CM,<p>You make a strong arguement for giving every child born a DNA test. You post is full of nothing but "I..." You may even have stalled this long enough so that your H will declared the father and responsible for support no matter what happens in your marriage. It is true, some states after a period of time, force the H to support the child even if it isn't his.<p>You are indeed inconsistent, because you have NOT made the OM face up to his responsibility. You decided to let him off the hook because YOU decided to work on the marriage (suggesting it would be embarressing to admit your A and affair to the world), and your H wanted to work on the marriage. But, he doesn't know what the marriage is. You have kept that from him.<p>As for the right to choose, with choice comes responsibility and that part of the equation is missing from the laws these days. Don't hide behind it and then say that if the mother loves the child she should have it. That logic is what led to such child abuse years ago. It is why CPS can come in and take a child from a home. THe child was loved,but it was neglected, abused, not fed properly, exposed to drugs, alcohol,etc.<p>Most of the mothers that exposed their children to such a life loved their children. <p>I am not saying you, Justine or anyone else posting here has done this. I am saying the "logic" of it, doesn't mean that the childs best interest is guarenteed in a mother's love. It should be so for a mother and a father, but it isn't.<p>Some things to think about. Oh! do take K's advice CM. He has been where your is going. And he is definitely right about counseling before you tell your H.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by gemini1:
<strong>If he was good enough to have sex with, and admirable enough to tell you to keep the oc, then why not let him in oc's life?
You're kidding yourself, CM.<p>And continuing to lie to who should be the person you trust most in life... your H.<p>A little scared perhaps?<p>You should be.
I was friends with ow/and her H. We did things as couples.
When her H found out, he fled the state leaving her and their 3 kids. Out of humiliation.<p>So I can hate her. She means no more to me than her oc. She pulls antic after antic and is a sore loser.<p>On the other hand, H is remorseful. Says over and over how he wishes he could erase those months of his life.
Ow in not a bit sorry and for sure thought a baby would tie them together in one way or another for life.<p>You have a lot to learn of relationships and honesty. My H's dishonesty is passed history.
We have recommitted our lives to each other.
BTW, you can't fake the kind of remorse H has. Well maybe you can, but as his wife, I know when he's telling the truth. <p>He strayed a while, and came back.
Ow however in our case won't give up the ship. Too bad. I feel nothing toward her but animosity, as does H.<p>Alone with 4 kids from perhaps 3 fathers. Yea, that's attractive.....<p>No matter what,she now looks like what she is...
Miserable.<p>Into each life a little rain must fall and it makes us who we are.<p>So CM, go now and tell your H what you've done....go on....or go get that great man who fathered your oc and see how he feels now.<p>Momof5 where do you find the time to sleep w/MM and your H and mother your kids?
FYI Ow wrote and told me of all the where's and times, but H already answered my q's. So she told me nothing new.
She did that to attempt to have me catch H lying.To anger me enogh to let him go. Guess what?<p>H said in the beginning that even if I left he'd never be w/someone like her.
It's just that all you women think you're entitled to something just for sleeping with BS husbands.
Face it, when the affair is ending desperate woman take desperate measures and it usually backfires and ruins many lives for many months.
Then when MM/W are renewing things a lot of OW drag things on and on not wanting to face reality. They had a baby and father doesn't want it.
All situations are different. I tried to see oc but Ow went nuts because my H didn't do the calling.....<p>So weary of all of this......<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>My so bitter Gemini. You were betrayed by 2 people who were close to you. I can understand that. I feel sorry for you because if you can feel nothing more for child than OW, you will continue to be miserable the rest of your days. That child is your H child. If you love him, well, I wonder if you love him really. You seem to bitter to love him.
I do agree, desperate women (and men alike) take desperate measures. Such as WS crying the apologies. He is just as desperate as she is, but for different things. However, when my A ended, I did the ending. OM and I had a period of time when it was hard to come to grips with, but neither of did anything "desperate". Please! I think the fathers who don't want their children becasue they are dodging responsibility are as disqusting as the BS who support that decision, chich seems to feed your insecurities.<p>I will tell my H when I am ready to reveal my son's biology Gemini. Not because I need H to take care of me. Not because I need some man's money to support me. OM has already offered that and I turned him down. My son is my concern here and I will do what I feel is best for his well being. The great man who fathered my son is still around if I want him but I chose to rebuild my M. You are very bitter Gemini but you don't bother me any. Believe me, your husband and all of us wS, we can fake alot when it comes to keeping spouses in the dark. Believe what you want. I think your husband and alot of men like him, want to easy way out now that they're faced with owning up to responsibility. Especially when money is at stake! Then other posts suggest men who want to be apart of childs life but poor insecure BS can't handle it. If you're going to stay in M, get over it! You are an adult for god sake!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by mom of five:
