Everyone I found a really helpful book I found it at the library. It is called women who love too much. Robin Norwood If anyone has read this book and knows of more information like this could you please let me know. It looks like for me I am finding some answers to my life. with love flowerseed

Flowerseed,I haven't read it. I'll check it out at the book store though. <P>Is it women like us?<P> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gem, In my case as far as me being married 3 times and finding myself in the same situations it is. It has a lot to do with changeing yourself and getting through that you cant change other people only yourself. It has a lot to say about diffrent sititutions as to the affects of your childhood and how you try to recreate it all through your adult life. It has made a lot of sense to me. I just got the book friday I am almost done with it. My dad always said I was always tryig to fix stray mutts . with love flowerseed <p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited January 07, 2001).]

Gem, I can give you an example today of what I am doing after reading this book. H buddy showed up again this morn 10 min after H gets up. I just got up said I dont get up in the morning with him to be his alarm cloock and maid and went out to my flower shop. Guess who came looking for me after a bit. It was easy for me to stand my ground on things that upset me when I was so angry about the cheating and oc but now I find myself slipping right back to that good old door matt. I cant believe how something so simple as standing up for my needs can make me all shakey inside. I am sure in time it shall get easier. with love flowerseed

Flowerseed,<BR>I'm the same way. I read where when growing up if your voice was silenced (as mine was) you learn to "put up" with too much. Fear of rocking the boat.<P>I'm learning not to do that. It's so hard.<P> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Hi, <BR>someone recommended this book to me, and after trying to look for it to buy on ebay I realized I already had it, in a lot of books I had bought. I did not really come from a disfunctional family but, the book described me to a T, they way I react to my husband. and to try to manage him, and halp, nurture... I think it is a great book, and I am going to try real hard to stick with what it says about changing yourself... maybe we can all encourage each other on this<BR>Teresa

Oh, that's me, that's me!<P>But, sometimes I think it is not so much that I "love" too much, it is just that I am so insecure I put up with too much because I don't have a well defined sense of self.<P>Besides, sometimes we get a lot out of being a martyr. It is a disgusting way to be and I am glad you're reading the book. very insightful...helps you recognize the 'traps' and adjust your response to 'stimuli'.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>No longer wearing sackcloth and ashes

Me too! Me too! I think. Maybe. Indecision may or may not be my problem [Jimmy Buffett]<P>My friends have started calling me co-dependent because I have tolerated so much from H. Leaking out bits of the affair, little bits at a time, extending the pain. Also because he has gone back on agreements about what is and isn't acceptable contact between H and OW.<P>I asked our marriage counselor and he didn't see signs of that problem in me. He diagnosed H with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and I asked if I had Doormat Personality Disorder. He thought I had a strong sense of self and that I was extraordinarily patient. He said that many women would have walked long before this, but that he didn't see anything disfunctional in my staying. I stay out of a belief that my H can once again be the man he was.<P>I hate when people judge me, label me or think that they can solve my problems for me. I have told most of them if they are going to judge me that I will look other places for support. If they can listen well and offer empathy and a couple of suggestions or a different point of view, that is good but I don't want them trying to take over my life for me and decide if and when I should leave my marriage.<P>I think a woman loses a lot of social status when her H cheats on her and I think that those of us who stay lose even more. Every woman tells herself "If he ever cheats on me, I would kick him out the door." That's easy to say if you aren't in that position. Hey, it's what I used to say until face to face with the reality of his affair and child.<P>Just my ramble for the day.<P>Mrs. Job<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mrs. Job:<BR><B><BR>I think a woman loses a lot of social status when her H cheats on her and I think that those of us who stay lose even more. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I think the ultimate source of my humiliation is just this...somehow I have been diminished by their actions and it effects me deeply.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

Well.....others may think that I have been diminished by what my H and OW have done. I refuse to believe that. I think that what he did says everything about how he was feeling at the time and very little to say about me. (I know that that doesn't jibe with many points of Marriage Builders, but it is my true feelings about this.<P>Contrary to what others may think of me, I believe that my staying in this marriage proves that I am a stronger woman than they think I am or than I ever even thought I could be. I don't think I am working from a position of weakness here, but that it takes great strength, courage and Grace to even attempt to do what we are trying to do. The easiest thing is to run. I do not mean that to include anyone here on this board. We have all taken good hard looks at ourselves, our spouses, situations, children, etc. Those who have moved towards divorce have done so after a lot of soul-searching and nearly endless attempts to rebuild a marriage. Some of us have been blessed by spouses who want to keep the marriage and are willing to do his or her part; others have been given spouses who want to stay in the marriage but are unable to make the changes necessary and some of us have been given absolutely no choice in the matter as our spouse left us for the OP and left us no choice in the matter. So...if you are in the divorce stage, please don't be upset by what I have written. I do not include anyone here in that "took the easy way out, divorced his a** in a hurry" group.<P>Mrs Job

Mrs. Job and Catnip, <P>I happen to think that anyone can walk away from the marriage when an affair happens, and that it takes a strong person to stay and try to fix things. I don't go telling people of the affair, because it is in the past, etc. But those of my friends that do know, most admire us and our marriage for surviving. I do have one friend though who always says she couldn't stay, etc, and I feel like she is throwing little stones at me. But I wouldn't trade places with her for her life either. To each his own I guess.<P>Point is, we stay for personal reasons. Hopefully we know when to throw in the towel though if that time ever comes. <P>Another reason I prefer not to share things about the affair etc with my friends, is that then you get all this unsolicited advice. It is the same reason I don't tell my family, about any of our little problems. Once you forgive them, work past the problems, etc, it is over, you love them. But your family/friends NEVER forget. So, I keep things to myself, and come here. <P>happy_girl<P>

Catnip,<P>It occurs to me that I sort of just blew off your feelings. I didn't mean to do that and I am sorry.<P>For a couple of months after Dday, I felt the same way. I felt less, like I was worth less, because my H had an affair. At one point, I decided that this was not about me, not really. It had to do with a lack of self-esteem on his part. Since I didn't do anything to knock apart his self-esteem, I no longer accept responsibility for his affair. Yes, I am in part responsible for some of the problems that existed and exist in our marriage and I am willing to work to fix them, but he is the one who made the choice to have an affair. Besides, I think that in the middle of an affair is way to late to complain that your needs weren't being met. Way, way, way too late.<P>Mrs. Job

Hey flowersex,<P> From whom do we learn how to be a parent and a spouse? Our parents, right? Some of us were lucky to have good teachers. Some of us weren't.<BR> <BR> I think the reason we pick mates that are as disfunctional as our families is simple. We know the rules! It may be painful, but we know how we fit in.<P> I have no clue what it is like to be raised in a tollerant, loving, non-judgemental, nurturing family. I have read about it, I have tried to imagine it, I have tried to implement it in my family. <P> I'm rambling, and I've forgotten what the hell my point was. I just know I am constantly scrutinizng and re-examining my role as a parent and a husband, because I have a lot to catch up on!!<P><BR> God bless you, <P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Another very good book is "Getting the Love You Want: A Guide for Couples" by Harville Hendrix. It touched on the initial same principles of who you are as a person and why you get into the relationships that you have. It is a real eye-opener also.<P>Carolyn