[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color]said:

I was reading this morning and you came to mind with this Psalm. David himself is described as having that feeling or desire to state ""Who will give me wings," I ask-- "wings like a dove?" Get me out of here on dove wings; " in the midst of his troubles.


A David psalm. Open your ears, God, to my prayer; don't pretend you don't hear me knocking. Come close and whisper your answer. I really need you. I shudder at the mean voice, quail before the evil eye, As they pile on the guilt, stockpile angry slander. My insides are turned inside out; specters of death have me down. I shake with fear, I shudder from head to foot. "Who will give me wings," I ask-- "wings like a dove?" Get me out of here on dove wings; I want some peace and quiet. I want a walk in the country, I want a cabin in the woods. I'm desperate for a change from rage and stormy weather.
(Psa 55:1-8 MSG)

And then he goes on to explain why he feels this way. He was not talking about someone at work who had offended him not the day to day confrontations we all come across with other individuals in out life.

He was talking about a friend, a companion, someone who we had shared time with, a person whom we had invested time and intimacy into developing a relationship.

This isn't the neighborhood bully mocking me--I could take that. This isn't a foreign devil spitting invective--I could tune that out. It's you! We grew up together! You! My best friend! Those long hours of leisure as we walked arm in arm, God a third party to our conversation.
(Psa 55:12-14 MSG)

So even the Big Guys struggled with the feeling or idea of running. Hang in there girl...there is a hope for a future and a plan for your life (all of ours here) and we will one day be over those urges to flee.


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I had one of those moments last night. It seems that the formers BF was at her house last night and somehow managed to accidently hit the redial on the telephone. Of course I first thought it was one of the children calling but quickly discovered otherwise.

I answered, said hello several times but apparently the phone was laying around somewhere because I could here them talking as if they had no idea they had called me.

But just the thought of this other person being at the home of my children and being intimate with the woman I was once married to brought to surface again those feelings of running.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Ever had one of those [color:"red"]LIGHT BULB [/color] moments <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Our son was with me today as he stayed home from school sick. I just dropped him off with his mother (which always causes me to reminisce)and as I was driving back home I was dwelling on the thought patterns of this woman and our children.

From the very first day that she mentioned divorce she had always said "whatever the children want" when it came to custody or living arrangments. Of course that was over 2 years ago and I felt the children were not mature enough to make that decision. Nor did I think that they should be put into the position of having to choose between Mom or Dad.

Fast forward 2 years and we have a daughter who turned 14 (legal age) who wants to live with Daddy. I think most will remember that the discussion that ensued from that was not a positive or fruitful one. That is what I was dwelling on as I drove home whem I remembered their Mom's greatest fear.

Losing her children

So now I ask for advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Knowing that this is her greatest fear how is she going to react when any of the children express this desire? How far will she go into using guilt tatics or even expressions like "I am concerned about the relationship you have with your daughter" or "I am concerned about the time you spend alone with your daughter to ensure this fear never comes to pass.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

And that's how I pretty much felt, [color:"purple"]*confused* [/color] about her attitude and reactions. After this drive home it all began to make a little more sense.

Am I attempting to read between the lines or can I be pretty sure that until she learns to deal with that fear that any sence of a normal attitude will ever be exhibted from her on this subject?

Tough Love,

Just curious - how do you know this is her greatest fear? Has she said so? Maybe you covered it in previous discussions - I'm sorry, I don't recall the details of those.

How has your X reacted to your daughter's wish? So what if she is concerned about the time you spend with your daughter? What's the implication of this, and do you really have to consider this concern? Are you afraid she's going to accuse you of child abuse?

I don't have any advice other than forewarned is forearmed - take the precautions you need to, but try to not to be held hostage by her fears.

How do I know?

Almost a year after our divorce I arrived to pick the children up. On the counter was a stack of junk mail that belonged to me. There beside it was some paperwork from the same company that I was attending for counseling.

My first thought was "Why are they sending my mail over here. They have the correct mailing address for me. After picking it up I relaized it was not mine but hers. Apparently she had started counseling again and it was a questionaire she had filled out. One of the questions on the first page was " My greatest fear is" (fill in the blank)"losing my children."