<strong>I have been a BS and I know all the emotions and hate that goes with it. An I have learned men tell the W only what he has to to get by, things such as it was only sex, and I only did it once, and she didnt tell me she could get pregnant. Well even if she told him she couldnt produce a child, he knew the risk and he made the choice, I didnt lie or cheat to get pregnant.
Infact OM told me he had a vasectomy and could not have children and refused to wear a condom after so many years, so I let him, guess what that was my fault, I believed him. Now I have a beautiful baby to prove that I made a mistake. except, now we think of her as a blessing. But I was married so this time my husband is also a betrayed spouse, should he hate this child that grew in side me, from your standards I GUESS, BUT HE FEELS NO HATE FOR HER. He loves her. He loves all our children. I remember blaming the other women, we dont want to take it out on our spouses, because we want to stay with them, so blame every one else. EVER think what stories he told to get her to be with him, how long he pursued her, think its always the OW who chases. I can say No way it isnt. I think you enable your husband to not take responsibility, and what do we teach our sons about life and our responsibility. We hope to teach them abstenence. But if that doesnt happen and they learn from what their fathers have done. What did they learn? They learned its ok to cheat on their wife, and get someone preganant because you dont have to do a darn thing about it. Telling my kids what happened and why they have a sisiter was hard, just about killed me, but we were tired of lies and they have to be taught we make mistakes, but try to correct them.
I dont see how you can fix a marriage and have so much hate and anger, seems to be about money mostly, some think money is an act of revenge, NO! I say money is going to the OW because they deserve some help and if the man who was with her emotionaly and physically can not do that, then she deserves any help she can get, after all she is facing up to her responsibilities.
I dont think a man running from a child he produced, says much of any thing for him, except shame on him. No one is saying you arnt hurting, but I see alot of women saying the OW did this and that, well guess what the husband did it to. I can tell you when found out, the story he told wife wasnt close tot he truth about when how many times how long, he made up what ever he could get away with. we should be helping each other here instead of bashing each other. This is a debate, that will go on through out time. I cant tell you the number of times, I said, it isnt you I dont trust, its those women, haha what a joke, no one held a gun to his head.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks Momof5, I have done some bashing here too, but it's like complete defense mode right now; all because I gave Justine advice that I truly believe based on my experiences. The BS's can't deal with it.
You have said it well and you are completely right.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Just Learning:
[QB]CM,<p>"You make a strong arguement for giving every child born a DNA test. You post is full of nothing but "I...It is true, some states after a period of time, force the H to support the child even if it isn't his."<p>Imagine what would be uncovered then. I can only speak for myself, thus the I statements. No, H can't be declared responsible yet, I checked into that. <p>You are indeed inconsistent, because you have NOT made the OM face up to his responsibility. You decided to let him off the hook because YOU decided to work on the marriage (suggesting it would be embarressing to admit your A and affair to the world), and your H wanted to work on the marriage. But, he doesn't know what the marriage is. You have kept that from him.<p>I am not inconsistent. My belief is this: if the child is raised by parents who love him (and soon my H will know truth) then going after support from EX-lover is not always in the best interest of the child. Having the biological father in the picture is not always in the best interest of the child. I believe it is the right of the mother raising the child to decide. My ex-om didn't challenge me too much but if he did, I'm sure he has rights too as the natural father. I soppose you are right, I probably did let him off the hook so to speak but it was best for my M and son. I do know my H well and I believe that when he finds out, he'll be glad that OM isn't in picture. I'll let you all know if I'm wrong on that. I have in fact found a counselor and have begun discussing it. <p>A"s for the right to choose, with choice comes responsibility and that part of the equation is missing from the laws these days. Don't hide behind it and then say that if the mother loves the child she should have it. That logic is what led to such child abuse years ago. It is why CPS can come in and take a child from a home. THe child was loved,but it was neglected, abused, not fed properly, exposed to drugs, alcohol,etc."<p>Of course if someone is UNFIT they shouldn't be raising children, or have pets for that matter! But that isn't what we are talking about here. We can't establish whether Justine is fit. For this matter, I presume that she is. I love my son and it IS my right to raise him, regardless of his paternity. Neglect and abuse aren't in the mix here. I believe if she loves the child then the nature of his conception doesn't matter as much as loving him and being entrusted to rear him to be a happy, healthy, responsible, contributing member of our society. Love is a pre-req. for parenting. If a WS can't love a child for whatever reason, they can still pay $ to the mother to help support the child.

