posted April 18, 2001 01:12 AM <BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>This may come of as mean but I am going to say it anyway...I think the majority of you will live in a world filled with hate and lies. You all treat anyone that holds different opinions on situations horribly. You judge and are critical and then whine that we are critical of you. This may be mean but maybe your husbands went to another woman to look for someone who was a little more HUMANE and LOVING. And he is probably still going there and just lying to you because there is no way he could communicate honestly with you, since you BW's are so bitter and hateful.

Lurking, jerking, whatever,<P> Are you finished?<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Are you? I have as much right to be here as you and maybe if you and your bitter friends took the time to ask myself or LesW are stories you might find out we are not the hateful ones.

What was your name?<P> Yes, I am finished.<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

<P><BR> With you.<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

see what i mean, hatefullness. You don't ever stop with the hatefullness do you!

Yawn<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

LW: Please, please, please go away. Your situation is most welcome on the TOW board. Not here. On the TOW board, you can cry and whine about the situation YOU created. The participants there will greet you with open arms and you will receive the support you're looking for. They will give you the validation you sooooo much THINK you deserve. <P>You are just another OW with an OC who feels she and her child have the right to intrude on everyone's lives. Your attitude part of what's wrong with society today.

I can not understand why someone would post a thread as you did LW and not expect to have responses that are rude or hateful. We are here to talk to others that are in the same situation as we are and try to get advise as to things they, might have experienced, not only our feelngs , but court events, other family members, visitation experiences, support questions, and yes to let off steam. I am sure there are other help forums where people go to vent and let off steam and angry. Go there and put them down, go to TOW boards and tell them a thing or two about their behavior. I have tried to tell myself to ignore you, and you will go away, but what bothers me most is that in my situation it was a one night stand and my h and I are both sorry for it. We have tried to accept the oc and have been met with problems all the way. You have no right here, we are all here to heal and I can not understand what kind of person would come here and continue to bother others in pain. Many have told you, you are not wanted, but you continue. We must just feel sorry for people like you. You have nothing better to do than to come where you are told you are not wanted and bother people in pain who are trying to heal and repair their marriage. This is a form of therapy, would you put a counselor down who allowed someone to speak the way some here do about their problems in a session, no it is the individuals way of venting, getting anger out. Find something better to do with your time,if-+ you are so rightous go<BR>and look for a cause to help these poor children and leave us poor BS alone, by bothering us you really are not helping anyone. Only maybe yourself in some sick way. I have posted many times to you and tried to appeal to your adult side and to see things as they really are here, yet you have never responded back, you ignore any posts that are asking you in a adult way just to go away, I have never said anything really hateful to you, but just asked you to leave, why do you not just do as I say or explain why you continue to stay where you are not wanted. Because you are sick and you enjoy this bull. I know this will all blow over they all do so I am just going to wait and see but I have to tell you my peace. Gabi1116

Dear LW,<P><BR>Qoute:<BR>**************************<BR>This may come of as mean but I am going to say it anyway...I think the majority of you will live in a world filled with hate and lies. You all treat anyone that holds different opinions on situations horribly. You judge and are critical and then whine that we are critical of you. This may be mean but maybe your husbands went to another woman to look for someone who was a little more HUMANE and LOVING. And he is probably still going there and just lying to you because there is no way he could communicate honestly with you, since you BW's are so bitter and hateful. <BR>***************************<P>This is the perfect scenario of what happened to me. My xlover keeps coming back to me because his bitter and hateful wife wont stop whining and ragging and trying to control him esp. on the issue of "no contact" to OC. I encouraged him to be patient and honest with him but he said, the more she controls him, the more, he's going against it. He loves and adore the OC and there's no way he will cut-off contact with OC despite his promise to W that he will. So bottomline, its useless for W's to make the "no contact" policy if the H personally wants the contact. <P>In my situation, I left it with him and my child. It was his call to continue contact so I let him. I'm not involved anymore , its now between a child and father relationship, whether its part-time, I dont care. It only shows that he's an admirable, loving and caring person who made a big mistake but willing to take the responsibility for his wrongdoings. I will make sure that my child will understand why she's in this kind of position. REality is: this is the real world. whether we like it or not, this where we have to live! There's no such a thing as a perfect world, just like, nobody is perfect. If you believe there is, then you are in denial.<P>Goodluck to you all.<P>Good posting LW.<P>

LesW -<P>You need to gather yourself and LW and visit the TOW board. Women like you can whine about the wives you helped betray and will receive the utmost support from other OW.<P>You have no positive input for the wonderful people on MB. All you BOTH are doing is bashing. You will get NO validation here.<P>C Ya!

