I do not post much but i do visit and read alot in here. I'm not good at butting my feeling down an my spelling is awful.....you have been warned.<P>To sum things up my W had a EA starting around July and the PA from late Sept.-Dec. and we had not had sex sense early Sept. The baby girl is due on the 16th, only about a week away. Now the W said that there is no way that the baby could not be mine. BUT how will I know unless I get a parental test, and to do that it will be a very major LB. Now D day was the 27 of Dec. so things are pretty ify with us still and that is also the day I found out she was pregnent. And she seems to still be having trouble meeting alot of my E needs, but according to her I have improved meeting hers (although she didn't say it that directly she does not like talking but that to is changing).I'm just not sure if the information I was given on when the PA started was true because I Know that the EA had started back as early as July. <P>I guess the thing that I'm wodering is do I have this done and if so how could I bring this up without being a LB??<P>If it is not mine I do know that I'm leaving her because I'm not sure I could handle that But the real kicker would be that she has been NOT TRUITHFUL still.<P>The other thing that I have noticed is that I seem to be very much a mess lately (probably) because of the baby being due anyday.The W has been doing much better then I, this could be because we have not had a heart to heart talk in about 3 or more week(didn't want to get her upset so close to the due date). I did asked the W if I should be in the delivery room or not and she seemed surprized that I even asked. Then asked me where-else would I be. <BR>But i have not felt like part of this pregnance at all, Heck I haven't even felt the baby move yet and although I am sure that if I asked to do that she would let me. Just not sure if I want too. I had tried before but she was not comfortable about it. And after feeling rejected for so long I no long feel comfortable. Yes we do say I love you to each other and we do kiss but she doesn't enjoy the kisses and a french kiss is out of the question although it would mean the world to me! <BR>Anyways I'm just starting to go on an on. So the last thing I will say is yes I will be in the room with her giving birth. I THINK I want to but more important I want to be there for her if she needs me <BR>NO Love Busters right??<p>[This message has been edited by BL (edited May 10, 2000).]

So do you want to be divorced or not? <P>Once you make that decision everything makes sense. <P>If you do not, then ASSUME it isn't yours, but always act as if it is. No testing allowed, that will only hurt everybody. You are the legal dad because you are legally married to the mother. No adoption or paternity procedings are required. <P>Did you really check out the dates? From this due date her last period would have been August 23, 1999. She was already pregnant when the EA started according to these dates you give.<P>Good luck!<P>Karenna<p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited May 10, 2000).]

NO I DO NOT WANT A DIVORCE<P>Not sure what it is you are saying yes I'm the dad but am I the natual father? And yes the emotional affair had started in time but it takes a physical act(PA) to conceive. I also think a marriage takes 2 and if she is still not tell the truth about her relationship with OM how can we work on this marriage??<P>If I just assume that it is not mine but love Her(the baby) like it is that would be the easy part. Kids Are wonderful and are so easy to love! I worry more about the relationship with my wife. Giving my wife the love she needs, desires an deserves is what I really want to do and yes I do question my ability to provide this if I was to have a reminder of her infidelity with me always. I am also a stay at home dad so I am the primary caregiver and I'm scared about rasing a child that is not mine. Maybe I'm scared about this going to be our 3rd kid and I feel like my hand are already full, can I handle three is a question I keep asking myself BUT i don't think I can handle 3 if 1 is not mine.<P>I also realise that I'm second guess what I can or can not do and that I probably not know until the time comes.<BR>But is it to much of a love buster to get a blood test or what every it is that they do to determine if I am the father. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BL:<BR><B>To sum things up my W had a EA starting around July and the PA from late Sept.-Dec. and we had not had sex sense early Sept. The baby girl is due on the 16th, only about a week away. Now the W said that there is no way that the baby could not be mine. BUT how will I know unless I get a parental test.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is something only you can decide. How will things change if it is yours? how will things change if it isn't? If you are truly commited to your wife, does it really make much difference?<P>In my case, my H told me that he had a one night stand. Okay, I can deal with that. We started working things out and getting back together, only guess what? He lied. It wasn't a one night stand. It was a YEAR of lies. The affair actually only lasted two months, but the OW conceived immediately, so he kept the whole thing from me until she called up one day and spilled the beans.<P>I am finding now that what hurts more than anything is that he didn't trust me with the truth. It hurts that the man that I love has the integrity of a worm. It hurts that I have no respect for someone I shared 8 years of my life with.<P>Yes, I exploded, but I think things would be a lot less emotional now if he had just told the truth in the beginning. For me, I always vote for knowing the truth.