Gem,
I guess nasty comments make you feel better and thats ok, but I am curious why can your husband be forgiven for making a mistake but I should not be. I was seperated for two years from my husband because he was having an affair. and abusive, he worked on his self and I am working on my self and my marriage, and we have lots of time for children, at the time, this man, was there for my children as well, when my husband was too busy drinking. I worked with other man, and had all the same days off, if you must know, If your husband is entittled to make a mistake, did it occur to you OW make mistakes as well.
I dont think being a BS makes you a better parent or more capable, Do you think your husband is a lousy father just because he had an A, I was hurting and OM saw this and moved on it, thats how it started, I was an idiot he met every need I had, and I am not speaking of sex.
I dont think any one can heal with so much hate for people, listen to yourselves, you think if you criticise me as a parent that makes me less of a person, or makes your situation better. I love my children all of them, as does my husband. I dont continue the affair, although I guess I could, but I want something better for myself and my family.
But I believe that his family and my family just want D to be happy and loved, so whats wrong with making it work. since we are the adults.

Justine,
we havent heard from you since this started, funny how we all get so impassioned over someone we dont know. I wish you luck and God bless, He will guide you to do what is right for your family.
Hang in there, and be strong and only do what is best for you and your two children. You will be fine, use what ever you have available to you, I dont know what states offer, but they can help and I am sure there are places to call and get support. Church is a good place to start.
Good luckJUSTINE

<singing> can yooouuuu feel the love tonightttt?<p>okie doke...just a comment from the peanut gallery on a comment about the OW having a baby would tie them together for life. Well IMO it kinda does, maybe not in a physical sense.I also understand reasons for no contact...but what I can't see is at one point or another is a man not wondering about a child he fathered, so the OC may be out of site..but I seriously doubt out of mind.
I guess my opinions are just to strong on owning up to one's responsibilities.<p>What a sad place we're all in.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I dont continue the affair, although I guess I could, but I want something better for myself and my family. <hr></blockquote><p>Bravo!!!!<p>So you see? It wasn't what you thought it was MO5.<p>That's why I forgive H. It wasn't much to think about either. A mess of lies and a secret.<p>You ,I don't owe anything to. Nasty comments because I would never dream of boinking another. I respect my body too much.<p>DocsGirl, Seriously doubt one can forget something as big as this.<p>However thinking and doing are two different things eh?<p>As for OW.....she's so far in the past. Really was no big deal, maybe at the time, but when reality sets in OHHHHHHHHH.....<p>So now all you adulterers.....see ya.....I really don't care for your analogy of my situation.<p>But you all sing the same song.... B-O-R-I-N-G,,,YAWN,,,,,

