RY,<BR> Just a wanted to say something on the original question you asked about med history. I cant see it really being something to even worry about at this time. If the need ever arises that your child has a med condition then I'm sure you will be able to get any info you may need. <BR> Although I was married to my grown childrens father he or the family was not involved in there lives after we divorced. There has been no need to worry about med history so far kids are 24 and 22. I would let it go its really not something you need to worry about at this point. She also may never want anything to do with om. My 24 yr old which is a girl wants no part of her father in her life were the son 22 has excepted him but only after he was about 19. I live two blocks from ex, kids use to have to walk right by his house to go to school they never had that need or want to know him growing up. You wont know until the time comes. <BR> flowerseed<p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited June 01, 2001).]

CoR,<P>Just a question on a comment you made in your last post about father's rights. I was wondering how you felt about my position with our OM's rights? My H and I are raising Abbi as OURS, and OM doesn't even know that I had gotten pregnant. OM thought he could force me out of my marriage by forcing me to tell H about the A. Well, H told him to leave our yard "or else". OM then attacked H, and the rest is history. We hope that OM never does find out about Abbi, as we actually fear for the safety of the rest of our family! <P>This OM was also faking blackmail letters to himself and one to me. I caught him in it, by lightly marking his computer printer paper, and the letter to me had that mark on it. When I confronted him with it, he then tried to accuse me of doing it. Basically, I can tell you that the pregnancy was something he was trying to acheive, because the letters were saying that if he didn't get me pregnant, then they would kill him. Also, if I tried to end it they would kill me, or if I told my H or his W. Now, is this a symptom of NPD? I do admit that I was stupid for having the A to begin with, but by then, he literally had me scared for my life, and those of my family! <P>Before he left the housing area, my H and I would sit out front so we could see if he was coming over or not. OM would go over to his "friends" house, but would be watching our house the whole time! Supposedly, his commanding officer had told him to stay away, but he didn't. Of course, when his command was told of this, nothing happened. He would call and hang up on me, but if H answered, he would start asking about money he had spent on me and stuff like that. We finally changed our phone number. When the military moved him out of housing, we didn't see him but twice, once at the base club and that same afternoon at his Captain's Mast hearing. After that, we didn't see him again. <P>That is just a little of the history that has made us choose to keep him out of our lives. <P>I am one of those who will sue for CS if he does find out about Abbi, because his money is more important to him, and that would keep him away, we hope. I have to admit that I still worry that he will find out before the 2 year grace period.<P>So, do you think that I am being vindictive to sue for CS only if OM sues for visitation? Do you think that I am being cruel to not even tell him about Abbi? We do have a copy of the police report for the asault, but none of the letters or the copy of the police report for harassment I file on him, but I don't know if that would be enough for a court to say he doesn't deserve to get visitation, or is a threat to our family. <P>Just curious as to what you think, and anyone else. I don't know if I have ever revealed this much about our situation before. And I have rambled again(can you tell that Abbi is sleeping? )<P>Tigger

Dear CoR,<BR>What bothers me is the inconsistancy.<P>When women want child support, they say, "You have to pay, it's YOUR child."<P>But when the father wants joint custody, they say, "I don't want to have to share MY child with you."<P>Fact is, the child belongs to BOTH parents. And if there is to be equal responsibility, there should be equal rights.<P>One more thing to RY, then I will stop picking on you today <P>I guess what really irritates me is that you show absolutely no remorse for your part in the affair. You have said time and time again that you want om to be held accountable in some way for producing this child, if not legally, then at least emotionally. But not once have I seen you say, "you know, I am really sorry that I did something to cause another woman tremendous pain." or "I know I am to partially to blame for the fact my h is not Hannah's father" You say all sorts of terrible things about om, as if it is entirely his fault that you had his baby. You insult the wife, you say she does not deserve to know your daughter, you act as if somehow SHE did something to hurt YOU. You have not shown even the tiniest amount of compassion or sympathy for what she is going though. There are THREE innocent victims of this affair, RY. You are not one of them.<P>-cd<BR>

