You come here on the premise of being a child advocate. Who elected you as such? I certainly didn't. My son was born of a regrettable affair. I can fight for him and for myself, should the need arise. I don't agree with your methods. You are coming across as abrassive, combative and thoughtless. This has not, nor has it ever been the forum to debate the needs of the child. I learned that and you need to as well. If there is ever to be a chance for the child to be considered and accepted, the BS MUST first be able to grieve and come to terms with what has occurred. They need to find their OWN way. Your way is not necessarily there's, and it doesn't have to be. Considering what a lot of these ladies have been through, they don't deserve any chastising from you, or anyone else for that matter. Your pompous, arrogant posts have only served to anger, enrage, and hurt the folks here. Why? What is your purpose? You're certainly not serving the needs of the OC. Besides, that's not for you to do. Leave that to the parent(s). Afterall, isn't that THEIR responsibility? I know it's mine. I knew what I was up against when I chose to have my son, and I don't shy away from it. I don't need someone who is going to intentionally and maliciously trod on another's pain to defend my child. I don't want my child learning such atrocious behaviour. He will learn that the end does NOT justify the means. Didn't YOUR mother teach you that? It's pretty simple: respect, courtesy, and manners.<P>[This message has been edited by ohbratti1 (edited April 17, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by ohbratti1 (edited April 17, 2001).]

number one....I work with children who have been treated shably and have been quite often abandoned by parents that don't take responsibility for THEIR actions. I see the damage relationships like these do first hand. I may not be an advocate for YOUR child, but I guarantee you that your child deserves one who puts HER/HIS needs first and doesn't neglect that out of guilt. <P>

How does your desire to defend these needy children excuse your behavior here? I re-state: the end does not justify the means. You cannot obligate these folks to embrace your opinions and beliefs anymore than they can expect you to accept the way they are coping with an extremely difficult situation. To have that expectation is both unreasonable and unrealistic. They do not need validation from you. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but be responsible about how you voice it. Purposely causing pain and anquish to further your "cause" is mean-spirited and serves no one.<p>[This message has been edited by ohbratti1 (edited April 17, 2001).]

I have not been mean spirited, only challenged these woment oto think about the children and not just themselves. Everything I have said here, even the really nice things have been taken wrong and I have been insulted and judged. I think it is the women here who need to think about how they judge and mistreat people.

Dear Lurking Whatever,<P><BR> Then why do you keep coming back?<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

you tell her gregg!! nice post ohbratti.

Nice try Obratti!<P>Lurker, you're taking your nice-sounding principle, and ramroding it down the wives' throats without any consideration for their pain, their families' pain, and the individual circumstances they are each in, INCLUDING MINE! <BR>You are causing pain. If you get off on causing pain, find someone else to play with and for God's sake don't do it in the name of children!

If we stop responding do you think she will go away so we can get back to our real purpose here. Marriage Builders, that is the name of this forum, Lurking a#s go find a forum that you can help needy children. The oc here for the most part are not needy, remember they get cs. My children are more needy than a lot of the oc here. We were two days away from forclosure procedures last month. And just an added note to how thoughtless ow can be my h got a court order to have his cs stopped for three months because he had spinal surgery and was not able to do any physical labor, well the ow wanted to stop his visitation until he started paying again. The judge did tell her no way, but who is a gold digger and who is not really thinking of the child. Again I say go away and if you won't we should all ljust ignore you until you do, this will be my last post on this issue, I hope. Gabi1116 Ohbratti nice try and well said, but I think our only defense is to ignore until she and others like her just get bored because we are all not talking back and they will hopefully go away.

Like I said I understand your fights with the OW, but you all still seem to talk alot about only what YOU feel. You forget the others involved, especially the children. And you all claim to do it in the name of your children and protecting them, however why not live honestly and let your children know their family. Because it is THEIR family. A sister or a brother is one of the closest relationships, and out of the BW's selfishness in not being able to deal with the circumstances your children are being denied the right to know their sibling.

We talk about how we feel because this has been our safe place to do that. No, I have not forgotten the OC, whom we send things to and pray for regularly, nor have I forgotten my OWN children, whom you obviously don't give a rat's *SS about!! A sibling is SOMETIMES a close relationship when you can spend time together, and since the OC in our case lives on the opposite side of the PLANET, I don't guess my children and the slut's will be very close irregardless of when they find out, just as I am not close to my half-siblings who grew up in another state.

That is sad for you, because a sibling relationship can be the most rewarding. And your putting words into my mouth. I never said I didn't give a ratts a** about your children. I do care about them but I think lies beget nothing but hurt and anger. And your children should be raised in truth to avoid any further damage.

Lurking Woman, please stop this. Please. It will be very sad if the women who need this place no longer feel safe due to your posting such things.

You don't JUST want my children to "live the truth". Apparently you want us to spend the rest of our lives chasing this XOW and her children around the planet so that my DH can play daddy. We should give up his military career, financial incentives, the many wonderful opportunities we have where we are for our children, our own college credits, move FAAAR away from our own parents and our extended family to a backwater YUCKY state we both hate... and once relocated, the XOW can pack up and move herself elsewhere once more. NO thank you! When OC is old enough to visit us without her mother, she may. Since that is good plan to our family therapist, I really don't care if that is enough for you.

You have made a lot of assumptions. I do not suggest that you pick up and move anywhere. I suggest that your husband and yourself get to know this child as best you can within the given circumstances. If that means a birthday and a XMAs card for now and pictures than that is what it means, I just think that lying to any of the children involved only hurts.

Hey Jenny and Bozos,<P> You think she needs a hobby, or what?<P><BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Obviously I let my emotions get the better of my common sense!<P>Thank you Gregg. <P>I will point out that what Lurking is now saying is a card can meet her criteria of "emotional responsibility" for a child--trapped in her own words.<P><BR>"Whatever if true, honorable, just, pure, pleasing, commendable, excellent and worthy of praise, think about these." (Philippians paraphrased) <p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited April 18, 2001).]

Dear Ohbi Wan,<P> Thank you for your post, you are a gem.<P><BR> Just wanted to tell you that.<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

lynton,<BR>I think she does like playing on the freeway right in the middle! with love flowerseed

Dear Jenny, <P><BR> Common sense, what's that??<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Hey Flower,<P> You still up, too? How many insomniacs are on this site?<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg