ITHURTS, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really never thought he could turn like this - but he has. I've seen him mad over the years but NEVER like this..His whole attitude of not caring and telling me he doesn't care what people say or think is just not the man I thought he was..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I felt the same way. I refused to believe he wouldn't wake up to the destruction he was creating around him, but he never has. Instead, he blames it on me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Knowing that probably for years he's had SF and I've had none..enrages me.. That I did w/o sex becoz I "thought" he wasn't interested/didn't have strong needs like I did - How rotten and unfair is that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">. I always thought I was the only woman who had this problem! At this point, I'm just amazed at the depth of my denial that allowed me to believe that for so many years when I can look back now and see that the signs were always there. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey, he's got OW to fall back on which helps them to continue to block their feelings for their BS/ </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that definitely makes a difference.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did get to another attorney this am..He was great - my WH cannot cut me out of the will totally..nor can I cut him out..There are things I can do to protect my personal items, as well as, my part of the business. I will get this done ASAP..I cannot nor can he just sign everything over.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Congratulations both on going to an attorney and on your discovery that your assets are safer than you thought.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said I need to get strong and not be afraid of him..I told him he seems to be cocky about something..He said he has nothing to be cocky about..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't it amazing how they had us snowed into believing they were so powerful? My lawyer had the same kind of talk with me. I agree with him that knowing the facts about your financial situation will be a great help in making a decision. I doubt you're as financially dependent on him as you think. I say this because I was sure I couldn't survive financially without my STBXWH and here I am running our business alone and supporting him.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe I have done everything possible to save my marriage. So if it ends - I'll know in my heart I tried..I found this site too late - I should have thrown him out immediately - I exposed too late..I let too much go like you did Letstry..But, even if I did do things differently if I'm dealing w/ a serial cheat who's always done this - no matter when I would have confronted/exposed/thrown him out - the end result would not be different from what it is now..He wants it all....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right. We can't undo the past and there's nothing we can do or could have done to change them anyway.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just feel bad that this situation has become so out of control - that this man that I love(d) so deeply - has nothing but hate in his heart for me..WHY???? I know the reasons - I just haven't "accepted" them all yet...I'm fighting a losing battle..I too don't regret the fight - I regret the outcome as I know my love will not win..Lies, cheating, stealing other mens'wives that's what will win over me...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The truth is, it IS sad and we have to grieve the loss before we can move on.

Hugs to you, too.

ItHurts

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Though, I was loved and coddled as a child - he claims he was not held and his family is not touchy, kissy type people. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My family was like his....no affection, no touch (except in punishment), no expression of love in words. I know this is part of the reason I so hunger for affection and sexual intimacy. But going outside of my marriage to try and find it was certainly no answer but only made my problem so much worse.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Have you decided to contest the divorce? To buy her more time to see the new and improved model, to see that Plan A can last forever.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I doubt that I will contest the divorce. For one I think it would only embitter her more. It would probably also devastate us financially even more than the divorce already will. Her heart is cold and closed toward me and she has made up her mind. Though I know it's extremely rare, there is probably more hope for reconcilation after divorce than there is reconciliation before it. Yesterday she told me that she thought I would be willing to live out the rest of my life in the basement just to stay together. While I have actually pondered living celibately in a sexless, affection-less marriage....at least until the kids are out of the home...for the sake of my children, that is not the kind of legacy I want to expose them to. I also have grave doubts that I could do it. Further, I'm afraid that I'd end up doing what I've done for all the rest of my life up to this point: look for love from a person who is unable to love me. First it was my parents and now it's my wife. Although I love my wife and the thought of being divorced from her is wrenching, I am also learning, in the words of SLAA recovery 'intimacy with myself.' Simply I must love myself in a healthy way and waiting for a person to love me who has chosen not to is a very unloving thing for me to do to myself. I am trying to stay in reality and avoid all flights into fantasy: whether that be fantasies of other women who will love me or fantasies of reconciliation with my wife. Maybe one or the other will become a reality for me one day. Right now neither is reality and may never be.

XS - Realizing that some of your behaviour relates to your childhood - standing up and recognizing this is great - becoz even if you weren't married - you understand that every encounter isn't "love" - and fulfilling the "need" isn't going to "fix" you inside.

You sound even more down than on prior posts and I'm sorry you don't feel better about the state of your M.

What makes her think you will live forever in the basement just to stay together? What have you said that gives her this confident feeling?

"Legacy" - so you worry what your children think of you and how they will think of you when you are gone..My WH apparently doesn't care about that either. Unless, he truly likes being known by all as a "dog" and that's what he wants his family, friends, xlovers, children to remember about him. Funny, when I met some of his guy associates years ago, that was his nick-name I didn't realize it was gonna bite me in the [censored]..12 years later..nor did I realize what the nickname truly meant.

We all need love and attention - I guess I'm just numb from not having my needs met for so long - that I'm not out looking to find someone - it's not a high priority to me. My priority for so long has been to save my M and now knowing that I can't - I don't know how vulnerable I truly am...I wonder if I was in the "right" situation would I too fall just for the sake of having some affection. I felt such a strong conviction before - maybe it's just the holidays getting to me..I don't know..I don't have much opportunity to go out I keep very busy and spend most free time at the barn. And maybe I do that - subconsciencly so I don't fall - I was a WH so I know first hand how easy it is to fall out of a troubled marriage and I want to keep my dignity rather than become a WH again.

