Okay...need to learn to control the anger building in me. Never been good at controlling it. Really wanting right now to jump in my car and drive down and pay the happy couple a visit, but last time I did that, there were threats of a restraining order... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I don't know how to conduct business with two people who won't respond to me. I can't run everything through a $180/hour attorney all the time. So because they won't answer their phones, I emailed. Need to know:

*Where is child support for December? He gets paid weekly and I've received nothing.

*Where are daughter's orthodontia reimbursements for last 2 months?

*Where is reimbursement for 1/2 of son's wisdom teeth romoval?

*Where are the deeds XH signed and notarized that I am supposed to get back so that I can file them with the county (and have my house in my name and my parents life estate without his name on it)?

*Why hasn't the joint credit card been closed? Supposed to be closed within 7 days of the DV per the decree. Because HE is the primary card holder, freakin' bank won't let me close it or make changes. (I should have probably refused to sign the divorce papers until it was closed--hindsight is 20/20.)

*When will I receive the $1,250 that I have to pay the attorney who did the retirement split for XH and I (different than my DV attorney). I have to pay the attorney because he is the attorney for MY retirement plan and I contracted with him, but XH was supposed to pay me back the full cost.

*Where is 1/2 of the remaining cost of the DV for for my attorney (again spelled out in the DV decree--he is responsible for half of all legal fees)?

*And when is XH going to pay the small balance that is on the joint card. Hasn't made a payment in a couple months. Think we were paid ahead, but shortly going to put a blemish on my totally perfect credit.

Sooooo.....I log in to the credit card to see if it's been paid and low and freakin' behold what do I see???? There is a charge on 12/19 to a jeweler!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> On a card that should have been closed a month ago!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Okay, it's just under $500. But if I get stuck with buying HER jewelry I'm going to be LIVID!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> You will see me on the news!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

(Additionally, I'm ticked because he never spent that much on anything of mine...even my engagement ring. So even if it's an engagement ring for her, it's more expensive than mine was! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

So I call him just now. Again, no answer. I left a message. I was calm. I did not curse. I did not cry. I did not yell. But I have no doubt he could feel the heat coming from me.

What the H*** do I do?!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> This is really p*ssing me off!!!! I want to scream, but that's pointless. I'm angry at him for being such a spineless chicken. Angry at her for being a b*tch. And angry at the bank because they tie the hands of the person who is joint on a card that shouldn't even be open anymore.

LL

<small>[ December 29, 2004, 11:26 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL,

Well I'm sure you know you did the right thing by venting here and not there.

I'm really sorry that you need to deal with this [censored].

Won't the credit card company take your D Decree into consideration?

One way or another, the $180 an hour for the lawyer sounds like a better deal for you.

I wish I only had to pay 180. I get hit with $300 an hour but I guess thats all relative to where you are.

(((((Lords Lady)))))

Hang in there! there is a better life for you coming!

And I think a better idea for that tatoo would be "kiss Me" right on your >>>> Well just for him!
WIWH

<small>[ December 21, 2004, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: WishI WereHome ]</small>

Won't the credit card company take your D Decree into consideration?

Not sure, actually. The last time I called them was right before the DV was final. Then the happy couple went to Paris and I got busy and hadn't thought a lot about it until I was in my bank website a few days ago and realized they hadn't paid off the balance and it was still showing as an active account. Maybe I'll try and call them tomorrow.

I really am not holding a grudge about his initial walking out on his kids and me. I am angry about this B.S. crap he keeps pulling!

Since the account is still open and I still have online access to view transactions and make payments (not close it, unfortunately), I requested a copy of the jeweler's receipt. The company will bill me $5 for the copy, and it'll be billed to the card. I initially hesitated--then said "What the heck?! He's still got the account open. What do I care?"

So if he balks, I'll pay the $5. But I want to know exactly WHAT he bought her on my credit. I'm nosey. Too bad the copy can take up to 30 days to arrive. I'm not patient!

LL

Take him to small claims court if he doesn't pay the credit card payment he owes.

Sorry LL ... he's been a real creep for way too long. This too shall pass.

((( hugs )))

Pep

And I think a better idea for that tatoo would be "kiss Me" right on your >>>>

I'm a bit punchy tonight. It's good the wind chill is below zero right now or I might be inclined to find an all-night parlor to help me out with this one!

LL

LL,

You might want to call the company or bank about the credit card again. The divorce shouldn't matter one way or the other, and neither should his being primary on the card.

They won't close the account without the balance being paid off, and may not "close" it without him doing it anyway, since he is primary.

