a_conundrum<P>This is all so tragic. I am so sorry.<P>I know we were all so uncomfortable advising you against staying with someone who continued to betray you, especially in the Marriage Builders Forum where nearly every marriage is worth an attempt at salvation. I can only speak for myself, but I found it a very difficult thing to tell you.<P>You're so very young, a_c, and I know if you had been in this marriage longer and had children, you would have been encouraged to work the principles and implement the Plan A/Plan B.<P>Nonetheless, it doesn't lessen your pain or make you get through this any easier. You are so very wise for someone so young (and obviously well-read and well-written!) and clearly very intelligent and sensitive. <BR>My guess is that you'll be smart enough to use this as a learning experience and end up in a wonderful, loving and fulfilling marriage some day. You are wise to take time for yourself and learn more about you.<P>God bless you, a_c. Keep posting and let us help you through some of this.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^=<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited January 13, 2001).]

a-c,<P>I don't really know how to state this. Catnip touched on it. I am delighted that you have made this decision. It is the right one, it is best for you, it is best for your STBX, and it will be best for her to be with the father of her child.<P>Having said all of that, I am very sad that you ever had to make such a decision. I will tell you something from experience: ENJOY YOUR 20's. I was a batchelor into my 30's and I had a ball during my 20's. I know you can hardly think of this now, but with time you will be ready. <P>So my advice, heal, work on yourself, get your professional life in order, save some money and invest it wisely (stay away from those .com's ) and most of all learn to truely savor and enjoy your life.<P>I truely believe if you do the early points and learn the last point, you will look back on these current events as very crucial to your development as a good human being.<P>God Bless You Young Man,<P>JL

Dear a_c,<P>Inside the sadness of your last post, I think we were all able to see a strength and conviction that will get you through this awful disappointment in your life.<P>You have been through some heartbreaking moments over the past couple months but already you are channelling your energies and your thoughts into constructive activities.<P>I know what you are going through. I lost my first H at a very young age and the pain of losing what you thought would be forever is more intense when you are young because you have not yet experienced enough life to know that there will be so many other opportunities and chances. But there will be...<P>I, and so many others, have found love a second time and in some ways it is a better love because you become a richer and wiser person with age. I will pray that God will watch over you and continue to guide you towards your forever love.<P>Meanwhile, pamper yourself, keep busy at the gym, and the best of luck with your career growth. As Catnip and Just Learning said, we are here for you if you need us and you will find others in similar situations on the board for couples that are divorcing. Some of their stories and experiences might be comforting to you and give you strength.<P>Whatever happens, I hope that you will at least check in with us every once in a while and give us an update.<P>God bless you.<BR>- Heavenly<p>[This message has been edited by heavenlybody26 (edited January 13, 2001).]

A_conundrum here - slightly different name, same person behind it <P>What a nightmare of a day. I visited my attorney to see about a separation agreement - things seems pretty easy; the last time we were intimate was around Thanksgiving, so that's the cut off date for when our separation begins, I've already discharged all of our joint debts and we've already separated property. So, when I get home, my wife is on messenger and wants to know how things went. So, I went over it with her...and she yelled at me for not lying so that we could get the divorce over with sooner! I never thought being honest would be a bad thing - and I'm not about to commit perjury. She said that she wished she'd never been intimate with me and that she should have known I'd use that to stall the divorce and keep a hold on her. THEN - to make matters much worse, she said that she didn't want to be married to one man and have a child by another. Fair enough, but with the 6 month time frame, she'd have 3 months after the divorce is final, so there wouldn't be an overlap. She said that the reason I'd wanted to have sex was so I could stall the divorce proceedings and use that against her... She doesn't get it - if she doesn't want to be with me, I'm not going to force her (nor would I want to) I'm trying to let her go as gracefully as possible and yet be there for her. She wouldn't listen though and said that I'd help her make a difficult decision and that she wasn't going to bring a child into that kind of chaos and confusion - that she felt I would try to say the child was mine! I was shocked...what planet is she coming from? The odds that it would be mine, after having sex once with protection while she had sex multiple times with the OM without are miniscule. The thought never even crossed my mind; I was more concerned about protecting myself from any legal action she might decide to take! Then she said that I'd helped her decide to get an abortion, etc.<BR>I don't get this...I've gone out of my way to be supportive - even offering to take the child and her in, I've kept her on my health insurance, etc. Then, when she said she didn't want to be with me, I contacted my attorney to see about getting a divorce to spare her the cost and need to deal with that on top of everything else. Yet, I made it clear that I still loved her and wanted to be there for her, even though it hurt. So, how does she get from this that I helped her decide to abort? She's essentially saying that this is my fault! I even called her and told her that I'd stop the claim with my attorney and give her the money to contact an attorney of her own if she wanted to say we hadn't been together, but at that point she said her mind was made up, etc and she didn't want to talk about it or see how we could be friends.<P>Someone out there help me...am I the only one wondering what planet she's coming from? This is killing me...the only thing I can figure is that she had already decided to have an abortion and was looking for reasons to justify her decision..which means that making me into the bad guy is an easy solution.<P>It just doesn't at all seem fair, though - I go out of my way to be there for her, beyond what could possibly be expected of anyone in this situation, and she makes me the bad guy and now will blame me for this for the rest of our lives, it seems. What hurts most is that the person that I trusted so much and have shown the most of myself to thinks so horribly of me...<P>Any thoughts?<P>