Living in a sex-less , affection-less marriage is not what anyone of us wants - BUT...at this point I would rather be in that position than where I was - that the affection was all for show..The lack of sexual needs was hidden from me - it was a fantasy that I no longer want to be in..I cannot live a life of lies any longer. No matter the outcome of my M - it is easier to do w/o than to be treated as second best or to compete for my own WH love.

I don't know if "waiting" for a person to love you who has chosen not to IS a very unloving thing for us to do to ourselves. I don't think I agree w/that..You talked about the depth of the addiction - your BW is deep into her issues w/you so it just may take a D or something else to bring her out of that, and like an addiction she may never be able to let go of it..I'm babbling here now - becoz I feel bad that your down and I'm trying to help keep you focused...and I don't know what else to say to you....

HUGS

ITHURTS

Thank you for you, as usual, encouraging response. Thank you for caring that I feel down but please don't feel like you have to say something to make me feel better. I just need to take care of myself--work on that intimacy with myself--and part of that includes owning and accepting my grief, anger, frustration, fear, and the other painful emotions I've been feeling. It's part of what makes me ME and it's ok. That doesn't mean I like it, I definitely don't! But in my better moments, I'd rather be a person traumatized by this loss than a person who either didn't care or ran from my feelings.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What makes her think you will live forever in the basement just to stay together? What have you said that gives her this confident feeling? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think she said that because I've been sleeping in our daughter's room and I've calmly accepted that and basically acted like it doesn't bother me to be there. Well it does bother me some but I know things could be a lot worse and I am thankful just to be in our home. So maybe she is thinking that I would be grateful to just be in our home living in the basement just so we won't divorce. Part of this reflects this attitude she occasionally gets toward me which is very prevalent right now. It is an attitude in which she looks down on me as if I'm a person who can't live on my own. This is ludicrous but she can't see it. I didn't marry until I was 27 and I both worked and earned 2 Master's degrees until then always living on my own. Since then I have always held management and executive level positions, have travelled by myself through Asia, have been a published author, and I share heavily in household responsibilities (I do most of the cooking, much of the grocery shopping, some laundry, dishes, etc...). None of this means much to my wife because: </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. I've always worked for non-profit organizations and so I've never made a six figure salary, and 2. I'm not much of a handyman/car mechanic kind of guy but rather someone who feels more comfortable with a book than a hammer!</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
So the comment about living the rest of my life in the basement is a slam that she intends to demean me. A major love buster for me and it makes me wonder why I'm trying so hard to save our marriage. Of course, she's not always that way and often, while not as affirming as I wish, she is someone who has shared in the joy of my strengths.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know how vulnerable I truly am...I wonder if I was in the "right" situation would I too fall just for the sake of having some affection. I felt such a strong conviction before - maybe it's just the holidays getting to me..I don't know..I don't have much opportunity to go out I keep very busy and spend most free time at the barn. And maybe I do that - subconsciencly so I don't fall - I was a WH so I know first hand how easy it is to fall out of a troubled marriage and I want to keep my dignity rather than become a WH again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I relate entirely too much to the sense of vulnerability. Maybe the biggest problem of falling in this way is the tendency to connect with someone who, at the time seems to rescue us from our loneliness and hunger for intimacy, but who ends up being someone seriously impaired of offering real love and intimacy. Part of the reason I'm saying this is because I need to read myself writing it--I still think it more than feel it and I need to feel it!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You talked about the depth of the addiction - your BW is deep into her issues w/you so it just may take a D or something else to bring her out of that, and like an addiction she may never be able to let go of it.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for writing this. I need to keep working on thinking this way instead of drifting into the ditches of despair over the impending losses. Thanks too for sharing your own pain and journey, your hugs, and your well-wishes. Nobody can do this alone. While my recovery buddies are a huge support to me (I talk to someone at least once a day), this board and people like yourself who are open about their struggle and pain really help me too.

I'll end on a positive note. My daughter who is coming home tonight for Christmas break is 18. I've fretted about what kind of home she is coming back to but I'm powerless over much of that so I won't go there. Instead I will tell you that my daughter was the one who found porn on my computer over 3 years ago and showed it to my wife which led to full exposure of my addiction. My daughter hated me. For good reason. While trying to be a good dad for her I constantly held her up to a contrived standard she could never reach and so she felt she could never please me. And hypocritically it was a standard I didn't live up to myself. During these past 3+ years an amazing healing has occurred in our relationship and my daughter and I have a closeness we've never had. Even though she knows the depths of my issues, I know she admires and respects my efforts to change and she is very affirming of the changes she has seen in me. I am so looking forward to her being home tonight. BTW--I've been sleeping in her bedroom so I guess I'll be headed down to our basement...we have a finished den down there so it's not like it's a horrible place. The mattress on the sofa-bed is just a bit thin for my frame so....well, I'll keep this positive and say I'm thankful I have a warm, cozy place to sleep in our home for the time being. One day at a time, I can do this with God's help.

May your weekend be full of the gifts of life.