And I can see them not increasing a credit limit or anything without him requesting it.

BUT.... since your name is on the card, you are obligated to make sure it is paid for. Going along with that, I don't see how they can force you to be further obligated without your consent.

What do I mean by that? They may not close the account at your say so, but you should be able to tell them that you refuse any further charges on that account. I don't remember what they call that, but they don't consider the account closed - they just stop allowing further charges to be made on that card.

I did this well before the divorce on a card my X had with both our names on it. He was the primary, it was at his credit union, and I didn't know about it even. He said I signed for it, but I don't remember having done so, and don't think I did. The credit union may have set up the card in conjunction with a loan which I did sign, however... that's the only thing I can figure, unless my x lied and forged my signature (which is certainly possible.)

At any rate, shortly after he moved out of the house, I found out about the card. I did nothing about it while we were trying to reconcile, but after I found out he had never quit living with OW, I called the credit union to close the account. They told me the same thing - that I couldn't close it. I explained the situation, and they said that the account could be .... something, I don't remember the term they used. But it meant no more charges could be made on the card. They did require me to request that in writing before they would do it.

Check again. Even though you originally agreed to the card, and can't get out of being obligated on charges that were already made, they can't make you continue to be responsible for further charges if you don't want to be. It won't help you for the jewelry he already used the card for, but it means nothing else will be put on there.

Oh, and if you do get this taken care of, I wouldn't bother to tell him. If he gets a surprise one day trying to use the card.... he shouldn't have been using it anyway, right? If he confronts you about it, just tell him that since he hadn't taken care of it, you assumed he had been to busy to do so, so you did it.

Sound advice Penguin.

However, since LL said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I requested a copy of the jeweler's receipt. The company will bill me $5 for the copy, and it'll be billed to the card. I initially hesitated--then said "What the heck?! He's still got the account open. What do I care?"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Closing the account may not fly with the CC company.
Now she, too, has used the card that was "Supposed to be closed within 7 days of the DV per the decree."
Technically, it appears she is in violation of the divorce decree as much as he is.

I wouldn't even bring the divorce decree into it when I called the credit card company, because it shouldn't come into it.

Being a co-signer on the card means she should be able, at any time, to say she doesn't want any more cost obligated in her name.

And.... I just did a quick search, and came up with another little helpful tidbit. I just saw a site that advises in a divorce to immediately close or freeze all joint accounts. It also said that if the bank refuses to close a joint account, report the card stolen, which will effectively disable the account.

I also just read this from the Chase bank web site:

"By law, a creditor cannot close a joint account because of a change in marital status, but can do so at the request of either spouse. A creditor, however, does not have to change joint accounts to individual accounts. The creditor can require you to reapply for credit on an individual basis and then, based on your new application, extend or deny you credit."

Every site on divorce advice I've ever seen advises closing joint accounts, and even if you aren't primary on an account, the bank should not be able to tell you that a card you are obligated to pay for can continue to be used and there's nothing you can do about it. If you are responsible, you can also refuse to accept responsibility for additional charges.

LL, if you call the credit card company and the person tells you they can't freeze (or whatever they call it) the account because you aren't the primary, ask for a supervisor. Make it clear that you aren't asking for your name to be taken off of the debt that already exists, just that you want that account to be closed to any further use.

Here's a pretty good article on this kind of thing; especially read the section called "Contact the creditor."

MSN money article

<small>[ December 22, 2004, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: penguin ]</small>

OK, LL, great to vent here. Now, how do you get this stuff done? You keep asking.
Since he won't engage verbally, type out a letter including all outstanding issues and email or fax it to him. I even include subcategories now.
Write the letter with facts only, and with specific amounts requested. Once you've written this letter, have a friend read it and edit to take out any negative language.

Treat it as a business relationship now. The letter is proof that you are trying to communicate with him, and resolve issues without legal assistance. His lack of response will look bad.
I send faxes so that I can get the fax confirmation sheets. This is very important regarding school holidays and vacations too.

Good Luck.

Okay, first...the credit card. I called their 800# and was told once again that they can't do a thing. Doesn't matter what statutes say, blah, blah... However, they did tell me that if ex tries to stick me with the 12/19 charge and my DV documents state the account was to be closed in November, I should be able to fight it in court.

They told me to contact my local bank branch and see what they can do, so I'm back around to square one again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

As for the credit limit, it's already WAY too high. Its $11,000 and the card had less than $100 on it at the time we DV. That's the danger. If it only had a $1,500 credit limit, I wouldn't be as worried.

