DELETED BY MODERATOR<p>[This message has been edited by Tempest (edited May 04, 2001).]

Dear Freedom,<P>Everything you are feeling is so normal and so familiar. Like Happy_girl, my H and I are in recovery and we are doing very well. But, I remember like yesterday those feelings of rage -- because of the lack of control of the situation.<P>The actions of my H and a stranger caused my life to be irreparably changed. And, even if we had not stayed together, I still would have carried the scars and the anger with me forever. There is so much anger because there is absolutely nothing that you can do to make the situation better -- to make it go away. It is like being stricken with a terrible disease and there are drugs to make you comfortable but nothing to cure it.<P>For the first three to four months after discovery, I was a complete lunatic on a rollercoaster ride of emotions. I would be fine one minute and screaming the next. But I read everything I could find on relationships and infidelity and I started to examine my own heart and mind to see what I could and could not accept in this situation.<P>Forgiveness -- true forgiveness -- where I no longer wanted my H to pay for the crime came a long time later. It is a long process to heal, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. My H and I have a deeper and better communication now than I ever thought was possible.<P>I also want to mention to MJ7 and BW -- my H used to defend the OW. He was afraid that I would call her and say something unkind to her. I interpreted that as trying to protect her because of some kind of love for her that he was trying to suppress. <P>Only recently has my H told me that he felt tremendous guilt over the lies that he told OW because he never meant a word. He told her that his marriage was bad, his W did not understand him, he was trying to get out of the marriage -- everything she wanted to hear to get her into bed. Then, he left her, pregnant and alone. The goodness in my H would not allow him to further hurt a person that he had brought down.<P>He also told me that he was also walking a tightrope because he was trying to keep the OW happy. She had the power to make things extra hard for us both financially and emotionally. She could have contacted family members, employer, friends and made things very humiliating for us. She also could have constantly sought more CS for the child.<P>He told me that in his heart he resented every moment that he had to be nice to her and give into her whims and wishes but that since he had screwed up so badly he thought it was better to do it than run the risk of her hurting our family even more.<P>I was very quick to jump to conclusions -- and they were wrong conclusions. Talk to your H's and explain calmly, without anger, why you are feeling insecure about his position on the OW. Ask him to explain his feelings and let him know that you are not asking to start a fight, but simply out of a desire to know where you stand.<P>lsb, my H told me that he believes that OWs are actually women who hate men, but they get pregnant to have power over the men -- make them jump to their tune. In reality, they are pathetic, lonely human beings who are not capable of having the full, rich life of a married woman. So, they stalk married men and try to ruin their lives and their families' lives. When their little plan fails, they become even more pathetic in trying to cling on to the MM. Imagine actually believing that a man who spends 1 or 2 hours with you (most of which is in bed - real quality time with your mind...) is really considering building a life with you? <P>OWs deserve our compassion -- they are deluded. Some of them even believe that a MM stays with his wife for the children -- well where does that place their child in the MM's list of priorities. I guess that would mean that the MM does not consider the OW's child as equal to the children conceived through the sanctity of marriage. It really is a sad situation for them. We have full-time men in our lives and in our beds, we can really afford compassion for them.<P>love,<BR>heavenly

Can OW's be victims?<BR>Of course they can, if they were lied to by him as well.<BR>If they didn't know about the woman he had already in his life.<BR>But if they knew that he was already someone else's man they are only a victim of their own selfish choices, their own selfish desires.<BR>I am a victim because I chose to give my heart to a man who told me that his heart belonged to me. I am a victim because he stupidly forgot to listen to his heart and thought with the wrong head.<BR>So what is the OW's excuse??<BR>That she was smart enough and selfish enough to take advantage of a situation at another woman's expense?<BR>People that take advantage of things only deserve whatever it is that they get.<BR>Did anyone force them to place themselves in the position of being OW's or did they make the choice to place themselves in that position?<BR>If OW's don't like being OW's then they need to look in the mirror and blame the person that did that to them.<BR>It sure wasn't the BW.<BR>She wasn't given a choice by either the H or the OW.<BR>She just has to live with the results of their selfish choices.<BR>OW's should probably work on forgiving themselves and the man that finally did listen to his heart instead of directing their anger at the BW.

DELETED BY MODERATOR<p>[This message has been edited by Tempest (edited May 04, 2001).]

