Hey All,

Well I have been out of commision for a while.

Gotta broken ankle, and a broken index finger... so it's a little awkward to type for the time being. I had a freak accident with my lawn mower of all things. I never realized the amount of damage they can inflict... and I didn't have my hand under the lawn mower... it wasn't even running at the time.

So this is going to be a short post.

Leah...

Has your husband seen a Doctor, because he sure sounds like he's Bi-Polar based on your last post.

Deja Vue...

This thread is open to anyone who wants to participate in it.

We like to stick with MBer's type topics, and/or "Tough Love" situations where they pertain.

Petvet...

In regards to my OD and why they are waiting until next year? I can't answer that one.

I saw a wedding ring on her finger when she was over here last. She said he paid $5,000.00 plus for it, but that's about all I can tell you.

They went to Cancun during this past week, and are still there until Monday... aside from that... I really don't pay much attention... I try to ignore it, because I don't approve of the way they have gone about this whole deal.

In regards to you however... it sounds like you might be going down the aisle yourself... correct me if I'm wrong.

Trusting Him...

I have to say... that after awhile... all WS's start sounding and acting alike.

That's scary when you think about it.

I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - Welcome <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The original thread is here: Tough Love . Petvet started it 3 1/2 years ago. If you want to read, start there with the first few days' worth of posts, and then read the last month or so (to get caught up with who is currently still posting here). The Tough Love philosophy is similar to Dr. Harley's "Plan A & B" here. What is your history/background? I've seen some of your posts but can't recall your specific story.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - I am so sorry! This must lawn mower accident have been a freak thing! I'm glad the lawnmower wasn't running, it could have been much worse with long-lasting injuries.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - Thanks for the update. You are right; only do what you can handle emotionally. It sounds like your H still wants some type of joint custody situation. Is that right?

[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - How are you doing? Anything new with your custody situation? What happens in the summer with your kids?

[color:"blue"] Me [/color] - We have great weather forecasted and I'm out the door to begin some serious yardwork. Have a great weekend.

hi [color:"blue"] Petvet, Relady, and anyone else. [/color]

Here's my story:

Married almost 20 years. No kids. Several dogs and shared hobby/business in training and showing dogs. Both of us went back to school and finished degrees; both of us have had ups and downs with careers, but are basically in the same profession and both work in the public sector.

Last fall my H decided he didn't want a future with me, that I wasn't meeting his needs, and it was not open to discussion. Needs he could not really articulate to either me or any of our close friends. His life was not turning out the way he wanted it to, and our relationship was not turning out to be the one he wanted. He wanted to start over and didn't want me to be part of that.

This was the second D-Day - the first one I thought we had weathered and were working things out. I was wrong. Our MC and my IC both saw that he was not participating in working things out, but that he had decided it was all my fault and the effort had to be all mine. I had to prove something to him before he would engage. I thought they were wrong, and just didn't see it at the time.

H later informed me I had duped him during the supposed working things out period, and he should have left me the first time. And that he wouldn't fall for it again. I could see the setup coming - that even if he changed his mind and agreed to work on it again, I would be blamed for anything that went wrong (in his mind). So I decided not to fight it. I realized I could not afford or maintain the house we were living in, plus it was a long way from where I work, so I bought myself a house and moved out. We have since divided up everything - $$, property, etc. Not filed the D yet, but he is pushing me now to get that paperwork done.

Quite frankly I was totally worn out from almost 20 years of feeling like everything was about him. Early in the M, we spent most weekends in incredibly stressful situations dealing with his dysfunctional family. Also his drugs and alcohol use, his unemployment, his (unending) needs, and me paying all the bills for the first few years, yada yada yada. I simply had/have no will or means to continue and want nothing now but peace. He was truly a high maintenance spouse. He also took no responsibilitiy for anything for quite some time, not financially, not fixing things in the home and certainly not paying for any repairs. He would break down in tears when he messed up his finances and I had to bail him out. (This was in the first year of our M.) He was very angry anytime I would bring up this stressful subject and made my life miserable when I did. I was supposed to bail him out and cover for him, but not ever confront him because it hurt his feelings. His family had always told him he was irresponsible, and I was supposed to understand that he was sensitive to this and not pour salt into those old wounds. So instead I was supposed to let him be irresponsible at my expense so he wouldn't have to face it. What a mistake I made in buying into that.

