This is scary! I have never encountered a more backward group of women in my life. Are ANY of you upset with your husbands? You are here on a campaign for his "rights" What is wrong with you? You are so focused on what the OW did to him and to you? HELLO???? Did someone force your husband's penis into her vagina? It is women like you who set us so far back! And to the nutcases accusing me of being an OW....is that really the best you can come up with? Come on now ladies. Am i the only one who thinks this nightmare was caused by my husband? I can't believe you are here on a campaign for his reproductive rights! It's got to be the funniest thing I've ever heard of. It's priceless!

Ok, what of this....what if we had some sort of paper that had to be signed and notarized by both parties having sex, that says if a preg, does occur both parties will be responsible. This would probably stop a lot of one-night stands or start up a 24 hour notary service. In all seriousness it would make woman think twice before having sex with a man whom they are not in a real relationship with. If there is no paper guess who has all the decisions...abortion, adoption, or raising the child alone. That way both parties have rights. If there is a paper and he changes his mind later well tough stuff buddy.<P>Just a suggestion...<BR>bw

I mean be serious for a moment - do you honestly see your husbands as a "victim" in this situation? How can you say that? What was his penis doing out of his pants? Does he not know that's how babies are made? Jeez, when I look at my H the LAST thing I see is a victim. And no, I don't see him as stupid either. He KNEW exactly what he was doing. He knew the risk of sex. Let's see, if your husbands had caught an STD, should they be able to sue for that too???? Honest to God ladies, what in the world ever happened to personal responsibility? This is such liberal bolony. No one wants to just take responsibility. Everyone's looking for an excuse and a way out. It's become the American way.

bonniebb ,<BR>******Honest to God ladies, what in the world ever happened to personal responsibility******<BR>Bingo !! You just made my point !!!!!!!!<BR>Or do you believe that only the man has "responsiblity" and the poor little woman is too dumb or helpless to be held accountable for her decisions ?<BR>Or maybe you believe the man is too stupid too make a decision so it is only right that he must live with whatever decision the woman makes.<P>jtigger<P>sorry ladies, I know I'm not following my own advice but good Lord !! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!!<P>[This message has been edited by Jtigger (edited July 27, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by Jtigger (edited July 27, 2001).]

See, Suzi, this is where you get confused. <P>The issue JTigger brought up has nothing to do with our husbands. Oh sure, you would like to think so, but really, it has nothing to do with men, women and OC's. What it's all about, Dr. Laura, is EQUALITY, women taking responsibility, THE SAME responsibility men have taken for years. <P>You scream and scream about men who impregnant women to "Do what is right". Well, let me tell you ONCE again what I think is right. If a single woman sleeps with a married man, and gets pregnant, and the WIFE is willing, I think it would be extremely advantagous for the child to live with the married couple, giving FULL CUSTODY to the father his wife and make the other woman pay the support and visit on weekends. If you balk, then you're not for what's right nor what is equal, but instead are a hypocrite. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Couple_of_Reasons (edited July 27, 2001).]

Couple_of_Reasons, thats just what we wanted to do in the beginning. (for the child to live with the married couple, giving FULL CUSTODY to the father his wife and make the other woman pay the support and visit on weekends) but then reality struck knowing that it just dont work that way. We decided it best to just walk away. with love flowerseed

Ladies, Ladies,<P>But we digress....you realize it is not fair to play mind games with the unequipped, do you not?<P>Back to the point at hand, would it then be totally fair if there had to be a legal binding contract between two people to agree to parenting? Then you could really say they both knew what they were getting into and if they didnt they should not have signed.<BR>

Broken wings,<BR>At this time it would not hold up in court . The courts view is the rights of the children supersede the rights of the parent. No parent can sign away the rights of the child, such as signing away cs or parental obligations.<BR>With that being said, H requested that he be allowed to terminate his parental rights. He was informed only the mother could request that.<P>Jtigger

+++d+don't like the ow?[QUOTE]Originally posted by Couple_of_Reasons:<BR>[B]Here's another thought ..<P>The husband and wife get full custody of the OC while the other woman visits the child every other weekend and pays child support, medical costs and day care expenses. Wow. What a twist huh? <BR> <BR> Why? Because we as ws don't like the ow? I hate the ow but she is the oc's mother and i am onw who truely believe unless there are MAJOR problems children belong with their mother. i am really starting to LOVE the oc and i love being the stepmom but i will NEVER be their mom.<P>

