Glad this thread is back as I was enjoying the back and forth.

I had a thought last night after reading that there's a distinct possibility that Russia had sold some interesting items to Iraq.

Is it possible that the UN members so adamant about vetoing any action against Iraq's regime might have been a little scared because they knew of arms sales to Iraq and how embarrassing it might be if that were discovered?

Crayongirl,

Uh, in short…. YES!!! I think you figured it out.

The US gov and the press has had info for quite some time that France, Germany, Russia and the Ukraine have been supplying Iraq. In some cases it was sent through China and North Korea.

The first day we went into Iraq, the French came out and said some thing like “Uh, gee don’t be too surprised if you find some illegal things we’ve supplied to Iraq.” It was odd because that report seems to have disappeared.. do not recall which services I saw it on.

Do note that those are amongst the loudest protestors to a coalition going into Iraq.

I have a hunch about why the USA has finally has come out so definitely about this. If you will recall we are now mostly in control of the Iraqi ports. We also captured the Ba’ath party headquarters. I recall that US forces flew at least one helicopter full of Iraqi paperwork out of there. Now what sort of papers do you suppose were maintained at a port? Shipping documents? Contract? Proof of financial exchanges?

My bet is that was a major haul of intelligence.

I think we are about to find out exactly what type of friends those countries really are.

Zorweb,

Good, then it isn't just my imagination! LOL! Odd, I'm sitting watching the news and reading my beloved blogs and gee...didn't Saddam say he had no chemical weapons? But, by some miracle, his troops are planning to use the non-existant chemical weapons once we are in B'dad!

I read an article earlier today (from a French newspaper) that the ricin (sp?) found on Le Metro (I think) has been traced to possible Al Quaeda members who may have trained in Iraq. Go figure.

I know you were so shocked to find all this out.

Here's an article you might find intersting about the French.

Just want everyone to know I'm still reading, but I've just added a major project to my To Do list so that I have less time to discuss this in depth.

I hope that everyone who was part of the original discussion will come back to this thread, and we can express our feelings as we watch the war unfold.

I think it will be interesting to see reaction as we make new discoveries or as things happen.

Particularly, Aeri's POV, and those who agree with her, interests me and there is a reason why. First, what if what I believe is wrong? (I will be furious, but...). Second, my Dad who is a Rush Limbaugh listener always tells me this lopsided stuff, and I've heard differing reports on the news, only to hear that my Daddy was right...and I doubted him, thinking that if Satan were to run for Pres as a republican, my Dad would vote for him. Now I'm not so sure. I think my Dad is well-informed (did I fall into that adult child trap of believing I'm smarter than my parents? Ugh. I hope not).

Do I think that Aeri will be convinced as the war goes on? Don't know. Do I want Aeri to be convinced? Only if it turns out to be true what the US citizens are saying. I don't want anyone, including myself, to believe lies.

"...the truth shall set you free."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Good, then it isn't just my imagination! LOL! Odd, I'm sitting watching the news and reading my beloved blogs and gee...didn't Saddam say he had no chemical weapons? But, by some miracle, his troops are planning to use the non-existant chemical weapons once we are in B'dad! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You mean these old things, he just happended to find them tucked away in the closet collecting dust (insert sarcasm).

<small>[ March 25, 2003, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zorweb:
<strong>I know you were so shocked to find all this out.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the link! I've been watching/reading French views on all of this and...well, sometimes what they are saying and what their media is reporting leaves me speechless. Bias in the media in the US? We certainly don't have the corner in that market!

Need to clarify one of my previous posts. The ricin was found in a locker in a Paris railway station, not Le Metro.

For another intersting site - try muslimpundit.com

As well, I found this from Blix's report that wasn't widely (ever?) pulicized:

UPI

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"UNMOVIC has credible information that the total quantity of BW (biological
weapons) agent in bombs, warheads and in bulk at the time of the Gulf War was
7,000 liters more than declared by Iraq. This additional agent was most likely
all anthrax. ... Iraq's claim that anthrax production ceased at the end of
1990 does not seem plausible. ... seems highly probable that the destruction
of bulk agent, including anthrax (at the Al Hakam site) did not occur. Based
on all the available evidence, the strong presumption is that about 10,000
liters of anthrax was not destroyed and may still exist."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Things that make you go hmmmm...