Because Cmiranda and Momof5 are OW's, they have entirely different points of view than we do here at MARRIAGE BUILDERS. Instead of offering constructive advice, understanding and logical solutions, they make endless excuses for themselves and constantly hurl disrespectful judgments and come off sounding like junior high teeny-boppers with the name calling. They constantly call any Betrayed Spouse in pain "bitter" and "full of hate", not knowing the entire story or the history of the members here. They are both very new members and have not taken the time to read archived stories or followed member's history or noted the amazing spiritual growth and healing. Instead, they say preposterous things and make irrational judgments and are completely intolerant of our points of view. <p>While I believe my points of view are right for me, and I certainly do adhere to my original ideas of what works for me, I suggest adoption because I gave a son up for adoption in 1969, and most of the oldtimers know the story of how all that played out. <p>As for believing husbands or blaming the OW, it doesn't matter much what you think or feel about it as you don't have all the information and therefore cannot make a sound judgment on it because you don't have all the facts, as usual. Who cares? Neither of you know what has happened or what has been said or done in our homes relating to holding our husbands responsible for what they did. You have no idea. You obviously haven't spent much time reading these posts when we are angry and hurt and screaming about our WS's. All you can see is when we are pissed at the OW. Get used to it...it's gonna happen here because this is the place where it is safe to vent these things whether you want to hear them or not.<p>The OC is not our child anyway and as far as taking responsibility for the OC, most are financially doing just that. Just because we don't want contact with OC doesn't mean any of us "hate" the OC...it just means that contact doesn't work well for us. So stop saying that.
And, it IS all about us. Our feelings should come before anyone elses. Because the spouse and the marriage come first. At least I am honest about MY selfishness! It IS MY husband, MY marriage, MY life, MY pocketbook, MY family, MY history, MY memories and MY life that has been altered forever. It is not up to the BS to worry about OC, unless for some reason the relationship has worked out between BS and OP and they are reasonable and willing to work harmoniously with the BS and WS. It's not our kid. It is the OW's kid. So stop trying to make us mewl and fawn all over a child that represents the destruction of all we hold dear. It doesn't mean we "hate" it...we just want to move ahead and put the ugly past behind us. If the OW chooses to keep the kid, then she will have to field the questions later about why no dad.<p>The bio dad of the OC is no more a deat beat dad than a guy who is a sperm donor at the fertility clinic. The women who go to the clinic to get a child to raise alone is making the decision to raise a child by herself just as any OW is who keeps a child borne out of an affair with a MM. When an OW keeps a child borne of an affair with a MM, she is in essence, making a decision to raise that child alone because the MM already has a wife and family he loves and is loyal to. Just because he screwed you doesn't mean he isn't loyal to his family when the chips are down.<p>As long as any OW decides to keep a child that she had by a MM, she must know somewhere deep on her core that it is so incredibly ludicrous to expect the MM to give up his wife, his family, his way of life, his friends, his history with his wife, the memories, the deep bond you can't even imagine, regardless of his fall from grace with you. So what? Just because he screwed around with someone else certainly doesn't mean he doesn't love his wife. Men are notorious infidels and have been from the beginning of time in every culture and in every race. Only society and religion has quelled some of these instincts through civilization and religion, incorporating marriage vows that are sadly broken. But just because a husband has sex with someone else doesn't mean that he isn't in love with and is not committed to his wife. If you beleive that, then you are living under a rock.<p>OW's are constantly coming here to justify their actions and rationalize their errors, they come here trying to shame us into feeling responsible for their OC! Can you beleive it? As if it is our problem? They tell us how "hateful" we are because they don't like what we say or what we say makes them feel...what? Guilty? Whatever.<p>Keep in mind this is MARRIAGE BUILDERS and that is why we are here...to rebuild our marraiges and if it means to find some forgiveness and some compassion towards our husbands after a couple years of reaming them and being angry and hurt, then let the forgiveness begin. We instinctively know if the remorse is sincere or if they are just bad little boys who got caught as you suggest...you minimize us, demean us and our marraiges by constantly suggesting that this is their ONLY reason for recommitting themselves to us, by showing profound regret and shame, by choosing to put the marraige where it should be...Number 1 Priority...and honoring their spouses by agreeing to no contact for the good of everyone involved...and why shouldn't the wife's feelings on no contact be honored first and foremost above that of an OC? For ANY reason?<p>I shake my head in disbelief when I read these self righteous OW's coming here spouting how "they" don't have any respect for a WS who refuses contact. Someone who garners so little respect themselves doesn't inspire me to worry whether or not they respect my husband.<p>I am so not interested in combative OW's coming here, to a site that is not for them, telling us off and being so judgmental.<p>Catnip =^^=<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

gem,
I guess if we were in high school, this would be funny, however I dont know what age you are, my guess is very young. I wish you the best , with your future and your marriage.

you cant argue with ignorance, I have learned. <p> so god be with you and I respect your feelings on this and hear them well. People dont have to agree with one another to respect one another. If we all agreed, life would be pretty boring now wouldnt it.

CATNIP,
You are right, I am new to this site. I have visited for a year, but finally posted only this past month. I have been a betrayed spouse more times than I want to count. I am now in the opposite postition. I dont like it, but I am here, I dont understand why we cant as adults, just cant talk and not argue, frankly it makes no sense. every one has an opinion, big deal, it doesnt make one right from the other.
I have a good relationship with my daughters father and learning to have one with his wife. I dont see anything wrong with that. I am working on my marriage, doesnt mean I dont have an opinion and can offer it to someone who ask for advice, I can relate more to justine, so I told her what I thought. doesnt make it right, doesnt make it wrong. Makes it my opinion. thats all.
yes this is a site for fixing your marriage, but I didnt know as human beings we wouldnt want to help people in need.
I dont know all you have been through with your husbands just as you have no clue where i Have been and where my future is.
dont take it all so personal.