a-conundrum,<P>I don't really how to say this delicately so I won't. Boy are you dumb!! I'm sorry A-C I shouldn't say that. Further, you not dumb, but you are having a hard time believing what is before you right now. It is very painful, but you need to realize that you can do nothing for her.<P>She may have already had the abortion for all you know, but she is transfering her guilt to you. You know that. What don't you get??? She has been acting like a tramp, the problem is she wasn't always a tramp, that is why you married her. Her conscience is bothering her, but she is going to do what she wants anyway.<P>Now you are getting some idea why everyone here said to let her go. It is very obvious that she is a game player and you are not. That is a good thing that you are not, but being mixed up with her is poison big time for you.<P>Proceed with the divorce. Don't communicate with her. You called her to tell about the lawyers visit in the hopes that it would make her happy that you were doing what she wanted. You are not going to make her happy. Why? Because if she ever admitted that she loved you, or that you made her happy, she cannot blame her behavior on you. She would have to take responsibility.<P>A-C, just be greatful the OM is stuck with her. He has no idea what he is getting into. But don't be surprised if you hear from her in a year or two. She will try to use you again. Do yourself a hugh favor never, ever let her back into your life again.<P>Please listen to everyone here. Stay away from her, have your lawyer deal with her.<P>Hang in A-C, your life will get much better and you will find the woman that you deserve.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P><p>[This message has been edited by Just Learning (edited January 18, 2001).]

a_conundrum,<P>Hon your w is playing games with your head. I have a son who is two years younger than you are, so I have been around and seen all kinds of games. <P>She is throwing a hissy fit, fine let her throw it. If she has had or does have an abortion it has <B> NOTHING </B> to do with your actions. Read some of the stories here, it is SOP for the WS to blame the BS for any and everything. They do this so that nothing is their fault. If she mentions that again just tell her *you do whatever you can live with, I just wonder how OM will feel about you after you do it.*<P>Let me tell you something from reading your posts you are a fine young man. Responsible and honest. Do not let her take that from you. You do not deserve to be treated this way.<P>OK, I'm done with the dutch aunt talk now, but rest assured you <B> are </B> doing the right thing.<P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

Conundrum,<P>I have to agree with everyone else -- your W has some serious problems that she needs to deal with on her own. You seem to be a fine young man with a bright future ahead, don't let this game playing monster drag you down.<P>I know how hard it must be to go through this divorce and probably in your heart you were hoping that continuing some limited contact with your W might make her come around and appreciate you.<P>Unfortunately, that is never going to happen. The best thing you can do for yourself now is to let your lawyer do the talking to her. Do not subject yourself to anymore pain and suffering -- she has put you through enough.<P>A simple message informing her that any information will be communicated to her by your lawyer and if she has questions she should contact the lawyer directly -- should suffice.<P>Don't let her get you down. Keep doing things to make yourself happy and keep your spirits high. You will get through this.<P>God bless you<BR>- Heavenly

<BR>a_c:<P>Dude, you have no marriage anymore. This is beyond hope. Continue with your divorce. Save yourself and get away from this woman. Ignore her mind games, she's trying to blame you for her actions.<P>Bystander