I was in the kitchen washing dishes and I had a thought that started to trouble me and wanted to share.<P>The courts have for many years recognized that a woman has the ultimate say in whether or not sex is consentual. If she so deems the act of sex can be classified as rape. In cases where women have said, "no", but their actions spoke differently, men have been convicted of rape.<P>So why I wonder, if the court recognizes the woman is the last word on whether or not sex is mutually consentual or rape, do they not recognize that a woman who allows herself to have sex is the last word on whether or not she "allows" her self to be impregnated. <P>She is expected to have the power and rights to allow her self to have sex, but is not expected to have the power and rights to "allow" her self to not be impregnated? <P>Just a thought... any feedback????<P><BR>oh, yeah, one more question... what happened to a male birth control pill. I think there's a conspiracy out to keep from inventing such a drug. Probably headed up by the OW's Union! <P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

zebrababy,<BR>Very good point.<P>Jtigger

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by whatif?:<BR><B> <BR> Why? Because we as ws don't like the ow? I hate the ow but she is the oc's mother and i am onw who truely believe unless there are MAJOR problems children belong with their mother. i am really starting to LOVE the oc and i love being the stepmom but i will NEVER be their mom.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, it truly doesn't have anything to do with liking or not liking the other woman. However, what's to say this father couldn't be more of a positive role in this child's life? Why do we have to deem mothers bad and have horrible things done to our children before we consider giving custody to the father? Who says mothers are the better parent? Because they went through labor? I hardly think so. <P>Whatif, nationwide statistics show that 60 percent of the cases of child abuse list the MOTHER as the abuser, not the father. Sixty percent, Whatif. So, you're telling me these fathers must WAIT until the mother causes such serious and irreversable harm to a child before we even consider POSSIBLY giving the father a fair shake at raising his own child? <P>There are NO stats which say mothers are the better parent. THere are NO stats which say fathers can't be an even better parent. It's all preconceived notion that mothers are the beginning and end of children. Yes, we carry them, we labor for them, but sometimes, Whatif, we certainly aren't always GOOD to them. As I said, <B>sixty percent of the reported cases of child abuse, and neglect lists the mother as the perpetrator. </B> <P>And what do YOU consider "major"? Drugs? Prostitution? Physical abuse? Medical and Educational Neglect? Sexual abuse by a boyfriend or even the mother herself? If you consider these bad, I'm glad, but the courts often DO NOT. I once spoke with a father whose 6 year old son had 18 cavities. Six year olds only have about 20 teeth at this age. Is that awful enough for you? DO you know what that poor little kid had to go through? Do you also know his father spent nearly 20 grand fighting to get custody of this child and the courts have YET to grant him custody MAINLY because of the very preconceived notion YOU have about "children should be with their mothers" even if it leaves devastating marks on a child for his/her entire life. <P>One statistic we DO have about fathers is, children who have a constant father figure in their life fair much better than children who don't. It can be a natural father or one who chooses to act as father. Since this is the case, wouldn't it seem more appropriate to take on the attitude that since children fair better, children shouldn't just "BE" with their mothers simply because we carry the uterus? <P>JMHO,<BR>CoR<P><p>[This message has been edited by Couple_of_Reasons (edited July 27, 2001).]

COR, <BR> I agree on some level with you, if the father is a better parent than let him have the4 primary custody over the mother. i was really trying to get across that the oc should not just be givin to the father because he is married and the ow is not. Who is to say the father stays marries? The father is just as guilty and should not just get oc. Our ow for the most part is a good mom to the oc, she is a pian in the ars to me but a good mom. I have worked with enough abused children to know that mothers can be and often are worse abuswers than men. I don't know i just feel if the ow wants to raise the oc and is a good mother she shouldn't be asked to give the oc to the father and the bs because they are married. i was a single mom for a while so i am sure t6hat is why I feel that way. I could have given my first up for adoption which is what many of you suggest the ow should do, no i wasn't a ow i was a dumb teenager, but who is to say the child will always be raised by a mrried copule? Couples that adopt do divorce and single mom can get married. i think it should all be looked at on a individual basis. look at cd's case. ovioulsly the oc is being raised by a unfit mother who is causeing great pychological harm to the oc. In her case i believe the oc would be much better off bei9ng raised primarily by c and her husband.

sorry double hit key

By the way, the Glory B gals thought this topic was a doozy. They had posted the original letter in all its glory on Friday. It was funny (as in sad) to see the different attitudes amongst the ow. You can sure tell which ow were more than happy to get knocked up by their mm and which ow had their heads screwed on right.

Where on glory b ?<BR>I would love to read their comments.<BR>

You guys keep coming back to the same argument.....but, but, but, the OW is responsible too. Well who ever argued that? How is the OW NOT taking responsibility? Is she not raising the child and paying her share of support? No one is asking your H to do more then his fair share. Stop trying to make him the victim! He isn't the victim here, YOU are and the OC is in case you have forgotten!

Jtigger,<P>It was on Friday's board and you know how quick things drop off on there. Those gals either have much more time or need much more support. I don't know. <P>Actually, their responses were kind of like on here. Some ow we incredibly upset that this would even be said. They seem to blame everything on the man. Other OW said they agree with this and it is the responsibility of the woman for her own reproductive rights. It was about 50/50 - probably the same ones that were upset by this would be the same ones to get pregnant (on purpose or accident) and keep the child while demanding rights for their child and themselves. It is funny how they demand rights for their children, but when the greater good for the child would have been adoption, they forget about the rights of the children to have the best life possible. Instead, they are quite selfish and want to keep their child and the rights that come with that child.<P>

What's a glory B gal???<P>z.<P>------------------<BR>Zebra Baby ...<P>Lord, give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

glory b is a board for ow's.<P>jtigger