XS -

Quote - But in my better moments, I'd rather be a person trumatized by this loss than a person who either didn't care or ran from my feelings...
________________________________________________
BRAVO - BRAVO - and I say this - becoz you know my situation - where WH doesn't care about ANYTHING at this point in his life..and contiues having multiple A's because he is running from intimacy, saving his M, or whatever. I'm not saying this to make you "feel better" - I'm saying it becoz you deserve to hear it....

So - I'm M to a man who does earn in the 6 figures - who has made a name for himself in our small community - who is someone I SHOULD BE PROUD to be M too - and now, I don't want anyone to even know he is my H...Heck, he never helped w/house stuff, can't repair anything nor does he want to. So now he's finally doing stuff around the house - why - to show me he doesn't NEED ME...To demean me as your wife has done to you..
I didn't care if he did things around the house - It didn't bother me to do everything but cut grass or shovel snow. I never looked down on my WH for a lack of those things - I only look down on him for the choices he's made in women.

I truly believe my WH seeks the vulnerable married women..He knows he can connect easily w/them. It does rescue him and them from whatever"issues" are going on in their heads/lives. Do they care - NO - Instant Gratification...Understanding our faults/weaknesses is what will make us stronger - he chooses to continue "looking for love"..

I was out for drinks this week-end and I'm at the point where I enjoy having someone tell me I'm attractive, thin, etc. That I'm steps above my WH in looks, personality, class, etc. But, then I come off that ego trip and say - Then Why, oh Why doesn't he want me...Though, another post brought up Resentment - and maybe this is in the equation too - I have a great family, friends, had a good job when we met, and it all is natural for me and he has to put up a front to have these things..except the job..

Yes - this board and people like you and some others have helped me too - I've learnt alot here - I knew nothing of sexual addictions, fog, serial cheats before I came here. I'm not happy w/what I've found out - but, if nothing else I know my hands are tied in resolving my marital issues. It's up to me now to accept him for who he is or to break free.

If we do end up D - he and whomever will be very happy for a period of time - she'll think he hung the moon - she'll be wrapped up in him...then when she's under his control he will lie and cheat - it may take her a long time to see it - and she may even decide to ignore it..But it will happen..

My WH's daughter knows something but I'm not sure what all she knows...I know she called her dad last week and told him "Dad, H#($( wanted me to call and let you know she can't make it today...This would be the MOW who works for us - her and his D are friends - go figure that a 45 year old hanging w/a 25 year old....MOW befriended daughter to get to WH and heck it worked....It would be a terrible shame if WH's D knew he was having an A and she helped him play his game. Boy, money is truly the root of all evil...if she knows - and doesn't care - someday should she find herself in my boat w/a WH she'll surely have NO respect for her father..It's ify now - that would be the icing..

I had terrible dreams last nite - probably from our company Xmas Party last nite - where MOW - danced the nite away - struttin her stuff - for my WH to dream about...This had me sooo mad that I was paying for this party and had to watch this tramp carry on like she owned the place - not me...In my dreams I confronted her and she didn't care..she berated me...she won..at least in my dreams.
Her BS/WS was involved in a scuffle which he was diffusing - she told people SHE DIDN"T CARE - she never checked to makde sure he was ok..she just kept dancing...They have been M for 20+ years....No matter what my WH has put me though unfortunately, I'd still be there for him...
What does that show for her character??? I actually, made sure her BS was ok...

What's that prayer - Lord Grant Me The Serenity-hahhahhhah

HUGS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I truly believe my WH seeks the vulnerable married women..He knows he can connect easily w/them. It does rescue him and them from whatever"issues" are going on in their heads/lives. Do they care - NO - Instant Gratification...Understanding our faults/weaknesses is what will make us stronger - he chooses to continue "looking for love"..
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Seeking a married woman to have an affair with is typically the strategy of a man who is looking to avoid commitment (and true intimacy). The idea is that neither party wants to leave their marriage and thus both will keep it secret and understand when they cannot be with each other. I know because that's the way I thought when I was straying. Single women wanted commitment and were a risk to expose so I mainly stuck with married women. There is also a dimension in which both parties see themselves as 'rescuing' the other and being 'rescued' from the love that is lacking in their marriage. That's the rationalization that makes the relationship acceptable. I had no concept that this was keeping me from facing the issues in my own life and marriage or that my involvement with a married woman was blocking her from doing that in her life and marriage. This thinking starts with an unwillingness to look deeply enough at our own issues and so instead we blame our mates and this left me with a feeling of entitlement to seek 'love' with other women. Even now, in the situation I'm in, I'm sometimes tempted to think this way. I have found this is very toxic thinking to me and typically I make a phone call to a recovery buddy to deal with this 'insane' kind of thinking.