Oh, one more thing. I know this is a MAJOR Love bust and goes against what I just said about valuing trust, but it is an option you can consider. You can get a DNA test with just the mother or father and the child. I think the lab sends you a free kit. You swab the saliva from the inside of your and the child's cheek, send it in, and voila! Instant anonymous paternity test!<P>If this is deceptive, then just do it out in the open. She can't blame you for wanting to know the truth.

You probably should see a lawyer to make a fully informed decision. But here's a rough sketch of your situation. Most states have a rebuttable assumption of paternity. That means that at the moment the child of a marriage is born, you are assumed to be the father. If you have reason to believe that you are not the father, you can litigate paternity immediately, in the process of filing a divorce, and not be held financially responsible. If its the OM's child, he will also have the option of litigating paternity, although the income shares awards are high enough to scare away almost all OMs.<BR><BR>The catch is that if you wait, the longer you form a father-child relationship, the more likely you *will* be declared the legal father for the child. This means that if your wife later leaves you, you will be ordered to pay child support for a child that isn't yours. Now, you mention that you already have two children, so the marginal increase in child support wouldn't be that much, but you should be aware that you are gambling part of your future income stream against the possibility that your wife may later leave you.<BR><BR>Btw, I'd personally abolish assumed paternity laws. The way I'd change things, if an OM impregnates a W, then the H should never be held responsible for child support for that child. If the OM decides to litigate paternity by some reasonable age (say age 2), then he can assert full parental rights, with visitation. If by inaction of proactive waiving his rights, the OM has not asserted paternity, then the H should have the option, but not the obligation, to adopt the child. Regardless of the adoption decision, if at any later point the marriage ends, the H shall have an automatic default of 50% custody of all children in the marriage, including the child born from the affair. At that point, the W shall have the option of suing the OM for child support, prohibiting arrears prior to the separation/divorce. Hey, I oughtta be a lobbyist! <BR><BR>Bystander

BL:<P>You have just received the soundest advice you can garner on this thread from Bystander and from Popeye and from Karenna. I have nothing more to add as I concur with their ideas. Good luck and you're in the right place.<P>catnip =^^=

WOW I never know or thought of all the legal ****!!!<P>Thabks for some of the food for thought<P>BUT for this next week all I'm tring to do is fumble through the birth, pray it is mine and figure out if I should findout if the baby is mine or trust that my W is tell the truth. She said that it is mine and I'm tring to have blind faith or trust what ever you want to call it.<P>And for child support I'm a househusband so she would be paying me HAHAAH<BR>BUT we are not there and I hope that we never get to that.

BL,<P>It seems to me from your post, that you NEED to know whether you are the father or not. You are drawing away from you W worrying about this situation. You are right you will very likely love this child no matter what, but your relationship with your W is at stake. <P>Popeye suggested a path for you to take. In fact your W doesn't need to know that you have done a paternity or DNA test. No matter what the results are. I suspect you will be able to deal with either situation. And if it is true that you are the father you will know that you W told you the truth about perhaps the most important thing in life.<P>As it is, you strongly suspect she is lying to you. This is not good for you or her. By the way, the lying is a natural part of the affair. It is very possible that if you rebuild your marriage, that she will be honest with you if she was before the affair.<P>Just my $0.02. Good luck.<P>God Bless You and Your Family,<P>JL

I concur just like Catnip. I agree that does seem that you need to know, and to be honest that is natural. If you already have two children, then you have a good way to tell if this child is yours on looks alone. Do you know what the other man looked like? If he had features which were quite different that yours, you will see them. I know this isn't the same as a DNA test, but it will be obvious start to know. I know that my daughter and the OC child do not look at all alike. They are both two. But that is because I have strong genes. You don't want to look at that child and always wonder, that could put a wedge in all of your relationships. The swab test is easy. Good luck, I will be looking for future posts from you.<P>babstr.