How has she reacted to our daughter's wishes? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

FW: (calm tone) A daughter needs to be with her mother.
DD: (calm) Then DS needs to be with his Daddy.
FW: (slightly angry) Your brother and sister need you to be here for them.
DD: (calm)My brother and sister need their Daddy to be here for them too.
FW: (angry) The law says that the age of emancipation is 18. Until you are 18 you will not leave this house.
DD: (calm) I would like to think that you and Daddy could come to an agreement on this. But the law also says that at age 14 my opinion plays a huge role if I'm willing to talk to a Judge.
FW: (screaming) So you're saying I'm a bad mother.
DD: (crying) No, I am saying that I want to live with Daddy.
FW: (screaming) You're not going anywhere until you are 18 if I have anything to do with it.
DD: (crying) But I really want to live with Daddy.
FW: (screaming) You ought to be ashamed for even thinking such a thing. Look at all that I do for you.
DD: (crying) But you never listen to me.
FW: (screaming) I listen and I've told you that you're not going.
DD: (crying) But Daddy was there when my period started. And he's the one that explained what was going on. You've never told me what was happening to me.
FW: (slightly scremaing) I thought Grandma or Aunt X explained that to you.
FW: (screaming at me) You should be ashamed of yourself, coming over here and ruining your son's birthday. (Son was not even at home, he was at the lake fishing) How dare you make my daughter tell me I'm a bad mother.

Me: (clamly) I had nothing to do with this. When I got our of the car DD came to me and said that she had talked with you about this last night and that you told her no. She then asked if I would talk to you about it. I explained to her that I had hoped you and I could agree as mature adults to honor our daughter's wish's as you've always told them "Whatever the children want".
(shortened version)

And not much more was said. During the entire conversation DD was sitting on the couch next to me crying. FW was on the other side of the living room. DS and I left shortly after that to celebrate his birthday. (I had to drive to the lake to pick him up)

Child Abuse? *chuckles* It's a far cry from child abuse. The only reason I did not contest the divorce was because she had shown me how far she may be willing to go. The rest of the sentence was more along the lines of "Since I am not meeting your needs for sex I am concerned about the time you spend alone with your daughter." At that time I quitely bowed out as I did not think the children needed to experience a long drawn out custody battle. And our DD did not need to be questioned about the ethics of her Daddy.

While I had nothing to fear I do know what that simple statement and the courts can do. Not in the same sense but look where Leah2be is today. And I did not want or desire any seeds of doubt to be placed in our daughter's mind.

What's the implication of this, and do you really have to consider this concern?

Consider it? Not at all. If there was any truth to her fears of me and my daughter I would assume that I would not have unsupervised visitation (parenting) time with her. I truly believe that it was only a hole card she played to get exactly what she wanted.

But it was a "thought" as I said before. I was actually thinking along the lines of a wounded bear and someone trying to take her cubs from her. She would do anything to protect them and I was curious of because of her preceived fear of losing the children that she too may do anything to ensure that she keeps them.

HI EVERYONE,

I'm so sorry I haven't been able to write much lately. I've been keeping up with all of you by reading here whenever I get a chance. Things are still very difficult with my H.

He is taking the girls against their will and mine. We've had some very bad scenes. I try so hard to be at peace with him but he's making it quite impossible. My heart goes out to the girls through all of this. They have been put through so much.

We have two upcoming court days in October. Both dates are dealing with custody issues. We also are going to attempt mediation before those dates. I would love to think this thing could be dealt with outside of court but based on our last attempt, I'm doubtful.

Last time we met with our attorneys and it was a very ugly mess. The attorneys just heated up the whole situation. They were going after each other and nothing was resolved, not even a temporary visitation schedule. So for now, my H is calling all the shots. I let him know I disagree with what is happening but then he precedes to do as he wishes. My attorney said it would just be anarchy until we get to court.

I do not have much faith in the justice system anymore after the devastation of my last court date. I believe I read it on this thread... The justice system may be legal but it sure isn't moral. That I absolutely agree with!

Although, the girls are gone a lot with their dad, I've been staying very busy with a lot of other things in life. My brother and his family are staying with me while their home is being built. It's almost done. So... I'm doing some extra cooking, cleaning, chauferring and all those other "Mommy" tasks. They're my substitute children for awhile.

It's good to have something different to think about and do. I've also resumed all my volunteer work with the schools and church.

Overall, I'm doing well. I am grateful for God's grace and strength through this whole process. I'm finally letting go of a very unhealthy, abusive relationship. I'm starting to feel a new freedom after seven years of intense emotional pain and suffering.
It's like a door is just beginning to open up for me. There is a hope and a future out there. God will see me through.

