Dear Mina29,<BR>Obviously this person is not dealing with a difficult OW who is trying to manipulate, control, and steal her husband while using the OC in the middle--if she were, she would not be so insensitive to your pain and what others in your situation are going through.<P>IMHO, it takes sick and twisted to call hurting people sick and twisted.<p>[This message has been edited by BINthereDUNthat (edited July 27, 2001).]

Somebody seems to be getting so bent they cant keep things straight its [censored]. <BR> BTDT you have this one figured out she or he is very sick a very sad human being. This is the same nut we have been dealing with for some time now. It most likly is the same one that started the thread for the children she likes to talk to herself.<BR> with love flowerseed<P><p>[This message has been edited by flowerseed (edited July 27, 2001).]

Listen, I understand that when someone stands up for what is right, they get bashed. But that's ok. It amazes me. When someone doesn't agree with your immoral actions you automatically think they are someone else. Is it so hard to believe someone DISAGREES with you. You women rant and rave to each other because you're all doing the same thing. It's your little safe haven. You can say whatever you want about me, it doesn't hurt me in the least. You are all living a lie. My H sees his child on Saturday and while I don't want to be there, I know it's the right thing to do. His OW is a fat, ugly, lowclass scumbag and sometimes I feel I may tell him to go to her, she's more his speed. But for now, I will wait it out and see what happens. I'll see if he can prove what he is made of. You can attack all you want if it somehow makes you feel better about what you are doing. Sometimes standing up for what is right makes one very unpopular but that doesn't bother me a bit.

Nice try, Suzi, but it's not going to work. You're no more married with OC issues than I am a virgin and... I have a three kids. <P><BR>

OOOOPPSSS!!!! I think that what Bonniebb doesn't realize is that if her H went to a fat, ugly woman once, it could happen again. Especially when they have your good wishes, since you decide not to be involved! By you letting your H go to OW's house alone, you are just tempting history to repeat itself. If, in fact, you are who you say you are. I tend to agree with everyone else here, who suspects you are a "wolf in dirty sheeps clothing"! See, there are pleanty of women here who don't agree with eachother, but still support eachother. Because......They DO NOT try to force their opinions down anyone elses throats!!!!!! You calling anyone immoral for their support when the H chooses not to have contact is so very wrong!!!!!! I believe that someone previously, or maybe in another thread, stated that the H chosing not to see his child is just like a mother who gives her child up for adoption. These men are still supporting the child(ren) through CS, which is what all that MOST of these OW wanted in the first place. And those OW that want to have H visit the OC are just trying to hang on to the MM!!! I think THAT is immoral, and the wives here are doing what the bible says, in obeying their H's and the H's are showing their love by not seeing a child that causes their W so much pain!!!!! The two most innocent parties in these situations are the child and the wives and children from the MARRIAGE!!!! Believe it or not, in a way, I was placed in the position that the H's have been placed. Yes, I chose not to use protection, but the XOM in our case was trying to get me pregnant!! He would even ask if I thought that my H would divorce me if I got pregnant. He was trying to break me and my H apart. Well, it didn't work, and my H and I are working on being closer than we have ever been!!!! If it's immoral to keep the bio-father from the child, then I gleefully claim to be an immoral woman! I never want contact between my baby and the XOM, cause he is just like these coniving B!#@$&$ that the women here have to deal with!!<P>So, before you claim to be so HOLY, look in the mirror and recognize your sins first! Not to upset anyone, but "Ye who is without sin cast the first stone"!!!! The women here are here to help and be helped, not judged for their choices. Now, if you want to help or be helped without being judged, don't judge them first! I could very well be ousted for being an OW, but I came here for help, and I respect everyones choices, be they visitation or not! If you can't respect that, then don't expect to be respected back!!!<P>Tigger