Your post made me curious about a few things: do you have children with your wh? If so, are they grown or still at home? Does your wh still live in the home with you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was out for drinks this week-end and I'm at the point where I enjoy having someone tell me I'm attractive, thin, etc. That I'm steps above my WH in looks, personality, class, etc. But, then I come off that ego trip and say - Then Why, oh Why doesn't he want me... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think all of us enjoy affirmation that we are desireable. I certainly do. It is something I enjoyed in my straying encounters but then I would wonder why my wife didn't seem to want me. I felt this way because the women I was with seemed to 'give' themselves to me in passion while the sex I had with my wife seemed to be only her going through the motions. She seemed irritated by my hunger to have passion with her. I don't think it's an ego trip to feel good when others find us attractive but wondering why my wife doesn't seem to want me is very toxic for me. It leaves me feeling deficient which can put me in a place where I feel desperate for some kind of affirmation. And perhaps the least meaningful affirmation is the affirmation that is sought. Even though aging is catching up with my wife, I find myself very physically attracted to her and that has increased since when we first married. So I don't typically compare my attractiveness to hers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had terrible dreams last nite - probably from our company Xmas Party last nite - where MOW - danced the nite away - struttin her stuff - for my WH to dream about...This had me sooo mad that I was paying for this party and had to watch this tramp carry on like she owned the place - not me...In my dreams I confronted her and she didn't care..she berated me...she won..at least in my dreams.
Her BS/WS was involved in a scuffle which he was diffusing - she told people SHE DIDN"T CARE - she never checked to makde sure he was ok..she just kept dancing...They have been M for 20+ years.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This sounds like a nightmare in real life. I'm sorry for you to have to go through such an ordeal in an event that should be a happy occasion for you. Does hubby KNOW that you know about this affair or does he think he's kept it secret from you? Does MOW KNOW you know about it? Does MOW's husband know about the affair?

You mention at the end of your post a prayer that I find myself praying at least a couple of times a day, particularly when I am feeling very anxious, hopeless, or fearful. It has helped me so much. There are a couple of different versions of it that I will share with you:

God, Grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the Courage to change the things I can and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardship as the pathway to peace.

Taking, as Jesus did, this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it.

Trusting that He will make all things right if I surrender to His Will;

That I may be reasonably happy in this life,
and supremely happy with Him forever in the next.

Amen.

Many just pray the first 3 lines and that is considered the 'short version.' Some recovey groups add the following to the short version:
Grant me patience with the changes that take time,
an appreciation for all that I have, tolerance for those with different struggles, and the strength to get up and try again, one day at a time. May Thy will, not mine, be done.

XS - I think we agreed that my WH is looking to avoid true intimacy..Ie - childhood issues.

When I have WH followed I truly expected that he ws w/the girl from work..I was shocked beyond belief when I was told who this MOW was and where she lived. I couldn't imagine how he knew her.

I did call her (among others that were on his cell, home and work bills) since she refused to tell me ANYTHING - I contacted her BS - only to find that WH had an A w/her 14 years ago - that may have never ended. So yes, their A was all about secretacy - they were rescuing each other from empty marriages..This girl at work is the same scenerio rescue me - but, she wants it all she's gonna pressure him to D me..She wants the $$$...Let's make an A## out of (me) let's see how much she'll take - eventually thru enough embarrasement she'll walk..She doesn't care that my WH wil lose 1/2 of everything..She thinks the money just flows..but, that's because he lets her think that..dumb, dumb..

If he was a man of integrity - when it first started at work - he would have shut her down - he should know better than to bring it to work - heck, she could sue us. He should have told her - NO. He should have kept his secret life - a secret..I never would have known about the first MOW...

And yes, I see that entitlement that you mention in my WH. I think now that I have exposed him and I know and he knows that I know - what I'm dealing with, he JUST DOESN'T CARE...He comes and goes as he damn well pleases..with no excuses, nothing..Nothing he does is my business anymore..

I do not have children with WH or anyone. WH has 2 who were raised solely by their mother. D - 25
S -27...Yes, WH does live w/me. He's been in another bedroom for 8 months now. I don't cook, do laundry, etc. for him. The last time we did anything together was his D wedding (Sept 4th) and after that he was done w/me.

I have asked him nicely to leave - he won't..He feels if I'm unhappy I should leave. That's not going to happen..I will not leave my beautiful home because of him or some tramp..I will not leave my job - until the check for 1/2 the business is on the table..END OF SUBJECT...

As I said in a prior post - this will turn out to be all about money - it will no longer be about love..and the more he rubs my nose in it - the sooner that time will come.

I can bet that WH also feels very desirable w/MOW - knowing they are risking it all for him is another high for him. WH is a neat freak, perfectionist..which is desirable for many women. He's attractive - but not drop dead gorgeous..It's his neatness that I first noticed.

WH did tell me that I seemed like I was "faking it" sexually. My God, I love this man..Yes, we all fake orgasm now and then and as I said in a previous post - the sex was horrific even in the begining..I went from a very sexual husband - to a wham bam I'm outa here husband. Too intimate of touching seemed to turn him off..All this time I thought it was him so I never pressed..He's probably been having great sex w/o me for years.grrr.

I ran into an old BF last week, and I told him alittle about my situation - he was shocked - said that was one of the things he liked about me the most - I enjoyed it and never said no..and here I dealt w/a husband who said no alot..

My life along w/others here has been a real nitemare..There are days/nites that I just can't believe/grasp that all this has happened and I have NO POWER to stop it. Everytime I reached out to him - it bit me in the butt. He'd hurt me again..so I quit reaching out..Especially when I saw no remorse, no signs of this A's stopping..