TRUSTING HIM, E.C.,

Its great to hear from you both. It's been a long time. I'm glad to know you are both doing well. Trusting, will your daughter be coming to live with you this year? Will this issue have to go back to court before she can come and live with you?

AVONDALE,

I understand about the ring. It took me seven years before I could take mine off. I kept wanting to hold out for that miracle. Unfortunately, it took some pretty severe "whacks" to the head, before I realized I needed to LET GO.

I'd love to learn you've "fallen in love" for real! That would be exciting! But I also think it would be wonderful for you to be reunited with your former husband. It seems you have so much more positive to look back on than I ever did. It's great that you can say that you had a wonderful marriage. I'm afraid I could never use that adjective. Keep looking up Avondale and thanks for your prayers.

DEJA VU,

Yes, I've felt those same emotions of wanting to just "run from it all" My thirteen year old just asked me that the other day. She said, "Mom, don't you think it would be nice to move someplace new where no one knows us and to be able to start off fresh and new?" There's a part of me that could really appeal to.

I hope you are feeling better both physically and emotionally. I will keep you in my prayers. Take care.

HI TO PETVET, WALLACE, AND ANYONE ELSE ON THIS THREAD,

I hope you all are doing well. Wallace, I hope you've been able to emerge from the bathroom and take a breather. That is sweet about your commitment rings. I hope you and G/F are doing well still.

Take care everyone and I will try to write more often in between all the drama. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> God bless each of you!

[color:"blue"]Trusting [/color] - I think we've talked about your former's obsessiveness before. What are the reasons she fears losing the kids? Appearance? She wants to be needed? Lack of other things to fill her life? She has a mean streak and just wants to "win"? What's your opinion?

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - what other support system is there for you? Do you have extended family anywhere nearby? Do you have insurance that might assist with home care for a while during recovery from surgery? I know sometimes things seem hopeless; I'm sorry you're having to go through all that.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - Are you still taking classes? For some reason I thought you went back to school. I'm glad you're back posting on this thread (and elsewhere).

That's so true. But sometimes we like to live our little fantasies of the grass being greener elsewhere!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - It's great to hear from you. I'm so sorry you're having such a difficult time with your H. Do you feel better about your lawyer these days? Keep your head on straight - your kids are old enough to know who's "stable" and who's not....and they'll remember your actions when they get older and can really make their own decisions about how much interaction to have with their dad.

[color:"blue"]Wallace, Petvet [/color] - Hey y'all!

Hi all.........

Avondale - Yes, I am still in school at the associate level for now....I'm doing the distant learning thing, therefore I can go at my own pace.


Me: Yesterday, I went to the bookstore and had a blast! Since I've been on my own I have just fallen in love with reading even more. I have so many books, but not enough time to read them. I saw some books yesterday I wanted but then thought, I can't get to them until next year. I even saw this one book on "Desperate House Wives" believe or not. It had scripts, scenes, shots, etc. I think it will become a collectors item Im sure.....Anyway, I saw 10-15 more books I wanted but walked out with one. My two oldest books I have are dated 1854 and 1893. What's interesting about the 1893 book is that it's talking about the concern of the "ozone", yep in 1893!.

Ok, so now, at that time, we have no cars invented, no space station, no satelites, no rockets, etc....Hmmmm? So the ozone issue was noticed and recorded 120 years ago. So today I have a hard time with the current day global warming theories. I find it humerous how they say it's because of cars, cows, new inventions, etc...

So the ozone issue has been out there for 100 years. There are so many old problems we deal with today and we call them new issues or crisis.

On another note: Oil - To date man don't know where oil came from " They tell everyone from dead dinosaurs". They give a theory, not facts. Dead dinosaurs did not sink to the earths core under 40 miles of water and become petroleum. The DNA from dinosaurs should resemble that of Oil if that were true, but it don't. The Oil came with the creation of earth. If oil came from dead dinosaurs then allegators should be ozzing out the ying yang with some related substance filling our gas tanks, instead all they do is bite and swallow people and good for a pair of shoes and purses, oh and some do eat them.

Anyway I just marvel how we can swallow such lies and false theories. Since DNA has come on the scene, you notice that the theory man came from monkey took a back seat? The DNA design from the creation of mankind has never changed, hmmm?

