RY:<P>I too, don't agree with one statement:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>it is great everyone is working on their marriages, as I am trying, but there is a more important issue at hand...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe that you will find that if you have a happy, healthy marriage, any of these other issues will be trivial. Having a united, loving family can help sustain people through the worse of times. <P>God bless.

Hopefully in time the biology of my daughter will not matter to me, but considering she is only five months old, I still have a LONG WAY TO GO!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K:<BR><B>I believe that you will find that if you have a happy, healthy marriage, any of these other issues will be trivial. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I couldn't agree with you more. It's almost like building a skyscraper from the top working down, instead of forming a solid base and working your way up. <P>I think that's why I suggest to many to take the marital issues first, one step at a time, then bring in one issue at a time (ie: OC, support, visitation etc) until all issues are awarded some sort of solution. <P>Take care,<BR>CoR <P>

RY,<P>Being in your situation, I have decided, with my H, that OM is never going to have anything to do with Abbi. H is her Daddy, and has taken the responsibility COMPLETELY. That means no matter what happens in the future, he will be there for support, whether it is emotional, physical, or financial. If your H is willing to claim Hannah as his, it won't matter that she is not his biologically. It is his dicision to raise Hannah, and if, heaven forbid, you end up divorced, he has claimed her as his, and will be paying CS for all the children. If H adopts Hannah, it is just the paper stating what he has already told you. If OM is now giving up his rights so your H can claim Hannah, then let him, with out the stipulation of CS if you and your H don't make it. You really need to concentrate on rebuilding your marriage to your H, and just forget about OM. I know, it's hard to do, but the more you concentrate on H, and marriage, the less you will think of OM, in any way, shape or form. Don't get me wrong, I believe that you no longer have "those" feelings for OM, but you do still think about him, just look at your postings. He needs to be gone, out of your life. And, since he is willing to allow your H to claim your D, let him. I have stated before that if OM finds out about Abbi, I will threaten to sue for CS, but that will only be for the next 2 years. After that, my H is considered to be her legal father, because we haven't contested that fact. If OM decides he wants to claim her, he will have to foot the bill, and I know he is too money hungry to mess with that. Of course, only hind sight is 20/20, so who knows anything.<P>Again, I think that you need to just concentrate on your marriage, and let the OM stay in your past.<P>Please, don't take anything I said the wrong way. If I came on too strong, I am sorry, I just don't want to see you holding on to the posibility of divorce. You can't heal if you are expecting that to happen. You need to have a positive attitude about this, and your marriage. Your H is obviously willing to work with you on it, so cling to that instead.<P>Tigger

RY,<P>I am glad that your husband is being supportive.. I would like to make a few comments on all the replies and I would like to caution you on the legal end and suggest you talk to an attorney to make sure all of your ducks are in a row..<BR>First off, child support and visitation do not go hand in hand, they are two different issues in the courts, just because someone pays does not give them the right to visitation, the same in reverse, if they don't pay for some reason or another one cannot withold visitation..<BR>Yes, legally your husband is considered your D father, but you have done all of the blood work to prove otherwise and if the OM decides to take you to court he can, it's not just your decision to make..<BR>If you and your husband divorce, your husband would be financially responsible for your D unless the paternity issues have been brought to the courts first, it can be brought up later but until it's settled your H would have to pay cs and then later sue the om..<BR>One thing I would like to say is that in a lot of states if a spouse "adopts" the other spouses child/children and the other biological parent is still alive it is considered a matter of convience, ie; name, insurance, family unity etc.,<BR>and it does not nullify the biological parents rights to see the child but does take away the cs issues..<BR>I just want to caution you and everyone else, it is a issue that not a lot of attorneys have dealt with so I suggest that you do your homework too.. <BR>Also I understand your statement on wanting the om to pay if you and your husband divorce I think that is a normal feeling in these situations but remember if the two of you do stay together then later down the road divorce the courts will look at your husband as the responsible party in regards to cs because knowing about the paternity of your daughter and not doing anything other just being your D daddy (which is great, don't get me wrong here)the courts will assume that he agreed to take full responsibility for her which would include cs..<BR>All I can say after that is keep the door of communication open between you and your H, be each others best friends and don't ever take for granted the role that your husband is willing to take in your D life, he doesn't need to do what he is doing but he loves her and he loves you.. What more can be said..