Tigger, <BR>For the record I think you are absolutely right in not telling om about your pregnancy. I feel that when a man has sex with a married woman, he automatically forfeits his rights to know about the child that is created. The right to raise the child belongs to the husband of the woman, if he so chooses to exercise that right. In other words, I think the husband should get the first shot at it. Similarly, I would have thought our ow would have been perfectly justified if she had chosen not to inform my husband about oc's existance. <P>This may seem a bit contradictory to my "father's rights" stance, but I feel that the best interest of the child supercedes the man's rights in this case. You and sailorman are providing Abbi with a loving two-parent home. That is the most important thing here.<P>And, if I were in your shoes, I think that filing for cs in order to protect Abbi and your family from om's negative influence would definitely be justified. In fact, if our situation was reversed, and ow had gotten married and wanted her husband to adopt, and was truly providing a secure home for Darling, I would think we were being unfair to Darling if we pushed for contact. In that case, I think ow would be well within her rights using cs as a last ditch defense against us meddling in her life.<BR>-cd

Tigger,<P>I actually thought about writing something to you, but didn't have the time to write everything down then. So I started a post, but will just respond to your post. If that makes much sense.<P>What do I think of your situation? Well, first, I assumed already that there was something else within your situation to warrant not allowing the om to be involved. Your post do not read as one who is vindictive and/or angry. With that thought, I pretty much figured there had to be special circumstances in your situation which would make one take that route. So, I'm glad you posted about those circumstances. <P>So what do I think? Well, I'm not only an advocate for father's rights, but also one for children's rights as well. One of the biggest rights they have is to not be placed in abusive situations. We OWE it to every child to provide a safe environment. Because of past behavior, you KNOW for certain this child would be in an unsafe environment should the om be involved. There lies the difference. To KNOW it and to base it on heresay is TWO different things. <P>So, do I think you've done the right thing? Yes, I do. You have NOT made the decision because you're mad, you've not made the decision because you are trying to get even, and you're not making the decision because you THINK his wife is crazy. You've made the decision because, with already proven behavior, it is best for that child. <P>I'm honestly not being hypocritical. The needs of a child comes way before anything else and I truly view your situation as just that. If he were not abusive or violent, I think it's safe to assume you wouldn't act with vengence or anger, but again would do what is best for your child. THere is a huge difference between that and acting out of bitterness and resentment. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. <P>Take good care,<BR>CoR <P>

Let me start by saying I am NOT A VICTIM IN THIS SITUATION. <P>In MI OM does not have any rights. The courts believe and up hold the idea that ANY CHILD BORN WITHIN THE M IS A CHILD OF THE M AND NO THRID PARTY CAN CONTEST OTHERWISE. OM is considered a third party so he cannot claim he produce Hannah. All paternity rights belong to my H unless we contest otherwise, which I won't. My H has shown me that any one can produce a child, but it takes someone special to raise and love that child. So as time goes on I do not feel the need to look into having OM be involved in her life. My H is more than willing to raise her as he has since the day she was concieved.<P>I do not know OM W, nor do I feel the need to know her. I certainly do not want her or her family to know my D. I will do whatever I have too to ensure that. I am sure she is a nice person, but it doesn't effect me. I do not feel the need to justify or express remorse in my involovment within her M and I certainly do not feel the need to plaster all over this forum or any other of how sorry I am. It is within my M I do this. No where else. I certainly have had some type of effect in her M, but I did not brake the vows there, her H did. I broke them in mine. <BR>My responsiblity is to my H, my children, to my M. Not theirs.<P>This forum is for people who are looking for supporting view points regarding how they feel about their situations.<BR>Not once have I said anything about OM W other than what he has told me. He indeed is suffering from NPD and I feel sorry for her. That is not my place to be, he is not my H thank god, I don't have to deal with it. Like many of the betrayed spouses here, I have never read in a post where the OW is a wonderful human being that made a mistake. She is dealing with that mistake and raising her child be it alone or trying to find as many of you have stated a suitable replacement for a father. I luckily have a H who loves me very much and wants me to be his W, regardless of my error. From that error I carried and gave birth to a child that was not biologically my H. What would I have done if I had known from the beginning he was not her bio-father, I more than likely would have left. I made a mistake and would not have let him suffer through all he has. I did not know at the time, how could any women who was in this situation, I took the risk, I am dealing with it. <P>I agree with CD's post that if a child is produce within the M it is the H right to say first what will happen with that child. If my H had chosen to not raise her, then the responsiblity would have fallen on to OM. Thankfully my H chose what he has and I love him more everyday that he wants Hannah. What I was angry about is OM left me with the choice of if this was his child that she would have to grow up fatherless if my H had chose to leave. It wasn't my H responsiblity to raise her in the first place. He is though and that makes him a better father to our D and S. He has shown what type of man he is, a man willing to step in a assume a role he doesn't have to. That makes him a wonderful human being. So no, OM does not deserve my time to feel sorry that he will never know my H's D. He will never know of her accomplishments or her love. I feel no pity for him. It is his cross to bear.<P>------------------<BR>RY<BR>"This child was not created out of love, but was born into love, that is all that matters."<p>[This message has been edited by Regretfully Yours (edited June 01, 2001).]