I love the people on this forum and welcome the diversity, but get so weary of all the finger pointing. I cannot see where anyone is totally blameless. I&#8217;m a great believer in cause and effect. Things don&#8217;t &#8220;just happen&#8221;. If you&#8217;re bold enough to do the crime, then you better be prepared to do the time. I may catch some flack for that, and that&#8217;s okay. Think about it: if you know what the consequence of a certain action can be, and chose the action anyway, how strong is your defense? I also like the saying &#8220;ignorance of the law is no excuse&#8221; only, in most of these cases, it&#8217;s not ignorance. It&#8217;s negligence to acknowledge the obvious. The involved parties were negligent in protecting themselves and those around them. <p>WE are the ones who empower. WE have free will. WE have the ability to think for ourselves and choose. WE know that our actions will have an impact on others, be it positive or negative. WE have an obligation to own our actions, both OW and MM alike. <p>It frustrates me to see so much bickering. We, meaning ALL of us, have a tendency to think and act as if opposing opinions/beliefs are errant and/or preposterous. Disagreements can be constructive and enlightening&#8230;.if you let them be. However, if you let the differing opinions become the force driving the war, we all lose. Don&#8217;t reduce yourself to the level of name-calling, disrespectful sarcasm, and snide remarks.<p>I know that when I first came here, I needed perspective. I wanted advice custom made for me, based on who I knew myself to be. It was an unreasonable expectation. You didn&#8217;t know me or what stuff I was made of. I was just one of &#8220;those&#8221; OW. It took time and a willingness to listen and understand my unique situation before some of you were able to accept me and my thoughts. I was hurting and I didn&#8217;t know where to turn. I was confused and was asking for help in understanding "why" and "how". Being who I am, I feel for Justine and the position she&#8217;s in. I was there not that long ago. I remember very clearly how much I hurt. She came here for advice. She did not start this nasty bickering. Somehow, the thread she started out of her need for assistance/direction, has been overrun by personal agendas. Has anyone bothered to notice that she has NOT posted a reply?! Any guesses on why that might be?<p>Sheesh, guys, I know the red-carpet doesn&#8217;t get rolled out for the OW, but this was Justine&#8217;s party (so to speak). If she doesn&#8217;t wish to respond, for whatever reason, then why are we all still here? Let&#8217;s pack it up and go home.<p>OB1

i hope i didnt read the posts wrong, but i feel that you dont want OW to post here? where do i go then, my husband posts here and i do need help also, that is why i mainly read than actually post, i am looking for any insight or help i can get. i know most of you probably could care less about the horrific pain i have put upon myself and pops--but it has become almost unbearable for me. today has been especially hard, everything has made me sad and i cant seem to stop crying. i am so scared, so depressed all the time, i love pops so much--i want our relationship back and i dont know if that is possible after all the damage i have inflicted on it. as for the OM in my situation, he never wanted an abortion or adoption--he did not want to influence me in any of the choices---that doesnt matter now--and yes we all have situations that only we know and have experienced, and why we made the decisions we made only our hearts know truly. i would be so happy if he chooses not to be a part of my daughters life and just paid his cs, he hasnt had any contact with me since june 2001 so far. it would make our lives a little less stressed. i feel for all parties in these situations--because of the extreme pain i am going through, i can only imagine it is a drop in the bucket of what pops and you all are feeling. i pray that God will hear my prayers and lead me to the right path of healing our marriage--please be a little understanding of all situations, please

Well Said FH.<p>I do hope you can find some peace in all of this.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by catnip:
<strong>The bio dad of the OC is no more a deat beat dad than a guy who is a sperm donor at the fertility clinic. The women who go to the clinic to get a child to raise alone is making the decision to raise a child by herself just as any OW is who keeps a child borne out of an affair with a MM. When an OW keeps a child borne of an affair with a MM, she is in essence, making a decision to raise that child alone because the MM already has a wife and family he loves and is loyal to. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>You always say the neatest things, and this is the BEST THING YOU HAVE EVER WRITTEN!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>I like to read over here sometimes, and care about all of you. I wasn't able to save my marriage, and if we had an OC in our situation, we don't know it yet (it's been about 15 years, so I expect my ex to get a knock on the door in about three years [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] since one of the women wrote that the baby in her tummy was "Little David" and her H's name was Jack or something)...<p>But anyway, I thought this point was EXCELLENT!

