I'm about to head off for the weekend and won't be back until next Tuesday. Hope you all have a great 4th weekend!

Petvet - I'm having a hard time dealing with his demands and control efforts. I am also about to get a restraining order against the phone calls and E-Mails. He continues to bombard me - now, after asking what I wanted so he could figure out how to get it, he's making me his "final offer" which is nowhere even close to ANY calculations for half the equity. I have no idea where he's getting the number, but he seems confident he can get it. My attorney is going to cost me a fortune now - and says I won't even be able to make H pay the fees.

I am steaming mad. I can't tell you how mad I am.

For someone as broke as he is, I'm wondering how HE is affording the attorney fees.

[color:"red"] Guess I'd better say "Happy 4th" too. I've got a few social things cooking (literally and figuratively) and don't want to miss anyone else who might be going out of town. [/color]

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I sympathize with your situation! Have you considered asking your H where he DID get those numbers? If they're so far off, can you account for the differences and it's due to your difference of opinions, or is it possible you've overlooked something? (you don't seem like the type to overlook, but just a thought) I guess your H is just carrying his "fogspeak" into his paperwork. Sorry. You were going to write about "meeting someone" too...don't forget!

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] - Yes, I have an 25 yr old son who is a long-distance truck driver. He is home every 5-6 weeks or so for about a week of R&R. Ironically, H and I had to "tough love" him together while I was doing "tough love" towards my H. Talk about stress, LOL

More on Prenups - I am a Bible-believing, God-fearing Christian. I would definitely have a prenup if I were to get married. It just makes sense, and protects my assets (meager as they are) for my kids. I think one can be wise (with prenups) and in love at the same time. In fact, you could say it's a loving thing to be wise with a prenup!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - Did we lose you with the color posting?

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] - I had to laugh at your dislike of HGTV. I bet lots of guys would agree!

[color:"blue"] EC, Relady [/color] , anyone else I missed - Happy Independence Day

[color:"blue"] [/color] Avondale, [color:"blue"] [/color]

Thank you so much for educating your little friend. I thought that was what I was doing. I'm so curious to see if this works. You are always so helpful in everything from computer help to wisdom in dealing with heartache. Thanks for being a good friend.

[color:"purple"] [/color] Deja Vu [color:"purple"] [/color]

I'm not sure if you saw my last post to you in regard to our husbands using the same tactics. I can't tell you how many times my H has made me feel like I'm being unreasonable and greedy. All this while I'm being told by lawyer that I'm entitled to so much more than what he's offering.

If you're H is like mine, he is so very convincing. The resullt of such conversations leave you feeling confused and undeserving of anything you think is reasonable. I have to be so careful what I take in when it comes to such conversations Stay strong to all the verbage.

You're in a situation where you can more easily cut yourself off from such communication. With sharing our three girls and constant back and forth, it necessitates a certain amount of communication. Please be careful and hold on to truth. You're going to get through this and we're here to help! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


[color:"red"] [/color] Wallace [color:"red"] [/color]

Thanks for all your input with your special spy language. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That's nice of you to help g/f with furniture moving. I'm sure you are a big support to her in so many ways. No wonder she keeps wanting you to get married soon. She knows a good thing when she sees it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />




PETVET,

Hope you and Buddy enjoy a happy weekend! Have you ever mentioned a prenup to her? Do you think she would be accepting of it?
As I wrote before, having been here, I could certainly appreciate the wisdom of having one. Has Buddy been through a divorce? If so she most likely would be understanding of having one.

[color:"red"] [/color] Happy Fourth of July to all my Tough Love Friends!! Hope you have a great weekend! [color:red [color:"red"]

Petvet , I keep trying to make your name bold back where my message is to you but it keeps putting me back at the bottom <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I'm so not a computer person....

Avondale,

It didn't work- so sad... I guess it's not meant for me to write in color <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for the lesson. I'll try option 2 next time. Maybe that will work better. I followed option 1 as I have in the past, but alas, it didn't take. I guess I shall remain a black and white person. Hope you're having a nice weekend with your son. I'll try to give you a buzz before too long.

