Dear Mrs. Job,<P>Im so sorry that you are feeling so low.<BR>I wish I could reach out and give you a<BR>warm hug. And sit at your kitchen table and<BR>talk. You are in my thoughts and prayers...<BR>I agree that singing is good for the soul, as<BR>is gardening!!!<BR>HUGS and sincerest wishes your way, Donna

Hey Mrs. Job, <P>hope that you are feeling a little better. it is nice to see you posting so much now!! you used to just pop in occasionally, and it is nice to have you around more.<P>prayers for you.<P>happy_girl

LyntonG, Are you sure it's spelled anethestist? I thought it was spelled, anesthetist. ember

Mrs. Job:<P>I read your thread a couple days ago and I was so overwhelmed by what you wrote, I waited until I was fresh and could think before responding. My schedule has taken the wind out of my sails and I find that time has become a luxury again.<P>Mrs. Job, I remember well the first few months, the first year and a quarter, especially, when I too was walking around shell-shocked and traumatized by the discoveries.<P>I couldn't go to church because I would sit through Mass and sob uncontrollably, embarrasing myself, until a woman came up to me out of nowhere and comforted me while I spilled out my story to her. I am a very private person and to gut myself like this in front of a complete stranger was so out of character, I sometimes think about that morning before 7 AM Mass, just a couple days past D-Day II (pregnancy), and try to remember her face. Sometimes I wonder if she was an angel sent to comfort me.<P>She truly came out of nowhere. And while I do not remember her face, I remember a sublime kindness, concern and comfort from her that has stayed with me these past 2.5 years. When she found me in the vestibule that morning, she walked toward me with a purpose, as if she knew ahead of time that I was in need. Maybe I was making a spectical of myself when I thought I was being discreet.<P>After we spoke, I felt a warmth wash over me and then she was gone. I never saw her again at Mass and then shortly after that, I stopped going myself because I developed an anger toward God that I am just now getting through.<P>My profound grief was so debilitating that I found myself sobbing at the most inopportune times. No matter where I was, rolling my cart down the canned goods aisle, standing in line at Target, having coffee with a business associate, I constantly embarassed myself when suddenly sheets of water ran from my eyes. I couldn't help it, I couldn't stop it...every song on the radio triggered a gut-wrenching response from me. I switched to Talk Radio and listened to Rush's rantings instead just to keep my mind off of things. To stop the reel of pictures in my mind. It was awful, absolutely awful. By far the most painful experience of my entire life...and I have had my share of trauma and pain before this...but nothing, nothing compares to this in magnitude and scope. I still can't believe I have come this far today to talk about it now with reason and without emotion on most days, that I can focus on others in pain instead of myself and to get through a day or even part of a week without playing the reels or thinking of OW/OC.<P>It is a process, Mrs. Job. I guess what stuns me the most is the horrible things that happened to me when I was in such pain. Things just went from bad to worse. Everything crumbled around me. My husband and I were forced to divorce because the courts believed we had far more than we did and tried to attach our home and mandated outrageous child support...more than my husband actually made because we had a business that suffered and died a slow death. They refused to acknowledge and figure in our actual income tax filings and were convinced we were hiding assets. They were so aggressive, we were forced to file bankruptcy and dissolve the company, which we would have had to do eventually, but this certainly hastened our resolve.<P>My husband tried to kill himself in January 2000, spent a great deal of time on detox, treatment centers, crisis centers and is just now sober some six months. It took a long time for him to get his sobriety back. He had been sober nearly eighteen years when he fell from grace, went crazy and did all the terrible things that changed our lives forever.<P>All the bad stuff seems to come all at once. I am not sure why we are so burdened with so many terrible things when we need relief, but I see now that we do get through it if we just stay focused ahead.<P>I am finally sleeping (like the dead) again, my memory is back and I am remembering things again, I am getting my stamina back and my focus is back. But it took nearly two years. When we are so overwhelmed with the events that just happen that we have no control of, I think we retreat into a place where we can comfort ourselves. Sometimes facing the horrors are too much for us and all we can do is get through the days and weeks until the healing process begins. <P>It isn't fair, it isn't right, but it is God's will I guess...which brings me back to my anger against God that I am finally dealing with. I have come to realize that He did not cause these things to happen and it is our own human frailities that caused these 'events'...that somehow our spouses got lost and forgot to do God's will and gave into self-indulgence, forgetting what is really important...or handled their problems by NOT handling their problems and gave into a quick fix rather than finding out what the problem really was.<P>Either way, we are forever damaged by this yet the paradox is that we have become better people somehow by finding we have the ability to weather these storms (tsunamis) and rise like a Phoenix from the ashes and achieve a higher plane and in some cases, the marriages are better than we ever thought possible.<P>This was a conundrum for me because I absolutely loved our marriage before. I thought it was so intense, so close, so involved and so connected...I never dreamed it could be better than it was...but it is. It is very, very strange to realize things were not as they seemed, which gives me pause at times thinking that maybe things today are not as they seem...sometimes I even wonder what the motivation for me was to stay and if I am kidding myself and then I worry that I am somehow diminshed by staying and look foolish.<P>The depression has lifted for me on its own, although I still will have a day occasionally where I am suddenly sad or melacholy...or angry. Then I scream in my car or cry in the shower.<P>But, Mrs. job, in the beginning months after D-day, when one assesses all the damage, it's hard to get happy and you will be depressed. Many here go on meds and some, like me, choose to feel the full force of the pain in an attempt to get through it quicker. The good news is that it does pass, things will get better and you will get your memory back, you will eventually cry less and the pain will subside from sharp, lacerating slashes to a dull ache occasionally. Time. And the forum. I still marvel at the forum and am constantly grateful we have this site to find others who are going through the same thing so we can help each other. Healing balm for the soul.<P>I, too, cannot have my own husband's child. And I too, feel the sharp sting of pain when I think of my infertility yet a stranger was able to conceive with such ease over three weekends. Extremely painful...I understand.<P>I will pray for you that you are able to adopt your child (ren) soon and that the powers that be give you the green light and let the process begin.<P>You're a remarkable woman, Mrs. Job. You will get through the stages and the trials, emerging better than ever. Give yourself the time, the care and be good to yourself. You are an asset to our forum and give so much to our little group. Thanks for your hilarious satyrical renditions of Biblical stories...I love how we have the ability to laugh in spite of our troubles.<P>Catnip =^^= <P>