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She wouldn't listen though and said that I'd help her make a difficult decision and that she wasn't going to bring a child into that kind of chaos and confusion - that she felt I would try to say the child was mine! I was shocked...what planet is she coming from? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Exactly... what planet is she coming from? She is very messed up and delusional. Maybe even a bit paranoid. I see this woman having serious mental health issues, if not now, definately in a few more years. <P>Go, live a good life and don't regret making the decision to move on. <BR>Take care... Carolyn <BR>

I've been thinking alot the last few days, going through an intense period of self-examination and trying to understand the situation with my STBX.<BR>I want to thank everyone here for their support and understanding, even if I was slow to follow their advice. It's odd how being in the middle of a situation can make cloud the heart and the mind to the point that when you finally do see the best course of action, your heart is slow to follow.<P>I fought, struggled, and suffered for two years to be a good husband and, at the very least, an understanding friend capable of unconditional love. I endured situations that no one should ever be expected to even consider and, were certainly not the situations that any loving spouse would put the other in. Throughout it all, I made the common mistakes, learned the hard lessons, punished myself alot and took the blame.<P>Now, things are different - more different than they have ever been in the past. While I still take 100% of the responsibility for what has happened in my marriage, I take responsibility for my actions, my part in things, but in a very different perspective.<P>I don't hold the past against her or myself, to do so would be to still be holding onto her, which I am not. Nor to I still love her in the way that I did - she is not some incredible being better than myself - I'll never love anyone like that again, which is for the best. I realize that many of the mistakes I made were being too permissive and passive when she lied and cheated, so its not a surprise that she repeated those actions. During those brief periods of reconciliation, I put too low of a price on my heart and my trust.<P>I wish my ex-wife the best, I really do hope she finds what makes her happy, but I cannot ber part of her continued drama and can not allow myself to be brought down because she refuses to see her part in her own misery and would rather blame me. At one point, I felt that she was worth fighting for - but now I realize that I was compromising the things that I valued in a relationship just to have her in some way, even when "being" with her meant that I was incredibly unhappy. Now, I don't need her and am working on not wanting her either. Well entrenched ways of thought are hard to retrain. But I do know this - she is not capable of the love that I want and deserve nor does she have the characteristics that I desire in someone with whom I am intimately involved. In short, she's not worth the struggle, the hassle, the unhappiness. At this point, I just want her out of my life - not with any negative feelings, just to move on and accept responsibility for my own happiness. I feel incredibly light and happy, centered again for the first time in years and as if my life is following the track that it was supposed to before I took a detour that made me forget who I am and what I wanted from this life.<P>Life's our oyster, it's just sometimes hard to forget the pearl inside the oyster when all you see is the shell. I kept thinking that the pearl I wanted was my ex, that she was worth cracking through the shell, but she's just a grain of sand. Somewhere, out there, a person for me, but for now, I've learned some damn valuable lessons from the search. I know many mistakes that I'll never repeat and what things I will and will not allow in a relationship. Admittedly, the next relationship will not be happening for a long while, but there are worse things than savoring life alone for the time being.<P>Thanks again everyone for the help - sorry if that was not as coherent as I meant for it to be; I've had a distracting day, but I just wanted everyone to know that I'm all right - hell, much better than all right <P>Take care and best of luck to everyone in your journey through life. I hope you each find what you're looking for - or, if not that, realize what you really want so that you can avoid getting anything less.<BR>

ac,<BR>You sound like you just posted your last reply, but if not let me say this - you are wise beyond you years! Looking back at my early twenties I was no where near the maturity you show, of course I wasn't married and soon to be divorced either. Hardship and pain make you wise up don't they?! Anyway, you sound like you are doing great and be sure and thank God for easing you into this conclusion to your marriage. Just think of how hard it was to call it quits, but what if she had of dropped all of this on you at once? Be thankful and take care.<BR>Floored

A-C,<P>The best of luck. I know it is still hard to believe that out of this carnage a better more satisfying life is about to rise. It will and make sure that you enjoy it. For there is plenty to enjoy. It seems to me from what little you have said that your major mistake was loving someone who didn't love you.<P>You can never give too much to a marriage but it needs to be done with someone that loves you and in a manner that they receive that love. Keep reading around this site, you will learn a few things more.<P>Meanwhile, don't be surprised if you still are on the emotional rollercoaster with this. You do/did love this woman no matter what she has done, so it there will be relapses, but hang in there. "The best of life is left to see..."<P>God Bless,<P>JL