For many years I felt like I had an adult child instead of a husband - but I couldn't bring this up either because anything that sounded like I was calling him irresponsible was NOT OK. Even now, he still assumes everything I say is about him, or is an attack on him. He takes things personally that have nothing to do with him - I don't even LIVE with him or interact with him except to deal with legal or financial details.

Even this fall - as we were trying to split up our assets, he tried to dump HIS refinancing paperwork on me - saying how he couldn't find this info or that info, to which I said, "gee that's too bad. Call the accountant and get copies."

Another example - though he promised to do it, he couldn't get the taxes together back in Jan when I started begging him to do so (all the paperwork had been mailed to his house and I had no paperwork). Irresponsible again - never doing what he said he'd do, getting mad at me when he felt overcommitted, and even madder if I went ahead and did things myself that he failed to follow up on. When he finally got the tax stuff to me - on April 11 - it was far from complete, full of gaps, and I had to spend an entire day trying to complete what was supposed to have been done. Then when he ended up owing several thousand $$ he was mad at me for not sharing that cost with him. Duh! Maybe if he'd gotten it done sooner we could have had the accountant try some different ways of calculating the returns, but NOT with only 4 days to go for filing.

Back when he finally decided he wanted to be a participant in the financial end of our M, he was mad that I didn't pick up on this and accept that he had changed. He wanted me to combine my assets with his - but there was no way I trusted him to make good financial decisions or even keep track of what he owed, what he was spending, etc. For my comfort levels, he had not changed. I didn't trust him then and still wouldn't now based on anything I've seen about his ability to plan or manage $$. It was always my job to take care of finances, mortgage applications, taxes, you name it. Just because he wanted to be responsible didn't make it realistic.

He also thought all my assets should become marital property and resented anything I spent on myself over the years. However, we had a prenup, as I had $$ from a personal injury settlement that was supposed to pay for future surgery and living expenses (well, guess what happened to most of that $$?) He now says I got more out of the house than he ever will - well DUH! As I should - the downpayment was MY money, all the household furnishings bought during the first 5+ years of our M were totally from my savings and insurance money. I left the M with my original downpayment, my bills paid, and $15K to buy furniture and set up a new household from scratch. And a house worth less than half what his is worth, with less possibility of appreciation. Before I met him, I had $$ and was a homeowner - and he had nothing, and I mean NOTHING. Now, almost all of my $$ is gone - spent on our relationship and/or home, but he still thinks all the "joint" property should belong half to him. In his mind, he contributed 50% or more to the M, and in my opinion that was only true for the last 2-3 years of our almost 20 year marriage.

All this sounds like I'm without fault, and I'm sure that's not the case. However, from what close mutual friends have told me - he had expectations that I was going to save him from the life he had. Initially that worked - his life improved. He got away from his familiy, and married into $$ to some extent. He finished his college degree, and moved up the corporate ladder (from being a bus driver when I met him). Then, from what his friends have said, when things were still not right in his life, he began to blame me because I was supposed to have fixed his life. He grew to resent me for what I still had that he had not been able to achieve. He wanted me to think of him as a husband when in fact he was still treating me like I was his mother.

This feedback comes from the assessment of close mutual friends (who talked to both of us, with both of our knowledge that these discussions were happening). The feedback was without me saying a SINGLE word about what happened between us. And it actually makes more sense than anything else I could come up with. It explains why he said I wasn't the kind of person who could meet his needs, but he couldn't explain what they were or why I couldn't meet them. I now think he's right - I can't, and won't, try any longer to meet his needs as I understand them.

I'm now working on fixing me - figuring out where his boundaries crossed mine and muddied the waters for me. Why I couldn't see clearly, and therefore couldn't make good decisions. How I could have (or could I have?) done anything to deal with the imbalance in responsibility in our M. My feeling now is that I probably should have left the M in the first couple of years. I no longer think that, with his insecurities and emotional needs, he is mature or emotionally strong enough for what I need in a spouse. My mistakes may have been sticking my head in the sand, avoiding conflicts and avoiding the truth, and redoubling my efforts when all hope was lost. (e.g., the definition of a fanatic!). During the last 2+ years, he frequently talked about not wanting to live, and being severely depressed. He was also angry and had a violent temper (since before we were married) - yet though I was afraid of his temper and so were our dogs, he never hit or hurt any of us. He did, however, smash holes in walls and break things. I think I was once again afraid to confront his demons - afraid they were about me or directed at me (probably my intuition told me this). So I conflict avoided.