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lsb:<BR><B>Just learning, regretfully yours, etc. I agree with so much what you say, Just learning. the fact my H has decided to not be involved in OC's life does not get him off "Scott free". Every day since I have learned of the A/OC, he watches the effects of the betrayal on us and our marriage.Every day he knows his error of judgement has cost him his life and possibly his future.Every day we struggle to make some kind of life for ourselves and our two kids. He thinks of the OC, I know it, wants whats best for her. I still think what is best for all is OW raising the OC in a loving home and finding a man to parent that child.The true father will be the one to cuddle her at night, raise her, be there in every shape or form. My H could not do that and stay in a relationship with me or raise our kids as they have been all these years. I do not undertstand if you are so fortunate to have your loving H accept this child, regretfully yours, why you want to involve OM at all in the child's life. I think involving him would be very confusing to the child, who will see your H as daddy-kids care not about biology, but about day to day being with them. YOur H will take that role and deserves that role if you let him.<P>Another issue, what about the rights of the children of the original family? Do they not deserve the maintenance of the life thrust upon them?Do they not deserve a full time daddy and mother to raise them??that is what was intact when the A and OC occurred. In my case, the OW always knew my H was married, knew of our two kids, knew he would never leave me for her. She knew he was committed to us.Despite that, she wanted to raise the child herself, initially with no demands on us, then sought CS 6 months after birth when she realized she could not economically support child. I can well understand she may wish my H was involved in OC's life, but he cannot be and still be in our life. That unfortunately is the way it is. I pray daily OW moves on and finds a committed partner for her child to help her raise the child, but I do not feel badly my H is not in her life. BEing in her life would be so painful for me,a nd right now I have enough pain on my plate.Every day my H sees the pain, the hurt, the disappointment, the betrayal both H and OW perpetrated on me and my family.And the fact H never wanted to leave me, and does not now, doesn't really ease the pain.Because I know somewhere out there is OW/OC maybe one day ready to pounce and attack my life even more. I see some of the OW posting here who seem respectful of the other family and keep their distance. I sure appreciate your attitude, I pray my OW keeps her distance as well, because she has wrought so much pain on my life that I do not think I can handle more. REgretfully yours you ar lucky to have a h who loves you so and accept the child.If I were you, I would move on and let OM go.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> I do believe there are OW who are respectful of the other family and don't interfere, the Ow has never contacted me. i do not feel that not interfering and NEVER interfering are two different things i KNOW the OW is telling her child the truth and I will have to deal with the Oc sooner than later.<P>

Hey RY,<P> I'm sorry, I don't know your story. My wife is in your shoes ( only her OM is single.)<P> What happened to make you hate OM so? You might help me understand what my wife is dealing with.<P> God bless you,<BR> <BR> <P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Hey K, <P> I agree with you, the MARRIAGE must come first and foremost. It is the foundation upon which everything is built!! This may not be a popular stance these days, but I believe it is truth!!<P><BR> (If I could only convince my wife!!)<P><BR> God bless you,<P><BR> <P><P>------------------<BR>Gregg

My "hatered" comes from the simple fact of being a mother and producing and having a child that I did not create alone. What OM does in his life in none of my concern. My daughter, the "child" we created together is. I am not upset that he wants nothing to do with her. He would not have a postive influence in her life to begin with, but to think that he would rather it just go away and not be bothered with the fact that we did something so wrong and that a child was produced is even more appalling. I do not feel he is or could be a good father if he is so willing to forget or dismiss a child. That said, I do not hate the OM, I feel sorry for him, amazingly enough. He will never know what a beautiful(physically and emotionally) child "he" has. That is his choice. I will not be my decision nor will I be the one to have to explain to her if she happens to knock on his front door in 18 years. We (my H and I) did what we felt was best for her.