I honestly do not know what to think of this post. If you can't say something nice...I'll try,<P>First and foremost to me...the legal stuff, I at one time might have entertained the same ideas, but through self examination and alot of praying, that it is definitely not the answer. And if Bystander becomes a lobbyist I'll be first in line on the opposite side.<P>My family has become very dear to me. I cherish them with every breath. My W had an affair and got pregnant by the OM. 10 Days ago MY son was born. I hold him and stare into his face and tell him that know matter what, Daddy will take care of him. It is not his fault for my shortcomings, it is not his fault my W left, it is not his fault that I did not prevent it. The only thing I blame him for is filling my heart once more to the point of busting.<P>I have three other boys, this one makes the fourth. I would / will fight tooth and nail for them all...equally.<P>Perhaps she is not being honest, perhaps needs on both sides are not being met. This you can work on...but do not fault the child, and don't let her become the reason for any of your decisions. <P>I now relenquish the soapbox...<P>Good Luck and God Bless<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Paul,<P>You (and K) are rare gems. I am humbled by your enormous heart and amazing capacity for the ability to welcome this child into your life so entirely and completely, without reservation.<P>You are a better person than I.<P>Blessings to you and your family and your new son.<P>Catnip =^^=

Paul,<BR>I want to second Catnip's sentiment about how special you and K are to accept these children into your lives. Congratulations on the birth of your 4th son!<P>Take care,<BR>Audrey

<BR>Paul,<P>I am very impressed with your decision to raise the OC. <P>The legal issues remain separate, though. What part of my proposal do you disagree with?<P>The current policies we have are in fact anti-marriage and anti-family. Why should a man whose W becomes pregnant with an OM be forced to decide between the possibility of years of child support and staying in the marriage? The W needs to re-earn the H's trust, and it could take some time for that to happen. And if it doesn't happen, but enough time has elapsed, the H will have squandered his right to rebut the assumption of paternity. The courts will then decide that the H is now the father for the purpose of child support. <BR>Understandably, a lot of men won't risk that outcome (implicit is a revulsion to paying for another man's child), and will walk away from an otherwise saveable marriage. By simply assigning the economic consequences of fatherhood to the biological father (even if he is out of the picture), we can effectively preserve these marriages.<P>As a practical matter, the income shares mounts are high enough to scare away most OMs anyhow, and in my proposal the H has the option to adopt the child outright by age two. At that point, the OM is eliminated from the picture altogether. What is so disagreeable about this proposal?<P>Bystander<BR>

Thank you Catnip & Audrey...<P>Bystander: I see what you are saying and have actually had those thoughts myself. I guess where I am hung up is the general degredation of families and marriages as a whole. Once you start digging further and involving children I begin to wander when it will stop. At what point do "parents-to-be" have to sign "intent" forms before even having a child. Promising xxxx amount of support and xxxx amount of time. At what point does the courts stop and God start?<P>So what if neither the H nor the OM want to raise this child? Who will the child call Daddy? What's wrong with the courts assuming that a child born into a marriage to be the H's. It is one thing if the H files "something" ahead of time questioning paternity, but otherwise why not assume. I'm sure when God created you and I He assumed that the only children you and I would have would be with our spouse, correct? I guess that's what I have a problem with, the "non-assumption" part of your idea.<P>I won't even begin to debate the financial part of it. In this I do agree with you. Our current system is completely anti family.<P>Also why is automatically assumed that if a divorce happens that the children will go with the mother? I guess I am not truely objective about it, but if my W and I divorced I would whole-heartedly try to keep all my kids...all.<P>Again thanks for the support and the congrats for my son.<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