Catnip are you sure we aren't twins separated at birth? Is there one more hidden secret that my parents didn't tell me, besides the intersex condition and the fact that my Dad adopted me? <P>Actually, there is much more that has gone on with my husband during this process that I can't write on a public board. He has been having his own set of challenges that sound about as severe as your husband's. I know that I have left enough personal details on this board that if for some unknown reason our adoption agency ever saw this board they would be able to identify me. (Can you spell p*a*r*a*n*o*i*d? I know I can.) I must be the only person who gets massively depressed and doesn't lose her sense of humor. As it is, the agency doesn't know about the A and the OC and if they did, any chance at the appeal would be over in an instant. Or if they ever found out that I went to the hospital for depression after learning of A and OC. Our homestudy was approved before I ever found out about the A and I answered all questions honestly about previous mental health care. They pulled approval after I found out about those things so I felt no obligation to tell them.<P>I thought I was doing so much better, but then my work setbacks came right on top of losing the adoption. I was up until 4:00 last night (and up by 7:00). I think that the stupid prednisone is doing its usual trick of keeping me awake and that adds to the depression. (On the other hand, my artiritis and tendonitis feels much better on the prednisone). <P>I never get any time alone anymore because my husband is out of work and has lost his driver's license (an old unpaid parking ticket from 3 years ago in Calif. has caused our new state to revoke his license and the fines have grown to over $2,000. He got the ticket the day before we moved out of California and he forgot about it. Although we, obviously, left a forwarding address, Calif. has a law against forwarding any DMV documentation.) <P>So...I have to do my grieving at night. I spent my night looking at their pictures, curled up in their beds, smelling their clothes to see if there were any that I had forgotten to wash that still might smell of them. I also found a one hour cassette tape of them that I didn't know that we had. They had a tape deck in their room last summer and they would periodically put it on while they were playing in their room. I couldn't believe the joy and the pain of hearing their voices again. I understand enough Russian to catch bits of their conversations. On the other side of the tape is a night we had our nephew staying over with them and we had a balloon fight until all hours; we were all camping out in their room on the floor. Getting them settled down to sleep was nearly imnpossible that night and we wound up taking our two little Russian boys and our nephew all to our big king-sized bed.<P>We still have the appeal underway and I am wondering if this unbeknowst (to us) tape might help our case. We got denied the adoption because my H kicked someone's tire 4 years ago in an argument at a red light. He never hit, nor threatened to harm the other person. It was his one run-in with the court system in his life and a long and distinguished military career. The court reduced it to a traffic ticket and we didn't report it to the adoption agency because the form said you don't have to report traffic tickets. They said that because the original charge was a misdemeanor we were responsible for telling them that. They made H take a $2,000 forensic psychiatric exam which he passed just fine and the agency still failed us (after we had already been approved once and had a tentative travel date). There has never been any violance in our house--*never*. No one who listened to that tape of all of us playing that night could ever think that there was even a possibility of us every harming those little boys. The agency said that it isn't the traffic ticket but the fact that we "lied about it," which we did not. We were walking the fine line of truth. My H did lie about having seen a counselor in his past for some situational depression and anxiety. He thought that if he admitted to that that we wouldn't get to be parents. We have apologized over and over, said that we would go to whatever type of counseling they might want us to go to, whatever they wanted, just please don't keep those kids from us. Yes, I know that my H has to work very hard to regain my trust and to learn to be an honest person again, but he is working hard at it. They say how can we be parents when integrity is the most important thing you need to teach your kids and he lied during the adoption process. Many of us think our husbands or wives are great parents and they have all had an affair. It doesn't make them irredeamible people. They say we can try again in 5 years through them or if we go away quietly, they won't fail us on the homestudy and then no one will ever know that we "really failed" it and we won't be obligated to tell another agency abou it. Now who is manipulating things? H says it seems to be OK for them to paint things in a better light than they really are but it isn't OK for us. They reduced our credit card debt (to nothing) and reduced him from a moderate to a light drinker to make us look better to the Russian court. Guess it just depends on who is holding the brush, huh?<P>The depression is deepening. I called shrink today for an appointment and I see my counselor tomorrow and we see marriage counselor the day after that. No wonder I can't get any work done and got demoted. I am tired of the pressure of being the only one working in our family. I am afraid I will get so depressed that I lose my job and then we lose our house, the cars, everything. I have lost most of the emotional/spiritual things that mattered to me; all that is left are the physical (not-so-important) ones.<P>Mrs. Job<p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited May 29, 2001).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mrs. Job:<BR>[ Mrs. Job and Catnip. i truely believe that God will never give us more than we can handle but it seems like he is rally throwing a lot at you both. I will pray that things work out for both of you.