I do believe a couple of the MOW I exposed him to have dumped him but I can't be sure. He may have smoothed it all over - saying I was nuts..

My Wh knows I know he's still w/MOW from work - he tries to hide it but she so smug and doesn't care about her BS/WS she doesn't care what I know. In fact, I'd say she's proud as a peacock that she's SC#(%##) the owner of the business and his dumb little wife just sits back (non-confrontational) and puts up w/it.

I think she knows about the other MOW - but, she doesn't care - she probably believes "she's special" hell, aren't they all..

Her husband was suspicios last year - my WH had to call her husband and tell him nothing was going on...Yeah right..I think he still watches her - but he travels so she gets out - her kids are a bit older. I think he is where I am - there is nothing we can do to stop it..

Before the party last nite - he said..Do you want to ride together or no??? I said, we didn't have to - so away he went. I thought about you - I dont' know why - but, I felt bad that I didn't ride w/him. That I was shutting him out like your wife can do to you and I felt guilty. Then I had to shake myself and say this man doesn't care about me anymore - he was saving face yet again for the party..that I was right to take my own car - we weren't going to save our M w/ a 10 min. car ride.

Thanks for the different versions of the prayers -though, God hasn't been listening to me much..Maybe, he thinks it's for the best..As the Garth Brooks song goes - he's thankful for Gods unanswered prayers. Maybe I should be too.


HUGS

XS and Letstry - So EXPOSURE did not work for me...It only empowered WH to say - I hate her...and to shut me out further...

I did not realize what I was dealing w/when I came to MB - this program can work for many people - for those w/serial cheats, etc. it doesn't work. I'm not dealing with an "average" cheating spouse.

And maybe I'm wrong - maybe this was all my fault..I drove him to cheat on me. I can't be 100% sure that he's a serial cheat - but, I would bet some money on it..

Let's Try....

I understand-I hear you-I feel your pain- I married a man much the same-I remember so well.

I want you feel God love a bit here- and am sending you e-card to comfort and brighten your world a bit!

God love you very much!

God bless and take care!

http://www.angelhugs.com/BestRemedy.html

Christ Love
my love
Sky

ItHurts

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WH did tell me that I seemed like I was "faking it" sexually. My God, I love this man..Yes, we all fake orgasm now and then and as I said in a previous post - the sex was horrific even in the begining..I went from a very sexual husband - to a wham bam I'm outa here husband. Too intimate of touching seemed to turn him off..All this time I thought it was him so I never pressed..He's probably been having great sex w/o me for years.grrr.

I ran into an old BF last week, and I told him alittle about my situation - he was shocked - said that was one of the things he liked about me the most - I enjoyed it and never said no..and here I dealt w/a husband who said no alot..
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I doubt very much that what your wh has been having without you is 'great' sex. From the way you desribe yourself in this post, if what he really wanted was great sex, he would've stayed home with you. Your words here make me sigh because BEFORE I ever strayed (and I more than just strayed, I ended up making the horrible choice of having virtually anonymous sexual encounters with women), I practically pleaded with my wife for more passion in our marriage. Her response was: 'your expectations are unrealistic; women don't want sex like men do.'

So why did your hubby look for sex elsewhere? Sometimes you hear people joke about how sex with a partner is great UNTIL they get married. Too often it isn't a very funny joke because it rings too true. I suppose the causes are many. Certainly resentment and anger are huge contributing factors. But I also think that some people get an addictive 'kick' out of illicit, secret affairs/encounters. I know that while I was involved there was a certain 'rush' to it. Certainly from where I am now I despise that rush. But even then, for me, it was a very temporary rush quickly replaced by self-loathing and shame. I am so thankful now to be living in sexual sobriety even though right now that means total celibacy. Sometimes I miss so much just being touched, being able to be affectionate with someone, the special magic of romance and physical intimacy. I am still trying to adjust my thinking to being in a season of life where I will not have any of that.

While there are similarities in our living situations (I was also asked to leave by wife but refused, I am staying in a separate bedroom...well, the basement now) there are also some differences: we both continue to do household chores which benefit each other. Depending on who cooks or does the laundry, both of us do all the laundry and do not exclude each others. On my wife's part, it could be that she is just trying to placate me until the holidays are over. She told me the other day that once the holidays are over she is going to forge ahead with the divorce. Tonight her mother is coming to join us for Christmas. That had been the plan for months but my mother-in-law declined to come after hearing about the impending divorce. Yesterday I called her and appealed for her to come any way....for my kids and yes, also for my wife. I promised to not put her in the middle between us and I promised to not let there be tension or ill-feeling in the air (as much as I can assure that myself). So she changed her mind and will arrive tonight. She is close to 80 and seems to be in pretty good health again (after some tough times earlier this year) but my thoughts are why should she, my wife, and my kids be deprived of what her presence would add because my wife is making the choices she is?

One last thought: in a burst of insight last night I think I realized why my wife has hardened her heart toward me. She has to or she will not be able to follow through with the divorce. She wants to harden her heart because there is so much pain in her heart associated with me and we tend to, as a self-protective measure, harden our hearts toward those who hurt us repeatedly. While I am not a perfect husband by any means, I do think the main source of pain I cause her is through the tormenting memories she has of what I told her about my infidelities and the shame she feels for having a husband who was unfaithful to her. She just can't get past those (mostly internal) sources of pain so she is doing what she can to put some distance between her and the pain. I do understand her pain and I am even trying hard to see that divorce may be the best thing for both of us. But it sucks to even think that way.

