Katie,<p>I loved my h, he felt he didn't love me anymore, but i didn't give up and took all the mental abuse for a long time. While i stayed i prayed and changed a big part of me that needed changing. Ultimately, I didn't stay with h because i love to be tortured emotionally, i stayed because what God has joined let NO MAN separate (not husband, not ow, not me). That is my reason.<p>He is not perfect by far, but he has chosen me and confesses that he loves and loved me even when he tried to convince himself that he didn't.
I believe that God's mighty hand can work in any situation where people need help and call on his name. <p>I encourage you to read Romans 1 <p>God Bless,
Julia

Julia,
A question for you. What if he physically or mentally abused your children? Would you stay them?<p>Just a hypothetical.

Katie,
When I replied to your "Would you want to know" post I hadn't read this one. I didn't know where you were coming from. Now I feel compelled to share that your flagrant attitude regarding the sanctity of marriage is the reason most of us are here, hurting. I understand your being in it for your own personal gain, but do you have no regard for the pain you are causing in other peoples lives? Most people here are hurting severely because of actions just like yours, and forgive me, but I don't feel very tolerant of them. I'm sorry to you and others here if I've overstepped etiquette here, but I had to share my sentiments.

BTW, in answer to your question, Why stay?, I don't think that's something you have the capability of understanding having never known the true depth of commitment that comes from actually being "one flesh" with another.

Well said P51! On both posts!!

I've asked Katie Scarlett why she is here, mostly because of how 'flip' her tone sounded on this board...a board where I feel pain is doubly inflicted on BS...<p>Here is her response:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=013669<p>Though with her continued tone...I am still confused...<p>[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: TryingAgain ]</p>

To P51 and other BS,
In all honesty it was never my intension to hurt you guys. I was simply trying to learn from you.<p>I sincerely apologize.<p>Haveing never been married maybe I will never understand what you have been though.

I honestly don't know what "tone" you would have. I am that first to admit that I don't "get" it. That's why I began reading here.<p>How can I show contrition that I don't feel? Like I said, i'm not here to hurt anybody. I'm just here to learn.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>You know what's funny. This much time later I don't know that i'd ever trust a man enough be marry.
It's been TOOOO easy to be deceptive. Plus i'm schooled lots of my girlfriends in the fine art of TOW-hood.<p>Hmmmm, I guess only time will tell. <p><hr></blockquote>

I see.<p>Sorry [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

I'm sure this is of little comfort, but it was never about the W. Honestly I rarely thought about his W. W-hood never meant anything to me. I don't remember where it was that I said it, but truely I was out for me.<p>These are the attitudes that i'm looking at. I can't just snap my fingers and be a differnt person than the one i've been for the past 30 years.<p>Like I said, i'm still learning.

Hi Katie,<p>I have been reading your exchanges with the folks here. I don't usually post in this part of MB, because I am not in the situation of having to deal with an OC. However, I have been reading at this site for almost 3 years. I have seen a lot of comings and goings and have seen some amazing stories.<p>Frankly, I don't think you can understand the answers being given to you, because you don't view marriage as the people here do. You have had a 10 year affair but it wasn't because of a deep emotional attachment as you said, it was because it suited your needs.<p>I can understand part of what you are saying. When I was your age, I wasn't close to getting married and I led a very active batchelor life [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] . I had been raised with a deep sense of what the commitment of marriage meant, but it was a "theoretical" exercise. I mean my parents were married ultimately over 40 years before my father's death. But, it still didn't make too much sense.<p>I have now been married 26 years. I have a completely different view of things. Interestingly, since I came upon this site almost 3 years ago, my view about marriage has changed even more. It has if anything deepened.<p>Frankly, you will find that anyone, although particularly women, that comes here and says they are being physically abused is advised to leave and unless counseling is successful leave the marriage. You will find that Harley himself advises that marriage should end, if there are no children and one of the spouses isn't willing to work on a better relationship. He states he would divorce his W if she had an affair (recall that both of his children are grown and counselors themselves).<p>I think you may be mistaking something here. The people struggling with these issues, can leave the marriage. Biblically, they are permitted to leave, however, marriage particularly one that has existed for years is a subtle thing. I realize that you are not into formal religion, but the Bible incites people to marry and become ONE. This does happen to some degree or another.<p>What you will never understand because you have never become ONE with someone,is the depth of attachment that occurs. When this does occur, you want to keep it if you can, even if the WS is a "jerk". But you can be assured that if the WS won't work on the marriage the divorce will occur. It does in a hugh percentage of marriage.<p>You might ask: If Harley isn't so deadset on saving a marriage why would he have put together the Plan A and the Plan B? <p>My opinion from reading here is that the people that go through this process and ultimately end up divorced seem to recover from the divorce much better. They KNOW they did all they could to maintain the marriage vows and to give the WS a chance to change their mind. In short, they did their best.<p>So Harley's approach in my mind is about saving marriages (many of which can be it turns out) and about having healthier survivors of divorce.<p>I hope you aren't offended, but you really cannot understand some of this until you are there. Given your personal approach to life, I cannot see you ever understanding. Perhaps you will be fortunate or unfortunate (depending on how you view what marriage requires of you) to find someone that strikes you deep in your soul. This person will somehow take the focus off of yourself and put it on them and then you will have an idea.<p>Probably the only thing that I could suggest that would give you the idea is if, God Forbid, your child became fatally ill. You would no doubt do anything you could to try and save him, all the while knowing the odds were not good. It is my sincerest hope that you never know the feeling of your child being in such a situation or your marriage (if it occurs) ever being in such a situation.<p>Hope this has helped.<p>God Bless,<p>JL<p>[ November 16, 2001: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</p>

KS,<p>Is your child father exMM? Just wondering why you would post on this board. Instead of Recovery or EN boards.<p>Unsure

Ya know Katie, there are a lot of caring people who have really took the time to respond to your post. I would just hope that you would hear what these people are trying to share with you. There is more to life than being self-absorbed. I know that because i was there too once. You simply need to start with yourself. Do you like who you are? Are you humble in nature or do you step on people to get where you're going? You wrote something to the affect that you just can't change everything overnight, well, I think you probably can't change overnight but you can start tonight. Many wonderful attributes that make up a woman are detailed in Proverbs 31. Start there. God will do the rest if you ask him and let him. <p>You sound like someone who admits when they've made a mistake and that says a lot about you.<p>God Bless,
Julia<p>PS... in answering your ? about whether i would leave h if he physically abused me... Yes, i would leave, but i would pray for him. I can only say that i would hope God would give me the strength to be patient. In fact He is the one who gives us the strength to leave and He is also the one who gives us the heart to pray.

Thank you JL!!!!

Unsure:<p>No! My xMM is not my child's father.

Julia,<p>I thank you for your caring words. For many years I studied the bible and went to church (3x a week in fact).<p>It's not the place for me.

Maybe the problem isn't that church isn't the place for you, but maybe the church was the wrong one. Church in itself is not God, it isn't the place to go to GET something or get the "good feelings", but in my opinion, church is in your heart, where God is. He is in the words we say, our thoughts, our desires. But He is only in those things that are good. I use to see church as boring until God changed my heart and without me even realizing, I got excited to go worshiip God with other people who love Him. <p>Sometimes i wish i could explain it perfectly what this great God has done in my life and I wish everyone could experience having a relationship that is just AWESOME, but like I told my H, "you will know when you have a relationship with God, it is unmistakable, and your life will never be the same". <p>Church and God may not be the place for you right now, but if God has chosen you for his own, you're heart's desires will change and you will personally witness the love of God. I pray this for you. <p>Julia