On the plus side, H has a good side. There is a person inside trying to get out - the person he thinks he is and wants to be. And deep down admitted not being sure if that person is real, or if he made him up. I saw him today at the show and we talked briefly. He said some nice things to me, and showed some warmth towards me that I haven't felt in a while. I could easily cry over this again - I can't totally stop loving him, even though I don't WANT to love him anymore. So, I know I have to detach and move on, I know he's really bad for me - and I'm probably bad for him too. Still it's hard!

Sorry this is so long!

Hey All,

[color:"red"]avondale... [/color]

Where did you find the original "Tough Love" thread?

Glad to hear that your able to do yard work.

I wish I was able to at least mow my lawn... I have the worse looking yard in the neigborhood, because my mower is still down, and so am I. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I'm going to have to hire a lawn service to come in I think.

[color:"red"]Deja Vue... [/color]

Thanks for getting us up to speed on your sitch... and Welcome to the "Tough Love" thread.




By reading your post... it sounds to me like you were doing quite well in meeting his needs.

I have found in the past, and based on my last "M". When a "M" has gone south for whatever reason... you can never do enough to meet their needs, no matter how hard you try.

Well I hope everyone is doing well today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wallace -- thanks for the uplift!
Avondale -- thanks for the link to the old stuff, which I read parts of.

I also read some reviews of Love Must be Tough. Sounds like it is about how to be strong and maintain dignity in the face of relationship difficulties. It actually sounds similar to the Plan B approach. But that's just from reading a few reviews, and not the whole book.

Wallace -- I am in the same boat re: lawn mowing. We have a local "company" called Amazing Husband Handyman. I hired them before to just come out and fix a bunch of things while I was moving in and totally overwhelmed. I'm now trying to get them out to set up my lawnmower, show me how it works, and do the first mowing of the season for me. Now, if it would just stop raining long enough to actually mow the lawn!

Hi Everyone,

DEJA VU,

Hi and welcome to the Tough Love thread. Sorry about the difficulties in your marriage. It sounds as if you are working at the same thing I am... trying to let go and detach. Right now it is especially challenging because my H is still living with me.

I hope it soon stops raining and you can get outside and enjoy the sunshine and get your lawn mowed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

WALLACE,

So sorry about your accident. How long will your recovery time be? Lawn mowers can be a dangerous piece of machinery. I hope you are healing well.

You ask about H being bi-polar. He hasn't been officially diagnosed but he certainly exhibits tendencies in that direction. His counselor told me he felt that was certainly a possibility. After I shared this info with H, he stopped going to see him. He absolutely refuses to be "labeled" and is very resistent to the idea of any meds.

I'm glad to hear you and GF are doing well. Hope the good times continue. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

AVONDALE,

Hope you are doing well. It sounds like you've been busy working outside. I have done some of the same. I still have a long way to go. Keep looking up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You ask about custody... We will have joint custody. H will have them nearly half the time. But everything will be dependent on his work schedule. If he's gone, I'll be able to have them. So that is good.

TRUSTING HIM,

Yes, I think we did marry very similar people. How are things with you? Have you been seeing your children a lot? Are things with your former on a pretty even keel? Hope you are doing well. God bless!

HI PETVET and RELADY,

Hope things are going well for both of you. We'd love an update RELADY.


ME,

I'm hanging in there. Things are faily peaceful right now. Just waiting to get things all official with the lawyer. It still doesn't seem possible that it's really over. I don't think it will truly hit until H is gone.

Overall, I feel I have a peace about my life and what is happening. I'm trusting God with all of it. He will see me through.

Leah2B - it is really tough to be in the same house when you know it is over. My H and I did that from late Sept until mid Dec. I couldn't get out of there quick enough!

Hang in there - I'll be rooting for you!

Hi all!

Wallace: Ouch! Be careful with those lawnmowers. You may have to hire a lawn company in the interim to perform your yard duties until you get better physically.

Avondale: How are things with you? Give me an update?

Relady: Where are youuuuu?

