Hi all! I hope I am in the right place. Lord knows I have been trying.

Avondale: Thanks for your post to get me in the right place. At least, I hope I am in the right place. At your family reunion, I would not volunteer any info about your D. Just play dumb!

Wallace: Interesting about your OD's birthday, my birthday was on Sunday. I cannot blame you for not wanting to be in the same room as your former, but I think you don't want to go to the wedding because of your OD living situation. You don't approve of it, and you may not want to give it any legitimacy. You may have to swallow you gut if you want to ever see your grand kids. Not showing up at the wedding is a big deal that will send a big message. Don't let your former get an even more upper hand on you with the OD.

Trusting: What are the "papers" referring to? D papers?

Hi Leah!

Me: Tax season over! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Got annulment! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />Looking to future! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Later!

Yippee!!! [color:"red"] Petvet [/color] is here!!! What's in your future? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Wallace [/color] - You and I cross-posted. I think Petvet is right, how much of your reluctance has to do with your ExW and how much has to do with your OD's living with the guy after you told her you disapproved? Now I'm sure you are familiar with the parable of the Prodigal Son...and since you and I both have older kids, I'm probably not saying anything new here. But my personal take is this:
You should go to the wedding even if your ExW is there. I know it will be difficult. You are the one who has EVERY reason to hold your head high and let HER be the uncomfortable one. [color:"purple"] But the wedding isn't about you (and your feelings), it's about your OD's big day. [/color] If you don't go, that very fact is what your OD and your other kids will remember. Also, isn't it better that she's getting married than living with the guy? After all, they have lived together for 2 years. Maybe the marriage WILL work after all. But I really think you should go, regardless of whether your ExW is there or not. If you don't go, there is no way to undo that after the wedding date is passed.

[color:"red"] Trusting [/color] - You said:
It takes an unselfish man to recognize that. Good for you!

Amen to what PetVet and Avondale said. If you don't go you can be rest assured that it will be remembered for a very long time.