That is so funny.... How did that happen? I got color this time when I wasn't trying. I had formerly tried to put names in color and wish everyone a Happy Fourth in red. When I first posted there was no color. When I edited it to give AVONDALE and PETVET a message, it turned red. One never knows what might happen on this happy forum. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Avondale [/color]


I know where he's getting his numbers - he's using creative accounting. He took $$ from his IRA to pay me part of what I had coming - and then wanted me to share his IRS penalties, which effectively reduced the amount I got. Since he wouldn't listen when I suggested he call the accountant first, he failed to learn how to prevent the penalties, and then wanted me to share in the results of his incompetence. He also forgets that he's in financial trouble now because of his choices, and there is still equity in the house even though he doesn't have access to it. So, he's not even counting that equity - just looking at his sitch and complaining about being broke. He thought he could end his M, move on to a happy single life, and keep his standard of living as it was. Hah! And since everything is about him, he only sees the disappointment HE is experiencing in the loss of HIS standard of living. He doesn't see - or even listen when I tell him - how significantly MY standard of living has also changed.

BTW - my attorney and I have BOTH come up with different numbers from H. I did not overlook anything, but H certainly did. Like my prenup, like the idea of SHARING equity...


Yes! It was at my father's 80th BDay party. This guy is too young for me, but it was wonderful to feel attracted again, and wonderful to have someone flirting with me. It seemed genuine too. He is from the "old country" (where my dad is from, and that's how this guy knows my dad). Given that I'm a first gen American, and have traveled back a couple of times now, I know enough to know that values between his country and mine are quite different. In a good way, I think. More focused on family and values, and less on me me me and superficialities.

The disappointing part was that I realized something about myself I didn't like. Something that might be the problem with all my previous relationships though - so maybe a good thing to recognize. Part of my attraction to this guy was that he looked up to me and admired me for what I've accomplished in life. And I liked that. Maybe too much.

This could be OK if done in a healthy way - BUT my first 2 H's I believe used me as a stepping stone to what I had that they wanted. I think I was drawn to them because they would not challenge me, and I didn't want a man who would expect me to be second fiddle to his life. I think I subconsciously picked men who would be second fiddle to me. Instead of being an equal. Well, I got that - even though I would not have said I wanted that and did not recognize I was doing that. I guess all the self-scrutiny I've been doing lately is showing me a side of myself I don't like, but need to face.

I saw myself falling into that same pattern with this guy I met. Part of my attraction to him was his looking up to me. For that reason alone, though there are many other reasons as well, I would NOT go out with him.

[color:"blue"] Leah: [/color]


I thought I'd replied to everything before I left for the weekend - so, I'm sorry if I didn't reply to yours. Yes, I did see your post about this. You have exactly described how I'm feeling. Thankfully for attorneys - if nothing else, for validating that I'm not the one who is crazy. H didn't want attorneys involved - my attorney says this is because he knew he was taking me to the cleaners. I still have trouble believing that - I don't think he's competent or knowledgeable enough - but I am trusting my attorney on this.


My attorney said he was sending H an E-Mail telling him he should get his own attorney now - and to stop trying to discuss this with me any more. I got back from out of town last night, and there were NO E-Mails or phone calls from H. So... that's good. But unfortunately I will have to see him next weekend at the trials. Because I'm the one doing the trial paperwork, I won't have the option of leaving if it gets rough - so I'm hoping I can cope with his presence.

Well, too good to be true. I should have known. I have gotten 2 calls from H - last night and tonight. Didn't answer either one. The first one was in a snotty tone of voice and tried to prey on my wishes to not have conflict by telling me he really didn't want to "have to" discuss this over the weekend (where we will run into each other, and where I'm working all weekend - captive audience and lots of people around).

Meanwhile he got my attorney's E-Mail. So tonight's phone call reminded me that he really doesn't want to go this route, and he is giving me another chance to talk. As if my chances are his to give. And this is the last time he will call me about this. Good! My attorney says of course he doesn't want to go this route because then he can't screw me out of my share.

When I've fallen for this line and responded (by E-Mail) and told him what I want, he responded by manipulative tactics, making HIS offers to me (as if it was up to him to "give" me my share of the house) - and finally trying to guilt me into what he wants ("this is so sad..."). My attorney has read the correspondence and is disgusted. H keeps insisting "we" need to talk, which I believe means "you haven't given in to my demands yet..."