Hey RY,<P> I'm sorry I used the word "hate", I did not mean to put words in your mouth. I think I'm kind of envious. If my wife felt the same about OM as you do, our situation would be a lot less complicated.<P> <BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

RY said:"I do not feel he is or could be a good father if he is so willing to forget or dismiss a child."<P>RY, you may have OTHER reasons for disliking the XOM, such as his being a serial adulterer, having poor values, crummy attitude, no conscience or the like. But I also respectfully disagree with you on the point above. If a woman in a bad position to parent gives up her child for adoption, she's a "hero", but if a man does the same, he's a "forgetting" "dismissing" jerk?! Is that fair? I don't think so. It IS possible for a man not to see his child because he honestly thinks that is in the child's best interest, as it is in your case, and so we think in our case. It is also POSSIBLE that the XOM is an okay father to his other child(ren), just as my H is good to ours, just as my uncle who fathered OC was great with his children of his marriage.<P>Also, I would think you might be grateful that your XOM is not one of the men who is sticking himself into your marriage and fighting for joint custody of his child!!<P>Respectful Best wishes to your marriage and family,<BR>J, 2+yrs recovery<P>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited May 06, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited May 06, 2001).]

I agree with Jenny. The fact my H has agreed to no contact with OC makes him no less a father. He is a wonderful father to our kids, always has, always will be , regardless of what happens to our relationship. But he is giving up OC for her to have a better life with hopefully another man to parent-I hope this man appears and coparents with OW. I have heard from some how the OC occasionally saw father who also had another family, and the OC did not feel happy about the arrangement. Many women give up child for adoption, and that is a loving thing to do. I consider my H giving up child for adoption to OW and whomever she connects with,a nd I hope one day it will become formal.Because the tie with the CS payments makes it so much harder for us, myH, and the oC.

Coming from a different angle on this, I would suggest that supportive comments (not necessarily validating word for word what RY is saying) are best at this point in RY's situation.<P>At this point, encourage her separation and disconnection from OM in whatever ways she wishes to make it work for her. Later on down the line, when she is more able to look back on this with lesser emotional involvement - in other words, when she has a safer 'distance' - she may want to talk about other issues.<P>Maybe it is just me, but I don't think that some of the posts are particularly constructive or supportive. RY must be responsible for knowing her legal rights - which we need to keep in mind vary widely from state to state - but we can support her in her desire to mend her family and come to terms with what she has done much better without the obvious bitter criticism.<P>She is here because she NEEDS our support... and we can give a great gift to ourselves by offering her that support without bitterness or rancor.<P>Just my thoughts...<BR><P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

RY,<P>I was wondering if you had spoken to your H about coming to this site? I know that my H had posted on another thread to have your H come here. Even though there aren't as many men who post on this board as women, they would be more than happy to help your H with any questions about your situation. Even if he just comes to read and lurk, I think it would help him out a lot. <P>I can totally understand your indifference to the OM. I feel much the same way, only our OM doesn't know. I also feel that he would be a bad influence in Abbi's life. Anyone who could gode someone to the point of threats, takes the first punch, then try to claim self defence is not worthy of taking care of a fish, let alone another human being! And that is not even counting the stuff he did to me(emotional blackmail almost from day one) Just be happy that he is "bowing out" and let your H be the best Daddy for Hannah! Like it has been said on this board many times over, it's not the sperm donation that makes a man a Daddy, it's the time, love, and support given on a continual, day to day basis!<P>Again, if your H comes to this board, he will have lots of support, not only from the other men in this situation, but from the women here too. Even if he feels as if everything is going just fine, he should at least know that there are other men in his shoes, so to speak, just like so many of the new women have found. And he can come to ask questions, or to just read of the other men's triumphs, trials, and tribulations.<P>Tigger

terri, you have a point. <P>RY, it IS good that you've distanced yourself from XOM, that you came clean with your hubby, that your H is willing to work on your marriage and raise this child as his own. These are all GREAT things! I hope you explore the great resources on this site for your marriage: Dr. Harley's plocies for a healthy marriage and Emotional Needs and Love Busters quizzes.<P>There are a lot of us betrayed wives on this board for whom talk about the "abandoned OC"(esp. in light of recent crashers) is a very sensitive issue.

well said jenny~i totally agree about the adoption example. it makes no sense that a woman who is not read for a child can give her child up for adoption, and it is seen as selfless. but if a man who is not read to be a father, doesn't want to be, he is a "Dead beat dad". i hate the double standard.<P>my father was an excellent father, still is, to me and my sister. he has 2 children from previous relationships, both whom were not told to him until way after their birth. he did not become involved with them ever, and that doesn't make him a bad person. <P>that would be like saying that a woman who gives a child up for adoption, doesn't really ever love her other children, or isn't a good parent to them. it is ridiculous. the two things have nothing to do with one another.<P>terri~ we all need support here. but i think if you want it, you should at least be nice to the others, and sensitive to their situtations too. RY said <B>but to think that he would rather it just go away and not be bothered with the fact that we did something so wrong and that a child was produced is even more appalling. I do not feel he is or could be a good father if he is so willing to forget or dismiss a child.</B> i always see comments like that as little jabs at those of us whose H's have no contact. and i get defensive when people say things that are hurtful to others.<P>most people here, regardless of their position in this situation, help everyone, whether they see OC or don't, are the WS or the BS, etc. of course most people identify with others in the same basic situation, but i think we all try to help everyone. <P>happy_girl<p>[This message has been edited by happy_girl (edited May 06, 2001).]