She's still your daughter and she needs/wants you there for her BIG day.

~~~~~~~~



[color:"blue"] Petvet[/color] I tried to remember about "papers" but could not recall. Was there a particular place where I can go and read again. (or just bury my head in the sand <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )

Hi All,

[color:"red"]Petvet... [/color]

I'm glad to see you made it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I was wondering about the "Tough Love" thread scenario when I saw two of them there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Thank goodness [color:"red"]avondale [/color] dialed into what I was starting to suspect... that you couldn't find the real thread.

Well glad your back and thanks for the advice on my OD.

In fact thank you all for your great advice.

I'm pretty stubborn once my mind is made up... but with your responses... I decided to change it... I'm going to go.

You are all correct... I shouldn't feel the way that I do.

I'm going to tell my OD that I will go... but I really do not want to see her Mother there.

She said that she is not inviting her Mother (I hope she doesn't... because I think it will ruin everyone's spirits), and if she does... I don't think I can sit in the same room with her and her new "H". It will take everything I have to just sit there and not make my presents known.

I have eaten a lot of dirt because of those two people.

As I have stated... I'm not in any big hurry for any family get togethers that would include their Mother.

Well I hope everyone is having a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"red"] Wallace [/color] - I'm glad you changed your mind. I didn't realize (or forgot) your ExW had remarried. I'm guessing you will be able to bring a date; would it help you by having your G/F there too (or would that be too much to deal with)?

A lot can (and will) happen with your OD during the next year of their engagement, and all this worry might be for nothing. They could break up, elope, etc...You just need to decide how much (if any) $$ you want to help her with for the wedding. Perhaps her mother would like to share the cost or something?? Or maybe your daughter wants to have a simple ceremony. Either way, your involvement to some degree is the right thing to do.

Hi avondale,

Yep, my exW got remarried about (and I'm guessing) about a year ago. She married the Clown she was having an "A" with.

They have been living in a one bedroom apartment in Southeast Denver for at least a year now and counting. She "M" a real loser IMO, I heard through the grapevine that he was suppose to go to Jail, for embezzlement, but the woman he was with at the time decided to drop the charges, if he would stay with her. She dropped the charges, and my exW took off with him.
They will feed off each other before it's all said and done with... they both in fact deserve each other.

Your right... a lot can happen in one year! I was suppose to get "M" back in September of last year... but as you can see... I'm still single.

We are going to wait until all the kids are out of the house before we decide to take the plunge.

I'll probably take my G/F to the wedding if and when it happens. So hopefully you can see the picture that I'm trying to paint here. It has ugly written all over it... me with my G/F, and my exW there with her new "H", at my OD's wedding, who by her own admission can't stand her Mother.

It's not a very pretty sight... if your folloing me on this.

My exW on the other hand... would come...even if she was not invited, just to stir things up.

I'll probably get together with my OD, and her wedding plans, when they come up with an actual date.

How are you making out avondale?

Anything new on your family reunion?

Petvet gave you some good advice when you go... carry on like it's another day, and try not to even discuss what happened with anyone. That's easier said than done. lol

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi Everyone,

Hey, We're gaining... PETVET is back. Congratulations on all the happy news. Annulment done, tax season over and the future is looking bright! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Will there be wedding bells chiming soon? Keep us posted.

WALLACE,

I am so happy you are going to your daughters wedding. I think that is a very wise choice! It will only prove to be a positive move for you in your future. Not going would have left you open to negative speculation.

I would just determine NOT to let your ex-w spoil your daughter's big day. A lot of how you feel at that wedding will have to do with your perspective on things. You are a bigger person than your ex and all her rotton choices. Your daughter will be so glad to have you be a part of her day.

Just resolve that you will make it a good day whether or not ex-w shows up. I know that is easier said than done. But you can do it. We'll all be here to pray you through that situation. And as Avondale said, a lot can happen between now and then.

AVONDALE,

I'll be thinking of you and praying for you at this weekend's reunion. If anyone can handle the situation, you can. Again, keep the right thoughts and perspective and determine to make it a good day. (I'm continually having to give myself the same speach- so I know, easier said than done) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

ME,

Things at home have been pretty rough. Lots of tears, anger, frustration and hurt floating around. I guess that is all part of divorce. I keep working hard on letting go. I'm trying not to be influenced a lot by what H says positively or negatively. Once again, much easier said than done. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

H is still all over the place. Sometimes I feel sure he's going to leave then other times I feel the opposite. I am currently praying about whether I should be the one to take our agreement to the lawyer and have it written up.

There's a big part of me that wants it to be H that takes that step, seeings how it is his choice to end this marriage. But then, I guess that might just be a technicality. I know I don't want the misery to continue. I'm concerned that it might continue if H doesn't decide to take the papers to the lawyer.

Obviously, what I really want is a restored marriage but that doesn't look like it is going to happen. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> So, it's just a matter of time before one of us makes a move. I just don't know whether I should be the one.

Hi TRUSTING HIM and RELADY,
Miss hearing from both of you. Hope you're doing okay.

Hope all of you enjoy a wonderful weekend!

This post of your's scares me a bit

I know that from our positions we sometimes feel that we are looking at out spouses through rose colored glasses but as I read more a lot of things seemed to pop out.