Anyway I like old books, it messes with things in the present day when we think we have advanced but are really living the past....Example: Adultery, the bible has countless stories of the emotional injury of it, yet a WS has found something new and secret.

The newest thing a person could discover is the life God has prepared for them. Nobody could ever do what God has given you to do because nobody has been created to do it but you. You might find someone of a like nature, but they can't do it like you. God does not clone, he creates.

See ya!

Well, Trusting Him, Leah2... your issues with children make my hip look like nothing. I guess I've got it pretty good after all. My thoughts are with you both.

EC - I'm with you - I LOVE books! If there is an addictive bone in my body, it's to buying books. My new house has more BR's than I need, so I turned one into a library - something I've always wanted - and I'm LOVIN' it.

Hi all!

Avondale: Thanks for your enlightened comments about EHarmony and also thanks for your comments about Buddy's family property in New Orleans. They have insurance on all the property even though a few of the insurance companies are giving them a hard time. I'm happy you can say that you had a good marriage; where did it go wrong?

Leah: I hate to see you you go through all the pain of divorce and the legal mess. Stay strong.

EC: I know of someone who could not let go of an old bond from years ago, and recently got her feelings hurt because the old bond still has not changed from his bad ways.

Trusting: That is one of my fears is that my son will choose to be with his mom when he gets older.

Me: All is well.

Later.

Hi Leah - I'm sorry to see you go through this DV ordeal, but as you said there's something greater on the other side. I was the one that said the court system does not acknowledge moral law in DV cases. They could careless what is morally right, they abide only what the law says. Therefore if the law is corrupt and against what is right and immoral you have judges who rule according to that system. Just remember WS's who do crooked stuff in court have a hidden long term plan, they aren't dealing with the moment but setting up there future. Remember they disconnected maybe years ago. They have already lived this out and what they would do. We as the BS are trying to deal with the moment and are caught off gaurd with there actions. So the courts treat you as if you are strangers, they careless what kind of moral bond you have or had.

DV law use to be against those who did wrong and favored the injured person. It has now turned more for those who do crooked and evil things that they now have the upper hand. As I always say, they still have one more eternal judge to face and it ain't going to be pretty.

Anyway keep strong, you're going to make it through this. Just remember that things work together for the good and no matter what happens you are going to walk in victory.

Tr Him - I remember going through the emotional battle of the custody issue with my girls. Because of the age of my kids I let them make the choice who they wanted to be with. I knew it was best they be with me and knew they would suffer with her but I had to let them make that choice. My OD wanted mom. YD wanted both. I then decided I would not war over that issue eventhough I knew what was best, besides I didn't have the attorney money anyway.

It was painful times they suffered while I paid the CS more than enough. Utilities were always off. Since we have been DV she has moved many times.

I think it was 2004 after my YD had grad from HS, YD told me that during HS days YD and OD went to Sam's Club bought boxes of candy bars, turned and sold them for profit to supply there lunch money and laundry money during HS.

I heard that and my heart broke and I was fumming. I was fumming because all the CS I was paying and exww was spending the money on OM. But then I said to myself but this what you guys wanted, so I had to let it go. To date they blame me for all what they went through because exww told them I never paid anything and we're apart because I left her to be a single mother. To date OD denies any serial affairs happened, so they're still under the brainwash. I have never shared what happened in detail, in the past when I tried they told me I was a liar, yet I have names, conversations, addresses, documents, witnesses,etc...

So our relationship has been strained since and never repaired. They only call unless they need money, then they fade away again. It's not fair, but all you can do is wait for the day when they want to restore the relationship. I look back and just marvel because my daughters were my everything. My every living moment surrounded them, then poof! they're taken from you by deception. So cherish every moment you have with them.

A lot of my healing has come in helping young teenagers achive and being involved in what they do. They think I'm the best thing since sliced bread. I just tell them, listen just because all that has happened I'm not going to stop being a father, I need to help somebody's kid and in return they're like yeah and I need a father figure in my life, so it's an even exchange.

Deja Vu - Despite your phy injuries I know that you will come through this in a way you never thought possible. Many times as our lives shift, we think it's the ending when it's just a rearrangement of the greater thing, but however old pattens we know want take us to that greater thing. So as we walk through life in places and positions we have never been in we can't figure it out, but have to walk by faith and learn and grab the treasures during the journey.