My ex did call me this morning...angry as usual, and sick as well with his annual bronchitis (and apparently his company hasn't come thru with health insurance yet so he can't go to the dr.) He said, "I told you I'd settle up with you after I get my Christmas bonus!!" Okay, he did say that about the attorney fee for the QDRO--but I wanted confirmation that they were still planning it. None of the other payments due me fell under the "Christmas bonus" umbrella, nor did the new charge on the card.

He says he won't stick me with it. I said, "What if you don't get a Christmas bonus?" Says he'll get 2 jobs. I doubt that, and I doubt I'd ever see payment. Well, today's the day he'll get the bonus if he gets one, so I may call him tonight and say, "When can I stop by and pick up the checks due me and the deeds to the property?"

-------------------------------------------------

As for transacting business...

Since he won't engage verbally, type out a letter including all outstanding issues and email or fax it to him.

Email was what I was trying to do first. I sent him the latest email list of items needing resolution on Sunday and had no response back by last night. OW is the one who gets the emails, and she ignores them.

I'm not even sure his auto shop owns a fax. They're a really small independent business. They just started accepting credit cards this year. And the only computer they own is the one that runs the alignment program he uses. (Nice people overall, but the owners, one of whom still works the office, are in their 70's so it's very archaic.)

I could do certified letters. That's what I was going to do before they gave me their email address a couple months ago. Maybe I go back to that. They still won't answer them, but I would have proof that they signed for something if I sent them return receipt.

I am not addressing vacations and school holidays at all because he is making no effort to be involved with his daughter at this point. I no longer think it's my job to strategize on how to get the two of them together. If he wants to see her, he'll call. If she wants to see him, she'll let him know. He hasn't mentioned Christmas--I'm sure because he's p*ssed about the $400 plane ticket he ate when she changed her mind about going to Paris with them.

And I'm working VERY hard on coming up with a budget that I can live on that will not require child support to survive. I'm not there yet, but when I change jobs in February, I may be able to squeak by--if I never eat out, quit doing my nails, and cut what I'm giving my church to next to nothing. It will work, if nothing big in my house needs replaced for a while and if I can get my daughter (for whom math is pretty much impossible) to understand what "We don't have the money for that!" means.

LL

LL,

Look, I feel for you... I actually feel like I am in your shoes much of the time with my WW. I get NO response, NO respect, I can't even get her to follow thru on what she agrees to IN COURT! So, take heart in knowing you are not alone!

As for your issues... I think Newly was right on track. You need to get serious with this whole situation. Start keeping some REALLY stellar records on all of your communication. Like, today, send him a nice proffesionally written letter stating your case and reitterating what the D decree said. Point out to him that he has a set amoutn of time (say...2 weeks) to clear this up or you will be filing a complaint with the court showing him to be in CRIMINAL CONTEMPT OF COURT. If he is willingly avoiding his responsibilities with regards to the divorce decree... that is criminal contempt. This is not for you to enforce... so let the courts do it, that's what they are there for.

You see this puts the ball DEEPLY in his court. The responsibility is his to respond and follow thru accordingly.

If however, he keeps ignoring you and blowing you off... YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW THRU!!!! You do not have to be treated this way... so don't! Trust me... he will only have to be chastised by a judge once or twice to get the message. Then he will realize that he has to take this serious or he is going to jail.

Do what ya gotta do...


...and have a Merry Christmas. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ December 22, 2004, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: Want My Wife Back??? ]</small>

I agree with everyone, but I'm easy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Why not send a letter as Newly and WMWB say and then if nothing happens, follow Penguins advice. Report the card stolen! If he say's anything to you about it all you have to say is the account was supposed to be closed and when you saw that there were more charges on it you assumed that someone else must have gotten hold of it!

Just watch out for the threats and don't start playing dirty too soon. You want to get what you are entitled to from him before you piss him off.

Good luck and Happy Holidays!

WIWH

I can't report the card stolen. Why? Because I know it wasn't and I CAN'T LIE!!! At least not intentionally. Just a little "issue" that has happened to me over the years. I'm hoping it's God working in me.

As for p*ssing him off, I spoke with him today and asked if he still thinks he's going to get a bonus. (I just left a message that said "call me before you leave work". I'm guessing he thought something was wrong). He still is hopeful that he'll get it tomorrow (I forgot he was working tomorrow--thought today was the day).

So, I'm waiting until the end of tomorrow. Depending on how that turns out (if he calls me or not), we'll see how I proceed.

