I'm glad that Jen has thrown her info in. Someone please tell me there is hope for us to be fixed. I do love being married I just didnt know that what I was doing was so bad until now. (except for the affairs) Now she is saying that I need to choose between my sister or Jen. SMy sister and I are moving in together. We are doing this because neither one of us can afford our own place. She says she doesnt want my sisters friends over. I dont want them over either. I have told my sister thisand we have both agreed that they will come over to pick her up and thats all, none of them staying or hanging out. I told her this to try and preserve Jen and I. If I could afford my own place I wouldnt need my sister to move in. But my sister has been awesome to talk to all through this and I want her there still.Today Jennie says she is going to turn in the rest of the divorse papers. Please tell me there is SOME hope with us. Thanks again.

cw,

You keep talking about how badly you want the marriage to work, but I can see where Jen may not believe you. You've told us that you aren't willing to give up your female friends, you've asked a woman out on a date, and you're not willing to compromise on the issue of living with your sister. Where have you compromised for your wife? She's hurt, she's disappointed, and she's ready to move on.

If you want reassurance that there is hope, you need to show your wife that there's a reason to come back. And that means agreeing to what she needs, whether you want to or not. Saying that you want your marriage to work but living on your own terms will only push her away.

Listen to your wife and give her what she needs and then maybe we'll tell you that there's hope.

Dobie

I have told her that I'm not going to move in with my sister, I have told all my "girl" friends that I cant talk to them until I work things out with jen. I finally got a list out of her, I have been working on that list and trying real hard. She is still saying she is done. I will do anything to keep her, what ever she wants, I will do it, I told her I would give up my job for her.. that is a huge sacrifice for me. I didnt realize that I had been puting my job ahead of my family. Now I'm kicking myself in the butt for not seeing it sooner. I was so woried about making money for the bills and crap like that. I think Jen and I are going to go to a counsellor tomorow with each other. I hope it shed some light on the subject as far as her seeing how much I do love her. She says that she has had to MAKE me do these things. She told me in the past but I didnt see it. Now I have seen them as serious problems and am trying to corect things. But it is hard, I have had these stupid habits for so long and to break them all at once isnt easy, I feel I am doing better though. I havent talk to my "friends" in a while. I had to have jennie help me erase email addresses, I thought I had erased them but they were in a different spot that I didnt know about. I am being with the kids a lot more. I feel horrible about that one, once again, job before family. Also I talk to my Guy co-workers more and more. I know there is something out there that I havent tried but I dont know what it is. She said that she doesnt want to change her mind again because I will throw it back in her face, which I wouldnt. I would be so happy for her to change her mind right now. She is agreeing to go to my counsellor right now and that is awesome. I love this woman so much and she doesnt see it. I dont blame her, I have givenher not much to go off of as far as showing her my love. Honestly, How do I show her I love her???? thanks again for your info on this, I know I'm not husband of the year or even husband of the day, but I do know that I love Jennie more than life its self and will do anything to to keep her with me. ( I'm not a stalker though). I am obsessed with her, i am infatuated with her, I worship the ground she walks on and I havent for a while and now I'm trying to make up for it. I know I can do this and I know she loves me, she has told me this. But she also said she doesnt love me the way she should. She said this when we were first seperated and she changed her mind. But then I had been doing some serious thinking. But when she comes around this time, I am done thinking, I know what/who I want and it is her and my kids with me for eternity. I just hope she comes around or at least gives me a little sign soon. I'm not going to give up though and I'm not going to take a break from trying to keep my true love. Please send me sugetsions that might help with this
thanks

Dear Officer C. Wilden,

Have you read the Love Diet? It is posted by TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN, at the end of his posts. One of the posts is under Negoitations, 180 Dgree Divorce Busters. Did anyone mention it is earlier posts?

You seem to be worrying about what your wife says, rather than working to make effective deposits ih her love bank. It is true that you made a major withdrawal with inconsiderate indiscresions.

Rather tahn asking her probing questions, just find wasy to buy her flowers.

Listening to your wife's answers to your porbing quesions will probably usually lead you astray from what is important. I listen politely to her ideas, whether I understand her ideas or not. I just try to be nice to her. I am tempted to probe her ideas, but I self-discipline myself to resist the temptation. My probing has caused upset too often in the past. I would encourage you to resist the temptation to try to probe your wife's ideas or words.

When I feel my wife is upset wtih me, I try to give her more attention. Ask her out to lunch or dinner, or pick her up after work to go shopping, anything.

I suggest you find ways to love your wife better.

Us men often overlook simple things that can make a big difference to a woman. I recommend you read The Love Diet, under Negotiating, the bottom link in a post by TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN, entitled 180 Degree Divorce Busters.