Petvet - I know what you mean about people that hold the "Old bond". Thinking that old bond holds some type of vaule from your past. You hear the story all the time, well after I dv'd I found my old HS sweetheart, then tragedy strikes when the once used to be nice little Johnny boy from HS 20 years ago has developed a stealing problem and has robbed 3 other wives leaving them bankrupt and moves to the next victim, oh from HS.

I was recently warned from a HS friend to stay away from a certain woman because she robs men, I said noway!! I said she was the nicest girl during HS, she was the poster girl. He said oh no, she gets you to marry her, have a baby, take your money, then dump you for CS. He said why do you think she lives there and drives that and never worked? and has all those kids? Men are drawn to her because she appears successful, of course he was one of the victims that had the OLD Bond from 15 years ago, never moved on with life from his past thinking back about her who only took him for a wild ride.

Take Care.........

HI ALL,

Thank you for all your prayers, well wishes and support. It means a lot.

EC

The whole idea of wrong being rewarded in court is very disconcerting. That was part of the problem last time. It was H and OW's LIES against my truth and their LIES won out. That was the most difficult thing to accept!! I still have to keep reminding myself that God knows the truth. He is the ultimate judge. I'm trying to trust Him with all of this.


Everyone... A Huge Concern

Any input on this would be appreciated. As most of you know my H has filed for custody of the girls. He has basically been absent for nearly 14 years of their life BUT has totally changed in the past four months since he has decided he wanted a divorce.

I've been a stay at home mom and have been the constant factor in their lives as he has been busy building his business and pursuing other woman. Both activities necessitated many evenings and weekends away from home. He travelled much of the time.

Now he is showering them with gifts and time. Obviously, they have been starved for his affection and attention so that feels good. But, I truly believe this too will change in time. H loves the thrill of the chase and the challenge but doesn't know what to do when he gets what he wants. It suddenly becomes non-interesting to him.

That's what happened in our relationship. He chased and pursued because I was a challenge. Once I committed myself to him in marriage all the excitement was gone for him. He lost interest and began looking for new relationships that could supply him with the all time high of falling in love.

Also, I thought I was suppose to be submissive and compliant, that H was the head of the household. Unfortunately I learned too late that I had a distorted view of things. My H is extremely strong and a master manipulator. He is very convincing. He is working hard to convince the girls to be with him.

Because I was always compliant and often gave into my H to have peace in the household, the girls have seen that behavior modeled their whole lives. It was a way of life...trying to keep dad happy.

So, I am very concerned that they will go against what they REALLY want, to live with me and visit him, just to keep peace. They have articulated as much to me. They tell me they want to be with me but Dad is going to be so mad if they don't spend at least half their time with him. They hate the back and forth thing but are willing to sacrifice their happiness for him.

Any suggestions of what I can do to help them understand it's okay for them to disappoint him if that is what they truly want? This is such a HUGE decision that will affect the rest of their lives. He is pressuring them so much right now.

As it is they won't have to go to court, as they will have a court appointed advocate. But that, too, is scarry to them. They are quiet, shy girls who are very private with their feelings. HELP?!?!

Hi Leah...

I'm just curious, why come if you had custody, your girls feel they can't see there Dad? Do they know that if you have custody they still can see him?

Even after I moved out of state, I agreed that my kids would visit me anytime if it didn't conflict with there school days.

One thing I wrestled with during the custody issue was, I knew they would suffer with her, but if they knew I knew that, would they come back later and say, if you loved us why come you didn't fight for us? If they were young and in danger I would have found a way despite what they wanted. Your H may be fighting to avoid paying CS, his motive may not be to be a father but a CS issue.

I don't know what State you live in but in some states if the woman was a stay home wife, she is entitled to 50% of the H's income as spousal support + CS. Also she is entitled to recieve something like a educational income since she stayed home for many years....

As I said excersize all your rights according to the law, don't be intimidated, kick those eggshell shoes to the side, make sure your attorney understands what you want. Search the laws yourself also to make sure your attorney doesn't miss anything you need.

Hey All!

Leah...

EC made some very good points concerning your custody situation... I agree with EC as well... concerning your "H's"motivation for wanting custody.
If I were you, I would fight to the bitter end to get the Judge to allow you to be the "Custodial Parent".

