totally because the original concept was not pleasing to their mate – and so they feel like they have sacrificed. They feel as if they have left something out. We’ve heard a lot of people talking about what they want to do recreationally together, well, in our case…I don’t enjoy football. Right? You love it. You’re not going to football games because I’m not joining you. You’ve sacrificed, some people would say.

Dr. Harley: Yeah, I don’t call that a sacrifice because I can put something else in that spot. In other words, that, if you say, “We’re not going to play football”, it doesn’t mean that I’m going to sit in a corner, in a chair, facing the wall, and just mope around. I’m going to do something else with my time. I’m going to enjoy some other activity that you and I could enjoy together.

Joyce: But isn’t there a moment in time when there isn’t a feeling of “I’m having to give something up…”

Dr. Harley: Well, if you’re in the habit of doing something that’s incompatible, there is a moment where you have to break out of that and develop something that is compatible, and any change requires energy and to some extent when people are making the change they might get the notion that they’re sacrificing but it’s like sacrificing to learn to type. In other words, you’re learning a new skill. Now to me you might think of going to typing lessons as a sacrifice. To me, a sacrifice is something where I lose. Sacrifice means I lose so you can gain, and I am dead-set against that in marriage because what it does is it makes me expect you to sacrifice then next time. And if we care for each other, neither of us wants the other one to suffer for either of our benefits. We want us to both gain whenever we make a decision.

PS. My H has been physically abusive. He cracked my skull. He broke a windshield. He bashed in a door. He threw me down.

Twelve days after major surgery which included a hysterectomy, he broke my arm -- the ulna was in seven pieces -- because I was threatening to call this woman from work whom he said kept calling him and it would be rude of him to hang up. It was the week before Christmas. Nice Christmas present, wasn't it? I went through three surgeries for the arm and was in a cast or splint from when he broke my arm until after Easter. I finally called the woman's husband and he got the truth out of the woman that they had been having an affair.

Guess what he said? "I had no choice but to have an affair."

Guess what hurt worse? I hid the broken arm but nearly had a nervous breakdown with the revelation of the affair. The abuse and affair got revealed at the same time. A few months ago, my mother in law was telling me that when she found out what happened, she was very upset -- with me! And my response was "And I was upset with Sophia!" She laughed and said, "No, no..." My response was, "Until I realized that Tom's behavior was Tom's responsibility."

Your affair is very relevant and very hurtful, no matter how much your H has hurt you, he doesn't deserve it. Please, if you wish to consider reconciling, let the OM go...

Cherished

<small>[ October 11, 2004, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

TMCM -- I'm glad to see you back on the boards!
Cherished

To all,
The sacrifice thing I said may have miss lead you. I never felt like I was sacrifing. I just meant apparently he felt we were not worth sacrificing his every need being met every minute. I didn't think it was sacrifing because I thought that was just the choices we made. I was happy because it was what I wanted. I only felt like I sacrificed after he told me all the stuff he had been doing and I felt like a fool sitting here thinking this was life (a good life) we both wanted only to find out that he was leading this double life and wasn't happy with the one he said he wanted with us.

He has said stuff like "I couldn't handle the responsibilty of being a father". Well every person that becomes a parent knows that there are things you give up. You can't go on that big vacation like before you had kids, you can't be spontaneous, you can't golf every Saturday b/c your kids have soccer games, you have people depending on you financially. All I'm saying is that is a lot more fun to do whatever you want when you want but you get a lot more out of being a parent and a spouse than you give up. At least thats how I always felt. I thought he felt that way, too.

So my point is that life is about trade offs. You don't get to have everything all the time right this minute.

I think its about maturity.

Anyway, the rehab counseler last night said that an alcoholic/addict is only as emotionally mature as the age they were when they started using. My husband was drinking at 15. It really hit home because I feel like I'm dealing with a 15 year old. Its hard.

I didn't try to force him into win/lose conflicts. We would discuss things. We would compromise and agree on the what our plans were. Trust me on this. I'm a hugh planner. I hate uncertainity. So if anything we over discussed stuff. Thats a big part of why I'm so hurt. Its like he wanted this family (he still says he does) but he wants the fun, carefree life of a single person, too.

I have been to my husbands rehab as his support person, I've done marriage counseling, individual counseling, I've been on here way too much...I'm trying but nothing is helping me to get over the hurt. I think I'm just going to take a break from it all after my therapy tomorrow. My brain just can't seem to absorb anything. I'm so tired.

I don't know you, and I don't know your H -- obviously -- but it strikes me that you might be using your H's PAST behavior to justify your PRESENT decision to dump your H and focus your attention on your OM.

Are you really giving your H a chance? It sounds from your own description that he is doing his best right now.

Cherished