I will copy the first part of the post here, to get you interested, hopefully, enough to go to Negoitating and finish it.

Spending time thinking about what lies behind the meaning of the words your wife chooses to communicate her ideas to you, detracts from your finding ways to generate more love from her. Think of yourself as a love generator, not as a grand inquisitioner.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From Barbara DeAngelis book "What Women Want Men To Know":

The Love Diet: How To Feed Your Partner's Heart.

This is the "Love Diet". I've created it as an easy way to remember and practice feeding your partner's heart and being a wonderful lover outside of the bedroom. It's simple, it's fun, and it will make a big difference in your relationship.

When you study nutrition, you learn about the basic food groups -vegetables, grains, proteins, dairy products- and the importance of having each of these every day. Well, the emotional nutrition is the same -feeding your partner's heart means making sure you give him or her all of the basic "emotional food groups" each day. What are these? I call them The Three A's: Attention, Affection, and Appreciation. They are the secret ingredients contained in the Love Diet that will fill up your partner's heart: You pay attention, you show affection, and you express appreciation.

If I asked you right now how often you need to eat every day, you'd probably answer that you need to eat at least two or three times a day, with a few snacks in between. Well, I'd like you to think about feeding your partner's heart in the same way with the following Love Diet.

*Love Meals: Your partner needs three Love Meals a day. What is a Love Meal? It's a time each day for three minutes when you feed your partner's heart with one or more of the menu items contained in the Three A's: Attention, Affection, or Appreciation. I call this the 3X3 formula, three times a day, when you choose to actively love your partner for at least three minutes. Think about it as three minutes of intimacy. Maybe it is three minutes in the morning together before you get out of bed,or three minutes on the phone in the middle of the day, or three minutes after the kids go to sleep. These are Love Meals. Just like you'd have breakfast, lunch, and dinner, you have Love Meal#1,#2,and #3!!

*Love Snacks: Even when you eat several good meals a day, you need a snack once in a while, don't you? Well, the same applies to feeding your partner's heart. Along with the 3X3 formula of three Love Meals a day, give your mater several love snacks during the day. What is a love snack?:


Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, still teruggling

<small>[ November 11, 2003, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

well everyone I told my wife to drop off the rest of the divorce papers today, I feel like I am competeing for herattention, effection and love against two other guys who dont have a shaky history with her, how do I compete with that? I cant, I love her so much but I dont have a chance to get her back, I feel that she is gone. All she has said is that she is done. I try everything and nothing works. I dont want to give up and I'm not, I''m still going to go to counselling in the hopes that she will get the curioity for other men out of her system and she is entitled to that , I am the only man she has ever been with. and I am very proud with that fact. I love her but how do I quit being such a turd to her. I need to unprogram myself and reprogram me into the person I want to be which is the same person she wants me to be. I want to show her I love her not just tell her, I want to show her I care and want to be with her. ARGH This is so cunfusing. I thought I knew her but I have no clue who she is. I ask her out and she says no, how am I supposed to get to know her if she wont let me? Please more help

Dear Officer C. Willden,

You seem to be saying that you love your wife, Jenni, and that you want her back. You are asking her for a date, and she is refusing to go out with you. You think some other guys are in the picture. I do not hear you saying much about what you are doing to increase your own magnetism. What kinds of things is your counselor suggesting?

You say you ask her out, and she refuses. Have you asked her out for lunch? Coffee? Asking her to talk for an hour, and practicing your listening skills.

What can you tell her that you have changed? You say the reason that you actauly cheated was because of hormones. What have you done to get your sex drive better in control? What are you doing now? Many men use porn to masturbate and ejaculate when single, and when their wives are refusing to fully meet their needs. You may not wish to post your answer here, but you need an answer for your wife.

You have been separated for 3 months, and you are going to counseling. How many counseling sessions have you had? What are your objectives in counseling? What type of approach is the counselor using that you have selected? What other options for counseling approaches are available? What is your budget for counseling?

You said that you felt more comfortable with women as friends. You say you have eerased your E-mails. You say you are spending more time with the guys at work. Have you contacted any of the men you know, to see if anyone has some time to be your buddy, or your mentor? Who is available for a mentor? Have you thought of the Masons? What activities can you share with your men buddies to fill the void left by dumping all your women friends?

What self-improvement courses have you thought of?

If your wife won't talk to you, a communications course comes to mind. The Scientology commnuications course is about $110.00, along with free testing to see where else you might improve. If you must work from a distance with your wife, and to achieve better self-control, find out when a Silva Method class, out of Laredo Texas, my have a class in your area. The cost is som $350.00, but you will likely be happy with the gains you get in that class. I improved myself considerably.