FH:<P>I have always been of the opinion that OW and OM are basically second rate losers that can only get their self esteem from believing for a time that they have 'won' their married person away from the spouse. <P>For that short time, which always ends in rejection of the OW, the second rate OW feels a kind of jubilation that they are 'worthy' on some level. That is how they get their self worth; by thinking they are so sexy and powerful that they can take a man away from his wife and family; that their wife is dispensable, when she clearly is not...the loser OW finds that out soon after the announcement of the not-so-blessed event. <P>They wreak so much destruction and heartache into our lives with their evil self-absorption that if we weren't paralyzed with our own pain, we might feel sorry for these poor, pathetic wretched losers that their lives are so void of character, dignity and compassion.<P>The OW is always tossed aside when the MM is slapped with the realities and horrors of his actions and forced to face his fall from grace. He sees the pain in his wife's eyes and hears it in her voice and knows the damage done is so devastating, it will take years to repair.<P>The WS says many things he really doesn't mean when involved in an affair. He says hateful things for which they are always ashamed of when the truth comes out. They realize it says much, much more about them than it does about the BW. The BW is usually oblivious to the A while it is occuring or is in denial if she suspects anything. This is normal and this is not a deficit in any BW...it is a protective mechanism to prevent further pain until it is less painful to face.<P>The stages we all go through are predictable under the circumstances but with God's help and this wonderful forum, we can advise and guide each of us through this terrible, terrible time in our lives. Coming here to rage, vent, discuss and commiserate begins the healing process. It also helps us keep ourselves from emotionally beating up on our WS while they have to live with their disgraceful behavior and live with their profound remorse and regret.<P>The sadness of loosing our exclusivity is the hardest thing next to facing the fact we are not the only mothers to our husband's children. In my case, I cannot have my husband's child at all, yet some second rate opportunist looking for a meal ticket succeeded in doing what I cannot. It is a bitter pill, however, he prefers to stay with me than run off with her and her OC and works double time focusing on us and our marriage. In many strange ways, we are better than ever. Amd OW is still stuck in her rotten little world licking her wounds because she was rejected for me. It is a small measure of satisfaction. Not much, but somewhat.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>PS Don't let the second rate opportunist losers get you down...they are sick angry people for they have been thrown away like yesterday's trash.<P>

Dear friends,<P>Since the day I joined this site -- no one says it better than Catnip.<P>Catnip - don't be a stranger, we need your wisdom more than ever. No second rate loser has ever gotten the best of me and it wasn't going to start with the OW.<P>Ladies let's continue to do what we are best at -- rebuilding our marriages. Let the others keep their noses pressed to the window panes looking at the Christmas tree with the gifts underneath knowing none has their name on it.<P>love,<BR>heavenly

freedom,<BR>Need I say more, glad to have you back catnip we need all the help we can get. Freedom I have just in the last few months been able to get that rage to stop rearing its ugly head. I have broke so many things in the last 2yrs then I have in my whole life. But it does go away and when it does you start to feel the joy and the good things that you thought you would never feel again. Also I did alot of burning of things anything that would remind me of this nightmare, poof it went up in smoke. For me I think things took so long was that I was stuck for over a year with nobody to talk to about everything till I found this site. I think it was last fall. I think the neighbors must really have to wonder what is going on dont ya think when we start raving like lunies . Hang in there come here and get it out it really helps. with love flowerseed

Oh heavenly you really made me crack over that one he hehe heheheheheheheheheheh wonder how many ow run around with frost bit noses. with love flowerseed

Yes, Catnip, you do say it well!<BR>Like you, I too wanted to be the mother of his child and she did get that.<BR>But as he himself told me.....<BR>"You are the one who has my heart, no one else has that."<BR>And when I first fell in love with him that is what I really wanted anyway. I have that.<BR>My heart is a torn up and bleeding and has a whole lot of scars but even as damaged as it is, it is what he wants.<BR>It is his as imperfect as it is. With time it will heal and in the end it will be stronger because of what it has suffered.<BR>Just as fire refines gold to make it pure so shall my love be refined and purified because of what it suffers now. <BR>If it can survive this, it will be able to survive anything!<BR>The impurities will take time to eliminated and every day is a struggle to do that. But a day will come when the love will be a love that endures and that will be better and have more value than anything she could ever think of giving him.<BR>By standing by him and working our way through this I have shown him the strength of my love already. That is what he has chosen to have in his life so I can only believe that that has more value to him than anything that she gave him.<BR>That is what I need to remember.<BR>That is the belief that keeps me going.<BR>That is what makes my effort to heal worthwhile.<BR>Walking away would be a whole lot easier, but sometimes the things in life that are most worthwhile are far from easy.<BR>

DELETED BY MODERATOR<p>[This message has been edited by Tempest (edited May 04, 2001).]

