I have been able to get some counseling and have done a lot of reading and soul searching lately and have come up with what will work for me. I've also been able to talk with my W about things. She has told the OM and he said that he wants to be involved with the Cs life but I don't think I could deal with that. And I don't think he realizes that means he'll have to admit to the military he commited adultery. He is still in the military and will be going to California, W is in Florida, so there will be a lot of distance. W says she doesn't want anything to do with him but also can't deny him the right to visit the C. That's fine with me because I have worked out what I am willing to do (and told her) and I realize that she needs to do what works for her. And if that means allow OM to visit OC then that means I will have to move on because that doesn't work for me. <P>She has said she wants to work things out with us but she doesn't think she can because of OC. She is still trying to decide what she wants to do. She has even said that she was thinking of getting an abortion. <P>So I am in a holding pattern now waiting for her to decide. And in the meantime I will continue to do the things that have been working for me up to this point and deal with whatever she decides when the time comes.

M_E,<P>I think that you are doing the right thing about not jumping into anything major right now. There are a couple things for your W to consider right now. Maybe she should point out to OM that if he wants to be involved in the C's life, he will have to admit to his command that he had the A, and that could ruin his military career. She also needs to think long and hard about an abortion. She could end up putting herself into more emotional pain than she realizes.<P>You said that you have done a lot of reading, has that included the concepts here with the Plan A/B? It sounds as if you are doing Plan A right now, just keep letting her know how much you do love her and are willing to work on things to a point. <P>You may also look into the FL laws on paternity. You may still want to see about protecting yourself, since you can't be with your W right now. I know that you did say something about having to wait 6 mos for any divorce proceedings. If you do choose to do something like that, you may want to explain to your W that you do love her and want to work things out, but to keep yourself from any future heartache, it would be best to go that route for now. It doesn't mean that you can't work on your relationship, but that could buffer any pain caused by this pregnancy, since your relationship is on shaky ground right now. That way, if your relationship does work out, and you are still willing to raise OC as your own child, you can adopt it after you have worked those things out. I would discuss it with your W, but explain that it is for you both, not just protecting yourself. This way, she would be "free" to make whatever decision she feels she should make.<P>I don't know if any of this helped, but I had to give it my best shot.<P>Tigger

Tigger,<BR> I pointed out the fact that in order to have anything to do with the OC the OM would have to admit to his command and a court that he was indeed the father, to my W. I don't think she really thought about or realized that fact. She would like for him to just move on but she still feels he has the right to visit OC his he so chooses. I feel the same but they both need to realize what that entails. <P>I really don't think she will get an abortion. I think she said it out of frustration and fear on her part. Like you said she would cause herself more pain and anguish, especially after her many miscarriages. I know how much the child means to her and I'm even willing to not be in her life if that means she can keep the child.<P>I can tell she is torn right now between how much she loves me and wants to work things out and how obligated she feels to OM to allow him to visit OC. She says she can't ask me to stay with her if OM insists on visitation because she knows how hard that would be for me. She would rather be alone than put me through that. <P>I have read the Plan A/B concepts and even ordered the book (but shipment is delayed due to world events). I tell her how much she means to me and how much I love her. I have also told her that I am willing to work on things to a certain point. Right now it is up to her on what to do. <P>I have researched the paternity laws in FL to include, talking with a lawyer specializing in these types of cases, reading laws and statutes, as well as getting some good advice from others on this board (K and Bystander in particular).<P>Really I feel pretty solid where I am at now, because I think I have a plan to follow no matter what course this takes. I also realize that things will change from day to day and I am ready to deal with that.<P>I still have a lot of issues to work out with myself and our relationship but I am definitely better off now than four weeks ago. I still have my days and I am still stuggling with trying to get back to a normal daily routine but I'm moving forward. I've realized I can only control two things in my life, my actions and my reactions. I am working on both.

Well I talked to my W the other day and it went pretty good. She said she wants to work on our marriage. Which is great but I am still having to deal with OM wanting to be a part of our life. He insists on wanting to be there for the C but I don't think I can deal with him being in our life at all. I've told W that but she feels if OM wants to be there for the C then he has that right. I guess so but I don't think I can deal with that. How have some of you handled this situation? I'm not sure I've seen where the OM is involved so even advice from some of the BWs out there dealing with OWs would help.<P>Also, I am starting to have some self doubt and second thoughts about getting back together. Is this normal? I wanted so much to try to save our marriage and now that my W is willing I feel like maybe I sold myself short or that she is just trying to use me. It's probably just my hurt and low self-esteem making me think that but I'm scared to make another mistake and end up betrayed again. And with OM wanting to be in our life for the OC, it just makes me feel like that is a high possibility. <P>I thought I'd be overjoyed to hear her say those things but now I can't help over analyzing everything she says looking for some hidden meaning. Is it always going to be like that? I mean if we do stay together will I ever stop second guessing what she says? Will I ever trust her? Can I ever trust her? <P>I'm even more confused now than when I first found out I think.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Also, I am starting to have some self doubt and second thoughts about getting back together. Is this normal? I wanted so much to try to save our marriage and now that my W is willing I feel like maybe I sold myself short or that she is just trying to use me. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, I remember those feelings. They happened about 5 minutes ago. My H and I also do not have children and I could have made a clean break (after 18 years?). (Actually we were in the middle of a very complicated adoption procedure that had involved us being foster parents first. I felt that I couldn't walk away without stranding the children in a Russian orphanage. I think that in the beginning, I stayed for the children. Now I am (usually) glad I stayed.) <P>Once things calmed down and it was apparent that he wasn't going anywhere I started wondering if I had made the right choice. He really took a long time to come out of his depression. <P>Over on the GQII board they talk about a "fog." I don't think that my H was in a fog, i.e., a period of loss and mouring for his lover. I think he was so beat down by the loss of self-esteem and guilt that he couldn't function. For awhile, I felt like the message I was getting was "Yup, I'm a shell of a person. I don't ever plan to get off this couch, go back to work, lead a decent life. If you don't like what is left of me--there's the door." Recovery didn't begin until he stopped taking her phone calls, until he stopped letting her play on his guilt. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Is it always going to be like that? I mean if we do stay together will I ever stop second guessing what she says? Will I ever trust her? Can I ever trust her? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'd say that yes, most of us will probably have *some* doubts the rest of our lives. The Harleys say that "trust" is overrated in most marriages anyway. They content that anyone, given the right set of circumstances, will cheat. (I know I was sorely tempted a few years ago and I didn't cheat even though my needs were us unmet as his were. So I am not sure if I believe that.) It would be foolish on our parts to forget that our spouses have delivered a hideous hurt. We may choose to forgive that hurt, but forgetting is, IMO, beyond human capability. <P>One thing my H and I have not yet worked out is how we would handle things if he became very tempted again. I need to know that we have a plan that includes telling me that he is facing such a challenge. He thinks it couldn't happen and that he has learned his lesson. <P>I feel like I am rambling.<P>MJ<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Mrs. Job (edited September 25, 2001).]