It seems your wife will talk to you by phone. Have you been able to talk her about the boys? Have you suggested taking any parenting courses with your wife? My wife and I always got along better after taking a parenting course. Have you gotten any dates that the classes are offered? That is the best "Date" you could have with your wife. Classes usually last 6 weeks, one night a week. Try Churches, Schools, School Board offices, Private schools, Department of Social Services. Get some dates to propose to her, and post back what her answer is.

Best wishes,

Quipper
husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging kids, stil struggling

<small>[ November 14, 2003, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Quipper, Thanks for your information, I suggested going to a parenting calss but she said she doesnt need to go, she isnt a bad mom. I agree with her there, I need to learn how to have more patience with my kids and I wish she would be willing to go. I said somethings yesterday that I shouldnt have, now she things that I want a divorce which I dont. There are guys in the picture for her, she says that they are friends and I believe her. But I still wonder if there is a sexual/physical attraction there. That is a question that I want to know the answer to but on the other hand I dont want to know. I have been to one session with the counsellor and have decided that I will go to the same counsellor as my wife. My appointment is a month out though and I dont know what to do until then. I have ordered a book on tape called his needs/her needs but it hasnt arrived yet. I have also been talking to as many Guy friends as I can, trying to hang out with them but I dont want to interfeer with their relationships. My wife syas that she is uncomfortable around me and neither one of us feels like we can joke with each other, how do I also fix this. She stated that she feels like she needs to walk behind me, not say anything when I'm with my friends. I didnt know she felt this way. Man I have a lot of work to do and want to do it but I am the only one working on it right now. I'm getting frustrated. We had an incredible day two days ago though, I didnt look at it as a sign of hope and she said that it was. She stated that I had made a deposit in the love bank. I asked her if I was out of the negative yet and she didnt reply. man I am getting so down about this, what do I do next??????

Dear Officer C. Wilden,

Even though your wife has said NO to the parenting classes, and she is a good mom, what is important is that the parents work togetrher.

What are you trying to encourage for each child?

If you feel that your wife got the wrong idea aboud divorce from you words, write her a note or an E-mail.

Let your wife say "No" every day, that a new parenting class is starting. Get a list of all the parenting class starting dates, days time instructors. Ordinarily, the classes are inexpensive. Just ask her for each one. The instructor may offer to accept her call to explain why it is important for both of you to take the class. Even if she won't go, you will have something to talk about, if you take the classes yourself.

I am working on reading Patterson, 1987, on Adolescents, 2 volumes, $35.00, 1-541-343-4433.

Under Divorcing/Divorced, I posted to WiishingI WereHome, 31308, similar:

Your wife will go noplace with you alone. But she will talk to you on the phone.

So essentially you have joint custody of the children, and no child support has been ordered or alimony set.

I have not read all your posts. I usually read a little, get some ideas and post, then get told where I am wrong, and post again.

There are many types of counselors, and some counselors are better for some different types of marriages. My wife was upset for several days after each of our counseling sessions, even with good therapists.

If your wife will talk to you on the phone, you have sufficient communication to get the
job done, if you have sufficient skills.

You want your wife to read. I suggest you revise your goal. I suggest that you figure out what series of questions to ask her, so that you will lead her to the truth, that you wish her to see.

I do not see any lists of questions leading to reconciliaton concepts. You should at least have a list of questions about how best to ineract with the kids. Get any parenting book, make a list of questions. I am currently working on Paterson, 1987, for Adolescents, 2 Vol. #35.00, 1-541-343-4433.

Here are some ideas on communicating with your wife.

I have taken the Dale Carnegie course
($1600.00), the Silva Mehtod ($350.00), and the Scientology Commmunications Course ($110.00). I have taken the Parent Effectiveness Training Course, and two other parenting courses. I have the Grades 0 to 4 Scientolgy Grade Charts of counseling questions, 4 volumes, ($80.00 apiece). I have taken Legal Negotiation seminars, ($250.00)

If I am having trouble communicating with my wife, I first think to blame her, but then I realize I could probably do better, and I look to upgrading my communication skills. I look over my books, and make a list of questions to try out to get things going. I try to avoid calling up other women for my communications needs.

There are a number of communication drills, or role playing skits. List the ages of your kids, and what is going on with each one.

Correct my misunderstandings


What are your list of questions for W?

Keep up your spirits.

Quipper
Husband of 28 years, raised 2 challenging children, still struggling

<small>[ November 14, 2003, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: Quipper ]</small>

Hello Cwilden. I was just wondering how things are going for you.......hope all is well......let us know how you are......etc.
cleogirl

I read your wifes post, you both sound like you are confused and just need time. What is her idea about this? also what if she was to say lets work on things? do you still want that or have you given up? It sounds like she wants it but just scared.