RY,<BR> You just confused the willys out of me please explain<P> In MI OM does not have any rights. The courts believe and up hold the idea that ANY CHILD BORN WITHIN THE M IS A CHILD OF THE M AND NO THRID PARTY CAN CONTEST OTHERWISE. OM is considered a third party so he cannot claim he produce Hannah. All paternity rights belong to my H unless we contest otherwise, which I won't. <P>Then you turn right around and say If my H had chosen to not raise her, then the responsiblity would have fallen on to OM. <BR> <BR>It sounds like your only worry is yourself and if you know nothing about his wife you have no business calling her crazy. Which after whats been done to her by you and her h she most likely is feeling a little if not alot crazy.Also there are some wonderful ow here that are taking responceabilty for there actions not blaming it all on there partner in the mess. flowerseed<p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited June 01, 2001).]

Flowerseed, I think you missed a few key words in my post. IF my H would have chosen to leave our M and NOT raise Hannah, then it would have fallen to OM as I would of had to have taken my H name off the BC in order to protect him from having to pay CS for a child that was not. MY H has chosen to remain in our M, so I will not contest paternity. Your are right I don't know the W. I choose not too. Am I viewed as one of the wonderful OW here? <p>[This message has been edited by Regretfully Yours (edited June 01, 2001).]

Ry,I guess my thinking is just so diffrent from yours. If I was to get preg by someone other then my h then I would hold nobody accountable but myself. flowerseed

Again, RY, I don't understand what MI law you're talking about which states only the mother can bring a claim of paternity. If you know where I can read this via the web, please post a link. I honestly like to keep updated on Family Law issues, so if I'm missing something, let me know. <P>However, I did read a short description of Paternity in MI and found this:<P>"The Plaintiff in a paternity suit has the burden of proof by a preponderance of evidence. The mother, father or the Family Independence Agency (FIA) may bring an action. If paternity is not voluntarily established, the party seeking a finding of paternity must file suit in the family division of the circuit court." <P>Burden of proof does not mean just you can file a claim of paternity. It means whoever files has to prove it's so or isn't so, not the person you're filing against. It also states the mother, father or FIA can bring an action. Since the other man has already been proven as the bio father, he can walk into court today and file for joint custody. <P>Also, I read this contained in the same page:<P>"Just because your name appears on the birth certificate, does not automatically establish paternity." <P>Also: "A paternity acknowledgment does not establish legal, court recognized paternity, but may establish custody without due process."<P>If you're interested in reading more, please visit this site:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.divorcenet.com/mi/mi-art03.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.divorcenet.com/mi/mi-art03.html</A> <P>If you truly want to keep the NPD other man out of her life, a better idea would be to have your husband adopt her outright. If the other man signs off on the forms (because you do have to let him sign the papers too) then he can't come back to file for custody, visitation nor can you file a claim for child support. However, if your husband doesn't adopt, the other man has until your daughter is 18 years old to file for joint custody. <P>Again, if there is something on the web which states what you have said about only you or your husband having the ability to file a claim of paternity, I would greatly appreciate a link. <P>Take care,<BR>CoR<BR>

cd, awhile back you stated, "...it's a blessing she will never know......." I totally disagree with you. It was truly a blessing when I found out the truth. ember