Hey Ember,<P><BR> It is. Thought she was close enough. My spelling is so horrible, didn't want to correct someone else.<P><BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR>Gregg

Mrs.J I don't know much about Russian adoptions but is there any way you can switch agencies (you could use same homestudy) and still request the same boys? Just a thought.<P>Godbless,<BR>J

Jenny,<P>We thought of that. We would have to get a new homestudy done as that is what we passed and then subsequently failed with our current agency. As our homestudy agency and adoption agency are one in the same, I think that they would deny us even if we passed a homestudy with a different agency.<P>One issue is that the boys were slated last we heard to go to another country on another summer program. They are such wonderful kids that I hope they get adopted. I can only say that because I think there is no way on earth that our agency will ever let us get these (or any other kids) and I would want to see the children happy and in a safe and loving home. My first choice is of course, us, but that doesn't appear possible. Another route to these same kids would be if their particular orphanage were working with two or three different adoption agencies in the U.S. That is rare (so that kids aren't offered to different couples at the same time) and our chances of find that particular agency, if it even exists, is almost nil.<P>We are not allowed any more contact with the boys and we will not be told if they are adopted, or even if they are still alive or dead. This is the most unspeakably cruel situation I can imagine. We love them, they love us, and we are going to be separated for the rest of our lives.<P>Thank you all again for the kind thoughts; they do help. I had a huge cry after my Dad called tonight and that always helps. My depression deepens over a couple of days until a huge crying fit (weeping doesn't cut it) takes over for an hour or two and then the depression lifts a little. It is so hard to tell what is grief and what is depression; the two get so intertwined.<P>Mrs. Job