Leah: Excuse the expression, but your H sounds like a smart -----. What kind of comment was he making with the "you are not nice"? His attitude sounds sounds like someone I use to be married to; my way or no way! Please make sure you get what you are due for you and the kids. The reason why I say this is later is too late. Make sure things are right now on the front end. Why are you concern about peace at this point? Why does it matter? If he is going to be out of your life except for the kids, why do you care whether if you guys are lovby dubby? Think are it!

Trusting: You are correct. Tough Love comes from the Dobson book.

Deja Vu: Yes, you have to work on yourself now after years of spouse tearing you down mentally and physically.

Me: I intend to get back into the groove of posting regularly. I have been busy with things. Life is going smooth.

Later.

Petvet - Good to hear from you - I thought you were a groovy guy already <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Wallace - Don't think of yourself as being broken down! Don't you have a son who can mow the grass?

Deja Vu - Thanks for the history. Where are you (and your H) about filing for D? Will you wait for him to? It sounds like you have begun getting your act together as far as your living situation, etc. Not everyone is fortunate to be able to move out that easily. I know it's hard when you see your spouse in a public place, but fortunately I haven't had to deal with it yet. It's just a matter of time for me, I'm sure, since we live near each other.

Leah - I know you feel like a weight is hanging over you. It is so difficult living there with H knowing that he's going to leave. I had to do that for 3 months too. Have you said anything to the kids or are you waiting for school to end? How are they taking things?

Trusting - Haven't heard much from you. What's new? Any change in the custody situation?

Me - Nothing new, except I have mice in my linen closet. They kept me awake all night!

Avondale - here in MN you can fill out some forms and file them yourself. Apparently you don't even have to go to court. That's the route we're taking. H wanted me to drop everything and fill out my part, but I have other priorities that come first. Anyway, I'll get to it soon (it's really stressful, you know?) - we'll file the papers, and then some day it will be all over. As over as it can be.

Hi all!

Deja Vu: It is very stressful living with a spouse who you know does not want to be married to you anymore. The worst thing about a marriage that failing is the stress and disappointment.

Avondale: Mice? Even though I love animals, the little critters have to go. It's exterminator time.

Me: I am doing fine. I love the spring and summer.

Later.

Hey All!

I tried posting the other night, but for some reason it would just clear itself out, when I hit the back button.

Well I'm rolling again... in fact I got my lawn mowed (did it myself), and I have been working a good size side job (Plumbing) putting in an $80,000.00 plus bathroom for a friend of mine... you should see this bathroom. Not to shabby for a side job, if I must say so myself. I'll be done with it this weekened.

Update on my end:

G/F is back full tilt on the marriage thing again... she is looking at homes again. In fact she made an offer on one... but someone beat her to the punch and it already was under contract <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I thought that might slower her down a little... but it didn't, she's back at it again (looking for homes).

You know... it kinda turns me off when they are in such a hurry to get married. The more she pushes this whole thing... the more I pull away.

I think, I'm happy right where I am... and I need time, more time to get over all the wonderfulness I went through in my first marriage. I still haven't recovered from all that as of yet.

Well anyway... it's been pretty hectic for me these last several weeks.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Wallace: I'm glad you are back in the fix again. I did not know you were a plumber. You should ask your GF why is she looking for a house after there was an agreement to get married at a future date. You should tell her this turns you off.

Later.

Everyone is so quiet lately. I'm not sure if it's because the weather has gotten us out of our houses or what.

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] , I agree with [color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] . Surely by now you've asked her point-blank why she's looking for a house after you both agreed to not do that. What is her response to that?
I knew you were a plumber, but an $80k (side cost) bathroom? Geez, what do they have that I don't have? Sauna? I cannot imagine that!

[color:"blue"]Leah [/color] - How are you doing? Call me this weekend if you want/need to <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
[color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] - How are you doing?
[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - How are you doing?
[color:"blue"]Relady [/color] - How are you doing?

Hi All,

Petvet...

I have asked my G/F countless times, "Why are you looking for a house?" She states, because her house is to small, and she wants to get a bigger home. I asked her why? If her kids according to her are all going to be gone from the house within 2 years, what would be the logic behind buying a bigger home?

Personally I think she thinks that if she buys a big home, that I will want to get "M" and move in. I have already told her that it's not happening, I already have a decent size house.

We both agreed, that nothing is going to happen until all the kids are out on their own. She agrees with it, and then flips to the other direction after about 2 weeks, and wants to change everything back up again, and proceed to get "M".

I've told her, it's not happening from my end... which makes her very frustrated.