LesW:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It only shows that he's an admirable, loving and caring person who made a big mistake but willing to take the responsibility for his wrongdoings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I see little sign that this man is willing to accept responsibility for his wrongdoings. His affair with you was a selfish, hurtful indulgence. Completely a "self-centered" event. No matter how mean and horrible his wife is, an affair is always a mistake.<P>Now, he's taking "responsibility"? What responsibility is that? He continues to whine to about his wife to you without taking responsibility for fixing his marriage. He's making unilaterial decisions with regards to visiting the OC, in violation of the Policy of Joint Agreement (remember---if you don't enthusiastically agree, you DON'T do it). I even doubt that his involvement with your child is altrustic. He's doing it most likely because it makes HIM feel good.<P>Is his "hateful" wife wrong to "rag" on him and whine all the time? Absolutely. But it doesn't make his actions right. Around here, we try to focus on doing the right thing.

Lurking Woman<BR>***since you BW's are so bitter and hateful. ***<BR>Well, thats your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions... They are like as*holes, everyone has one. Some just stink more than others. ( get the hint ? )<P>Jtigger<p>[This message has been edited by Jtigger (edited April 18, 2001).]

Not only are you women mean and hateful, you don't read very well do you? I am not an OW, nor do I have an OC. I am a BW, whose husband cheated on me many times and was accused of fathering an OC. However I insisted he take responsibility for his actions and as it turned out the child was not his. So read better.

He's there to fix the marriage but BW keeps dwelling at his past mistakes which is irreparable at this point. He wants to move on with their lives but wanting to involve OC in his life and BW wont' let him do it.<P>The message i'm trying to send here is that: the more they control H's for "no OC contact", wont help, bec. H's will always want to see OC. He's more than willing to keep the marriage but at the same time, be responsible with OC, what's wrong with that?

Since you do not have any involvement with a ow or a oc you have no place here. Gabi1116

Go for it LW. I will give you my anonymous email sometime today.<P>LesW

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He's there to fix the marriage but BW keeps dwelling at his past mistakes which is irreparable at this point. He wants to move on with their lives but wanting to involve OC in his life and BW wont' let him do it.<P>The message i'm trying to send here is that: the more they control H's for "no OC contact", wont help, bec. H's will always want to see OC. He's more than willing to keep the marriage but at the same time, be responsible with OC, what's wrong with that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LesW: the Policy of Joint Agreement states that you should never do anything (take any action) without a mutually enthusiastic agreement in place between you and your spouse. You may consider that "controlling" behavior---but in a marriage, you don't have unilaterial rights to do whatever you want (unless you want a lousy marriage). You MUST take into account your spouse's feelings, and never disregard them and take an action that injures them.<P>Your OM's visit to your child is clearly in violation of the POJA. And every time he does that, he's causing his wife suffering---because she doesn't trust him. He doesn't deserve any trust---he had an affair, and is unwilling to live by rules designed to rebuild trust.<P>How's this scenario: your OM continues to financially support your child, but has no contact with you. And he (and his wife) learn the MarriageBuilder skills to improve their marriage. They live by the Policy of Joint Agreement. Eventually, if they're successful, I believe that you WOULD see the wife agree to contact in the future. It might take the form of having her as the intermediary (so that the OM would never see you again, as it should be) between your child and the OM.<P>Right now, you're focused on the "wrongness" of a vengeful, angry betrayed wife. And I'll concede the point that this attitude in general will not help a marriage. But at this point, I see your OM as more of the guilty party---he's all talk about wanting the marriage, but he's unwilling to walk the walk. <P>If you wanted to do something to help, I think you should insist that your OM not visit the OC until he has his wife's permission. And then use his wife as a go-between.

That's what I suggested to OM. That he can continue to make the visitations when he's ready. But he wants to see OC occassionaly without BW knowing. He thinks it might take her years to heal or maybe never, so for the meantime, he's supposed to be deprived of child's contact? I dont think he can live with that. I've been so supportive of him on his intentions to work on his marriage but on the other hand I cant stop her from seeing his child if he desires so. It his call, not mine. I already told him about what i think is right for him and his marriage. It'd be his decision at this point.<P>

For the record, my H told the OW I was a very good person, a Christian, one who does not judge and is rarely critical. That is an accurate representation of me. Except in case of OW- I am extremely critical of her, will always be, see her as a selfish woman who made decisions that impacted an innocent family and innocent children in my family.Does anyone even care about the needs of these kids? I know my H admits he was not thinking of our kids' needs at time of affair, he thought it would have no affect on me or kids. Unfortunately, having the OC has changed that drastically./the Ow has never accepted responsibility for impacting my innocent children, so I have no sense of duty for giving to or protecting her child either. I have a duty to protect, raise, care for and love my kids,and I will do that. I will not do that for OC-sorry, she has a mother to do that. I will care for mine, she can care for hers.And by the way, I think you are still participating in the affair if you encourage H to see child against his wife's wishes. I would tell H to either tell wife or you will-otherwise, you are supporting more lies, which you now say you do not want to do. LYing still is lying.