Wanted to passs on this letter in case you haven't seen it yet.
But first, another comment though.

I don't watch much tv, but early on in the war when the first casualties were announced, there was a black man who lost his son. He was screaming at President Bush and said he hoped he was satisfied, as this was his only son. The reporters were just eating it up.

First, thus far, All of our troops have been VOLUNTARY. They signed up, nobody dragged them. This is what they VOLUNTEERED to do. They are totally AWARE of the risks. Second, although it is a tragedy for that particular family to lose their son, that father DISHONORED his son on public tv. I was so ashamed of his behavior, for both him and the son, who died for this country, offering up the maximum that he had.

anyway, here is the letter from one of our soldiers.

**************************
Hi All,
> This is an e-mail from Heidi Stephens, she's my friend Spencer's
>little Sister. Mom, Tara, and Aaron, you know her from the wedding in
>Spain. She is in the Army and has been in Turkey for some time now. She
>got married at the end of December and was married for all of 2 weeks
>before getting re-activated in the army (she had server her 4 years and was
>going on inactive duty) and deployed to Turkey. Her new Husband Gary was
>sent to Iraq. Gary is in camp Pennsylvania, you may have heard of that
>lately, it's the one that the idiot grenaded his CO's in. He and Heidi
>were on the phone to each other when that happened. Anyway, here is an
>e-mail that she wrote to some family and friends and asked to forward on.
> It's a window into the life of one of the hundreds of thousands of our
>troops over there. I can't help but to watch CNN all of the time now, I
>have 5 friends in this and I hope that I never see one of them on CNN
>unless it's on a flight home.
>
>Fly your flags proud!
**********
GOD BLESS THE USA
>
> Family and Friends here are some of my thoughts...
> I, being a soldier and "serving" in this war with my husband ever more
>serving in this war, I ask that you do pass this along. Please pray for
>the soldiers, the POWs, and their friends and families.
> Being over here and so close to what is really happening has put things
>into perspective for me. I am living in substandard living conditions. I
>have taken a shower 6 times in the last month. As I spend the 3rd month of
>my marriage to my wonderful husband one country separating us I ask of you
>to keep praying. If you know a soldier pray for him or her by name asking
>that God bless them with peace and that they are doing well. Everyone here
>is on edge and all our nerves are exposed. So please pray that we can be
>so blessed and we just drive on and share God's love and peace.
> I sit here and watch TV and see all these protests and Hollywood
>Producers and movie stars and teens and many others fighting against us. I
>know that they believe what they are doing is in favor of us soldiers but
>as we sit here in harms way FARTHER away from our lives and families than
>any of the could ever imagine we are growing more and more angry with these
>protesters.
> The right that they have to protest is defended by servicemembers giving
>up their rights, freedom, and unfortunately their lives. However they are
>"giving up" their lives. Nobody I know likes war. Not one of us over
>here. However, we choose by raising our right hand to defend our country.
>Right now we are defending the world and for some reason nobody knows this.
> I heard on CNN that the guy who one the award the other night said (I
>paraphrase) That president Bush is sending "us" to fight this war.
>However, this guy who is sitting on his academy award and millions of
>dollars has NOTHING to do with this war. He has no idea what it is like to
>get married and then within weeks be ripped apart from his spouse who is
>closer to battle than you wnat to think about and you are closer to battle
>than he wants to imagine. He has no idea what it is like to not have a hot
>meal in over 30 days. He has no idea what it is like to live in a
>warehouse with no heat, lights amongst th
> e rats, birds and fungus growing on the walls. No he goes home to the
>comfort of his home every night. Us soldiers we knew what we were getting
>into. We don't need some millionaires or teenagers to try to get us out of
>this. WE decided to defend our country. We didn't ask for your help to
>get us out of this. WE don't need your help. WE are fully ready for
>anything that comes our way. We can carry more weight on our backs,
>freezing (or sweating) in the rain or sand. WE can move out and drive on
>working 7 days a week getting 4-5 hours of sleep and we can do this for the
>very rights all the protesters take for granted. I sit here in the combat
>zone, i sit here ready to defend and take offensive stance. To defend all
>the world from Terror. Remember September 11th. That is what we are
>fighting against. The ones who don't know better claim we are here for
>OIL. Get smart. Think about us, who are ready and willing to give up our
>lives. Service members don't lose their
> lives, we give them up for the rest of you americans who aren't
>supporting us but are protesting against us. We see you! WE see you all
>the way over here on CNN, just like you see us on CNN. I ask that you stop
>protesting and start supporting us. Don't protest this war. Support the
>troops. WE are not in here to kill innocent people, we are here to fight
>for what is right. If we can remember back to Sept 10th. There was no
>conflict, that is our goal. WE dont want our countrymen running out and
>getting tarps and bottled water so that they can survive if America is
>attacked, we need to eliminate the terrorists! WE are doing this for you!
>Our President knows what he is doing. He also is a Christian and seeks the
>Lord for advice. Millions of people pray for him daily. I suggest instead
>of protesting, lets pray for our leaders, our troops and their family
>members.
> One more point. Peace doesn't mean that there is no war. Peace is when
>we are not afraid to go to the shopping center. Peace is when there is no
>terror. For us to have Peace we MUST ELIMINATE the terrorists! So keep
>raising your fingers in peace, because that is what we are going to
>accomplish. People will die in this fight for peace, that is the way it
>works. However, we are defending the peace you long for! So Please allow
>us to work for peace and stop protesting. It really is a hard pill to
>swallow to see so many of you against this war.
> In Gods Love I write this from one Combat Zone thousands of miles away
>from my husband in another combat zone. TAke the time to pray. Pray for
>us, our leaders, our country, our world, and for peace!
> God Bless all of you. Please pass this on so others know how a soldier
>feels.
>
> Heidi Stephens
> Captain, US ARMY