XS - You got it....Your BS is protecting herself against anymore hurt from you..It's probably not about following thru w/the divorce - it's more about protecting herself. She's in withdraw from you and what you have done to her. She has set a boundary and will not allow herself or you to cross it..That's just my take..

I say this because I too have FINALLY set a boundary..If you read back to all my posts and I look back at all I ever wanted in the past year or so- those wants have changed dramatically...I don't know how it happened but I too have "hardened my heart".

Your right again - about the "tormenting memories she has of what you told her of the infidelities -
That's why I don't want to know details - how many women, how long during our M this has really been going on, who they were. I know if I knew more facts - the pain would be worse for me, and I may not ever be able to forgive him - I want to forgive - whether it helps our M recover or not - I do not want to live my life tormented by his betrayal.

Your BS feeling shame for having a husband who was unfaithful to her - I can vouch for this too. I was always proud of my husband - I've now come to a point of embarrasment - Yes, there are many people that see him as this friendly, great guy who is a good boss,business man, etc. I don't see that..I see a man that has jeopardized his business for sex..who uses his status to get sex. A man that is weak and I am not proud I am ashamed of him and his weakness for MOW. This shame only surfaced when I "hardened my heart".

My goodness, can you imagine how your wife feels when she's out somewhere - standing next to someone in the bank, grocery store, etc. I know how she feels - not knowing if the person your standing next to has been someone your WH has slept w/or is planning to sleep with..You feel naked - stripped of your own dignity..and the only way to feel better is to block your WH out...

Believe me - it broke my heart not to buy him a Xmas card or a gift..But, I had to shut him out..in order to to pain free..

He got me a card - that was about Memories - he signed it Love $%# - I dont know if he was just in the "compartment" of Xmas - or if he meant it..He also got me a gift that I did not open...The gift I want he cannot give - so I want nothing else..I am NOT trying to hurt him - nor is your wife trying to hurt - she's protecting whats left of herself..

I feel the need to tell my WH what I NEED for a change..What matters to me - I know he will not be able to give up all the MOW nor his loser guy friend - but, I want him to know that I want nothing to do w/him and that I am shutting him out only to protect my heart. 6 months ago - I didn't feel this way - It scares me to see how strong I have become to him but I know what I want and I cannot settle for less anymore..I just can't..

As for him staying home and having great sex - no remember I'm the "mother" figure - he cannot ask,allow, etc. great sex from me. It must be basic - I belive in his eyes - I must be "perfect" and I wouldn't be if I did anything "sexual" that could be seen in his "eyes" as "dirty"..Even though, I dont' see it that way at all and never did. I thought oral sex, whatever, was normal in a relationship. I don't think he sees it that way at all.

2 years ago - he found out that I had sex (when I was younger/single) with a well known football player..Oh boy - should I even be telling this..I think that really bothered him though he only mentioned it 1 or 2 times to me in a teasing way. Maybe deep down he felt insecure about it - I don't know..Could that have caused him to stray to prove that he could have sex w/many women?? That he was as important as this football player??? I'm still searching for why he's gone off the deep end..

You've heard alot of stories from those w/addiction problems - what finally "broke" these people??? What made them face their demons?

For so long I wanted my WH back - and now - I am on the brink of where your BS is - just as it is easier for a WS to stray than to work on fixing the problem - it is becoming easier for the BS to block the pain of adultery and withdraw..

Yes, I miss being touched, affection, etc. but I fear it too..

HUGS...to you..

Oh - your right your wife/kids should NOT be deprived of enjoying her mothers company because of where your M is - that's one of my new boundaries - I will not allow him to deprive me ask him to participate w/me since he has choosen to continue to stray, but I won't give up what has made me happy in the past..

[[ITHURTS]],
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> don't know how it happened but I too have "hardened my heart". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Given what you have shared about your situation and your wh blatant disregard, I certainly understand how you have gotten to this point of hardening your heart. If I were in your place, I would probably do the same. Yet, having said that, I find myself thinking, 'don't let that happen to you....don't let his inhumanity to you make you inhumane.' I don't believe our hearts were made to be hardened and I do believe that hard
ening our hearts has a damaging effect on us. It certainly has on me when I've done it. Hardening your heart also gives wh the excuse he wants to justify his actions whereas finding a way to protect your heart without hardening would torment him with the sense that he is losing the best thing that has ever happened to him (YOU!).