You may need to have your daughters tell the Advocate in their own words just what you posted here. I'm sure the Judge might find that to be a very interesting reason on why your girls would want to live with your "H" instead of you.

I also agree with EC about how unfair the Justice System is.

All it has become now... is a system that just herds you in, and herds you right back out again. They could care less about dispensing Justice... if they cared... there wouldn't be any "No-Fault" divorces... someone instead would have to pay and pay dearly for their dirty deeds. If you could submit to the Judge all the garbage the wayward spouse did, and use it as evidence of violating their contract of marriage... because that's all the States see it as... the WS wouldn't stand a chance.

I beat the odds and got Custody of all of my kids in spite of the way the Courts handle the divorce situations. It wasn't easy, but it was well worth it.

Your "H" may be a manipulator, but your going to need to stand up to him, and take this bull by the horns and get with your attorney and your girls, and lay it out the way it truly is. Your only really going to get one shot at it... make it your best shot.

Deja Vu...

There has been many times that I wanted to just get up and walk away from everything... and it's perfectly normal to feel that way... just don't do it.

There is nothing easy about what you are going through... and IMHO it is one of the most difficult things you may ever have to deal with.

You will get through it though... and it will take a lot of time to heal from it all... but as time goes on the pain of it all lessens.

avondale...

I'm with you about the moving thing. The grass is not always greener on the other side... especially if you have kids involved in it.

Petvet...

What's with the Eharmony interest?

Are you and buddy still together, or did the Prenup situation end all of that?

Trusting Him...

It's good to see you posting... you have a way of putting things into perpective, as well as being able to take the "high road" on many of these issues that can just drive you crazy.

EC...

It's good to see you posting as well...

I can understand you heartache concerning your daughters. I'm not sure I could of made it through all the nonsense if I didn't have God and my kids in my life.

And if anyone is wondering if I'm still working on my bathrooms... the answer is yes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'm just about done... and after my bathrooms are complete, I'm going to take a break away from remodeling for a bit.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"]Leah [/color] ,
The fact that you posted so many details shows how dire you feel your situation has become. I don't know anything about custody, but I do know a little bit about people. We all agree your H is a manipulator and "taker". It sounds like the guys here think you should go for broke (pardon the pun!). So, for that result, have you considered reminding the girls that:

• 1. Their dad was never around before the custody issue started
  2. Their dad has the money to buy things for their affection
  3. Their dad has not been faithful to you
  4. They don't NEED to keep Daddy happy
  5. They need to keep you happy (ok, so maybe that's a little biased, but you know what I mean <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />!)
  

I know they're at different ages so you could scale how much you tell them towards their age & understanding.

OR you could take the totally high road and risk losing everything and wonder "what if". I honestly think you can be a little more assertive without getting too bound up in a wrong way.
How is the other court thing going? Any update there?

[color:"blue"]Wallace [/color] - I think you must have a million dollar bathroom. So how does the rest of your house compare?!

[color:"blue"]Trusting & EC [/color] - It's good to hear from you!

Hi Everyone.....

I saw a documentary on TV the other day and it featured "Bob Dylan". I have never been a "Bob Dylan" fan but I like him as a person.

One thing that caught my attention as they told his story of his beginning days in the 60's was his "Courage" during the different aspects of the peace and civil rights movement. One thing he said " You got to put your body in the meat grinder and break the system".

As I thought about that comment I thought "Whatever happen to the people of today that would lay down and sacrifice their everything for the good and advancement of mankind" as in those days putting your life on the line".

Well I think we have seen another wave birthed by the 2 hurricanes. People stepped out beyond there comfort zone, moved by great compassion. One thing I can say about America is that our love is bigger than the storm. In that your love is bigger than your storm.

Americans put there bodies in the system once again with there love and outreach and broke the system from saying God is not needed, churches are not needed, more churches and people reached out more than any Federal Gov't program. We did what the Gov't could not do "Love and Care for people".

Anyway I admire Bob Dylan for what he stood for, he said he was not looking to be a star, but that he was just an ordinary guy doing an exordinary thing with his music that he wanted no part of anyone's click, left or right wing group. People were moved, not wanting to be star but just wanted help from the great love of there hearts.

It goes to prove that if some great desire burns within you, you'll do whatever it takes to make it happen. we are seeing a lot of great lessons before our eyes today on "Whatever it takes" I'll do it.

See ya!