Nevertheless, I DO feel bad. Why? Why? My attorney believes he's been manipulating me forever and I've been trying to avoid his anger and letting him get his way all this time. Funny, I never thought this was the case... but now, I'm not so sure. Still, is this 20 years of habits or what? I am really questioning the whole thing, feeling like this man whom I loved and considered my friend ought to be someone I can talk to reasonably. I somehow am having thoughts that if I talk to him, the result will be different next time. (I know, I know - the definition of insanity - do the same thing and expect a different result.)

Just had to share this - get it off my chest - because I am NOT going to give in to this erroneous line of thinking. I know in my mind that H is trying to get me to think this way so I'll talk to him. I'm sure he thinks if we talk in person, he'll be able to convince me. He has consistently insisted we talk instead of E-Mail.

I am, however, tempted to write him an E-Mail letting hiim know that I see through him, and that he cannot be trusted to treat me fairly. Would there be any value in this? I don't know... make me feel better, maybe. Affirmation of my position, maybe.

I sure hope I can stay strong through the weekend. Wish I could quit thinking about this.

[color:"blue"]Deja Vu [/color]
Don't send him an email...it will only mean you are stooping to his level AND show him that he's getting to you. Ignore it, and ignore him as much as possible. I know this weekend will be tough for you but as Wallace says, "Be Strong!" Stick to email contact (if even that) only.

Is there any division of "property" involved in your weekend activities? Are the lines of what is yours/his pretty well defined?

[color:"blue"] [/color] Deja Vu [color:"blue"] [/color]

You can stay strong to him. We're all here rooting for you! It's so interesting when I read your posts, it helps me stay strong. Those two must be taking lessons from each other. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This past week my H asked me a question to which I replied, "I'd rather not share that info. with you" It was an attorney related question. He acted in shock and said, "You act as if you don't think I'm on YOUR side, as if I don't support you" I calmly replied that I didn't feel he was. He angrily said goodbye and hung up.

In the past when he acted this way, I would quickly say how I was wrong...how I misjudged him... that I'm sure he does care and so forth. I'm not letting myself go there anymore. Reality is now here. The fantasy is gone. I'm calling a spade a spade. H doesn't like it.

[color:"purple"] [/color] Hope all of the "Tough Love" gang is doing well. Enjoy your weekend and check in when you can! [color:"purple"] [/color]

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color]
Wow, I'm VERY impressed with you standing up to your H. Granted, it was on the phone but I think you could have said it in person, too. That is a big step for you to not back down. You rock! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]Leah:[/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Whoo hoo! Good for you. I know how hard it is to do what you did, and how easy to second guess and want to believe the best in someone else. Especially someone you thought you knew and loved.

[color:"red"]Avondale:[/color] I did not write or send any E-Mails. Still feeling the need to articulate and sort out the craziness from the reality; still feeling the need to cut through the BS. But, maybe I just need to do this for ME and not to send to him. I have always been able to win any battle of wits with him, and part of me wants to slap him upside the head with the harsh reality of the situation. Wanting to make him face the same reality I have had to, and stop the false pretenses he's using on me (not rational, huh?) How dare he - or Leah's H either - be able to dance their way through this as if they were planning a vacation instead of a divorce? And pretending they are kind people, so noble, considerate, and thoughtful - as if saying so makes it so. NOT!

[color:"red"]Leah:[/color] - does this resonate with you too?

[color:"red"]Wallace, Petvet, and everyone else who has been so quiet lately:[/color] - I hope you're all quiet because life is dishing out bowls full of cherries to you! Stop in and share...

Hi all! it sounds like everyone was busy over the 4th. I know I was.

Avondale: The colors thing is real cute. I think Buddy would ask me to sign a prenup. I would need to consult with an attorney to learn more about prenups. She is older than I am and has more assets. I don't want to take anything away from her child. My problem is I know my work longevity will be longer than hers; therefore, I will probably generate more assets post marriage since she will be retiring before I will. Do you understand what I am saying? I just want things to be fair and not one sided.

Dejavu: Why can't you go for attorney fees against your H? He was the one who commited adultery. I would stop communicating with H, and only go through your attorney. I would ask attorney whether you could pay her after the D settlement or rulng from your equity. You cannot do this thing on your own. You may have to get another attorney who is cheaper.