Mrs Job,<BR> You're not rambling. What you said makes good sense. I see that I am going to second guess any decision I make right now. Whether it be stay or go I won't know if I should have chosen the other one. I guess one way to look at it is, I should stay and if I decide later then go. That way I will know how both turned out. <P>As for trust. I guess after going through what we all have we'll never really trust anyone the way we did before anyway. Even in a new relationship I would still have that uneasy feeling, but maybe to a lesser degree. <P>It's just really difficult because staying together means dealing with the betrayal and working through it, moving, changing careers, becoming a father for the first time to a C that's not mine, and possibly dealing with the OM and his family. All that makes the other option look extremely inviting, but I guess as they say anything worth keeping isn't easily attained.

Ok, well it's been one of those days. I've been reading lots of books, talking with W, going to therapy and generally been doing "better" but I had "one of them days" today. I think I am still in the distracted stage where it is difficult to think, remember, or concentrate on things. I thought I was doing better but today while following a friend over to another friends house for lunch, I ended up getting in an accident. A car in front of my friend stopped short and then my friend hit his brakes to stop from hitting the other car but I wasn't so lucky. I ended up rear ending my friend and then pushing him into the other car. Everyone was ok but my car was a banged up pretty good. To top it all off both my friend and I didn't have all of our necessary documents and the italian police didn't take to kindly to that. Luckily an italian friend of ours was able to smooth everything out. I'm just glad no one was hurt and that this happened on one of the smaller back roads where we weren't going too fast. I've been driving around and getting lost because I've been "distracted" thinking about things and then I end up missing a turn or something and today I was just unlucky enough to miss a car stopping in the road. <P>I haven't been too sure about anything lately and I'm really forgetting a lot of things. This was the first accident in my life (been driving for 11 years). I guess on one hand I'm lucky this is the first but on the other I can see how my situation lead to this and I'm worried of what else can happen. <P>Up until today I was doing good and had a really good weekend. Went out with friends dancing and then to a jazz club and generally had a good time, until today's events. Tomorrow the movers are coming by to pack up my house to ship back to the states and I think that sort of got me going. I've moved in with a friend so I don't need any of that stuff. Plus it just reminds me of the past and I haven't even lived in my house since my W left for the states and that's why I'm shipping it back. And I figure I will need to move back if we stay together so might as well get this out of the way now.<P>Anyway, I am going back to the states for a work conference in a few weeks and will be seeing my W for the first time in over a month. I think it will be a bit awkward. We've been talking pretty regular and things seem to be going better but I'm still really conflicted about everything. She told me that she is willing to work on things which is what I thought was what I wanted to hear but that really scared me. Now I don't think I can handle everything that staying together entails. I just really don't know what the heck to do.<P>Going through therapy I am beginning to realize the personal issues that I have that contributed to this A and I don't want to pass those on to the C like I got them from my dad. Right now I'm not even sure I can get past these problems I have. Also, I think it will be too much for me to deal with right now with trying to heal myself, my marriage, raise a C, find a new job, etc. I don't see how others here have the strength to do what I am attempting to. <P>I really admire anyone who has been able to create something beautiful out of such an ugly situation.

Dear M_E, I have read your story. I do not know if I could include an OM just to save my marriage. After all in the future you may have c's of your own and how will you explain om to them?<P>Honey if you love her you must work out an agreement ahead of time.<P>If there is no room for om tell her now. Do not submit to a life of uncertainty if you can't do it.<P>You owe yourself more than that.<P>Om need not be involved. I feel for sure you and W can go on w/o his interference. You will be better off alone to raise baby together. It's the least w can do. Too bad for om....she either wants him or not!<P>To include him in your lives will make things uncomfortable for you.<P>Tell your w your true feelings and back off to see what happens.<P>Sorry about your accident.<P>Hope your move is smooth!<P>Prayers and love!<BR>Debi<BR><P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

I agree. ember

M_E,<P>I went through exactly wht your going through. I got into an accident. After meeting my H for lunch and getting into a disagreement. I called him and told him about the accident he had the nerve to say so your going to blame that on me too. I hung up my cell phone and didn't pick up for an hour. After the 15 call from him I pick up and listen to him apoligize. I had to stop driving on the highway because I couldn't pay attention I was always about to run into someone. I now know every back route to get from my job to my house. It will get better in time. Take it slow and you probably won't have closure until things are settled with your wife. Good luck again. <P>Unsure