I saw this quote many years ago and it has always stuck in my mind. <P>"The best thing a father can do for his children is to love their mother."<P>Men and women are biologically different. As women, we are the ones "in charge" of childbirth, pregnancy and raising our young. This is a biological fact. If you want the father of your children to stay and take care of what he helped create, having a child outside of marriage is definately a no-go. You are either using your child to trap the man or you feel this child will give you the love that is missing in your life. I know there is a select few women that have children on their own because they are in a place where they are financially, emotionally and physically able to be totally responsible for the child.<P>We are at a place in history where, as responsible humans, we are able to choose if our sexual acts lead to a child. Men have not been given the same right. People make mistakes. Affairs are huge mistakes. So, the WS, BS and OC should pay for that crime for the rest of their lives? NO! The OW is the one making the final decision and she should take the responsibility for that decision. If the OW is not willing to takes on the responsibility 100%, the child should be placed in a 2-parent home where all parties involved are willing to take that responsibility.

NO NO NO NO NO. Men have, have always had and WILL always have complete and total control over in whom, in what and where they insert their beloved penis!!! And they will FOREVER be held responsible for this act. A group of women like you, desperately trying to look past his total free choice to engage in sexual intercourse with someone else, will never change that. It's the law and it's the law for a reason. I HARDLY think a man who was RAPED by a woman would be help responsible for that child. Your husbands were NOT raped. They made a FREE choice to engage in a behavior that risked producing a child. If that was a risk they didn't want to take, they should not have had sex. That's why the law is what it is. It will never change. PLEASE, stop trying to make excuses for your husbands.

Tigger<BR>If I have to "let" my H go to OW house to see his child and if I have to worry that'll be with her again, I don't have much of a marriage now do I? I wouldn't have any business being married if I lived that way? I have no idea if H will cheat again. But my not "allowing" him to go isn't gonna fix our marriage now is it? And I am not going to let his stinking affair and our marital problems get in the way of a child haivng a father! If he goes back to OW, he would have whether I allowed him to or not. If I have to monitor my husband, he's not really a husband now is he and I really have no reason to be married to him. It doesn't seem to me like you are dealing with the actual marital issus at all. If you and your H are really in recovery, and you really have forgiven him, the OC and the OW should not be a threat to you. I don't know how it will pan out for me, but the point is, why should this child pay for my insecurities, his fahter's lies and his mother's selfishness. Unlike you, I'm willing to see if my marriage can REALLY stand up to the reality of what happened. You're just trying to solve this by trying to make the affair and the OC go away and it won't work.

OOOOPPPPSSS AGAIN!!!!!!!!<P>Re-read, with your eyes OPEN this time!!!! I am the one who got pregnant!!!!!!! My H is the one raising the baby as OURS!!!!!!!! I even stated that I could be counted as the OW here, but have been accepted because we ARE working on our marriage, and we HAVE NOT put the A aside, we deal with it on a day to day basis. I was not telling you to deny your H access to his child, just that you should be involved as well! Not so much as being a parent to this child, but you don't tell a toddler not to touch something like a hot stove, then leave that toddler ALONE with the hot stove. You remove the temptation!!!!!!!! We are only human, and we can be tempted! The last thing I would want to happen is to have to be in these other women's situations, and do as you supposedly are doing, and let my H go on his own, and have that temptation pop up again! Doesn't God tell us to avoid temptation? Then why PUSH your H back into a situation where he is alone w/OW AGAIN?!?!?!<P>Oh, and to your question of why be that way, watching your H's every move, and that not being a marriage. Well, you have to start somewhere when you rebuild a marriage, and in a situation like this, it starts with the trust. That needs to be rebuilt as well. You start out small,ie...being the point of contact, going with for the visitation...,then you get to the bigger trust issues, ie...visitation w/out you or a 3rd party involved. If you can't even try to see that that is what these women are doing, then just go away!!!!!<P>Like I said, look in the mirror first. I have, and have been forgiven not only by my H, but by these women here who have so graciously accepted me for who I am, someone who wants to help and who needs help myself. I don't put myself in a tempting situation, I do not put my H in a tempting situation, and he doesn't put me in a tempting situation. If you avoid the temptation, you won't be tempted. Do you get what I am saying???? <P>Again, re-read my earlier post, cause you have got me totally wrong!!!!!!!!!!!<P>Tigger

BonnB<P>I thought you were not going to argue with us grown women....