LL

I do still recomend following Penguin's lead. Check more into it with the credit companies. If Joe Shmoe on the 800 number can't help you, ask to talk to his manager.

Was it a joint application that you signed or did H have a second card issued in your name.

If it is just a second card in your name, you may not be liable anyway.

<small>[ December 22, 2004, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: WishI WereHome ]</small>

Joint--because I make more $ than my XH does, so we always use my income to get loans, financing, etc.

But because he was the MAN, he was always listed as the primary on everything, right down to our phone bill. They had to cancel our phone account and open a new one for me, and charge me the new account fees (which I called and balked at), even though the # didn't change and I was always on the old account.

Very annoying being the woman in a man's world sometimes!

I started learning very late in the game, always have myself listed first on everything, even if the salesperson questions it or tries to tell me it doesn't matter.

LL

<small>[ December 22, 2004, 10:34 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

I do think I stand a pretty fair chance of not being held responsible for his bills based on what the guy at the CC company said. The DV decree is very clear. The respondent (him) is responsible for any charges on the joint MC#xxxx after the date the divorce was filed (august) and that he will close the account within 7 days of the final decree. His signature was signed and notarized on the decree which was signed by a judge and file-stamped. It's pretty darned clear who is accepting responsibility.

LL

When my brother in law died, his creditors tried real hard to make us believe they could force us to pay. Well, they couldn't, but you'd have never known it from the way they acted. We had to remind them that we had no legal or financial obligation for him or his debts. If I were you I'd make THEM prove you are responsible which of course they can't do.

Divorce decrees are a matter of public record, I believe. (At least here in MN they are). So, you can tell them to go get themselves a copy if they want a record for their files. We did this re: death certs, which you had to pay for. We told the creditors if they needed one, they could get one and pay for it themselves. We did not owe them the $$ and were not obligated to furnish them with a death cert either.

Once we put our collective feet down, they all went away. However, about 2 years later, the dead BIL started getting offers for credit cards since he now had such good credit over the past couple of years! Too funny!

Anyway, stand your ground. You owe nothing. Nobody can make you pay it.

ll, I admire your unwillingness to lie but I have no similar qualms myself. When my STBX was running up huge charges after he moved in with MOW, I called all our credit card companies and reported all cards stolen, then had only one card reissued in my name only. That way, he could open new accounts, but they'd be SEPARATE from mine. I'm still stuck with owing 1/2 of the close to $50,000 that he spent in first few months of separation. In fact, I've already paid ALL the bills in the last 4 years in order to protect my/our credit. I also went to a lawyer and, with the help of our one other officer, had him voted off the board of directors for our business, then closed all bank accounts and reopened them in my name only. If I hadn't done these things, we'd probably be bankrupt by now. Because of my protection of our money, I've been able to run our business alone and he's been able to avoid work and receive a regular check for the past four years. One thing this whole experience has given me is a much more sensitive sh*t detector and the willingness to stick up for and take care of myself!

Despite all this, I got a bill this week, addressed to both of us at my address, from a collection agency for an unpaid bill of his since separation. I've called and left a message and we'll see what happens...

Ok LL, I'm going to get a little tough with you on the credit card issue.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You have to be AGGRESSIVE when you are dealing with these companies and they are not doing things the right way. You don't take no for an answer, you keep repeating what you want over and over and over and over. Say it differently every time, but say the same thing, and keep on saying it. Bump up to a supervisor.

Everything I was told by my lawyer, by others that went through all this, etc., is that if your name is on the debt, the credit card companies WILL come after you. And that the divorce decree is an agreement between you and your ex, and does not relieve you in any way with the credit card company. As far as they are concerned, you made the original agreement with them to pay, and that's all they care about.

But by the same token, they cannot force you to accept new charges on an account. Which is what they are doing if they refuse to freeze that account. You have to make it clear that you aren't talking about closing the account, just about freezing it to all future charges. That you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT authorize any further charges on the card. And you will have to follow it up in writing.

If you aren't getting any satisfaction with the 1-800 number, try getting ahold of the issuing bank. Thought the 1-800 number should take care of things. Who is the issuer of the card? Maybe I can help you out in getting this done - I'm pretty good at making these places see it my way.

Start threatening them. Have you talked to your lawyer? S/he should know how this is supposed to work. Threaten to go to the state regulatory agency about it. But more than anything, get a supervisor. The person you first get on the line when you call is probably clueless about handling anything more than an occasional late payment, telling you what the balance is, etc. Don't even bother telling your story to the first person you get - just tell them you have a problem you have been unable to resolve so far, you've called several times, and you wish to speak to a supervisor. And don't take no for an answer on that.