<BR>Paul,<P>I agree that our society is degrading marriages and families...and that's why I'm putting forward my suggested solution to the problem. Make no mistake: The current assumed paternity laws *encourage* the destruction of an otherwise saveable marriage. A lot of men simply will not risk the possibility that they will pay child support for another man's child if the marriage later ends. We can talk around that all we want, but the end result is that the assumed paternity laws have to be changed somehow.<P>Why? As I pointed out, the way things stand now, when a wife conceives an OM's child, the H is forced to risk child support for another man's child if he decides to stay in the marriage. By the time he can make a reasonable determination concerning trust for his wife, his opportunity to rebut the presumption of paternity will have lapsed. When you couple this with the essentially automatic custody that mothers get, a lot of men will just leave their marriage. Its just not an appealing prospect to pay for another man's child and get humiliated down to "visitor" status in that child's life. Now, you say the H could file something in advance, but we both know that won't stop a court from later slapping the hapless H with a child support judgment, and a competent lawyer will advise a H accordingly. The way things are now, you get one and only one shot at litigating paternity. Otherwise, you are putting your future income stream at risk.<P>"Who will the child call daddy?" You are essentially arguing that the father-child bond should be preserved. See above. In the event of later divorce, my proposal includes an automatic assumption of 50% custody of all marital children, regardless of who the biological father is. Where I differ from current policy (I dryly note, apart from the 50% custody being the default), is that I'd turn around and have the W then sue the OM for child support instead of the H. In my view, this provides all parties involved a fair outcome. And it encourages men whose W's conceive with an OM to stay married.<P>Alright, the question remains, do we really need to repeal assumed paternity laws, or do we simply need to modify our laws concerning rebutting that assumption? As a practical matter, we could leave the assumed paternity laws on the books, but we should rewrite the laws so that DNA evidence should be admissible for establishing non-paternity (for the purpose of avoiding child support) at ANY time. After all, the supposedly benevolent government can use DNA evidence at ANY time to establish paternity for the purpose of setting child support - and in my opinion, it should work the other way as well.<P>Bystander

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: hanora ]</small>

Maybe in a perfect world, Paul. But, this is a corrupt and sinful world.<P>Just for a moment, look at the logic presented by Bystander. He has throughly studied this subject, disected it and come up with some sound and practical solutions that are fair and reasonable and would work very well for most of us in this horror of a situation.<P>Remember, most people are not like you and the rest of us need this protection. The laws and our system are corrupt and manipulated. Innocent spouses and their children often go without and a hardship has been imposed upon them because the OW has selfishly kept the child and continually dragging the WS to court for support actually getting the same amount of $ that a spouse of many years would get, even though she is just a brief affair. She gets far more money than she should and the innocent family suffers.<P>The poor OC is sentenced to living without a Dad and a life with few advantages in many cases. The whole thing is heartwrenching for everyone involved.<P>I am sorry you would lobby against Bystander and logical solutions that would relieve innocent families of manipulating OP's. You must think then that the OC's needs take precedent over the innocent family.<P>Your situation is much differnet from mine. I applaud what you have done and what you are doing. You have the advantage to raise this child as your own and glad to do it without much if any interference from the OM. <P>Again, congrats on your new son. You still have not told us what you named him.<P>Blessings<P>Catnip

Once again I agree with Catnip. I see all of your points Paul. I too am living the life where my child will suffer because the OW and the OC will be taking so much. There was no relationship, and she waited till she needed some money. For a one night stand, my child will lose her food money. We won't be able to pay our bills. There needs to be some changes. The courts need to view every party as equal, that includes all of the children. <P>You are a strong person for handling everything this way. Congrats on your son. <P>babstr.

His name is Christopher Noah <P> Changes do need to be made. I'm just not sure which ones. It's not fair and let's be realistic, it NEVER will be.