I have for a few years now felt that my former was co-dependant but could never really put a solid feeling to that. How related is co-dependency and narcissism?

Things like:

• Things like them not being able to take personal responsibility for wrong doing.
• They tend to twist and turn and manipulate every situation until it becomes your problem.
• A Narcissist is not going to ever admit fault.
• The more you talk with him, he will be able to convince you that everything is really your fault.
• He is never wrong and will never admit that his actions were anywhere near as bad as yours.
• The narcissist has a seriously and permanently impaired view of self and the rest of the world.
• The narcissist is either very spoiled or very abused as a child.
• The narcissist has no feelings of his/her own and no empathy for the feelings of others.
• The narcissist cannot get enough positive attention for without it they cease to exist.

I may have mentioned it before but I remember once when I dropped off a huge load of clothes to a local shelter. On the form you had to fill out there was a place to check if you wanted a Thank You letter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I remember asking myself "Why would I want/need a Thank You letter for giving away stuff that I no longer needed or used."

It was then I remembered all the letters my former had gotten from the same shelter. Just a short form letter that said "Thank You" for your contribution.

Just rambling thoughts........

Hi Trusting Him,

I am not surprised to find you seeing narcissitic tendencise in your former. Many of the things you have mentioned about her sound way too familiar.

You ask about co-dependency and narcisisim. I'm not so sure you would typically find these two tendencies going together. In fact these traits tend to be quite different from each other. There are many people who would label me as co-dependent and my H as narcicisstic.

I think co-dependent individuals often can find themselves with narcicisstic people. The former tends to want to accomodate and please while the later tends to be very self-centered. The combination can be very unhealthy,as it has been in our marriage.

I have read much about my areas of weakness. In fact, I've been re-reading a book about boundaries in marriage. I've also read books on co-dependency and other such materials. I'm trying not to go on too great a guilt trip. I guess I tend to still wish I could have found some magical key to turn things around.

I need to just accept what has happened and look for ways to learn and grow through the process of this difficult time. It's very stretching.

I hope you are doing well Trusting Him. How are things at home? Is your son doing okay? How is your daughter with the whole custody issue? Have you made any decisions in regard to that? Hope you have a good weekend!

Hi y'all,
I survived the family reunion fine. It helped that daughter went so I didn't feel like I had a big "L" on my forehead (for loser!). I'm glad I went and it wasn't awkward (I think they already knew about our D since no one asked, thanks to my aunt.) So it was a good, but busy, weekend.

[color:"red"] Trusting [/color] - I get those notes from clothes donations simply for tax donation purposes. Perhaps that's why your former collected them?

[color:"red"] Leah [/color] - You have done a lot of research, I can tell. What's going on at your house now? Are you playing the waiting game? Have you ever considered making your H's life so miserable he'd go ahead and leave?

[color:"red"] Wallace [/color] - Anything more new with the OD wedding plans? Are you still with your GF?

[color:"red"] Petvet [/color] - You didn't answer the question about your plans - is there anything like a wedding in YOUR future? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] Relady [/color] - How's the online store going? We miss your posts!

[color:"red"] Everyone else [/color] - Hope you have a great week.

Hi Avondale,

I'm so glad you enjoyed your weekend! I thought of you several times and prayed for you. It's nice to know there are happy family times even after divorce.

You ask how things are at home.... ever changing. Sometimes things are very good. If someone would ever drop in they'd think we're a perfectly happy family, sitting around having dinner together and playing games. But then things can dramatically change the next day. Things become very tense and sad for everyone.

Thursday, I ended up speaking to H and his assistant together. I went to the office after hours not knowing who I'd find. Well, they were sitting in his truck together talking. Apparently they just returned from another day trip. Long story short, lets just say it did not go well. It was a hurtful yet clarifying moment.

They were both highly defensive and cold regarding my feelings about their relationship. The last thing H said was, "This is no concern of yours anymore as I'm divorcing you."

Since then, he went to see a lawyer and we have once again been working on detailing our agreeement. I have an apointment to see my lawyer with our written agreement. H will be moving out in the beginning of June.

Wow, talk about a range of emotion. Such sadness and regret that it has come to this. Yet, I prayed for resolution this year. God has answered my prayers, just not in the way I had hoped. I need to let go and give it all to God.

I'm still struggling with acceptance of this. I'm so sad to think I'll only see my girls half the time. It's so difficult to accept our marriage is over. Yet, I must. Please keep praying for me to be able to do this. Thanks again for your friendship!


HI AND THANK YOU TO ALL MY OTHER FRIENDS ON THE TOUGH LOVE THREAD. Its encouraging to see you all surviving divorce and going on to find happiness. God bless you all with a good week!

Leah,

I'm sad to hear this sad turn of events. I'd like to reiterate to you that you need a forensic accountant to go through the finances.....your husband has kept your finances from you for so long that you'll have no way of knowing what is fair or is not. Please do not sell yourself short. Make sure that money for training/education is part of the spousal support so that you can get back into the work force by the time you need to support yourself.

hugs!!!

[color:"red"] Leah [/color] ,
It will take a while to accept this, and knowing you and your background, you may have that "Divine commitment" feeling for a very long time (as I still do). Star*fish made an excellent point. If your H has a problem with a forensic accountant going through his books, make sure he knows it's something your lawyer mandated and not you. What is your current understanding of your possible custody arrangements?

Hi All,

Sorry I haven't posted in awhile... I got a lot going on at least for the next two weeks.

[color:"red"]avondale... [/color]