<BR>let's get to the core of the problem.<BR>sex with someone that you're not married to is risky. why? because there is no promise of committment. no 'til death do us part..better or for worse.' I know this isn't reality and everyone is 'doing it' (sounds juvenille) but think about it...if you had said NO!>!>!>!><P>just curious, how do you feel about abstaining until you have a ring on your finger????<BR>Keep in mind, that even the ring won't protect you from betrayal, (stating the obvious, forgive me).<BR>Take responsibility for YOUR choice...having sex w/ someone that was NOT committed to you. Forget about the lies, betrayals, misrepresentations, etc.<BR>Stop blaming a man for your pain and stop taking it out on WIFE....<BR>Work on healing yourself for your sake and your child's sake! Let us who've been through betrayal tend to ISB!<BR>Back off!<BR>

Another core problem is people who do not know how to constructively deal with their anger and so pick destructive ways.<BR>He was angry with his first wife and had never dealt with that anger and then he became angry with me and so he started drinking and stopped thinking and she was easy and made herself available because she was bored and needed something to do.<BR>She took advantage of a bad situation (his anger)instead of turning and walking away.<BR>Lack of morals.<BR>Or as I like to say....her Jiminy Cricket fell off her sholder and somebody squashed him flat!<BR>She used his weakness for her own selfish pursuit.<BR>So whatever heartache she has over this is her own fault.<BR>He was guilty of being extemely stupid and dealing with a powerful emotion in a negative way.<BR>She was guilty of greed, lust, selfishness, and a total lack of compassion or consideration for the feelings of others.<BR>They who live by the sword shall die by the sword.<BR>As ye sow, so shall ye reap.<BR>What goes around comes around.<BR>And now my dear friends and compadres, I have had enough for today!!<BR>I have definately had a bad hair day but tomorrow is a brand new day.<BR>Right now I need to go sit on the couch by the man that I still love despite his stupidity and do our weekly lesson from Dr. H so we can get our relationship going on the right track.<BR>God bless all of you who have helped me today.<BR>God touch the hearts of those who are suffering and let them feel the Peace that only He can give.<BR>My prayers are with all of you.<BR>And yes, I even pray for OW's that they have learned something from the things they have done and that hopefully that wisdom will keep it from ever happening again.<BR>As for OC's....I leave them in God's care. <BR>He has broader sholders than I!!<BR>Good Night.<P>

Can't we all just get along?<P><BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Dear Freedom,<P>ooo, Im gonna like you...first you had "Stand By Your Man" going through my head and then the Jiminy Crickett thing...that was cute! <P>Naivewoman,<P>A CONDOM DISTRIBUTER!!!! Give me a break! What, do you live by the "dont get high off your own supply" motto? That was actually too funny. Thanks for the laugh nw.<P>Love<P>bw

Heavenly, I know I am a little late, but I just wanted to say how much I liked the one about the window and the christmas tree. Catnip, very glad to read you again. To all my old friends here, hello I was away but am trying to get back into posting. I have been reading and have keep all of you in my thoughts and prayers each day. To all the newbies, Welcome and so sorry to have to see you join us, but you have come to a wonderful place. Aside from the verbal attacks from time to time this place has a lot to offer. I have been given a great deal of comfort, wonderful advise and have made some great friendships which I intend to keep and cherish for a long time. There is alot that is going on in my life right now, I am going to post it all on the background thread. Peace, Gabi1116

Dear lsb,<BR>Just now read about your h and the 70 year old neighbor lady. Oh that is just too funny. Well, I guess naivewoman thinks it is indeed the season for "senioritis".<P>lsb, I am actually a little jealous. why do you get to have all the fun showing this person how stupid she really is? why don't the crashers ever pick on me?<P>Keep up the good work, lsb. I'm sure she's getting disappointed that you're not the weak target she though you'd be.<P>with love,<BR>cd