Wow adrift,

That was terrific. Thank you for posting that.

Here is another one:
*************************
Subject: Letter from a soldier in Kuwait

VERY TOUCHING LETTER....
I am personally so touched by this article; as a mother, and as an American citizen. Be it as it may, just as this young soldier is entitled to express his strong patriotism and conviction, for me, those who protest the war have the same freedom to express their sentiments as so long as the exchange of opinions is conducted in a civil way.

====================================================================

Subject: Letter from soldier in Kuwait

A California mother whose son is right now in Kuwait poised to knock Saddam's block off, wrote her son asking how he would feel if she joined
other relatives of service members in an anti-war demonstration in Hollywood last month.

After reading her son's response, she elected not to participate.
*************************************************************************

Dear Mom:

It's really your decision to march if you want to or not. You are the one who has to decide if what we are doing out here is right or not. My opinion is not yours. I do, however, have things I would like for you and Grandma and everyone else at home to know.

I am a United States soldier. I was sworn to defend my country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. People may not agree with the things we are ordered to do. I would like to address those people by telling them that
terrorism is not only a threat to us as Americans, but to many other innocent people in the world.

What type of country would we be if we didn't defend the rights and freedoms of others, not because they're Americans, but how about just
because they're human? We live in a country where people feel secure with their daily lives. They do business like usual and don't worry about the
thought of terrorism actually happening to them. The people of 9-11 thought the same thing. We now know that it can happen to anyone at any
time. Yet as Americans we're afraid of losing our soldiers to defend our security.

I can only speak for myself when I say that my life is an easy expense to ensure that my family and friends can live in peace. I strongly believe
in what we are doing and wish you were here to see for yourselves the honor and privilege that American soldiers aboard this ship are feeling,
knowing that we are going to be a part of something so strong and so meaningful to the safety of our loved ones. Then you would know what
this potential war is about.

We will stand tall in front of terrorism and defeat it. We as soldiers are not afraid of what may happen. We are only afraid of Americans not
being able to understand why we are here. I ask for your courage as Americans to be strong for us; I ask for your understanding in what
we believe is right. I ask for your support in what we are sworn to do: defend our country and the life of all.

We will succeed in our task and will end the threat of terrorism in our back yard. We will also end the threat of terrorism in our neighbors'. We have to remind ourselves of what this country stands for: life, liberty
and justice for all. In order to maintain those rights we have to stop the threat of terrorism.

I am proud to be here. I will be coming home, but not until I know that it's going to be safe for all Americans and for everyone I love. My
family is first. My country is where they live. I will defend it.

Lonnie J. Lewis
Navy corpsman
C Co. 1/4 WPN PLT
UIC 39726
FPO AP 966139726

P.S. Mom, please send this to everyone who has a hard time understanding why we are here. Ask the paper to put what I've said in a column so that
others will know why we are here and what we are here for.