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know if I knew more facts - the pain would be worse for me, and I may not ever be able to forgive him - I want to forgive - whether it helps our M recover or not - I do not want to live my life tormented by his betrayal.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good for you. I admire your desire and even determination to forgive. I am praying that my wife would find that for herself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My goodness, can you imagine how your wife feels when she's out somewhere - standing next to someone in the bank, grocery store, etc. I know how she feels - not knowing if the person your standing next to has been someone your WH has slept w/or is planning to sleep with..You feel naked - stripped of your own dignity..and the only way to feel better is to block your WH out...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do understand this torment. If blocking me out really provided a healthy solution then I think I would try to leave so she could get on with her life with peace.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me - it broke my heart not to buy him a Xmas card or a gift..But, I had to shut him out..in order to to pain free..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We did exchange gifts yesterday. I gave her diamond stud earrings (my daughter helped her 'clueless about jewelry' dad pick them out), a box of Fannie Mae mint meltaways, a $50 gift card to Michael's, and a stuffed animal. She gave me a flashlight (wind up kind that never needs batteries or bulbs) and a hoodie shirt.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel the need to tell my WH what I NEED for a change..What matters to me - I know he will not be able to give up all the MOW nor his loser guy friend - but, I want him to know that I want nothing to do w/him and that I am shutting him out only to protect my heart. 6 months ago - I didn't feel this way - It scares me to see how strong I have become to him but I know what I want and I cannot settle for less anymore..I just can't..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree that you should tell him what you need however he may respond. When you don't say anything, it may give the impression you have written him off before you really have. I would encourage you to be as specific as possible as to what you need him to do, when you want him to do it, and why you want him to do it. The reward is the possibility of saving your marriage. YOU are the reward and you must not allow his disregard of you to make you doubt that you are indeed a very desireable reward.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for him staying home and having great sex - no remember I'm the "mother" figure - he cannot ask,allow, etc. great sex from me. It must be basic - I belive in his eyes - I must be "perfect" and I wouldn't be if I did anything "sexual" that could be seen in his "eyes" as "dirty"..Even though, I dont' see it that way at all and never did. I thought oral sex, whatever, was normal in a relationship. I don't think he sees it that way at all.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><sigh> It's hard for me to read this. I don't relate at all to the 'mother figure' thing. My biggest problem with my wife in the area of SF was her inhibition. She considered oral disgusting and dirty and out of the question. I consider it a normal part of delighting in each other's bodies and a very special way of expressing intimacy and desire.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2 years ago - he found out that I had sex (when I was younger/single) with a well known football player..Oh boy - should I even be telling this..I think that really bothered him though he only mentioned it 1 or 2 times to me in a teasing way. Maybe deep down he felt insecure about it - I don't know..Could that have caused him to stray to prove that he could have sex w/many women?? That he was as important as this football player??? I'm still searching for why he's gone off the deep end..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did he find out? It is very possible that he felt insecure unless you were able to affirm him (and given what you've said about SF with him that might've been difficult.) Many of us men want to feel like we are extraordinary lovers who satisfy our wives more than any other man could. The problem is that is only attainable through emotional and relational intimacy and not through our technique, physique, etc... I've been a weightlifter since my teens and after we got married, my physique seemed to mean very little to her while I often received attention and comments from other women about it. That bothered me. Now I realize that a lot of my thinking about sex was much more about lust than love, more about objectifying my wife and myself than celebrating real union with each other. Part of his response to this revelation may depend on exactly what kind of encounter you had with this football player. Was he a sexual conquest for you and you for him? How do you look back on that experience? What does it say about how you view yourself?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've heard alot of stories from those w/addiction problems - what finally "broke" these people??? What made them face their demons?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For most it was something that made them face up to the devastation their addiction was bringing on themselves and others. The threat of divorce or broken relationships, career complications, disease, mental health consequences, financial consequences, etc.... That's what breaks people. Support, acceptance, compassion, and courage is what makes them face their demons.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For so long I wanted my WH back - and now - I am on the brink of where your BS is - just as it is easier for a WS to stray than to work on fixing the problem - it is becoming easier for the BS to block the pain of adultery and withdraw..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was 'lucky' in that I was not emotionally involved with anybody when d-day happened. But the desire to run was powerful. It would've been much easier in the short-term and much harder in the long term....I think. Sometimes I wonder if I would've run or been involved, if things would've been 'worse' for my wife, if she would've been more desiring of 'winning' me. I read so many posts here of spouses who are plan Aing to get their mates back from OP and sometimes I think those are the ws who are wanted while those of us who change our ways are not. This is probably just my discouragement coming through but I have thought that way. So here I am trying everything I can to meet my wife's EN while my most important EN (SF, affection, companionship) are totally unmet. So every day I have to deal with thoughts to 'go back out there.'

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I miss being touched, affection, etc. but I fear it too..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you fear it? Does your husband ever try to touch you or express affection? Sometimes I fear that I would fall too hard and too fast for someone who came along and touched me or expressed affection for me. Often I don't know what is a healthy and legitimate longing for SF and what is an addictive craving for a 'fix.' When I got married I never dreamed that I would be struggling with these kinds of things.

I wish for you during this holiday season, a heart full of confidence in yourself for who you are and who you are becoming through this experience, full of hope for a future in which you will once again share love, even though it is uncertain right now how or when that will happen. I wish these things for myself too.

XS - Thanks for your reply and encourgement..

Hardened my heart - I have only hardened to towards him and his activities - I no longer cry when I know he's been w/OW..or stays our drinking.

Whether I tried to be a loving spouse or not - he found a way to justify his actions nothing I do works..Please, how do you jump out of bed on a Thursday w/MOW then Tues. buy your BS a 30K diamond ring to celebrate your anniversary????