I know, I said I was going to stay away, but with the turn this thread has taken, I felt the need to speak up here. I believe it may have been myself who inadvertantly started this turn! I am not pointing fingers, agreeing with any one person here, or judging, but when you read things like "didn't want the child" in regards to adoption, that tends to hit a very sore spot for myself! See, I did want the baby that I gave up for adoption! I would have loved to have kept her, but knew that I could not give her the life she deserved! I have seen many come to these boards, and when the word "adoption" appears, they start saying that "How could a woman do that unless she didn't want the child?!?!" That is why I reacted the way I did in the previous posts from myself. <p>Justine is at the point that she can make that decission! If she wants, she can give this little boy a life with 2 parents who love him and eachother! She can also possibly find another man who is willing to raise this little boy as his own! Whatever she decides, she needs to see that from the history she has given us about MM, she will only get support if it is court ordered, and then it will just be monitarily(sp). If she is looking for this MM to be a Daddy to her S, well, again, from the history, I just don't see it happening, and that can/will lead up to a very rough childhood for this little boy! She, herself, said that she can't raise this little boy on her own, and will go after CS. She will then be forcing herself and her S into MM's life for the next 18-20 yrs. She needs to be prepared for the response she will get if she chooses that route.<p>FH,<p>I do believe that you are not considered the OW, at least not in the sense that you think you are. I, myself, do consider myself the xOW, but have chosen a different route, for different reasons. You are here to gain support in the rebuilding of your M to Pops! You have always been forthright and honest with us, and have taken our advice when you've asked for it! PLEASE!!!!!!!!! Don't leave, because I feel this is where you need to be! I have often wondered how you are doing, but weren't sure if you even read here anymore, as I had only seen a few posts from you. <p>Let's, EVERYONE, just take a couple deep breaths, relax, and read what people are saying, not what we think they are saying.<p>Just my $0.02<p>Tigger

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>only imagine it is a drop in the bucket of what pops and you all are feeling. i pray that God will hear my prayers and lead me to the right path of healing our marriage--please be a little understanding of all situations, please <hr></blockquote>
God will hear your prayers fh....<p>As far as OB1....you are a saint of an OW and I have repeatedly told you I wish you were our OW!!!<p>Catnip my dear friend in recovery....<p>THANKYOU!!<p>love
Debi

I too have been horrified at the recent trend of 50 page threads full of accusations and recriminations. <p>I fully understand what Catnip is reacting to. There has been one poster in particular who seems to delight in reminding the betrayed spouses on this board that our spouses are lying to us about their feelings for us, lying about the feelings they had for the OW, and continually paint a vivid picture of our spouses having sex with the other person.<p>Every situation is different and every person is different. Superimposing one experience of one OW over the entire MB community does not help anyone. <p>I don't think it really matters what position you are in - BS, OW, whatever. As Catnip has said, what matters is that this is MARRIAGE BUILDERS. What every one of us should have in common is that we are sorry for the situation that happened - regardless of whether we created it or we are the victim -- and that we are trying to work towards a better solution and a better relationship.<p>Full House - you certainly fit that description. From what you have written above, I believe that you are on the right track and with God's help you will find the resolution you are looking for.<p>I don't care if OWs post on this board. But if they do, they should be working towards a goal, not just disrespecting others. And they should stop trying to glamorize and justify a life composed of stolen moments with a man who is legally committed to another woman. Our spouses made major mistakes -- we know that and we have chosen to work through the problems. But, the fact that our spouses are right beside us speaks volumes. <p>Ladies and gentlemen, we have all been victimized in some way -- must we now argue about who is the most victimized among us? I'd rather help each other. <p>And, by the way, the biggest loser on this thread is Justine, who was a victim of a hijacking.<p>Can we now have a hug for our big and lovable dysfunctional family?<p>love,
heavenly
[img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: heavenlybody26 ]<p>[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: heavenlybody26 ]</p>

Re-reading my posts...harsh...very harsh. My posts have gotten worse rather than better. And it appears I have become a reactionary.<p>Apparantly I am doing just the thing I am accusing others of doing.<p>Anger management, Anyone?<p>Catnip =^^=<p>Thank you, Heavenly, for translating precisely what I wanted to get across in a much more lucid spin. I just don't know what the hell is wrong with me lately.<p>[ April 19, 2002: Message edited by: catnip ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by full house:
<strong>...please be a little understanding of all situations, please</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah fh, I agree...