She say's " I don't think you ever want to get married again... and you know? She just might be right.

avondale...

This bathroom has everything you could possibly imagine in it. About the only thing that's not in it is a swimming pool, and it's almost big enough to put one of those into it as well.

The big cost of this whole thing (aside from what I'm charging for my time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) is the fixtures and the vanities and the sinks, tubs, whirlpools and how many they have and the quality of all of it. It is definitely high end goods. Just to give you an idea... one faucet cost a little over $3,000.00, that's just for one. They have four faucets for two double sink vanities.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Let us know how you are all making out when you get time.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hey Avondale, thanks for asking. Not the best week for me - lots of things going wrong that I can easily blame my X for. That's probably why I'm experiencing so much anger right now. Though I do not really blame him for the two weeks of solid rain!

On the upside, I hired someone to set up my new lawnmower and mow the lawn. While I was gritting my teeth about the cost, he came back to the house and said he'd broken my lawnmower and would have to get it fixed for me. All I can think now is what would I have done if it had broken when I was using it?

I know the answer! MELT DOWN....

Wallace - maybe your G/F would like to mow your lawn??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Deja said:
[color:"blue"] Another scenario: It's quite possible that if YOU were mowing the grass, it wouldn't have broken!
But I'm enjoying having someone do all my lawn mowing too, with their mower so I don't have any headaches! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope everyone has a great weekend![/color]

Hi Everyone,

AVONDALE,

I've thought about you a lot this week and wanted to give you a call. So, I might just do that if I can connect with you when my girls and H aren't here.

It's been really difficult lately. I keep praying for brighter days ahead. You ask about the girls. They know what is happening, at least the older two do. I mentioned it to all three girls back quite awhile ago. YD was so upset that I haven't brought it up again. The older two seemed to understand and have asked questions and have talked about it some.

I'll be helping YD get through this later when H actually starts moving out. I thought I should let her finish school as peaceably as possible. She's been taking SOL tests all week- I don't want to rock her world till I have too. It makes me incredibly sad that she and the other girls will have to suffer through this mess too.

I hope you are doing well. I'll try to give you a buzz later. Hope you have a great weekend!

WALLACE,

Glad to hear you're up and about again. That's interesting to learn you're a plummer. I need one in two of my bathrooms, one leaky faucet and broken jets in the jacuzzi. But that all seems way down there on the priority list right now... Such tough times this divorcing stuff produces.

I don't blame you for being hesitant to get married again. I can see where one could use time to just heal and be free after going through the pain and heartache of divorce. I hope your g/f can let go of the push of marriage. She would probably have the opportunity of M much quicker if she didn't push it. Oh well, sometimes letting go can be a tough challenge- How well I can relate to that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

PETVET,

Thanks for the concern about getting what I need for the girls and I. I am still working to do that. I meet with the lawyer Tuesday. I am trying to find the balance of being wise yet not greedy. I feel I have a pretty workable plan at this point. We'll see if the lawyer agrees. It would be great to not go to court with this.

TRUSTING HIM, RELADY, AND DEJAVUE,

Hope all of you are doing well. Hope you have a great weekend! Please write when you can. God bless!

Leah

Each child will react differently and also learn to handle or adapt in their own manner. Our youngest was 7 when we moved out. She was a huge asset to me as she acutally helped me move and unpack and arrange everything in my new place.

But she is more of a reader/writer than a talkative person. Her and I actually communicate better through letters and notes to each other. It seems that a letter from Daddy or a letter from her telling me about what hurts and makes her sad is much easier for her than trying to express it in actual words.

Our son? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> We are (at least I am) still trying to figure him out. He is very quite and reserved when it comes to anything that apppears to be confrontational. He clams up and crawls into his shell. It is only after I spend several (4 to 5) hours with him alone that he begins to open up and talk about little things. When you have three it is sometimes hard to give that one child that amount of time alone. Although I do try as often as possible. (Tomorrow I'm taking him fishing and we will be out ALL day).

The oldest daughter. For whatever reason she seems to have adapted quite well.

Just wanted to encourage and share what had worked with us/me. Please let them talk and express themselves as often as possible. It's a lot better than having then internalize it all and suffer later.

God Bless and still praying or those brighter days!

Hello All............

Just passing through and wanted to drop a line hello. Looks like everyone is doing well..I'll post a little later on how things been going...