I love you all and will be home soon. I left my address so that if anyone feels like writing to let me know how they feel, they can.

Powell Quote

When in England at a fairly large conference,

Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury

if our plans for Iraq were just an example of

empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying that, "Over the years, the

United States has sent many of its fine young men

and women into great peril to fight for freedom

beyond our borders. The only amount of land we

have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those

that did not return."

It became very quiet in the room.

Adrift,

I thought about that letter all night. Wow!

I think I'll send it to my dad.

Thank you for keeping this thread alive.

Others,

I wanted to share this site.

http://www.billoreilly.com/index.jsp

and this one

http://aolsvc.intellivu.aol.com/mainb.asp?fnum=298

Interesting POV.

Petals

I went to the site and read it. Good article.

I found it interesting as in yesterday’s Pentagon briefing Tori Clark showed a few clips of Iraqi citizens either tortured or killed (gassed) by Saddam. Apparently much of the worldwide press cut away from the clips. Their reasoning? It was irrelevant and they felt used by the Pentagon in an attempt to spread anti-Saddam propaganda. Yet how many of these very same news agencies are showing daily the propaganda from Saddam’s regime of civilians supposedly killed by the US bombardments? In two markets where it is more likely that the ordinance that hit those markets for from Iraqi anit-gun aircraft missiles then from anything the coalition is dropping… the damage is too small to have been caused by what the USA is dropping. They are also not showing the many, many civilians (read human shields) being killed by the pro-Saddam fighters.

So who is using the media? Let’s see, it’s ok for Saddam to do so. But oh so terrible when the USA tries to remind the world of Saddam’s atrocities.

Opposing viewpoints:

One of my family members, a democrat, thinks that we should make Iraq one of our states. Ha! Is that not funny?

Another family member, a republican, thinks US military should drop leaflets on Baghdad saying that the city will be levelled and the citizens should leave. Hmm...I don't think so. First, the Iraqi military has been snatching up the leaflets we have dropped. Second, even if the civilians were to read the leaflets, what's to say the military would let them leave the city?

Just thought I'd pass along some more thoughts.

Petals

I had a few moments to read through this thread today and I decided to add a few more viewpoints of mine...in no particular order:

I feel intense pity for the members of the U.S. Military--they have been bamboozelled by media, government and their own families into believing that what they are doing is just.

Contrary to popular notion on this thread--I am NOT anti-American. American people are the most patriotic in the world and that, coupled with a honest government is a great thing. I do disagree with *blind* patriotism, however. I believe that nothing should be trusted or believed in "just because". This is what is so frustrating about most of the Western world---we're a media driven society--we depend on news agencies whose purposes are to make headlines, to tell us what we should believe in. We forget that most media outlets have about as much interest in the *truth* of these matters than the National Enquirer. Just as the 'rags', CNN must sell airtime as well and ratings are made with sensational stories...

How many Americans and Canadians are actively researching this war over and above the newspaper and CNN accounts of what is happening? I've been called paranoid in my views---if paranoia means that I read *everything* on the subject and compare viewpoints, then call me paranoid. I seek the truth.

We've been hearing a lot about embedded reporters. Has anyone actually considered *why* the military would allow reporters among them? It seems absolutely frivolous to me---if not stupid, to have untrained civilians among the soldiers, getting underfoot, leaking important information and generally being a security risk, so why does the U.S. government allow this? To me, the answer is simple---How would YOU control the media if you were launching a war that most of the world objected to? My first idea would be to convince media outlets to have journalists "embedded" into the military---WHY? Because media outlets will jump on the opportunity to be on the front lines. The moment the prospect of higher ratings enters the picture, those media outlets will be more than happy to sign any contracts that *LIMITS* their ability to broadcast potentially damning footage which may change the popular opinion of the war back home in the US.

I chuckled recently while watching CNN--a school was raided and inside it was reported that the US soldiers had found grenades and weapons. Interestingly enough, it was reported that most were made in ....accck.....*FRANCE*.....imagine that! Too bad they did find a stockpile of the weapons that the United STates supplied to them in 1979 at the head of the Iran/Iraq war...