How do I protect my heard w/o hardening - how do I torment him into seeing that he is losing the best thing that has ever happended to him???

No matter what he's done to me - if he's needed me for his supposed heart attack, drunk, his daughters wedding, etc. No I'm not there for the day to day stuff - because he doesn't want that from me...I've stepped up - forgotten what he's done and BEEN THERE FOR HIM..Yet, he is still blind to the fact the I am a damn good woman..that even though he has cheated repeatedly I have not lowered myself to that level..I have held my head high - and moved forward.

I dont' know what all you told your wife about your A's - I know MB says to tell all - but some of us BS can't handle it..

Sounds like you were very good to your wife for Xmas and got her gifts that were picked w/love and good thoughts. Hopefully, she noticed.

Is there any way you can take a trip together - divorce papers or not - just the two of you??? Try to renew or rebuild what might be left inside of her..Can you ask her to go away w/you?? Tell her you need this time w/her pending divorce or not - you need another day/time w/her.

As for telling him my needs and him seeing it as a "reward" and the possiblity of saving our marriage -- I don't know where this man stands at all..I haven't a clue what he wants..His actions show that he still wants that cage door open - he wants his freedom..Which he can have - but, I can't be there anymore - but, w/so many other women why would he need/want me??? I just want him to know where I am even if he can't voice/tell the truth as to where he is.

As for your wife finding oral sex as disgusting/dirty - I have heard other men say the same thing. I don't know where women heard this in their upbringing..How can they not think then that all sex is dirty??? IMHO - it's a basic of sexual relations. Maybe she just doesn't like doing it for whatever reason..Everyone has different forms of pleasure - I would think that most caring/loving couples would do what it takes (only drawing the line at extremes) to make their life partner SF even if it wasn't a priority on their own list. None of girls thought it was great the first time we did it..hahhah..

WH found out about my past sexual encounter - over drinks one nite - my cousins blabbed..in a joking way..My WH and I never discussed our prior sexual lifestyle or who we dated, etc. Those discussions just never came up. Neither of us wanted to know about the others past.

WH always told me that he had compliments about how he kissed, had sex and danced..Almost seems funny now - since I never thought he was anything special in the sex dept. WH never ever tried to be an extraordinary lover to me..He never asked what I wanted or needed..I'd ask him and he'd say everything was fine..Liar, Liar..

As for your wife not commenting on your physique, sometimes we take you guys for granted - we don't think that you need to be told how good you look to us..We assume since we married you - that says it all..Guess we should be more open w/compliments..hindsight...

As for when WH heard about my encounter - I was like - quiet - don't bring this up - No, he didn't know about this..I ws shocked my cousin would openly (though a couple drinks in her) bring this up..The rest of the nite - we still had alot of fun together..laughing, drinking..

It was a ONS - I wanted this guy bad..I was attracted to him for a long time..He was a goal I had..and I achieved it..that's it..it was the past - I wasn't a tramp but I did want this guy..

I guess the threat of divorce, disease, finances, families torn apart hasn't broken him yet. When I first found out about his A's I tried to be supportive, found him an IC which he never went to. Leading me to believe he didn't/doesn't want to change. That's why in my prior posts I've said he's heartless..nothing, seems to get to him..His emotions are turned off and that's it..If he is borderline narcissist then nothing will ever break him..

I believe if he would have only been w/one other women it would be easier for me to battle for our marriage - I would have Plan A'd my butt off - this man has a sickness and he doesn't want to get well..

Let's put the shoe on the other foot - would you want your wife back if she had been the one to have a sexual addiction? If you knew she had many encounters? I don't think my husband would have put up w/one let alone many...He would use it as an excuse to cheat on me..He would have filed for a divorce long ago..He says he never has checked on me - why - because he knows me and knows there is NO reason to check on me..and maybe I'm wrong - maybe he wouldn't care if I have SF elsewhere..

Why do I fear being touched, affection, etc? If it was from WH I now fear that I must compete w/ the MOW or that his touch is not from missing me it is fake, he feels nothing for me and is going thru the motions. Pretending so that I do not file for D so that he doesn't lose any money, house, etc.
But, he has not touched or kissed me for so long now that I know I would break down and cry if he did. The last time was our anniversay (Sept) and that's because I reached out to him and I cried - I hugged him w/all that I had..I told him I couldn't take this anymore..and when I touched his hair - and he said - Dont' touch the hair..you know I don't like my hair messed with..I knew I was dealing w/a nut case..A man that had not been near his wife in so long yet feared his hair would get messed up..PLEASE...how can your frickin hair matter when your marriage is going down the toilet???

Since I don't have an addiction to SF I cannot help you determine what is a healthy longing/feeling from what is a "fix"..I guess trying to separate the two is very hard..Would it come from how you feel afterwards??? Wouldn't you have a bad feeling if it was a "fix" ?

Do you and your wife still touch? kiss? even in a friendly way? Heck, my WH use to give me a peck on the check b-4 he went out to meet MOW - so when is it sincere and when is it to cover up what your doing??

Thanks for the well wishes..and I wish you well too and that things get better for you, that your wife puts sees the New You...this New Year...

HUGS