This RY's husband, I am posting under my wife's username as I currently enjoy a different board. Something to consider, what's the point of all of the hostility on this board? Are you really coming here to build you marriage or to build better defense systems for yourselves? I despise the A my W had and I loath the pain it has caused, however, I love our child and our family. My confusion is based on the idea of ethics and honor. My W did a terriable thing, but she stood up with honor and told me even when she did not have to. Understand I pray that the OM is NOT ever involved in the life of "my D". Yet I wonder what type of dishonorable man or women could walk away from a child and not acknowledge it's exsistence? Some of you have made reference to adoptions, but this is a completely different situation as these children or as you refer to them as the OC are being raised by one of the parents, mostly the mothers. As a man, I can honestly say I can not understand how another man could walk away from their own flesh and blood and allow the mother to raise them while acting like nothing has happened. I hope my view is tolerated as I am aware of the recent crashers on this board. Besides, aren't we all trying to raise our sons to be responsible for their actions?<BR>

Ry's H,<P> First let me say that I do not have a son, but i am raising my D to be responsible for her own actions.<BR> Second, I want to tell you how very happy I am that you have such a tender heart and love your family so. It just does my heart good to hear of marriaged making it even through these mistakes. Good luck to you and your family.<P>Love and Prayers<P>broken_wings

Ry, I have to say that I have been reading and lurking over all the issues that have been brought up on this thread for days. I want to agree first with Terri, that at this time you need to work on your family and the emotions that are still so fresh from you affair. As for RY's H I want to tell you how touched and happy it is to see such an understanding and loving spouse. I, as you, have accepted the affair and the child into my life and into my family. However, I must go back to address RY and say that this did not happen overnight, over weeks, over months, but over close to two years. I received a letter from as you are the ow, telling me of what a terrible man I was married to and how horrible of a father my H would have made anyway so how she is glad she is not in her life. This made me very angry, because my h is a wonderful man, a great spouse , and a fantastic father to my two children. He had a one night stand during a two month seperation and the result was a pregancy and child. I have to agree with Terri because your emotions are so fresh you are feeling things that may fade over time, I also want to agree with K about the building of you marriage first and foremost. Isn't that why we all came here to begin with, I was looking for a place to go and help with my marital issues the pregnacy area of this site was an added bonus to find. I have received much help here, as I wish for both you and your husband. No child will survive in any marriage that is not healthy in itself. As for Happygirl I have to also agree with her, when I read comments about the father having no contact and being put down for it, I too feel it as little jabs, and now we do have contact, but we could not until we reached a certain level in our marriage where we knew it was safe and healthy to bring this child into. How would it have been to bring the child into our life and home and have us fighting all the time, how would that have benefited him. Well, sorry I did not mean to make this so long, I guess that is what havppens when you stop posting for awhile. Peace and Happiness, to all, Gabi1116

RY's husband, let me say first and foremost may God bless you and your family for pulling your family together as one unit despite this terrible blow (the affair). I wish your marriage stability and happiness. You will find other wise men here (esp. K!) who are raising a child of affair and healing.<BR>----------------------------------<P>As for a man not "acknowledging" his biochild---what, for example, would satisfy you in YOUR case?? What would the XOM have to DO to "acknowledge" your daughter that you want to raise as your own? Aren't you holding a double standard???? Wouldn't that(visitation) moreso confuse and upset your child? How could XOM possibly have contact with your child and consider that the "right thing to do"? What about repairing his marriage and his children with his wife? Isn't XOM giving the child up to a stable life with her two in-house parents that she knows and loves the "moral" thing to do?? <P>Or are you saying, a man should only pursue his 'responsibility to parent' when the mother is single? There are many different situations that need different solutions, and I'm sorry you aren't open to understanding them.