Glad to hear that your family reunion went well.

I had to chuckle about you having a Big L stamped on your forehead... that was a good one. I can relate to that feeling... even though we in fact came out just fine. Well, I might be exaggerating that a t bit... we are doing O.K..

[color:"red"]Leah... [/color]

After what you just posted... I would have my lawyers drawing up papers so fast... and considering all that he has put you through.

I've become very hardcore since going through my "D". I promised myself that I would never put up with what I put up with my exW, or with anyone else for that matter ever again.

Don't get me wrong... I'm very much Pro-Marriage, but I'm not for a one sided marriage where one person is living married, and the other is living single.

As sorry as I am to say this... you need to call it a day with your "H".

As [color:"red"]Star*fish and avondale [/color] stated...
get a forensic accountant, and have both he and your lawyer go through everything.

it's rough going through what you have been going through... and it's probably going to get somewhat worse for awhile while your going through all of this... but as many have stated... including myself... it does get better in time.

It will never be the same though... and yes... there is a huge adjustment to make. After awhile... the dust does settle... and you pick the pieces up of what use to be... and you carry on with your life from there.

It was the toughest thing I ever had to do in my life time... nothing will probably come close except something happening to my kids... but I don't want to even go there.

IMHO, I think it would be best for you and the rest of the family... to call it a day.

My prayers are with you Leah, and we will stand behind you no matter what you decide.

[color:"red"]Petvet,Trusting Him, relady, and all that I have missed... [/color]

Hope your all doing well... and relady... let us know how your making out when you get time.

[color:"blue"]Me... [/color]

My G/F and I are doing well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I know... I'm finding it hard to believe as well... but we are doing just fine for the time being.

OD went to Cancun for a week with her B/F, and my YD got a B-day card from her Mother after 3 years of no contact whatsoever a few day ago... that was a surprise.

Well I hope everyone has agreat day and a good week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all! I was able to make it again.

Avondale: I'm glad the family reunion went well. As you adjust to your new life; you will not be so embarrass to admit that you are single again. Normally that happens after you have a new beau which will not be too far in the distant future.

Leah: Forensic Accountant? Is someone hiding dough? Did you and you H file joint tax returns? Do you have his W2s or 1099s? I hate to say this, but if he is able to hide dough from you, you guys have been really living separate lives lately. If he is thinking mine and yours already, you guys' marriage is in deep trouble.

Wallace: Why is your OD scheduling a wedding so far ahead? Does she have a ring? One year ahead is kinda suspect. It sounds like someone was pressured. What do you think?

Trusting: I gladly take those thank you forms with the amount of donations. Tax deductions!!!!! I'm amaze how many people donate things and don't keep record of it. It's all about the paperwork.

Me: Just a cruising. Date? Like in wedding date? Possible. Someone recently told me that the ball is in my court. Hmmmmmm. I tried to hit the ball back, but the ball hit a wall and came back. Time will tell. Question? Why do we have to go on a link to get to this thread? I'm a little baffle.

Later.

HI EVERYONE,

Hope you all had a good week and are looking forward to a nice weekend. I'm happy its Friday. My oldest daughter and I are going to go out for dinner and a movie tonite. I'm treasuring each moment with them as I know things are soon to change. I can already see where having them so much less will make the time with them so much more precious.

My appointment with the lawyer is in a couple of weeks. He's a busy man, so appointments with him don't come easy. I guess that's a good sign. We will review the agreement that H and I have come up with. If there are no major discrepancies then, we'll sign it and H will move out.

It still doesn't seem quite possible that it has come to this. I asked my H if he could believe that we were getting a divorce. He jokingly said, "If you could keep being nice there wouldn't be a need for divorce" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

The problem is that it's only half a joke in his mind. Unfortunately, his definition of "nice" is to accept whatever he does without question, basically to live with zero expectations and if I have any I should be able to live without expressing them. This is obviously something I havent had much success doing. Oh well.... life goes on.

In the words of PETVET's priest, "It is what it is" I'm doing better about accepting what is. I'm trying to look on the positive side of everything around me. That makes a huge difference.

About the finances, I am content with what we have come up with, even if it's not the maximum amount I could get if we were to go to court. The girls will be well taken care of and my needs will be met. I am not interested in a big battle with foresic accountants, lawyers, court and all. The peace factor is too valuable to me. I much rather have less monetarily and have more peace in my life and heart.

Hope you all enjoy a great weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Can anyone join this thread? Or just for insiders?

My "credentials" are I am transitioning from married to divorced AND more importantly (since there are so many dog people here) I'm a dog owner/trainer/exhibitor/agility judge.

I have been reading this thread, and can't say I know what it's about. But, that's what makes it appealing! Sometimes it's fun to just kick back and not take things so seriously.

Anyone can join and sorry to hear about the transition from married to divorce. It's a trip I wish no one had to take.

There is a read only version of "Tough Love" that somehow got corrupted so the true meaning of it is probably lost in there somewhere. The original concept or thread was based on James Dobson's book "Love Must Be Tough" and it's principals. To a degree it still attempts to follow those principals, we just tend to get side-tracked at times. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So.....Welcome to "Tough Love 2" the reincarnation of Tough Love.

And you answered it yourself, talk about self-awareness! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



That my dear is NOT a marraige. It sure sounds as if we married the same type people.

Thanks - sounds like I have some reading to do!