I think it might be interesting for all those Americans who believe that this war is about the freedom of the Iraqi people to comment on the following:

Supposing you were living happily, with your family and friends in a country that was your home for centuries, muddling through your daily life, putting up with crappy government and elections. Elections where you said to yourself "I'll just vote republican, I don't like anyone else on the ballot"...feeling as if you really *didn't* have a choice....and all of a sudden, some nation decides to invade the United States in order to "free" you....would you *NOT* try to protect what you own, your family and your neighbours? Would it matter that your government stinks? Would you not seek to protect yourself and all that you've worked for? How important would the future be to you? How many of you can honestly say, you'd submit to the invading forces and just say "OH, we're so glad you're here to save us with your guns, bunker busters and cruise missles---I was really getting sick of voting Rebuplican". My guess is that not many people will see it that way---when it comes to life---no one is patriotic enough to say---kill my children, my neighbours and bomb my home, if it means you're ousting the government..... This, I believe, is the primary reason why the Iraqi people continue to fight for their nation---it's not about government---people are people the world over and it's all about surviving. As long as the United States government can convince you that somehow blowing up an entire country to "free" them is just, you'll continue to vote and support George W. Bush and he'll just become more powerful. Remember everyone, that 'good old boy' from the south that you elected isn't a 'good old boy' anyways---he's the rich, pampered son of a former President...someone who hasn't truly faught for anything in his life...What the hell does he know about the suffering of the Iraqi people?

Last, but not least---in my travels on the web this morning, I found an interesting article about the Gulf War in 1991.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> July 25, 1990 - Presidential Palace - Baghdad

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threat s against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?

Saddam Hussein - As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - What solutions would be acceptab le?

Saddam Hussein - If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America. (Saddam smiles)

On August 2, 1990 four days later, Saddam's massed troops invade and occupy Kuwait. _____

Baghdad, September 2, 1990, U.S. Embassy

One month later, British journalists obtain the the above tape and transcript of the Saddam - Glaspie meeting of July 29, 1990. Astoun ded, they confront Ms. Glaspie as she leaves the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad.

Journalist 1 - Are the transcripts (holding them up) correct, Madam Ambassador?(Ambassador Glaspie does not respond)

Journalist 2 - You knew Saddam was going to invade (Kuwait ) but you didn't warn him not to. You didn't tell him America would defend Kuwait. You told him the opposite - that America was not associated with Kuwait.

Journalist 1 - You encouraged this aggression - his invasi on. What were you thinking?

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie - Obviously, I didn't think, and nobody else did, that the Iraqis were going to take all of Kuwait.


Journalist 1 - You thought he was just going to take some of it? But, how could you? Saddam told you that, if negotiations failed , he would give up his Iran (Shatt al Arab waterway) goal for the Whole of Iraq, in the shape we wish it to be. You know that includes Kuwait, which the Iraqis have always viewed as an historic part of their country!

Journalist 1 - America green-lighted the invasion. At a minimum, you admit signaling Saddam that some aggression was okay - that the U.S. would not oppose a grab of the al-Rumeilah oil field, the disputed border strip and the Gulf Islands (including Bubiyan) - the territories claimed by Iraq?

(Ambassador Glaspie says nothing as a limousine door closed behind her and the car drives off.)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wake up everyone--that was your government talking--what caused the U.S. to not take diplomatic action to end the standoff between Kuwait and Iraq when they were made aware? Why did they not voice their intention to protect Kuwait? I think the quote speaks for itself.

Perhaps someone would like to enlighten me as to why back only 13 years ago, your Ambassador was diplomatically discussing plans to improve relations with Iraq...Hussein was President then, as he is now ----were the people *MORE* free then?

I think you should ask yourselves---if your government had an ulterior motive for attacking Iraq in 1991, how can you be sure that they don't have one now? How can you justify THIS war, knowing that it's based on what wasn't *resolved* in the previous war? Does the average American feel that questioning this is unpatriotic? Has the government brainwashed you to that point?

I await my flamings.

<small>[ April 07, 2003, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: aeri ]</small>

An interesting article from Great Britain:

http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,882517,00.html

Interesting article Aeri.

From what it says, it seems that the countries who oppose going into Iraq do so to protect their own oil interests. Some of them want to protect their cheap, preferred contracts with Iraq for oil. Others, like Russia, want to prevent Iraq from producing more oil and therefore bringing down oil prices.