What goes around comes around.... or "the sins of the father..." or something like that. Seems to me it is time to break the mold, though it is the kids who will have to be the ones to do it. I'm sure they've learned not only to keep the peace, but some fear of their father's anger as well. Perhaps since he left you, they fear he will abandon them too, if they displease him. To be rejected by a parent is the ultimate destruction of trust. I truly feel for your kids in this - there is no way they can win, or even break even, is there?

So, I don't think I have any wisdom to share - other than to find some way to give them the strength they need. To be there, and let them know they have YOUR unconditional love. Because it doesn't sound like their father is capable of that. I surely hope if he gets custody he doesn't lose interest in them once he's "won" them - and they end up feeling the rejection anyway.

(((((((((((Leah)))))))))))

Deja Vu,

I read your post before you deleted it and I had just responded to it when I discovered it was deleted. They would not post my post because yours was being deleted at the same time. So... are you okay?? I'm very concerned for you and have been over here praying and typing as fast as I can. I wrote previously for you to please e-mail me with your phone number and I would call you if you'd like.

Please know we all care and you are not alone. God is with us even when we can't always feel it. He wants to be your Peace and comfort. We want to help too. Hugs and prayers to you!!

Avondale, E.C. and Wallace,

I'm trying to remember all that I just finished writing which got lost. Thank you all for your comments and helpful suggestions.

Yes, money is part of H's motivating factor. He already threatened that before. He said he would only have to pay me half the CS if he gets 50% of the custody. Also, CONTROL is a huge motivating factor. H has always called the shots. The thought of me having more influence or say in family matters would be enough to throw him into a major tailspin.

I like your list of considerations, AVONDALE. As always you think of some good points. I'm trying to find the balance of trying to influence their thinking without presuring them and or putting them in the middle.

I desparately want what is best for these girls. Which puts me in a tough position as what I feel is best is so different than H, which leads to total strife, which is not best for the girls either.

As E.C. commented, about giving up with the idea of sparing them the huge conflict, it reminded me of the story in the Bible about the two mothers fighting about a baby they both claimed as theirs. When Soloman offered a possible solution, the real mother gave up her rights to save the baby, and by doing so, she gained her baby. Are you familiar with the story?

Also, E.C., you asked if the girls realized they could visit their dad if they lived with me. They do know they could see him often. They fear what DEJA VU commented on... they fear his rejection and anger. They know he wants a minimum of 50/50 time. Therefore anything less than this is going to upset him.

AVONDALE, I will give you a call to update you on the other court thing. Not much going on there because I've had to focus so much on the custody battle.

Well folks, that is the very condensed version of what I posted originally. THANKS to all of you for being such a terrific bunch. I appreciate your encouragement so much!! Hope you all have a great weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by EverlastingCompassion

I'm sorry about that post that I deleted. I felt stupid this morning and hoped I got it deleted before anyone saw it. I don't usually bare my soul that much, atleast not when it's that raw - and lately when I have, it has seemed like the WRONG thing to do.

EC - your thoughts are appreciated. I will reread them when I'm not in such a dark place, when they will make more sense to me.

Leah - you've got mail!

Hi Everyone...

Happy October - Time to pull out the cider and dried corn stalks. I love fall, especially about the 3 week in Oct. The tree's turn all kind of brillant colors. There's no fall scene like the "Blue Ridge Mountains" on the east coast. I pulled out picture I took some years ago of the mountains and I thought it was a post card. I remember when I lived in the mountains I remember this lady that always sat on her porch smoking a pipe.

Wallace - Glad to hear from you. I guess you must have a killer bathroom with all the work you've done. How are things with your OD? Is she still distant? It's good you have your YD, she will thank you in years to come. I miss mine greatly, but I can't chase them either. There practicing manipulation right now "Draw you in when they want something, then cut you loose once they got it". So I have to just back off as hard as it is. I don't want them to grow up to think this is how you treat men as there mother has. If they got married, they would only reflect to there H, well this is how I treated my father, so you do the same, he gave me what I wanted. So since they haven't come to visit period, I've cut all funding to anything, not another dime until they come.


Deja Vu - I deleted my response to your earlier post because if you thought you said to much of your raw inner expressions I felt it best to remove what I posted since it listed quotes of those things. Just trying to make you feel at peace.

Avondale - So what are you up to these days?

Have a blessed and overcoming day!!