I know I'm really beating on this one - but this is one of the biggest financial problems for people going through a divorce. It sounds like this card has already gotten out of hand - but it could get worse. It can really screw up your credit and cause you major problems. Get tough and kick some credit card butt! And don't feel bad about it - the credit card companies have gotten VERY predatory, and don't hesitate to do anything they can to take more of your money.

Also - make sure you get copies of your credit reports from all three credit agencies, and check them carefully. Especially if your ex has trouble getting credit without your salary being considered. It is EXTREMELY easy for someone to get credit in both spouses names. And the companies won't check to see if you're divorced. Granted, if he did something like that, it would be fraud, and you should be able to get out of being liable for it eventually, but it will be a lot of hassle and possibly cost you some money in the process. And if you're having trouble getting the CC company just to freeze this one account, it might be next to impossible to take care of the problems if he gets more credit in both of your names.

I don't want to scare you.... ok, I lied. Yes I do. Because making sure your credit is cleaned up, taken care of, and wiped free of his existance is one of the most important things you can do in this mess. A little persistance now can save you a whole lot of heartache in the future.

Penguin, the card is through Commercial Federal which is where I do most of my banking, so I'll go to a branch over vacation and see if I can accomplish anything more in person.

-------------------------------------------------
Had just a lovely (not!) conversation with OW tonight. Today is the day XH would get his Christmas bonus if he gets one. Since I'm setting on a couple thousand $ in bills owed to me and could REALLY use the money, I called at 4:45pm, wanting to catch him before he got home. As usual, he didn't answer his cell. So about 15 minutes later I tried the shop # and happened to get him.

He was grumpy and short and told me he hadn't opened the envelope yet. He promised to call when he did, as I want to know where I stand financially in case I decide to do anything with the house over my week off.

No call--of course. So I called OW's cell about an hour later.

Her "hello?" was pleasant. Then she heard my voice and turned into the evil bimbo from Hades. She refused to tell me if he got a bonus and told me I needed to deal with him. (Uh..I would if HE would talk to me instead of avoiding.) And she accused me of not caring about him and only caring about $ and told me that's why he ignores me. Well, if he'd pay things he owes me on a timely basis and close that card, he might never hear another money reference again. Sorry...it's hard to call and say, "Well how are the two of you doing. Got fun Christmas plans do you???"

Finally she admitted he got one, but snapped, "It's not what you think it is!" Okay, so the boss is still unhappy with the way he's living his life and still penalized him by way of a small Christmas bonus. It's a tiny shop--they can do that!

So I tried to get confirmation as to whether or not he was going to pay me the amounts he owes per the DV decree. And she says something to the effect that all I care about is that decree.

At which point I shot back, "Well, it is a LEGAL document that HE signed and that the judge signed. He agreed to things by way of that document. Do you want to go back to court?"

She responds, "And that document says he gets his daughter 2 weekends per month."

Wow! She walked right into this one. "Take her, then!" I shot back. It was XH who didn't want to mess with it because she won't follow their rules.

Okay--OW has then told me that I have to be able to guarantee she's available on those nights--that it's MY responsibility. Hmmm....that's not in the decree, so I told her that XH could work that out with his daughter but to let me know what schedule works and I'd be happy to work with it.

But she kept snapping about having to go (she's on a cell for goodness sake--it's not going to go dead if she walks out the door!) and I being the royal *itch I can be sometimes refused to be kind and thoughtful until she could guarantee that I would get paid back.

I am feeling guilty for my un-Christian language, but she really makes me angry!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Once upon a time I thought there was maybe some good in her, but I'm not seeing it anymore.

So one of her final comments was, "You're just mad because XH took me to Paris and bought me an engagement ring for Christmas!"

(Well...there was the confirmation of what I suspected when I saw the jewelry charge on my card. And yes, it does hurt a lot more than I expected. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> A lovely Christmas memory to carry forward for me.)

But I told her that I wasn't angry about what he did but will be VERY angry if I end up paying for her ring (and I hope that idea would taint the ring in her eyes, too!).

After much arguing, she sort of said that if I'd send them all the bills (I have them copied and ready) that XH would probably pay me.

So...I'm going to the post office tomorrow and sending certified return receipt. And he BETTER sign for the package and not ignore it. I told her that I then expect payment by no later than December 31st.

I guess if that happens, I have to be content. If it doesn't, you all may see me on the news!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

LL

<small>[ December 23, 2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>