Leah: Stay strong.

Wallace: What's going on?

Me: Staying busy and getting ready to go on vacation.

Later.

Because in MN they usually rule that each spouse pays their own legal fees. Besides, I don't know that I want to fight that battle too, esp since I know there's no $$ there anyway.

BTW - there was no adultery.


Have already stopped communicating with him directly. This weekend he was at the show... I ignored him and we didn't share even a single word.

I do not want to change attorneys. Old family friend, AND someone who DOES win and my H knows this.

[color:"red"]Anyone else have anything new to report from the weekend? How is everyone? [/color]

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I'm glad there were no "incidents" from the weekend. I thought of you on Saturday and hoped you'd be OK. Was this at a show? How did your dog(s) do?

As for [color:"blue"] me [/color] , nothing new to report. But after reading (and posting a little) on the After Divorce/Dating board, I feel confirmed in my belief that I'm not interested in dating. And I am soooo at peace with that, it's not even funny! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> If I die without ever being in another relationship, that's OK.

How nice of you to think of me! Yes it was at a show. I had one dog entered, and he and I bombed all weekend. The previous weekend was 100% success; this weekend 100% failure. But, he is getting old now, so it will be this way from now on.

Hey All,

Took an impromptu vacation.

Didn't really go anywhere special... just took care of a few things, and then enjoyed my OS's B-day with all my kids for a good part of last week.

Finally got the CS issue out of the way... that one was really working me, I'm glad that's over with for now.

Spent some time with my G/F and we got a few things settled, for the moment anyway.

Glad to see everyone standing up for the right thing. It's good to hear Leah, and Deja Vu, that your both taking a stand a sticking with it. Don't let them push you around!

It's a new ball game your in, and you need to work hard in order to come out through this without any problems later on down the road. I know how draining it can be... but you both must stick with it.

[color:"blue"]Petvet... [/color]

If I didn't know better (and I do... lol), I would say that there is the sound of wedding bells coming your way.

Just think... everyone thought I was going to be the first one getting married again. If I do go through with getting married again, it will be at least one more year, but more than likely two years away.

[color:"blue"]avondale... [/color]

I know how you feel about the dating thing.

If my G/F and I don't work out... I'll probably take a very long break from dating. It's like I have always maintained... I like being single.

Well I hope everyone had a nice 4th of July... I had a great time.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Avondale: I am going to take your no dating attitude as a case of needing a break. I think your behavior will change in a couple of months.

Dejavu: Thanks for the clarification on the fee and attorney issue. You seem to be on the right track. I was thinking about your comment on winning one weekend and losing the next. That is the damnest thing about showing dogs. It's all about the judges. As you know, there are some exhibitors who chase certain judges around the country in order to get their dogs finished. Of course, you and I know about those judges who favor certain professional handlers regardless of the dogs at the end of the leash. You know something, you may want to consider having someone else show your dogs while you go through your family issues. You just put yourself through the cooker whenever you run into your h at the shows.

Wallace: Oh no, you are going to win the "first to get married" award. You have been designated the chosen one. We have to keep the spotlight on you. To be serious, I am going through indepth evaluations on many issues to make sure their are no surprises and that we know how to work through certian issues before "The Day" comes. Who knows,I may beat you!

Me: Going to Vegas tomorrow. My favorite city to visit.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color]
There's a discussion about pre-nups on the Divorced/Dating board. Here's the link: Pre-nup Thread

I'd have to agree with Avondale on the no dating thing. while there are groups of people and friends tht I go out with I have not crossed that line or reached that point in life where I feel I am ready to date. I actually enjoy being single. Granted I miss my children and some of the joys that come with a family and marriage but not enough to get into a serious dating reltionship with another person. At least not yet...

Well, I show in agility so that's not really an option. At least he's competing at a different level than I am so we're not in the ring together.

[color:"red"]Wallace, PetVet - [/color]
Even if neither of you gets married, it's encouraging to think you're able to at least consider it again. I truly wish the best for you both.

I really doubt if I will ever be willing to consider it again. Or dating either. I'm with Avondale on this one. I feel like I should want it again. Did you guys go through that too?