Perhaps when pointing fingers at countries for protecting their own interests, its’ wise to look at how each country is doing thins. The USA is NOT the only country needing to look out for itself.

As for the USA fighting this war to grab Iraqi oil, this last week the USA went to the UN to request that they restart the oil-for-food program. It’s a good thing that the Coalition preserved the oil wells. It will lessen the suffering of the Iraqi people. And hopefully soon they will finally be getting the benefit of their great wealth.

Too back some countries want to keep Iraq in it’s current state, with sections that keep their oil prices and production down for their own purposes. Too bad these countries feel it’s ok to let the Iraqi people suffer as they have so that they can benefit.

As for the weapons found in Iraq this last week, do recall that the weapons from the USA predate the sanctions. The French weapons were sold AFTER the sanctions and therefore violate UN sections. But I am sure you do not want to pay any heed to that, as it does not support your view of the USA and the greatest evil.

If you look at every action of every other country in the world and good, and all actions of the USA as evil… then you are very anti-USA. I have yet to hear you say one good thing about the USA.. you only show contempt and dislike for us.

Our soldiers do not need your misguided pity.

But then again you are the ONLY, the one and only, person in this entire world who reads the news and keeps up with current events.

<small>[ April 08, 2003, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: zorweb ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Zuzus_Petals:
<strong>("And now for something completely different" from my other thread...)

Perhaps the more accurate title would be "I'm proud to be a US citizen." But I like the song by Lee Greenwood, so...

I've got something to say. This is the only site I know where I might air some of my opinions (though I will try to keep the most controversial ones to myself).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
War or no war, I am proud to be a citizen of this great, beautiful and God blessed country. Democrats or no democrats, I am proud of my homeland. (JK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I am proud of the fact that we have freedom of speech, that many use to disagree with the current administration. I hope they revel in it because Iraqis cannot at this time.

Do I think there were better ways to overthrow Saddam Hussein's regime? There are other ways, but how effective would they be? I don't think they'd be effective at all, because the turnover would be slow and create civil unrest, IMO. Kind of like taking out a drug lord. The underlords scramble and kill each other, vying for power. Uh-huh. I could see that if the US sanctioned snipers to take out individual officials.

Is this a unilateral US maneuver, wanting to establish some sort of American power over the rest of the world? Huh? Let me just say that I don't know but I hope not.

I hope our troops are truly there to take Iraq away from Satan...er Saddam and his cohorts, and give it back to the Iraqi people, who will give out freedom to all, including (and especially) women.

If they are there for other reasons besides undermining those who would come to our country and deface it and destroy so many innocent lives that no war could equal the loss, then I will join those protesting the US government's actions.

Until I hear of this being a case of "blood for oil", I will join my Iraqi-American brothers and sisters who cry "Down with Saddam Hussein!"

Sincerely,

Zuzus_Petals</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Here's my $.02 worth here.
I was there in Operation Desert Shield and Operation Desert Storm I. I was with the Infantry and Artillery in a Command Vehicle - I was the driver. I'll never forget the first night we hit the Republican Guard - took over 300 EPWs (Enemy Prisoner of War) and destroyed 128 of their famed Russian Tanks.
99 hours it was all over - we were ready to roll into Baghdad on Day 3 of the War - and they told us, "No, you go into Kuwait." So we did.
To me, this war - Operation Desert Storm II is UNFINISHED BUSINESS. I do not like war. I think it hurts so many people, but it's sometimes a necessary evil when there are those (like Saddam, Hitler, etc.) who will NOT listen to the Voice of Reason.
I am not bragging or asking any sympathy here - just wanted to add a few comments to this.
RIGHT NOW - my son is in Iraq - near Al Nasaryah with the 2nd Marine Expeditionary Unit. I pray for him and every soldier in the Coalition forces over there.
I hope they don't get gassed like my unit did. Every single one of us came back sick - real sick. I was thrown out of the Army on Medical Disability. Can't get a job anywhere, so I live on Gov't Pension.
I am not bitter, but I say this: if I had to do it all over again I would. I am proud of my Military Service in the US Army and very proud to be an American.
God bless America and every single person in the Coalition Forces over there. May a speedy victory be ours, to end this suffering and misery and to help the Iraqi people rebuild their lives and nation.
Harold T - (SGT, US Army, Retired)